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Re: [orthodox-synod] Congratulations to Putin

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  • for4z@aol.com
    Metropolitan Laurus recently wrote a letter to Vladimer Putin, formally congratulating him with his re-election to the office of President of Russia. This
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 31 11:32 PM
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      Metropolitan Laurus recently wrote a letter to Vladimer Putin, formally congratulating him with his re-election to the office of President of Russia. This letter has been posted on our Church's website.

      If George W. Bush is re-elected in the near future, I wonder if Metropolitan Laurus will also send him a letter of congratulations. I'm guessing, though, our Church will not need to do this. I do not forsee the Republican Party being in a direct position to reward us. I just don't know. I guess we shall soon see. Only time will tell...

      -Nick Zaharov
    • Fr. Alexander Lebedeff
      ... The cynicism expressed here seems to be misplaced. Metropolitan Laurus is the head of what is one of the two parts of the **Russian** Orthodox Church--not
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 1, 2004
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        Nicholas Zaharov wrote:


        >Metropolitan Laurus recently wrote a letter to Vladimer Putin, formally
        >congratulating him with his re-election to the office of President of
        >Russia. This letter has been posted on our Church's website.
        >
        >If George W. Bush is re-elected in the near future, I wonder if
        >Metropolitan Laurus will also send him a letter of congratulations. I'm
        >guessing, though, our Church will not need to do this. I do not forsee the
        >Republican Party being in a direct position to reward us. I just don't
        >know. I guess we shall soon see. Only time will tell...


        The cynicism expressed here seems to be misplaced.

        Metropolitan Laurus is the head of what is one of the two parts of the
        **Russian** Orthodox Church--not the American Orthodox Church.

        Vladimir Putin is the President of **Russia**--not America.

        President Bush heads nothing that has to do with Russia.

        What is strange about the head of a Russian Church congratulating the head
        of the Russian state with his reelection? President Putin congratulated
        Metropolitan Laurus with his election as First Hierarch--so what is strange
        about reciprocal politeness?

        Did President Bush congratulate Metropolitan Laurus when he was elected
        First Hierarch?

        No.

        By the way, I am sure that Metropolitan Laurus would expect Metropolitan
        Herman, head of the Orthodox Church in **America**, to congratulate
        President Bush, if he were to be reelected.

        Nothing strange about that, either.

        Also, another point--Metropolitan Laurus has established a personal
        relationship with President Putin, who was the host of a two-and a half
        hour long private dinner at the Russian Ambassador to the UN's residence in
        New York -- only for Metropolitan Laurus and members of the Synod of
        Bishops. President Putin at that time personally invited Metropolitan
        Laurus to make an official visit to Russia--an invitation that Metropolitan
        Laurus graciously accepted.

        As far as I know, President Bush has never invited Metropolitan Laurus to
        meet with him, or hosted a private dinner for him at the White House or
        anywhere else.

        So what is strange or sinister (or self-serving) about Metropolitan Laurus
        congratulating President Putin on his reelection?

        It seems to be the most natural and polite thing to do.

        Of course, Nicholas is not alone in putting a cynical "spin" on this
        innocuous letter of congratulations.

        The ROCiE mouthpiece in Russia (well, at least the anti-Varnava
        mouthpiece), V.G. Cherkasov-Georgievskii, posted the Letter of
        congratulations by Metropolitan Laurus on his website, with the following
        comment:

        "Here is a document, provocatively (!) posted on the official site of the
        Lavrites, which speaks to the fact that the head of the ROCOR(L) Lavr
        Shkurla, with all his might, is dying to participate in the Patriarchal
        Olympics in Moscow."

        Those who have even the slightest acquaintance with our meek, humble, and
        self-effacing First Hierarch, who would much rather be spending his time
        praying at all the monastic services at Jordanville, and spending time in
        solitude at his little and humble skete there, know how ridiculous this
        accusation is.

        I fear that there are some who think that in order to be "Genuinely
        Orthodox" we must eschew knowledge of expected diplomatic courtesy and
        elementary protocol --that we should be primitive, crude, and rude. (Now,
        **that's** real Orthodoxy!)

        I beg to disagree.






        >


        With love in Christ,

        Prot. Alexander Lebedeff


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • frvboldewskul@aol.com
        On other point: The President of Russia attends Orthodox Church services more regularly than many of our ROCOR parishioners, not to mention that Putin is a
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 1, 2004
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          On other point: The President of Russia attends Orthodox Church services
          more regularly than many of our ROCOR parishioners, not to mention that Putin is
          a baptized Orthodox Christian who leads a county of millions of Orthodox.
          Priest Victor Boldewskul

          In a message dated 4/1/04 7:03:08 AM Pacific Standard Time,
          lebedeff@... writes:

          > Nicholas Zaharov wrote:
          >
          >
          > >Metropolitan Laurus recently wrote a letter to Vladimer Putin, formally
          > >congratulating him with his re-election to the office of President of
          > >Russia. This letter has been posted on our Church's website.
          > >
          > >If George W. Bush is re-elected in the near future, I wonder if
          > >Metropolitan Laurus will also send him a letter of congratulations. I'm
          > >guessing, though, our Church will not need to do this. I do not forsee the
          > >Republican Party being in a direct position to reward us. I just don't
          > >know. I guess we shall soon see. Only time will tell...
          >
          >
          > The cynicism expressed here seems to be misplaced.
          >
          > Metropolitan Laurus is the head of what is one of the two parts of the
          > **Russian** Orthodox Church--not the American Orthodox Church.
          >
          > Vladimir Putin is the President of **Russia**--not America.
          >
          > President Bush heads nothing that has to do with Russia.
          >
          > What is strange about the head of a Russian Church congratulating the head
          > of the Russian state with his reelection? President Putin congratulated
          > Metropolitan Laurus with his election as First Hierarch--so what is strange
          > about reciprocal politeness?
          >
          > Did President Bush congratulate Metropolitan Laurus when he was elected
          > First Hierarch?
          >
          > No.
          >
          > By the way, I am sure that Metropolitan Laurus would expect Metropolitan
          > Herman, head of the Orthodox Church in **America**, to congratulate
          > President Bush, if he were to be reelected.
          >
          > Nothing strange about that, either.
          >
          > Also, another point--Metropolitan Laurus has established a personal
          > relationship with President Putin, who was the host of a two-and a half
          > hour long private dinner at the Russian Ambassador to the UN's residence in
          > New York -- only for Metropolitan Laurus and members of the Synod of
          > Bishops. President Putin at that time personally invited Metropolitan
          > Laurus to make an official visit to Russia--an invitation that Metropolitan
          > Laurus graciously accepted.
          >
          > As far as I know, President Bush has never invited Metropolitan Laurus to
          > meet with him, or hosted a private dinner for him at the White House or
          > anywhere else.
          >
          > So what is strange or sinister (or self-serving) about Metropolitan Laurus
          > congratulating President Putin on his reelection?
          >
          > It seems to be the most natural and polite thing to do.
          >
          > Of course, Nicholas is not alone in putting a cynical "spin" on this
          > innocuous letter of congratulations.
          >
          > The ROCiE mouthpiece in Russia (well, at least the anti-Varnava
          > mouthpiece), V.G. Cherkasov-Georgievskii, posted the Letter of
          > congratulations by Metropolitan Laurus on his website, with the following
          > comment:
          >
          > "Here is a document, provocatively (!) posted on the official site of the
          > Lavrites, which speaks to the fact that the head of the ROCOR(L) Lavr
          > Shkurla, with all his might, is dying to participate in the Patriarchal
          > Olympics in Moscow."
          >
          > Those who have even the slightest acquaintance with our meek, humble, and
          > self-effacing First Hierarch, who would much rather be spending his time
          > praying at all the monastic services at Jordanville, and spending time in
          > solitude at his little and humble skete there, know how ridiculous this
          > accusation is.
          >
          > I fear that there are some who think that in order to be "Genuinely
          > Orthodox" we must eschew knowledge of expected diplomatic courtesy and
          > elementary protocol --that we should be primitive, crude, and rude. (Now,
          > **that's** real Orthodoxy!)
          >
          > I beg to disagree.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > >
          >
          >
          > With love in Christ,
          >
          > Prot. Alexander Lebedeff
          >
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • zina kochnaya
          Metr. Laurus is an American Citizen, not Russian. In fact he is Ukranian. I am surprised at this news and your statement, Fr. Alexander. I don t think Metr.
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 1, 2004
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            Metr. Laurus is an American Citizen, not Russian. In fact he is Ukranian.

            I am surprised at this news and your statement, Fr. Alexander. I don't think
            Metr. Laurus should have sent his congratulations. It is political.

            "Fr. Alexander Lebedeff" <lebedeff@...> wrote:
            Nicholas Zaharov wrote:


            >Metropolitan Laurus recently wrote a letter to Vladimer Putin, formally
            >congratulating him with his re-election to the office of President of
            >Russia. This letter has been posted on our Church's website.
            >
            >If George W. Bush is re-elected in the near future, I wonder if
            >Metropolitan Laurus will also send him a letter of congratulations. I'm
            >guessing, though, our Church will not need to do this. I do not forsee the
            >Republican Party being in a direct position to reward us. I just don't
            >know. I guess we shall soon see. Only time will tell...


            The cynicism expressed here seems to be misplaced.

            Metropolitan Laurus is the head of what is one of the two parts of the
            **Russian** Orthodox Church--not the American Orthodox Church.

            Vladimir Putin is the President of **Russia**--not America.

            President Bush heads nothing that has to do with Russia.

            What is strange about the head of a Russian Church congratulating the head
            of the Russian state with his reelection? President Putin congratulated
            Metropolitan Laurus with his election as First Hierarch--so what is strange
            about reciprocal politeness?

            Did President Bush congratulate Metropolitan Laurus when he was elected
            First Hierarch?

            No.

            By the way, I am sure that Metropolitan Laurus would expect Metropolitan
            Herman, head of the Orthodox Church in **America**, to congratulate
            President Bush, if he were to be reelected.

            Nothing strange about that, either.

            Also, another point--Metropolitan Laurus has established a personal
            relationship with President Putin, who was the host of a two-and a half
            hour long private dinner at the Russian Ambassador to the UN's residence in
            New York -- only for Metropolitan Laurus and members of the Synod of
            Bishops. President Putin at that time personally invited Metropolitan
            Laurus to make an official visit to Russia--an invitation that Metropolitan
            Laurus graciously accepted.

            As far as I know, President Bush has never invited Metropolitan Laurus to
            meet with him, or hosted a private dinner for him at the White House or
            anywhere else.

            So what is strange or sinister (or self-serving) about Metropolitan Laurus
            congratulating President Putin on his reelection?

            It seems to be the most natural and polite thing to do.

            Of course, Nicholas is not alone in putting a cynical "spin" on this
            innocuous letter of congratulations.

            The ROCiE mouthpiece in Russia (well, at least the anti-Varnava
            mouthpiece), V.G. Cherkasov-Georgievskii, posted the Letter of
            congratulations by Metropolitan Laurus on his website, with the following
            comment:

            "Here is a document, provocatively (!) posted on the official site of the
            Lavrites, which speaks to the fact that the head of the ROCOR(L) Lavr
            Shkurla, with all his might, is dying to participate in the Patriarchal
            Olympics in Moscow."

            Those who have even the slightest acquaintance with our meek, humble, and
            self-effacing First Hierarch, who would much rather be spending his time
            praying at all the monastic services at Jordanville, and spending time in
            solitude at his little and humble skete there, know how ridiculous this
            accusation is.

            I fear that there are some who think that in order to be "Genuinely
            Orthodox" we must eschew knowledge of expected diplomatic courtesy and
            elementary protocol --that we should be primitive, crude, and rude. (Now,
            **that's** real Orthodoxy!)

            I beg to disagree.






            >


            With love in Christ,

            Prot. Alexander Lebedeff


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • for4z@aol.com
            I was surprised by the prompt and lengthy response generated by my original posting. As all the other members of ROCOR, I am aware that we remain a part of
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 1, 2004
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              I was surprised by the prompt and lengthy response generated by my original posting. As all the other members of ROCOR, I am aware that we remain a part of the Russian Church. I am aware that President Putin is Orthodox and attends services (George Bush also attended an Orthodox service at the Kazan Cathedral in St. Petersburg). I am aware that Putin has a personal relationship with Metropolitan Laurus. As far as I'm concerned, the ENTIRE WORLD knows these things to be true; they are obvious to all.

              I, personally, saw the occurrence of our metropolitan personally congratulating the President of Russia to be somewhat humorous and ironic (especially in light of the events of the last 5 years).

              There's no need to feel attacked or prompted to play goal tender. Yeah it is still Great Lent (it's almost over though!), but that doesn't mean we can't still have a sense of humor about things.

              C'mon guys, who honestly DIDN'T smile when they heard the news???

              -Nick Zaharov




              In a message dated 4/1/2004 12:58:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, zikonaya@... writes:

              > "Fr. Alexander Lebedeff" <lebedeff@...> wrote:
              > Nicholas Zaharov wrote:
              >
              >
              > >Metropolitan Laurus recently wrote a letter to Vladimer Putin, formally
              > >congratulating him with his re-election to the office of President of
              > >Russia. This letter has been posted on our Church's website.
              > >
              > >If George W. Bush is re-elected in the near future, I wonder if
              > >Metropolitan Laurus will also send him a letter of congratulations. I'm
              > >guessing, though, our Church will not need to do this. I do not forsee the
              > >Republican Party being in a direct position to reward us. I just don't
              > >know. I guess we shall soon see. Only time will tell...
              >
              >
              > The cynicism expressed here seems to be misplaced.
              >
              > Metropolitan Laurus is the head of what is one of the two parts of the
              > **Russian** Orthodox Church--not the American Orthodox Church.
              >
              > Vladimir Putin is the President of **Russia**--not America.
              >
              > President Bush heads nothing that has to do with Russia.
              >
              > What is strange about the head of a Russian Church congratulating the head
              > of the Russian state with his reelection? President Putin congratulated
              > Metropolitan Laurus with his election as First Hierarch--so what is strange
              > about reciprocal politeness?
              >
              > Did President Bush congratulate Metropolitan Laurus when he was elected
              > First Hierarch?
              >
              > No.
              >
              > By the way, I am sure that Metropolitan Laurus would expect Metropolitan
              > Herman, head of the Orthodox Church in **America**, to congratulate
              > President Bush, if he were to be reelected.
              >
              > Nothing strange about that, either.
              >
              > Also, another point--Metropolitan Laurus has established a personal
              > relationship with President Putin, who was the host of a two-and a half
              > hour long private dinner at the Russian Ambassador to the UN's residence in
              > New York -- only for Metropolitan Laurus and members of the Synod of
              > Bishops. President Putin at that time personally invited Metropolitan
              > Laurus to make an official visit to Russia--an invitation that Metropolitan
              > Laurus graciously accepted.
              >
              > As far as I know, President Bush has never invited Metropolitan Laurus to
              > meet with him, or hosted a private dinner for him at the White House or
              > anywhere else.
              >
              > So what is strange or sinister (or self-serving) about Metropolitan Laurus
              > congratulating President Putin on his reelection?
              >
              > It seems to be the most natural and polite thing to do.
              >
              > Of course, Nicholas is not alone in putting a cynical "spin" on this
              > innocuous letter of congratulations.
              >
              > The ROCiE mouthpiece in Russia (well, at least the anti-Varnava
              > mouthpiece), V.G. Cherkasov-Georgievskii, posted the Letter of
              > congratulations by Metropolitan Laurus on his website, with the following
              > comment:
              >
              > "Here is a document, provocatively (!) posted on the official site of the
              > Lavrites, which speaks to the fact that the head of the ROCOR(L) Lavr
              > Shkurla, with all his might, is dying to participate in the Patriarchal
              > Olympics in Moscow."
              >
              > Those who have even the slightest acquaintance with our meek, humble, and
              > self-effacing First Hierarch, who would much rather be spending his time
              > praying at all the monastic services at Jordanville, and spending time in
              > solitude at his little and humble skete there, know how ridiculous this
              > accusation is.
              >
              > I fear that there are some who think that in order to be "Genuinely
              > Orthodox" we must eschew knowledge of expected diplomatic courtesy and
              > elementary protocol --that we should be primitive, crude, and rude. (Now,
              > **that's** real Orthodoxy!)
              >
              > I beg to disagree.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > >
              >
              >
              > With love in Christ,
              >
              > Prot. Alexander Lebedeff
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > Archives located at
              > http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
            • Fr. Alexander Lebedeff
              ... So what? He is the First Hierarch of a world-wide **Russian** Orthodox Church, with parishes and monasteries in over 40 countries. The fact that the
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 1, 2004
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                Zina Kochnaya wrote:

                >Metr. Laurus is an American Citizen, not Russian.

                So what? He is the First Hierarch of a world-wide **Russian** Orthodox
                Church, with parishes and monasteries in over 40 countries.

                The fact that the headquarters of the Church Abroad, at this point, happen
                to be in New York is not relevant. The center of the Church Abroad could
                just as well be in Australia, or somewhere in Europe, for that matter.


                > In fact he is Ukranian.

                He would be most surprised to find out this "fact."

                He, is, in fact, Carpatho-Russian by origin--not Ukrainian.



                >I am surprised at this news and your statement, Fr. Alexander. I don't think
                >Metr. Laurus should have sent his congratulations. It is political.


                It is not political when the leader of the Russian Church (Abroad)
                congratulates the leader of the Russian State. It is common courtesy.

                Was St. Paul's directive to pray for the pagan Roman Emperor political?


                With love in Christ,

                Prot. Alexander Lebedeff


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • byakimov@csc.com.au
                I would have congratulated the ex KGB agent Putin if he had set up a TRUTH Commission or something similar & condemned the Soviet atrocities & the butchers
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 1, 2004
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                  I would have congratulated the ex KGB agent Putin if he had set up a TRUTH
                  Commission or something
                  similar & condemned the Soviet atrocities & the butchers (the macabre
                  massacre) committed against the people of Russia & Russia Herself. Instead
                  he has spread the ex-KGB tentacles across post soviet Russia & is very
                  proud of the soviet times. I guess there are Chekistyi in these confused &
                  troubled times who are now considered to be the good guys no matter what
                  their past.... indeed we live in strashneyshiya vremena as blessed in
                  memory Archbishop Averky would say.... Lord Help us ALL please.

                  unworthy protodeacon Basil from Canberra




                  zina kochnaya <zikonaya@...> on 02/04/2004 03:58:55 AM

                  Please respond to orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com

                  To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                  cc:
                  Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Congratulations to Putin


                  Metr. Laurus is an American Citizen, not Russian. In fact he is Ukranian.

                  I am surprised at this news and your statement, Fr. Alexander. I don't
                  think
                  Metr. Laurus should have sent his congratulations. It is political.

                  "Fr. Alexander Lebedeff" <lebedeff@...> wrote:
                  Nicholas Zaharov wrote:


                  >Metropolitan Laurus recently wrote a letter to Vladimer Putin, formally
                  >congratulating him with his re-election to the office of President of
                  >Russia. This letter has been posted on our Church's website.
                  >
                  >If George W. Bush is re-elected in the near future, I wonder if
                  >Metropolitan Laurus will also send him a letter of congratulations. I'm
                  >guessing, though, our Church will not need to do this. I do not forsee the
                  >Republican Party being in a direct position to reward us. I just don't
                  >know. I guess we shall soon see. Only time will tell...


                  The cynicism expressed here seems to be misplaced.

                  Metropolitan Laurus is the head of what is one of the two parts of the
                  **Russian** Orthodox Church--not the American Orthodox Church.

                  Vladimir Putin is the President of **Russia**--not America.

                  President Bush heads nothing that has to do with Russia.

                  What is strange about the head of a Russian Church congratulating the head
                  of the Russian state with his reelection? President Putin congratulated
                  Metropolitan Laurus with his election as First Hierarch--so what is strange
                  about reciprocal politeness?

                  Did President Bush congratulate Metropolitan Laurus when he was elected
                  First Hierarch?

                  No.

                  By the way, I am sure that Metropolitan Laurus would expect Metropolitan
                  Herman, head of the Orthodox Church in **America**, to congratulate
                  President Bush, if he were to be reelected.

                  Nothing strange about that, either.

                  Also, another point--Metropolitan Laurus has established a personal
                  relationship with President Putin, who was the host of a two-and a half
                  hour long private dinner at the Russian Ambassador to the UN's residence in
                  New York -- only for Metropolitan Laurus and members of the Synod of
                  Bishops. President Putin at that time personally invited Metropolitan
                  Laurus to make an official visit to Russia--an invitation that Metropolitan
                  Laurus graciously accepted.

                  As far as I know, President Bush has never invited Metropolitan Laurus to
                  meet with him, or hosted a private dinner for him at the White House or
                  anywhere else.

                  So what is strange or sinister (or self-serving) about Metropolitan Laurus
                  congratulating President Putin on his reelection?

                  It seems to be the most natural and polite thing to do.

                  Of course, Nicholas is not alone in putting a cynical "spin" on this
                  innocuous letter of congratulations.

                  The ROCiE mouthpiece in Russia (well, at least the anti-Varnava
                  mouthpiece), V.G. Cherkasov-Georgievskii, posted the Letter of
                  congratulations by Metropolitan Laurus on his website, with the following
                  comment:

                  "Here is a document, provocatively (!) posted on the official site of the
                  Lavrites, which speaks to the fact that the head of the ROCOR(L) Lavr
                  Shkurla, with all his might, is dying to participate in the Patriarchal
                  Olympics in Moscow."

                  Those who have even the slightest acquaintance with our meek, humble, and
                  self-effacing First Hierarch, who would much rather be spending his time
                  praying at all the monastic services at Jordanville, and spending time in
                  solitude at his little and humble skete there, know how ridiculous this
                  accusation is.

                  I fear that there are some who think that in order to be "Genuinely
                  Orthodox" we must eschew knowledge of expected diplomatic courtesy and
                  elementary protocol --that we should be primitive, crude, and rude. (Now,
                  **that's** real Orthodoxy!)

                  I beg to disagree.






                  >


                  With love in Christ,

                  Prot. Alexander Lebedeff


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  Archives located at http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod





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                • Fr. John R. Shaw
                  ... congratulations. I m ... JRS: In 1972, when President Nixon was reelected, Archbishop Nikon (Rklitsky) of Washington and Florida, vice-President of the
                  Message 8 of 12 , Apr 1, 2004
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                    Nicholas Zaharov wrote:

                    > > >If George W. Bush is re-elected in the near future, I wonder if
                    > > >Metropolitan Laurus will also send him a letter of
                    congratulations. I'm
                    > > >guessing, though, our Church will not need to do this.

                    JRS: In 1972, when President Nixon was reelected, Archbishop Nikon
                    (Rklitsky) of Washington and Florida, vice-President of the Synod of
                    Bishops, wrote him a letter of congratulation.

                    As Vl. Nikon's secretary, I prepared that letter for his signature.

                    There was a brief, but polite, reply, signed by President Nixon.

                    In Christ
                    Fr. John R. Shaw
                  • for4z@aol.com
                    It seems a fundamental goal of Orthodox Christianity is being overlooked in this discussion. Is it not our goal to spread the Word to ALL NATIONS and ALL
                    Message 9 of 12 , Apr 1, 2004
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                      It seems a fundamental goal of Orthodox Christianity is being overlooked in
                      this discussion. Is it not our goal to spread the Word to ALL NATIONS and ALL
                      PEOPLES? What does RUSSIAN in Russian Orthodox Church really mean? I don't
                      think it means the political boundaries of RUSSIA (those have certainly changed
                      over the years since St. Vladimir and, undoudtedly, will change in the
                      future). I don't think it means ethnic Russians (would it not be absurd to ask
                      non-Russian converts to pretend to be ethnically Russian - although readers of
                      this list may have seen such suggestions over the years). Does it not seem
                      appropriate that RUSSIAN in Russian Orthodox Church might best describe the lineage
                      and heritage of our Church, not necessarily its political or ethnic future.
                      It is clear from all the postings over the last few years that some of our
                      leaders are striving for the ethnic and others for the political. I would like
                      to hear from among our leaders who are more committed to ACCEPTING and
                      RESPECTING ALL PEOPLES INTO RUSSIAN ORTHODOXY, REGARDLESS OF THEIR POLITICAL OR ETHNIC
                      BACKGROUND. If we try to limit the Church to RUSSIAN politics, language, and
                      customs, what business does the Church have in the Holy Land or on Mt. Athos?
                      It is clear the Church saw a need and a business to be there and to be in
                      other countries. Did St. Nicholas of Japan force the Japanese converts to speak
                      Russian and accept Russian politics? No, he worked to translate service
                      books into Japanese and ordained Japanese priests. Did St. Patriarch Tikhon try
                      to annex North American lands to Russia because there might have been Russian
                      Orthodox immigrants in North America? No, he was for the Orthodox in America
                      having their own church in America. Do not all our services include prayer for
                      the secular government of the COUNTRY IN WHICH THEY ARE LOCATED? Would not
                      the polite action, therefore, be to congratulate lawful leaders in every
                      country where we have a parish? In addition to political questions, there are many
                      jurisdictional disputes today among the many different "Orthodox" Churches and
                      dialog to lower boundaries, build brotherhood, and seek unity may certainly
                      be a positive step. However, should this be a shield to promote
                      ethno-political agendas? Are we seeking to build Orthodoxy or to promote Russia at the
                      expense of other lands and peoples?

                      Eugene Zaharov


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • VJB
                      Dear Fr. Deacon, I should have probably simply ignored this, but I find this post very disturbing. I lived in Russia in the 80 s and early 90 s, and I know
                      Message 10 of 12 , Apr 1, 2004
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                        Dear Fr. Deacon,

                        I should have probably simply ignored this, but I find this post very disturbing. I lived in Russia in the 80's and early 90's, and I know that the entire nation (including Mr. Putin) went through rethinking its past and condemned the Soviet regime with all the atrocities. One must be blind not to see that. The most vivid proof of this is the fact that the USSR has collapsed and the KPSS was banned as a political organization (do not confuse with KPRF and other similar contemporary political groups).

                        I read this post as a sign of disrespect for the Russian people and their choice coming from an confused person living in Australia. Not to mention the disrespect to the First Hierarch of a part of the Russian Church. What you (and some others) seem to miss here, Fr. Deacon, is the fact that Mr. Putin was elected by the Russian people and has the right to represent the people (many of whom are Orthodox) and the country to which many of us (in the Church Abroad) are related in one way or another.

                        Sincerely,

                        V. Boitchenko (Albany, New York)
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: byakimov@...
                        To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 5:20 PM
                        Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Congratulations to Putin


                        I would have congratulated the ex KGB agent Putin if he had set up a TRUTH
                        Commission or something
                        similar & condemned the Soviet atrocities & the butchers (the macabre
                        massacre) committed against the people of Russia & Russia Herself. Instead
                        he has spread the ex-KGB tentacles across post soviet Russia & is very
                        proud of the soviet times. I guess there are Chekistyi in these confused &
                        troubled times who are now considered to be the good guys no matter what
                        their past.... indeed we live in strashneyshiya vremena as blessed in
                        memory Archbishop Averky would say.... Lord Help us ALL please.

                        unworthy protodeacon Basil from Canberra





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • otto bismarc
                        Obviously Holy Orthodoxy has been attacked by the communist past regimes, yet we have seen God s Grace that the Holy Orthodox Church still remains! Clearly a
                        Message 11 of 12 , Apr 2, 2004
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                          Obviously Holy Orthodoxy has been attacked by the
                          communist past regimes, yet we have seen God's Grace
                          that the Holy Orthodox Church still remains! Clearly a
                          monarchy rule would be the only government supported
                          by Hoy Scripture yet lets face it we always owe more
                          to God than Caesar, so why be angry & resentful about
                          the past, not that means to forget, let us pray as
                          Archbishop Averky stated.
                          In Christ
                          Xenos Mann



                          --- byakimov@... wrote:
                          > Archbishop Averky would say.... Lord Help us
                          > ALL please.
                          >
                          > unworthy protodeacon Basil from Canberra
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > zina kochnaya <zikonaya@...> on 02/04/2004
                          > 03:58:55 AM
                          >
                          > Please respond to orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          > To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
                          > cc:
                          > Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Congratulations to
                          > Putin
                          >
                          >
                          > Metr. Laurus is an American Citizen, not Russian.
                          > In fact he is Ukranian.
                          >
                          > I am surprised at this news and your statement, Fr.
                          > Alexander. I don't
                          > think
                          > Metr. Laurus should have sent his congratulations.
                          > It is political.
                          >
                          > "Fr. Alexander Lebedeff" <lebedeff@...>
                          > wrote:
                          > Nicholas Zaharov wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > >Metropolitan Laurus recently wrote a letter to
                          > Vladimer Putin, formally
                          > >congratulating him with his re-election to the
                          > office of President of
                          > >Russia. This letter has been posted on our Church's
                          > website.
                          > >
                          > >If George W. Bush is re-elected in the near future,
                          > I wonder if
                          > >Metropolitan Laurus will also send him a letter of
                          > congratulations. I'm
                          > >guessing, though, our Church will not need to do
                          > this. I do not forsee the
                          > >Republican Party being in a direct position to
                          > reward us. I just don't
                          > >know. I guess we shall soon see. Only time will
                          > tell...
                          >
                          >
                          > The cynicism expressed here seems to be misplaced.
                          >
                          > Metropolitan Laurus is the head of what is one of
                          > the two parts of the
                          > **Russian** Orthodox Church--not the American
                          > Orthodox Church.
                          >
                          > Vladimir Putin is the President of **Russia**--not
                          > America.
                          >
                          > President Bush heads nothing that has to do with
                          > Russia.
                          >
                          > What is strange about the head of a Russian Church
                          > congratulating the head
                          > of the Russian state with his reelection? President
                          > Putin congratulated
                          > Metropolitan Laurus with his election as First
                          > Hierarch--so what is strange
                          > about reciprocal politeness?
                          >
                          > Did President Bush congratulate Metropolitan Laurus
                          > when he was elected
                          > First Hierarch?
                          >
                          > No.
                          >
                          > By the way, I am sure that Metropolitan Laurus would
                          > expect Metropolitan
                          > Herman, head of the Orthodox Church in **America**,
                          > to congratulate
                          > President Bush, if he were to be reelected.
                          >
                          > Nothing strange about that, either.
                          >
                          > Also, another point--Metropolitan Laurus has
                          > established a personal
                          > relationship with President Putin, who was the host
                          > of a two-and a half
                          > hour long private dinner at the Russian Ambassador
                          > to the UN's residence in
                          > New York -- only for Metropolitan Laurus and members
                          > of the Synod of
                          > Bishops. President Putin at that time personally
                          > invited Metropolitan
                          > Laurus to make an official visit to Russia--an
                          > invitation that Metropolitan
                          > Laurus graciously accepted.
                          >
                          > As far as I know, President Bush has never invited
                          > Metropolitan Laurus to
                          > meet with him, or hosted a private dinner for him at
                          > the White House or
                          > anywhere else.
                          >
                          > So what is strange or sinister (or self-serving)
                          > about Metropolitan Laurus
                          > congratulating President Putin on his reelection?
                          >
                          > It seems to be the most natural and polite thing to
                          > do.
                          >
                          > Of course, Nicholas is not alone in putting a
                          > cynical "spin" on this
                          > innocuous letter of congratulations.
                          >
                          > The ROCiE mouthpiece in Russia (well, at least the
                          > anti-Varnava
                          > mouthpiece), V.G. Cherkasov-Georgievskii, posted the
                          > Letter of
                          > congratulations by Metropolitan Laurus on his
                          > website, with the following
                          > comment:
                          >
                          > "Here is a document, provocatively (!) posted on the
                          > official site of the
                          > Lavrites, which speaks to the fact that the head of
                          > the ROCOR(L) Lavr
                          > Shkurla, with all his might, is dying to participate
                          > in the Patriarchal
                          > Olympics in Moscow."
                          >
                          > Those who have even the slightest acquaintance with
                          > our meek, humble, and
                          > self-effacing First Hierarch, who would much rather
                          > be spending his time
                          > praying at all the monastic services at Jordanville,
                          > and spending time in
                          > solitude at his little and humble skete there, know
                          > how ridiculous this
                          > accusation is.
                          >
                          > I fear that there are some who think that in order
                          > to be "Genuinely
                          > Orthodox" we must eschew knowledge of expected
                          > diplomatic courtesy and
                          > elementary protocol --that we should be primitive,
                          > crude, and rude. (Now,
                          > **that's** real Orthodoxy!)
                          >
                          > I beg to disagree.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > With love in Christ,
                          >
                          > Prot. Alexander Lebedeff
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                          > removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
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                          >
                          >
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                          >
                          >
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                        • achumakov2001
                          Not that it matters much, but I ve seen an old photo album produced to commemorate some past anniversary of Met. Laurus (it must have been his 20 years as
                          Message 12 of 12 , May 1, 2004
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                            Not that it matters much, but I've seen an old photo album produced
                            to commemorate some past anniversary of Met. Laurus (it must have
                            been his 20 years as bishop, I forgot - I have that book at home).
                            There were many congratulatory notes there, including one from the
                            White House (pres. Reagan), the Governor of NY and many others. I
                            would think that it is quite natural and within the "protocol" for a
                            Church leader to congratulate the president and to be congratulated,
                            although these congratulations rarely gain as much publicity as the
                            one to Putin.
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