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RE: [orthodox-synod] Peter Ustinov

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  • William Zurmuehl
    I heard that through the grapevine myself a time or two Subdeacon Joseph Zurmuehl Joy of all Who Sorrow Orthodox Church Russian Orthodox Church Abroad ...
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 2, 2004
      I heard that through the grapevine myself a time or two

      Subdeacon Joseph Zurmuehl
      Joy of all Who Sorrow Orthodox Church
      Russian Orthodox Church Abroad





      >From: "tvrfcc" <ccalin@...>
      >Reply-To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
      >To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: [orthodox-synod] Peter Ustinov
      >Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 05:52:04 -0000
      >
      >I have been told that Peter Ustinov is related to the retired
      >Metropolitan. Any truth to that? Thanks.
      >
      >Igumen Christopher
      >NYC
      >
      >Sir Peter Ustinov
      >1921-2004
      >
      >
      >

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    • michael nikitin
      Yes, I believe Peter Ustinov is Metr.Vitaly s half-brother. Metr.Vitaly is head of ROCOR(V) or ROCIE. www.russianorthodoxchurchinexile.com Michael N tvrfcc
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 2, 2004
        Yes, I believe Peter Ustinov is Metr.Vitaly's half-brother.

        Metr.Vitaly is head of ROCOR(V) or ROCIE.

        www.russianorthodoxchurchinexile.com

        Michael N

        tvrfcc <ccalin@...> wrote:
        I have been told that Peter Ustinov is related to the retired
        Metropolitan. Any truth to that? Thanks.

        Igumen Christopher
        NYC

        Sir Peter Ustinov
        1921-2004





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      • Fr. Basil Grisel
        It was posted earlier, Metropolitan Vitaly and Peter Usitnov are not related at all. ... From: William Zurmuehl To:
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 2, 2004
          It was posted earlier, Metropolitan Vitaly and Peter Usitnov are not related at all.
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: William Zurmuehl<mailto:sdnjosephz@...>
          To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com<mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 10:17 AM
          Subject: RE: [orthodox-synod] Peter Ustinov


          I heard that through the grapevine myself a time or two

          Subdeacon Joseph Zurmuehl
          Joy of all Who Sorrow Orthodox Church
          Russian Orthodox Church Abroad





          >From: "tvrfcc" <ccalin@...<mailto:ccalin@...>>
          >Reply-To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com<mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
          >To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com<mailto:orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
          >Subject: [orthodox-synod] Peter Ustinov
          >Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 05:52:04 -0000
          >
          >I have been told that Peter Ustinov is related to the retired
          >Metropolitan. Any truth to that? Thanks.
          >
          >Igumen Christopher
          >NYC
          >
          >Sir Peter Ustinov
          >1921-2004
          >
          >
          >

          _________________________________________________________________
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        • Elias Gorsky
          Even though Father Alexei Duncan remembers Vladika Vitaly saying it was just a rumor, I remember the opposite, that Metropolitan Vitaly said that he WAS
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 3, 2004
            Even though Father Alexei Duncan remembers Vladika Vitaly saying it was just
            a rumor, I remember the opposite, that Metropolitan Vitaly said that he WAS
            related to him, a distant cousin. But since I am older, my memory is
            probably suspect, so I checked with my matushka and she remembers the same
            (but she's getting on in years, too; and now she is a grandmother, to boot,
            so go figure).

            Now we will hear more memoirs on this important subject ... [;-))>>

            Greetings to everyone on the conclusion of the Holy Quadecimacy. (can
            someone suggest a better translation of "Chetyredesyatnitsa"?)

            With love in Christ,
            p.Ilya

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Fr. John R. Shaw [mailto:vrevjrs@...]
            Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 7:42 AM
            To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Fw: Re: [orthodox-synod] Peter Ustinov


            Regarding:

            > It was posted earlier, Metropolitan Vitaly and Peter Usitnov are not
            related at all.

            JRS: They were certainly *related* -- the question is merely how close
            the relationship was!

            In Christ
            Fr. John R. Shaw




            --
            CoreComm Webmail.
            http://home.core.com

            ----------


            Regarding:

            > It was posted earlier, Metropolitan Vitaly and Peter Usitnov are not
            related at all.

            JRS: They were certainly *related* -- the question is merely how close
            the relationship was.

            In Christ
            Fr. John R. Shaw




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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          • antiquariu@aol.com
            In a message dated 4/3/2004 11:39:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, elias.gorsky@egcon.com writes: Even though Father Alexei Duncan remembers Vladika Vitaly saying
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 3, 2004
              In a message dated 4/3/2004 11:39:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
              elias.gorsky@... writes:
              Even though Father Alexei Duncan remembers Vladika Vitaly saying it was just
              a rumor, I remember the opposite, that Metropolitan Vitaly said that he WAS
              related to him, a distant cousin.
              Batushki and others, bless!

              I'm always amused by the need of the diaspora Orthodox to get in with the "me
              too" validations, so as to show that we Orthodox are cool, too. Sir Peter
              was a marginally practising Lutheran and exile British subject, born in England
              as the son of a German father of Russian ancestry and a French mother of
              Russian ancestry. His grandfather had been a Tsarist officer who was exiled for
              refusing to swear the loyalty oath to the Orthodox Church under Alexander III,
              who had instituted such a requirement in an effort to Russify the increasingly
              cosmopolitan (and German/Finnish and French-speaking) elites in the military
              and nobility after 150 years of relatively secular post-Petrine Russia. He
              moved to Wuerttemberg with his German wife. Wuerttemberg was a liberal Germanic
              principality, the princess of which, Olga von Hohenlohe, was a daughter of the
              Tsar who received many refugees from her autocratic father.

              The Ustinovs may have been related, but it was extremely distant, and
              certainly not something that Sir Peter ever made any comments on. He was extremely
              negative to the ritualism of Orthodoxy as well as other liturgical faiths,
              refering to it has buffoonery on more than one occasion.

              And it's not exactly an uncommon name. Metropolitan Vitaly's father served
              in the Caucasus and the Black Sea Fleet, Sir Peter's grandfather was an army
              officer.

              Cheers,

              Vova Hindrichs


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Wally Wally
              Peter Ustinov was Vladika Vitaly`s second cousin. Vladika was my spiritual father for over 30 years. michael nikitin wrote:Yes, I
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 3, 2004
                Peter Ustinov was Vladika Vitaly`s second cousin. Vladika was my spiritual father for over 30 years.

                michael nikitin <nikitinmike@...> wrote:Yes, I believe Peter Ustinov is Metr.Vitaly's half-brother.

                Metr.Vitaly is head of ROCOR(V) or ROCIE.

                www.russianorthodoxchurchinexile.com

                Michael N

                tvrfcc <ccalin@...> wrote:
                I have been told that Peter Ustinov is related to the retired
                Metropolitan. Any truth to that? Thanks.

                Igumen Christopher
                NYC

                Sir Peter Ustinov
                1921-2004





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              • Fr. John R. Shaw
                ... the me ... JRS: Nevertheless, we are all related in any case. Those of us who accept the Biblical account of Adam and Eve as literal know this, and there
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 3, 2004
                  Vova Hindrichs wrote:

                  > I'm always amused by the need of the diaspora Orthodox to get in with
                  the "me
                  > too" validations, so as to show that we Orthodox are cool, too.

                  JRS: Nevertheless, we are all related in any case.

                  Those of us who accept the Biblical account of Adam and Eve as literal
                  know this, and there are references to the fact in the Orthodox funeral
                  service.

                  Those, on the other hand, who believe in Darwinism and evolution also
                  have to believe the same thing. For a new species to "evolve", it would
                  ultimately have to go back to one source, one "gene pool", and one
                  parentage.

                  Not everyone who has the same surname is closely related, but we are
                  all related in the long run. And most of those with a relatively
                  uncommon last name, could trace it back to one ancestor.

                  Thus, as George Bernard Shaw once quipped, "The Shaws, like most of the
                  Irish, came from Yorkshire".

                  > Sir Peter
                  > was ... born in England
                  > as the son of a German father of Russian ancestry and a French mother
                  of
                  > Russian ancestry.

                  JRS: In his own words, he was "conceived in St. Petersburg, born in
                  London and baptized in Germany".

                  Vl. Vitaly was both conceived and born in St. Petersburg, about a
                  decade earlier.

                  > His grandfather had been a Tsarist officer who was exiled for
                  > refusing to swear the loyalty oath to the Orthodox Church under
                  Alexander III...

                  JRS: According to Sir Peter, that is not exactly how it was.

                  His grandfather was raised in the Orthodox Church, but apostasized and
                  turned Protestant, which was what led to his punishment by exile.

                  > The Ustinovs may have been related, but it was extremely distant, and
                  > certainly not something that Sir Peter ever made any comments on.

                  JRS: In one of his writings, which I haven't time to look up now, he
                  did mention having a relative who was a Russian Orthodox bishop, and
                  whom he found exasperating.

                  He described a conversation in which the unnamed bishop told him, "We
                  are gaining more converts all the time, mostly at the expense of the
                  Roman Catholics".

                  That remark struck Sir Peter as utterly narrow and fanatical!

                  > He was extremely
                  > negative to the ritualism of Orthodoxy as well as other liturgical
                  faiths,
                  > refering to it has buffoonery on more than one occasion.

                  JRS: Yes, that sounds like him.

                  However, he also had a curious kind of hate/love relationship with the
                  Orthodox Church, perhaps a little along the lines of the late Leo N.
                  Tolstoy's attitude.

                  > And it's not exactly an uncommon name. Metropolitan Vitaly's father
                  served
                  > in the Caucasus and the Black Sea Fleet, Sir Peter's grandfather was
                  an army
                  > officer.

                  JRS: The name is not all that common.

                  It is derived from "Iustin" (Justin), which was transformed
                  into "Ustin" by dropping the initial "I" in the same way as "Iulian"
                  (Julian) became "Ulyan", and gave rise to the surname "Ulyanov".

                  In Christ
                  Fr. John R. Shaw
                • Fr. Alexis Duncan
                  You must not be that much older...after all, you came up with quadecimacy! ... From: Elias Gorsky [mailto:elias.gorsky@egcon.com] Sent: Saturday, April 03,
                  Message 8 of 12 , Apr 3, 2004
                    You must not be that much older...after all, you came up with
                    "quadecimacy!"
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Elias Gorsky [mailto:elias.gorsky@...]
                    Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 11:31 AM
                    To: 'orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com'
                    Subject: RE: Re: [orthodox-synod] Peter Ustinov


                    Even though Father Alexei Duncan remembers Vladika Vitaly
                    saying it was just
                    a rumor, I remember the opposite, that Metropolitan Vitaly said
                    that he WAS
                    related to him, a distant cousin. But since I am older, my
                    memory is
                    probably suspect, so I checked with my matushka and she
                    remembers the same
                    (but she's getting on in years, too; and now she is a
                    grandmother, to boot,
                    so go figure).


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • antiquariu@aol.com
                    In a message dated 4/3/2004 3:55:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, vrevjrs@execpc.com writes: JRS: In his own words, he was conceived in St. Petersburg, born in
                    Message 9 of 12 , Apr 3, 2004
                      In a message dated 4/3/2004 3:55:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                      vrevjrs@... writes:
                      JRS: In his own words, he was "conceived in St. Petersburg, born in
                      London and baptized in Germany".
                      Father bless!

                      I think Sir Peter was using a figure of speech here to laud his Russian
                      roots. In an exhaustive personal interview with Der Spiegel, he provides his
                      genealogy; the Wurttemberg connection is pretty explicit, and he specifically
                      states that the period of exile -- 40 years -- for his grandfather is what soured
                      the family on Imperial Russia.

                      But I do agree with your comment that everyone is related, and that holds
                      true whether you subscribe to Adam and Eve or mitochondrial evidence, and I
                      accept both. My "me too" comment was not directed at you, Father, since you are
                      one of the most reasonable voices in this medium and I respect what you have to
                      say practically all of the time. Rather, it was directed at the rash of
                      commentary that comes up when almost anyone with a Slavic surname pops up in the
                      obits or the People section.

                      Father bless, and best wishes for the impending Resurrection!

                      Vova Hindrichs


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Elias Gorsky
                      It s that dang English language; can t say anything right in it! ... From: Fr. Alexis Duncan [mailto:7848@adelphia.net] Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 4:23 PM
                      Message 10 of 12 , Apr 3, 2004
                        It's that dang English language; can't say anything right in it!

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Fr. Alexis Duncan [mailto:7848@...]
                        Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 4:23 PM
                        To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: Re: [orthodox-synod] Peter Ustinov

                        You must not be that much older...after all, you came up with
                        "quadecimacy!"
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Elias Gorsky [mailto:elias.gorsky@...]
                        Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 11:31 AM
                        To: 'orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com'
                        Subject: RE: Re: [orthodox-synod] Peter Ustinov


                        Even though Father Alexei Duncan remembers Vladika Vitaly
                        saying it was just
                        a rumor, I remember the opposite, that Metropolitan Vitaly said
                        that he WAS
                        related to him, a distant cousin. But since I am older, my
                        memory is
                        probably suspect, so I checked with my matushka and she
                        remembers the same
                        (but she's getting on in years, too; and now she is a
                        grandmother, to boot,
                        so go figure).


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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