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Re: [orthodox-synod] Peter Ustinov

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  • Fr. Basil Grisel
    It was posted earlier, Metropolitan Vitaly and Peter Usitnov are not related at all. ... From: William Zurmuehl To:
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 2, 2004
      It was posted earlier, Metropolitan Vitaly and Peter Usitnov are not related at all.
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: William Zurmuehl<mailto:sdnjosephz@...>
      To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com<mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 10:17 AM
      Subject: RE: [orthodox-synod] Peter Ustinov


      I heard that through the grapevine myself a time or two

      Subdeacon Joseph Zurmuehl
      Joy of all Who Sorrow Orthodox Church
      Russian Orthodox Church Abroad





      >From: "tvrfcc" <ccalin@...<mailto:ccalin@...>>
      >Reply-To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com<mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
      >To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com<mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
      >Subject: [orthodox-synod] Peter Ustinov
      >Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 05:52:04 -0000
      >
      >I have been told that Peter Ustinov is related to the retired
      >Metropolitan. Any truth to that? Thanks.
      >
      >Igumen Christopher
      >NYC
      >
      >Sir Peter Ustinov
      >1921-2004
      >
      >
      >

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    • Elias Gorsky
      Even though Father Alexei Duncan remembers Vladika Vitaly saying it was just a rumor, I remember the opposite, that Metropolitan Vitaly said that he WAS
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 3, 2004
        Even though Father Alexei Duncan remembers Vladika Vitaly saying it was just
        a rumor, I remember the opposite, that Metropolitan Vitaly said that he WAS
        related to him, a distant cousin. But since I am older, my memory is
        probably suspect, so I checked with my matushka and she remembers the same
        (but she's getting on in years, too; and now she is a grandmother, to boot,
        so go figure).

        Now we will hear more memoirs on this important subject ... [;-))>>

        Greetings to everyone on the conclusion of the Holy Quadecimacy. (can
        someone suggest a better translation of "Chetyredesyatnitsa"?)

        With love in Christ,
        p.Ilya

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Fr. John R. Shaw [mailto:vrevjrs@...]
        Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 7:42 AM
        To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Fw: Re: [orthodox-synod] Peter Ustinov


        Regarding:

        > It was posted earlier, Metropolitan Vitaly and Peter Usitnov are not
        related at all.

        JRS: They were certainly *related* -- the question is merely how close
        the relationship was!

        In Christ
        Fr. John R. Shaw




        --
        CoreComm Webmail.
        http://home.core.com

        ----------


        Regarding:

        > It was posted earlier, Metropolitan Vitaly and Peter Usitnov are not
        related at all.

        JRS: They were certainly *related* -- the question is merely how close
        the relationship was.

        In Christ
        Fr. John R. Shaw




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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      • antiquariu@aol.com
        In a message dated 4/3/2004 11:39:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, elias.gorsky@egcon.com writes: Even though Father Alexei Duncan remembers Vladika Vitaly saying
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 3, 2004
          In a message dated 4/3/2004 11:39:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
          elias.gorsky@... writes:
          Even though Father Alexei Duncan remembers Vladika Vitaly saying it was just
          a rumor, I remember the opposite, that Metropolitan Vitaly said that he WAS
          related to him, a distant cousin.
          Batushki and others, bless!

          I'm always amused by the need of the diaspora Orthodox to get in with the "me
          too" validations, so as to show that we Orthodox are cool, too. Sir Peter
          was a marginally practising Lutheran and exile British subject, born in England
          as the son of a German father of Russian ancestry and a French mother of
          Russian ancestry. His grandfather had been a Tsarist officer who was exiled for
          refusing to swear the loyalty oath to the Orthodox Church under Alexander III,
          who had instituted such a requirement in an effort to Russify the increasingly
          cosmopolitan (and German/Finnish and French-speaking) elites in the military
          and nobility after 150 years of relatively secular post-Petrine Russia. He
          moved to Wuerttemberg with his German wife. Wuerttemberg was a liberal Germanic
          principality, the princess of which, Olga von Hohenlohe, was a daughter of the
          Tsar who received many refugees from her autocratic father.

          The Ustinovs may have been related, but it was extremely distant, and
          certainly not something that Sir Peter ever made any comments on. He was extremely
          negative to the ritualism of Orthodoxy as well as other liturgical faiths,
          refering to it has buffoonery on more than one occasion.

          And it's not exactly an uncommon name. Metropolitan Vitaly's father served
          in the Caucasus and the Black Sea Fleet, Sir Peter's grandfather was an army
          officer.

          Cheers,

          Vova Hindrichs


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Wally Wally
          Peter Ustinov was Vladika Vitaly`s second cousin. Vladika was my spiritual father for over 30 years. michael nikitin wrote:Yes, I
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 3, 2004
            Peter Ustinov was Vladika Vitaly`s second cousin. Vladika was my spiritual father for over 30 years.

            michael nikitin <nikitinmike@...> wrote:Yes, I believe Peter Ustinov is Metr.Vitaly's half-brother.

            Metr.Vitaly is head of ROCOR(V) or ROCIE.

            www.russianorthodoxchurchinexile.com

            Michael N

            tvrfcc <ccalin@...> wrote:
            I have been told that Peter Ustinov is related to the retired
            Metropolitan. Any truth to that? Thanks.

            Igumen Christopher
            NYC

            Sir Peter Ustinov
            1921-2004





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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Fr. John R. Shaw
            ... the me ... JRS: Nevertheless, we are all related in any case. Those of us who accept the Biblical account of Adam and Eve as literal know this, and there
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 3, 2004
              Vova Hindrichs wrote:

              > I'm always amused by the need of the diaspora Orthodox to get in with
              the "me
              > too" validations, so as to show that we Orthodox are cool, too.

              JRS: Nevertheless, we are all related in any case.

              Those of us who accept the Biblical account of Adam and Eve as literal
              know this, and there are references to the fact in the Orthodox funeral
              service.

              Those, on the other hand, who believe in Darwinism and evolution also
              have to believe the same thing. For a new species to "evolve", it would
              ultimately have to go back to one source, one "gene pool", and one
              parentage.

              Not everyone who has the same surname is closely related, but we are
              all related in the long run. And most of those with a relatively
              uncommon last name, could trace it back to one ancestor.

              Thus, as George Bernard Shaw once quipped, "The Shaws, like most of the
              Irish, came from Yorkshire".

              > Sir Peter
              > was ... born in England
              > as the son of a German father of Russian ancestry and a French mother
              of
              > Russian ancestry.

              JRS: In his own words, he was "conceived in St. Petersburg, born in
              London and baptized in Germany".

              Vl. Vitaly was both conceived and born in St. Petersburg, about a
              decade earlier.

              > His grandfather had been a Tsarist officer who was exiled for
              > refusing to swear the loyalty oath to the Orthodox Church under
              Alexander III...

              JRS: According to Sir Peter, that is not exactly how it was.

              His grandfather was raised in the Orthodox Church, but apostasized and
              turned Protestant, which was what led to his punishment by exile.

              > The Ustinovs may have been related, but it was extremely distant, and
              > certainly not something that Sir Peter ever made any comments on.

              JRS: In one of his writings, which I haven't time to look up now, he
              did mention having a relative who was a Russian Orthodox bishop, and
              whom he found exasperating.

              He described a conversation in which the unnamed bishop told him, "We
              are gaining more converts all the time, mostly at the expense of the
              Roman Catholics".

              That remark struck Sir Peter as utterly narrow and fanatical!

              > He was extremely
              > negative to the ritualism of Orthodoxy as well as other liturgical
              faiths,
              > refering to it has buffoonery on more than one occasion.

              JRS: Yes, that sounds like him.

              However, he also had a curious kind of hate/love relationship with the
              Orthodox Church, perhaps a little along the lines of the late Leo N.
              Tolstoy's attitude.

              > And it's not exactly an uncommon name. Metropolitan Vitaly's father
              served
              > in the Caucasus and the Black Sea Fleet, Sir Peter's grandfather was
              an army
              > officer.

              JRS: The name is not all that common.

              It is derived from "Iustin" (Justin), which was transformed
              into "Ustin" by dropping the initial "I" in the same way as "Iulian"
              (Julian) became "Ulyan", and gave rise to the surname "Ulyanov".

              In Christ
              Fr. John R. Shaw
            • Fr. Alexis Duncan
              You must not be that much older...after all, you came up with quadecimacy! ... From: Elias Gorsky [mailto:elias.gorsky@egcon.com] Sent: Saturday, April 03,
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 3, 2004
                You must not be that much older...after all, you came up with
                "quadecimacy!"
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Elias Gorsky [mailto:elias.gorsky@...]
                Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 11:31 AM
                To: 'orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com'
                Subject: RE: Re: [orthodox-synod] Peter Ustinov


                Even though Father Alexei Duncan remembers Vladika Vitaly
                saying it was just
                a rumor, I remember the opposite, that Metropolitan Vitaly said
                that he WAS
                related to him, a distant cousin. But since I am older, my
                memory is
                probably suspect, so I checked with my matushka and she
                remembers the same
                (but she's getting on in years, too; and now she is a
                grandmother, to boot,
                so go figure).


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • antiquariu@aol.com
                In a message dated 4/3/2004 3:55:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, vrevjrs@execpc.com writes: JRS: In his own words, he was conceived in St. Petersburg, born in
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 3, 2004
                  In a message dated 4/3/2004 3:55:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                  vrevjrs@... writes:
                  JRS: In his own words, he was "conceived in St. Petersburg, born in
                  London and baptized in Germany".
                  Father bless!

                  I think Sir Peter was using a figure of speech here to laud his Russian
                  roots. In an exhaustive personal interview with Der Spiegel, he provides his
                  genealogy; the Wurttemberg connection is pretty explicit, and he specifically
                  states that the period of exile -- 40 years -- for his grandfather is what soured
                  the family on Imperial Russia.

                  But I do agree with your comment that everyone is related, and that holds
                  true whether you subscribe to Adam and Eve or mitochondrial evidence, and I
                  accept both. My "me too" comment was not directed at you, Father, since you are
                  one of the most reasonable voices in this medium and I respect what you have to
                  say practically all of the time. Rather, it was directed at the rash of
                  commentary that comes up when almost anyone with a Slavic surname pops up in the
                  obits or the People section.

                  Father bless, and best wishes for the impending Resurrection!

                  Vova Hindrichs


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Elias Gorsky
                  It s that dang English language; can t say anything right in it! ... From: Fr. Alexis Duncan [mailto:7848@adelphia.net] Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 4:23 PM
                  Message 8 of 12 , Apr 3, 2004
                    It's that dang English language; can't say anything right in it!

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Fr. Alexis Duncan [mailto:7848@...]
                    Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 4:23 PM
                    To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: Re: [orthodox-synod] Peter Ustinov

                    You must not be that much older...after all, you came up with
                    "quadecimacy!"
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Elias Gorsky [mailto:elias.gorsky@...]
                    Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 11:31 AM
                    To: 'orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com'
                    Subject: RE: Re: [orthodox-synod] Peter Ustinov


                    Even though Father Alexei Duncan remembers Vladika Vitaly
                    saying it was just
                    a rumor, I remember the opposite, that Metropolitan Vitaly said
                    that he WAS
                    related to him, a distant cousin. But since I am older, my
                    memory is
                    probably suspect, so I checked with my matushka and she
                    remembers the same
                    (but she's getting on in years, too; and now she is a
                    grandmother, to boot,
                    so go figure).


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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