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Re: [orthodox-synod] Congratulations to Putin

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  • for4z@aol.com
    It seems a fundamental goal of Orthodox Christianity is being overlooked in this discussion. Is it not our goal to spread the Word to ALL NATIONS and ALL
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 1, 2004
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      It seems a fundamental goal of Orthodox Christianity is being overlooked in
      this discussion. Is it not our goal to spread the Word to ALL NATIONS and ALL
      PEOPLES? What does RUSSIAN in Russian Orthodox Church really mean? I don't
      think it means the political boundaries of RUSSIA (those have certainly changed
      over the years since St. Vladimir and, undoudtedly, will change in the
      future). I don't think it means ethnic Russians (would it not be absurd to ask
      non-Russian converts to pretend to be ethnically Russian - although readers of
      this list may have seen such suggestions over the years). Does it not seem
      appropriate that RUSSIAN in Russian Orthodox Church might best describe the lineage
      and heritage of our Church, not necessarily its political or ethnic future.
      It is clear from all the postings over the last few years that some of our
      leaders are striving for the ethnic and others for the political. I would like
      to hear from among our leaders who are more committed to ACCEPTING and
      RESPECTING ALL PEOPLES INTO RUSSIAN ORTHODOXY, REGARDLESS OF THEIR POLITICAL OR ETHNIC
      BACKGROUND. If we try to limit the Church to RUSSIAN politics, language, and
      customs, what business does the Church have in the Holy Land or on Mt. Athos?
      It is clear the Church saw a need and a business to be there and to be in
      other countries. Did St. Nicholas of Japan force the Japanese converts to speak
      Russian and accept Russian politics? No, he worked to translate service
      books into Japanese and ordained Japanese priests. Did St. Patriarch Tikhon try
      to annex North American lands to Russia because there might have been Russian
      Orthodox immigrants in North America? No, he was for the Orthodox in America
      having their own church in America. Do not all our services include prayer for
      the secular government of the COUNTRY IN WHICH THEY ARE LOCATED? Would not
      the polite action, therefore, be to congratulate lawful leaders in every
      country where we have a parish? In addition to political questions, there are many
      jurisdictional disputes today among the many different "Orthodox" Churches and
      dialog to lower boundaries, build brotherhood, and seek unity may certainly
      be a positive step. However, should this be a shield to promote
      ethno-political agendas? Are we seeking to build Orthodoxy or to promote Russia at the
      expense of other lands and peoples?

      Eugene Zaharov


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • VJB
      Dear Fr. Deacon, I should have probably simply ignored this, but I find this post very disturbing. I lived in Russia in the 80 s and early 90 s, and I know
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 1, 2004
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        Dear Fr. Deacon,

        I should have probably simply ignored this, but I find this post very disturbing. I lived in Russia in the 80's and early 90's, and I know that the entire nation (including Mr. Putin) went through rethinking its past and condemned the Soviet regime with all the atrocities. One must be blind not to see that. The most vivid proof of this is the fact that the USSR has collapsed and the KPSS was banned as a political organization (do not confuse with KPRF and other similar contemporary political groups).

        I read this post as a sign of disrespect for the Russian people and their choice coming from an confused person living in Australia. Not to mention the disrespect to the First Hierarch of a part of the Russian Church. What you (and some others) seem to miss here, Fr. Deacon, is the fact that Mr. Putin was elected by the Russian people and has the right to represent the people (many of whom are Orthodox) and the country to which many of us (in the Church Abroad) are related in one way or another.

        Sincerely,

        V. Boitchenko (Albany, New York)
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: byakimov@...
        To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 5:20 PM
        Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Congratulations to Putin


        I would have congratulated the ex KGB agent Putin if he had set up a TRUTH
        Commission or something
        similar & condemned the Soviet atrocities & the butchers (the macabre
        massacre) committed against the people of Russia & Russia Herself. Instead
        he has spread the ex-KGB tentacles across post soviet Russia & is very
        proud of the soviet times. I guess there are Chekistyi in these confused &
        troubled times who are now considered to be the good guys no matter what
        their past.... indeed we live in strashneyshiya vremena as blessed in
        memory Archbishop Averky would say.... Lord Help us ALL please.

        unworthy protodeacon Basil from Canberra





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • otto bismarc
        Obviously Holy Orthodoxy has been attacked by the communist past regimes, yet we have seen God s Grace that the Holy Orthodox Church still remains! Clearly a
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 2, 2004
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          Obviously Holy Orthodoxy has been attacked by the
          communist past regimes, yet we have seen God's Grace
          that the Holy Orthodox Church still remains! Clearly a
          monarchy rule would be the only government supported
          by Hoy Scripture yet lets face it we always owe more
          to God than Caesar, so why be angry & resentful about
          the past, not that means to forget, let us pray as
          Archbishop Averky stated.
          In Christ
          Xenos Mann



          --- byakimov@... wrote:
          > Archbishop Averky would say.... Lord Help us
          > ALL please.
          >
          > unworthy protodeacon Basil from Canberra
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > zina kochnaya <zikonaya@...> on 02/04/2004
          > 03:58:55 AM
          >
          > Please respond to orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
          > cc:
          > Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Congratulations to
          > Putin
          >
          >
          > Metr. Laurus is an American Citizen, not Russian.
          > In fact he is Ukranian.
          >
          > I am surprised at this news and your statement, Fr.
          > Alexander. I don't
          > think
          > Metr. Laurus should have sent his congratulations.
          > It is political.
          >
          > "Fr. Alexander Lebedeff" <lebedeff@...>
          > wrote:
          > Nicholas Zaharov wrote:
          >
          >
          > >Metropolitan Laurus recently wrote a letter to
          > Vladimer Putin, formally
          > >congratulating him with his re-election to the
          > office of President of
          > >Russia. This letter has been posted on our Church's
          > website.
          > >
          > >If George W. Bush is re-elected in the near future,
          > I wonder if
          > >Metropolitan Laurus will also send him a letter of
          > congratulations. I'm
          > >guessing, though, our Church will not need to do
          > this. I do not forsee the
          > >Republican Party being in a direct position to
          > reward us. I just don't
          > >know. I guess we shall soon see. Only time will
          > tell...
          >
          >
          > The cynicism expressed here seems to be misplaced.
          >
          > Metropolitan Laurus is the head of what is one of
          > the two parts of the
          > **Russian** Orthodox Church--not the American
          > Orthodox Church.
          >
          > Vladimir Putin is the President of **Russia**--not
          > America.
          >
          > President Bush heads nothing that has to do with
          > Russia.
          >
          > What is strange about the head of a Russian Church
          > congratulating the head
          > of the Russian state with his reelection? President
          > Putin congratulated
          > Metropolitan Laurus with his election as First
          > Hierarch--so what is strange
          > about reciprocal politeness?
          >
          > Did President Bush congratulate Metropolitan Laurus
          > when he was elected
          > First Hierarch?
          >
          > No.
          >
          > By the way, I am sure that Metropolitan Laurus would
          > expect Metropolitan
          > Herman, head of the Orthodox Church in **America**,
          > to congratulate
          > President Bush, if he were to be reelected.
          >
          > Nothing strange about that, either.
          >
          > Also, another point--Metropolitan Laurus has
          > established a personal
          > relationship with President Putin, who was the host
          > of a two-and a half
          > hour long private dinner at the Russian Ambassador
          > to the UN's residence in
          > New York -- only for Metropolitan Laurus and members
          > of the Synod of
          > Bishops. President Putin at that time personally
          > invited Metropolitan
          > Laurus to make an official visit to Russia--an
          > invitation that Metropolitan
          > Laurus graciously accepted.
          >
          > As far as I know, President Bush has never invited
          > Metropolitan Laurus to
          > meet with him, or hosted a private dinner for him at
          > the White House or
          > anywhere else.
          >
          > So what is strange or sinister (or self-serving)
          > about Metropolitan Laurus
          > congratulating President Putin on his reelection?
          >
          > It seems to be the most natural and polite thing to
          > do.
          >
          > Of course, Nicholas is not alone in putting a
          > cynical "spin" on this
          > innocuous letter of congratulations.
          >
          > The ROCiE mouthpiece in Russia (well, at least the
          > anti-Varnava
          > mouthpiece), V.G. Cherkasov-Georgievskii, posted the
          > Letter of
          > congratulations by Metropolitan Laurus on his
          > website, with the following
          > comment:
          >
          > "Here is a document, provocatively (!) posted on the
          > official site of the
          > Lavrites, which speaks to the fact that the head of
          > the ROCOR(L) Lavr
          > Shkurla, with all his might, is dying to participate
          > in the Patriarchal
          > Olympics in Moscow."
          >
          > Those who have even the slightest acquaintance with
          > our meek, humble, and
          > self-effacing First Hierarch, who would much rather
          > be spending his time
          > praying at all the monastic services at Jordanville,
          > and spending time in
          > solitude at his little and humble skete there, know
          > how ridiculous this
          > accusation is.
          >
          > I fear that there are some who think that in order
          > to be "Genuinely
          > Orthodox" we must eschew knowledge of expected
          > diplomatic courtesy and
          > elementary protocol --that we should be primitive,
          > crude, and rude. (Now,
          > **that's** real Orthodoxy!)
          >
          > I beg to disagree.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > >
          >
          >
          > With love in Christ,
          >
          > Prot. Alexander Lebedeff
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been
          > removed]
          >
          >
          >
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          > http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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        • achumakov2001
          Not that it matters much, but I ve seen an old photo album produced to commemorate some past anniversary of Met. Laurus (it must have been his 20 years as
          Message 4 of 12 , May 1, 2004
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            Not that it matters much, but I've seen an old photo album produced
            to commemorate some past anniversary of Met. Laurus (it must have
            been his 20 years as bishop, I forgot - I have that book at home).
            There were many congratulatory notes there, including one from the
            White House (pres. Reagan), the Governor of NY and many others. I
            would think that it is quite natural and within the "protocol" for a
            Church leader to congratulate the president and to be congratulated,
            although these congratulations rarely gain as much publicity as the
            one to Putin.
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