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Courland Nobility

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  • vkozyreff
    Dear List, I wonder whether this is known to many, but Patriarch Alexis II is a nobleman. In God, Vladimir Kozyreff Patriarch Alexis II: Our family was very
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 14, 2004
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      Dear List,

      I wonder whether this is known to many, but Patriarch Alexis II is a
      nobleman.

      In God,

      Vladimir Kozyreff


      Patriarch Alexis II: "Our family was very well-known in Russia. At
      least in pre-revolutionary Russia. The Russian family Ridiger began
      its existence in Empress Catherine's times. The Courland nobleman
      Friedrich Wilhelm von Ridiger converted to Orthodoxy and Fiodor
      Ivanovich von Ridiger became the founder of the family, which became
      known from then on in Russia. Among the family's representatives, for
      example, one may name count Fiodor Vasiljevich Ridiger, who was a
      statesman, a general, and a hero of the patriotic war of 1812"...

      http://www.izvestia.ru/person/article27596


      Courland represents geographically 1/5 of Latvia, and politically was
      1/3 of Latvia. The name "Curonia" (in Latin) comes from the name of
      the Kurshi tribes, which had settled in modern western Latvia and
      western Lithuania (see Kursiu nerija in Lithuania).

      Most of the German population of the region were descendants of
      colons from Brandenburg and Lower Germany. The Sword Bearers - later
      the Livonian Order - was a order of chivalry which kept the military
      and church order in the region. The Teutonic State came to an end in
      the 15th century.

      Afterwards, there were many independent and quasi independent states,
      the greatest of which was the Duchy of Courland (16th to 18th
      centuries) and the Episcopal Principality of Pilten. The real power
      of the Germans (Baltic Germans) ended only after the 1905 revolution
      and the land reform of 1922

      Courland as a name never died. The Duchy of Courland, after its
      incorporation into the Russian Empire was renamed as "Courland
      Gubernia".

      During WWI, Germany planned to have a protectorate over the Baltic
      States between 1917 (Russia's withdrawal from the war) and 1918
      (German defeat). This project was never implemented (was not accepted
      by the Kaiser).

      More realistic was the "Ostland project", which consisted in creating
      a German State on the basis of the former Courland, Livonia and
      Estland gubernias.

      In pre-WWII Latvia (also in modern Latvia), Courland was part of
      Latvia (Kurzeme, Vidzeme, Latgale…).

      (VK's linguistic corrections)

      Gvido Petersons, 29 June 1999

      http://flagspot.net/flags/lv-cour.html
    • Michael Tscheekar
      The post on Courland was especially interesting to me because my grandfather was from Kurland, the western-most province of today s Latvia. He was born in
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 15, 2004
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        The post on Courland was especially interesting to me because my
        grandfather was from Kurland, the western-most province of today's
        Latvia. He was born in 1881 in Pope, a small village between Riga and
        Ventspils (Windau then). His baptismal certificate is in Russian and
        German. He graduated from a maritime academy in Ventspils; his diploma
        describes him as a "krestianin," certainly not nobility. Phonetically
        in Russian his last name is spelled Chekur, while in German it is
        spelled Tscheekurs (in modern Latvian it is Čiekurs).

        Michael Tscheekar
        Santa Maria
      • vkozyreff
        Dear List, We know that the Russian nobility of German origin provided some of the best and most faithful servants of Russia. Some of those families were
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 15, 2004
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          Dear List,

          We know that the Russian nobility of German origin provided some of
          the best and most faithful servants of Russia. Some of those families
          were defeated twice at Tannenberg. In July 15, 1410, when the battle
          marked the end of the Teutonic knights power in the region, and on 22-
          30 August 1914, when they had become Russian and fought bravely
          against Germany.

          Glory to them. I have the honour of knowing a few of their
          descendents, who are among the best Russian patriots that I know.

          For that reason however, having origins linked to the Deutsche
          Ritterorden, being noble and having made a career in the Soviet Union
          is never a good reference. It just aggaravates the case.

          The regime conceded a career only to the most secure and checked
          (provieriannie) individuals, especially in the church. The demanded
          faithfulness guarantees to the regime, which endeavoured at
          destroying the Faith, were directly proportional in quality to the
          potentially negative factors in the candidate's background, such as
          noble origin or a known practicing Christian family background.

          The guarantees were even more substantial if the candidate was
          allowed to have a lightning-fast career, as is the case for Alexis
          II.

          The guarantees had to be even clearer during the Khruschev years,
          known as the second wave of persecutions against the Church.

          "..in the years of the so-called Khruschev's Thaw, the Church was
          again subjected to persecution, for within a few years about 7
          thousand parishes, which reopened during and after the year, were
          closed". (Sept. 1953-Oct. 14, 1964)

          http://www.russian-orthodox-church.org.ru/ne208261.htm

          "… In a speech at Dahlgren Chapel at Georgetown University in 1991,
          Aleksy said that he consciously choose to serve his Church while
          exercising a compliant manner toward the state because it was a time
          when the "black-raven car" of the secret police frequently arrived in
          front of the house of many priests. It is quite likely that Aleksy's
          service to the Soviet Union not only allowed him to escape the fear
          of the black-raven car arriving at his house, but also to know
          exactly whose house the car was headed before it got there".

          http://www.episcopalian.org/rmn/ANEDITOR.htm

          Summary of Patriarch Alexis II brilliant career

          In 1947 entered the Leningrad theological seminary, in 1949 the
          Spiritual academy.

          In 1950 deacon, priest, rector of the Epiphany church in the city of
          Jyhvy.

          In 1957, is transferred from the rectory of the Dormition church to
          the Tartu cathedral.

          Since 1959 - archpriest, honourable citizen of the Tartu -
          Viljandinsky districts.

          On March, 3, 1961, received as a monk, in August of the same year,
          became bishop of Tallinn and Estonia, in 1964 - archbishop.

          Since December, 22, 1964 - administrative director of the Moscow
          patriarchy, permanent member of the Synod.

          In 1968 - metropolitan.

          In 1986, headed the Leningrad and Novgorod faculty.

          In 1989, People's Deputy of the USSR.

          On May, 3, 1990, elected as Patriarch of Moscow and all Russia.

          Doctor of church history, doctor of theololgy of foreign educational
          institutions, full member of the Academy of education of the Russian
          Federation, professor honoris causa of the Russian Academy of
          Sciences, knight of the highest church orders, recipient of many
          state awards of Russia and foreign states.

          http://www.izvestia.ru/person/article27596

          --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "vkozyreff"
          <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
          > Dear List,
          >
          > I wonder whether this is known to many, but Patriarch Alexis II is
          a
          > nobleman.
          >
          > In God,
          >
          > Vladimir Kozyreff
          >
          >
          > Patriarch Alexis II: "Our family was very well-known in Russia. At
          > least in pre-revolutionary Russia. The Russian family Ridiger began
          > its existence in Empress Catherine's times. The Courland nobleman
          > Friedrich Wilhelm von Ridiger converted to Orthodoxy and Fiodor
          > Ivanovich von Ridiger became the founder of the family, which
          became
          > known from then on in Russia. Among the family's representatives,
          for
          > example, one may name count Fiodor Vasiljevich Ridiger, who was a
          > statesman, a general, and a hero of the patriotic war of 1812"...
          >
          > http://www.izvestia.ru/person/article27596
          >
          >
          > Courland represents geographically 1/5 of Latvia, and politically
          was
          > 1/3 of Latvia. The name "Curonia" (in Latin) comes from the name of
          > the Kurshi tribes, which had settled in modern western Latvia and
          > western Lithuania (see Kursiu nerija in Lithuania).
          >
          > Most of the German population of the region were descendants of
          > colons from Brandenburg and Lower Germany. The Sword Bearers -
          later
          > the Livonian Order - was a order of chivalry which kept the
          military
          > and church order in the region. The Teutonic State came to an end
          in
          > the 15th century.
          >
          > Afterwards, there were many independent and quasi independent
          states,
          > the greatest of which was the Duchy of Courland (16th to 18th
          > centuries) and the Episcopal Principality of Pilten. The real power
          > of the Germans (Baltic Germans) ended only after the 1905
          revolution
          > and the land reform of 1922
          >
          > Courland as a name never died. The Duchy of Courland, after its
          > incorporation into the Russian Empire was renamed as "Courland
          > Gubernia".
          >
          > During WWI, Germany planned to have a protectorate over the Baltic
          > States between 1917 (Russia's withdrawal from the war) and 1918
          > (German defeat). This project was never implemented (was not
          accepted
          > by the Kaiser).
          >
          > More realistic was the "Ostland project", which consisted in
          creating
          > a German State on the basis of the former Courland, Livonia and
          > Estland gubernias.
          >
          > In pre-WWII Latvia (also in modern Latvia), Courland was part of
          > Latvia (Kurzeme, Vidzeme, Latgale…).
          >
          > (VK's linguistic corrections)
          >
          > Gvido Petersons, 29 June 1999
          >
          > http://flagspot.net/flags/lv-cour.html
        • vkozyreff
          Dear List, Lenin too was a nobleman. In God, Vladimir Kozyreff Vladimir Ilich Ulianov (VI) was born on April 10, 1870 (old calendar), in Simbirsk on the Volga.
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 15, 2004
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            Dear List,

            Lenin too was a nobleman.

            In God,

            Vladimir Kozyreff

            Vladimir Ilich Ulianov (VI) was born on April 10, 1870 (old
            calendar), in Simbirsk on the Volga. He was the son of Ilia
            Nikolaevich Ulianov, whose mother was of Kalmyk ancestry (Mongolian
            ethnic group), and Maria Alexandrovna Blank. VI's father was a school
            inspector in the Simbirsk district, and in 1874 he had the rank of
            Actual State Counsellor and the title of Excellency, and had thus
            attained hereditary nobility.

            http://www.fbuch.com/memories.htm

            In many archived documents, he signed "Hereditary nobleman V. Ulyanov"

            His father, Ilya Ulyanov, a local schools inspector, held
            conservative views and was a devout member of the Russian Orthodox
            Church

            http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/LRUSlenin.htm

            --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, Michael Tscheekar <misha@s...>
            wrote:
            > The post on Courland was especially interesting to me because my
            > grandfather was from Kurland, the western-most province of today's
            > Latvia. He was born in 1881 in Pope, a small village between Riga
            and
            > Ventspils (Windau then). His baptismal certificate is in Russian
            and
            > German. He graduated from a maritime academy in Ventspils; his
            diploma
            > describes him as a "krestianin," certainly not nobility.
            Phonetically
            > in Russian his last name is spelled Chekur, while in German it is
            > spelled Tscheekurs (in modern Latvian it is Čiekurs).
            >
            > Michael Tscheekar
            > Santa Maria
          • tiajaia
            VK, Being of noble birth confers responsibily. There is no guarantee that one will live up to those responsibilities. Likewise being of low birth does not
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 15, 2004
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              VK,

              Being of noble birth confers responsibily. There is no guarantee
              that one will live up to those responsibilities. Likewise being of
              low birth does not confer saintliness, although it may be easier for
              those of low birth to attain the Kingdom of Heaven than it would be
              for those elevated in society to avoid the temptations that power
              offers.

              If someone goes against the principals of thier heredity they cease
              to belong to it. Therefore to say that Lenin is/was a nobleman is a
              gross insult to those who suffered for their Tsar, their country and
              its culture. By his behavior we see that he was not very noble. If
              he was entitled to certain rights and privleges he betrayed his duty.

              Paul




              --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "vkozyreff"
              <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
              > Dear List,
              >
              > Lenin too was a nobleman.
            • Fr. John R. Shaw
              ... JRS: Nevertheless, this is the first I ever heard that Lenin was a nobleman . ... family. However, I heard, as I recall on a TV documentary, a recording
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 15, 2004
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                Paul Tiajoloff wrote:

                > If someone goes against the principals of thier heredity they cease
                > to belong to it. Therefore to say that Lenin is/was a nobleman is a
                > gross insult to those who suffered for their Tsar, their country and
                > its culture. By his behavior we see that he was not very noble. If
                > he was entitled to certain rights and privleges he betrayed his duty.

                JRS: Nevertheless, this is the first I ever heard that Lenin was "a
                nobleman".

                >From all accounts I've encountered up to now, he came of a middle class
                family.

                However, I heard, as I recall on a TV documentary, a recording of his
                voice, in which he was attacking "the power of the Tsar, of the
                pomeschiks [landed gentry]" and other such upper classes. His voice was
                bitter, full of hate (as borne out by what others say of him).

                So, if that's nobility, it's hardly elevating.

                In Christ
                Fr. John R. Shaw
              • vkozyreff
                Dear List, Belonging to the middle class in American terms was not at all incompatible with being or becoming a nobleman in Russia. One could also have a
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 16, 2004
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                  Dear List,

                  Belonging to the "middle class" in American terms was not at all
                  incompatible with being or becoming a nobleman in Russia. One could
                  also have a behaviour that was not noble at all and be a nobleman.

                  In Christ,

                  Vladimir Kozyreff


                  Regarding the Ridiger family, one may mention

                  Ridiger Vladimir Romanovich. Nobleman. Great-grandson of general
                  Ridiger who, under Nicholas I suppressed the Hungarian revolt. In
                  1932 expert on drainage of marshes, more than ten patents on machines
                  and ways of drainage of marshes, lived in Dmitrovo, worked at the
                  Moscow Marsh station of the Byelorussia institute of land
                  improvement.

                  Ridiger Fiodor Vassilievich, 1783-1856. From Courland nobility.
                  Count. Cavalry general (1831). General - adjudant (1831). Wife Louise
                  Carlova Fircs. Had no children. Title was legally assumed by his
                  nephew, Staff-captain of the Guard mounted grenadiers regiment,
                  Fiodor Germanovich Ridiger.

                  http://www.vgd.ru/fraim.htm

                  The Tsar had the power to grant hereditary titles. These usually went
                  to men who had achieved high rank in the armed forces and the civil
                  service. It 1900 it was estimated that there were about 1.8 million
                  members of the nobility in Russia.

                  "The nobility has never been a cliquey class. Everybody who was
                  honest and daring, who did nor spare oneself for commonweal who was
                  loyal to Tsar and Russia had a fair chance to be ennobled. The desire
                  to become a nobleman empowered a lot of people to do their best. What
                  a pity that at present our motherland can not use this strongest
                  incentive!"

                  http://www.rds.org.ru/eng/address.htm

                  WHO WAS NOBLE IN RUSSIA AT THE END OF THE EMPRIE?

                  Anybody who could fulfil one of the following criteria was considered
                  noble, thus any person:
                  • who was a direct and legitimate descendant of an individual
                  who possessed hereditary nobility and who was thus inscribed in one
                  of the six parts of the Registers of the Nobility of a government
                  (see below);
                  • who had been ennobled by Letters Patent of the Emperor, which
                  entailed inscription in the 1st part of the Registers of the Nobility;
                  • who had obtained in active service (and not at the time of
                  retirement), one of the grades in the Table of Ranks that entailed
                  ipso facto admission to the hereditary nobility:
                  in the army: colonel (6th grade)
                  in the navy: captain 1st rank (6th grade)
                  in the civil service: acting state councillor (4th grade)

                  In the first two instances, ennoblement entailed inscription in the
                  2nd part (nobility acquired through military service) of the
                  Registers of the Nobility; in the third, inscription in the 3rd part
                  (nobility acquired through civil service).
                  • who was awarded the first class (grand cross) of one of the
                  following four Imperial Orders:
                  Saint Alexander Nevsky
                  The White Eagle
                  Saint Anne
                  Saint Stanislas

                  • who was awarded one of the four classes of the Order of Saint
                  George or the Order of Saint Vladimir 1st, 2nd or 3rd class (the 4th
                  class of the latter since 1900 brought with it only personal
                  nobility). Ennoblement through reception of the Order of Saint George
                  entailed inscription in the 2nd part of the Registers of the
                  Nobility, and that of the Order of Saint Vladimir, in the 2nd or 3rd
                  part according to the functions, military or civil, of the grantee.
                  • who was a son and grandson (not one or the other) of a person
                  who had enjoyed personal nobility for a minimum of twenty years. In
                  this instance, and on condition of having reached the age of
                  seventeen and of being in the army or civil service, the individual
                  in question could ask the Emperor to grant him Letters Patent of
                  hereditary nobility. The latter, after having examined the dossier
                  and opinion of the Senate, could accept or reject the claim; in other
                  words, this type of ennoblement was in no way automatic.
                  Depending on the military or civil services rendered by the ancestors
                  of the candidate, he would be inscribed in the 2nd or 3rd (not the
                  1st) part of the Registers of the Nobility.

                  Lastly, it should be noted that when a woman who was not of noble
                  birth married a Russian nobleman, she acquired for herself, by her
                  marriage, hereditary nobility.

                  Personal nobility was acquired by obtaining the rank of cornet in the
                  armed forces and that of midshipman (michman) in the navy (12th and
                  10th grades respectively),* and the rank of titular councillor in the
                  civil service (9th class). It was also accorded, since 1900, to
                  persons decorated with the 4th class of the Order of Saint Vladimir,
                  which had previously conferred hereditary nobility. The wife of a
                  nobleman acquired ad personam the same quality, but their children
                  only had the right to the qualification of hereditary honorary
                  citizen.
                  *Gmeline, in the original has "l'épaulette d'aspirant dans l'armée de
                  terre, celle d'enseigne de vaisseau dans la marine (13e et 11e
                  classe). At the time of the Revolution, however, the 13th and 11th
                  ranks in these services were vacant. The 11th rank had only ever been
                  used in the navy for the grade of "secretary of naval constructions"
                  and had been suppressed as early as 1732 (it had become a civil rank
                  after that but only lasted until c. 1834). In the army, the 13th rank
                  had also been suppressed since 1884 and was only used in times of war
                  with the grade of ensign (praporshchik).

                  Prior to this, hereditary nobility had been acquired on attaining the
                  14th grade in the armed forces and the 8th grade in the civil
                  service. The Emperor Nicholas I, in an attempt to render this process
                  more difficult, issued an Imperial Ukase in 1845 whereby only
                  personal nobility was granted to any person who reached the rank of
                  ensign (praporshchik) in the army (14th grade) or that of titular
                  councillor in the civil service (9th grade). Hereditary nobility,
                  which in reality was the only one that counted for without it one
                  could not call oneself a gentleman, belonged only to those officers
                  who now attained the rank of lieutenant colonel (7th grade) or civil
                  servants with the rank of state councillor (5th grade). Nicholas I
                  also introduced into the Table of Ranks a hierarchy for the servants
                  of the Department of Mines and for university students.

                  http://www.geocities.com/tfboettger/russian/noble.htm


                  --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John R. Shaw"
                  <vrevjrs@e...> wrote:
                  > Paul Tiajoloff wrote:
                  >
                  > > If someone goes against the principals of thier heredity they
                  cease
                  > > to belong to it. Therefore to say that Lenin is/was a nobleman
                  is a
                  > > gross insult to those who suffered for their Tsar, their country
                  and
                  > > its culture. By his behavior we see that he was not very noble.
                  If
                  > > he was entitled to certain rights and privleges he betrayed his
                  duty.
                  >
                  > JRS: Nevertheless, this is the first I ever heard that Lenin was "a
                  > nobleman".
                  >
                  > >From all accounts I've encountered up to now, he came of a middle
                  class
                  > family.
                  >
                  > However, I heard, as I recall on a TV documentary, a recording of
                  his
                  > voice, in which he was attacking "the power of the Tsar, of the
                  > pomeschiks [landed gentry]" and other such upper classes. His voice
                  was
                  > bitter, full of hate (as borne out by what others say of him).
                  >
                  > So, if that's nobility, it's hardly elevating.
                  >
                  > In Christ
                  > Fr. John R. Shaw
                • Reader John
                  Dear Vladimir and list, This discussion of the Ridiger family s noble ancestry makes me gag. It is an obvious propaganda ploy to burnish the image of Patriarch
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jan 16, 2004
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                    Dear Vladimir and list,

                    This discussion of the Ridiger family's noble ancestry makes me gag.
                    It is an obvious propaganda ploy to burnish the image of Patriarch
                    Alexei aimed at descendents of the White Russians, cadets and those
                    who supported the monarchy and the church, who fought against the
                    communists and provided many of the new Russian martyrs. Many such
                    people are in our church. Hopefully they will not be fooled by the
                    MP propaganda machine and its syncophants.

                    Does anyone doubt for one minute that were Russia still under the
                    communist yoke, we would be reading about the glorious Ridigers who
                    were heros of the proletariat, reported on relatives listening to
                    radio free europe, led uprisings against the oppressor capitalist
                    clique, served with Brezhvev at Stalingrad, kept their red corner up
                    to date with lamps, photos of the politburo and exalted
                    Marxist/Leninist ideaology above all else.

                    Don't be fooled.

                    In Christ,
                    Rdr John (Qualls)


                    --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "vkozyreff"
                    <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
                    > Dear List,
                    >
                    > Belonging to the "middle class" in American terms was not at all
                    > incompatible with being or becoming a nobleman in Russia. One could
                    > also have a behaviour that was not noble at all and be a nobleman.
                    >
                    > In Christ,
                    >
                    > Vladimir Kozyreff
                    >
                    >
                    > Regarding the Ridiger family, one may mention
                    >
                    > Ridiger Vladimir Romanovich. Nobleman. Great-grandson of general
                    > Ridiger who, under Nicholas I suppressed the Hungarian revolt. In
                    > 1932 expert on drainage of marshes, more than ten patents on
                    machines
                    > and ways of drainage of marshes, lived in Dmitrovo, worked at the
                    > Moscow Marsh station of the Byelorussia institute of land
                    > improvement.
                    >
                    > Ridiger Fiodor Vassilievich, 1783-1856. From Courland nobility.
                    > Count. Cavalry general (1831). General - adjudant (1831). Wife
                    Louise
                    > Carlova Fircs. Had no children. Title was legally assumed by his
                    > nephew, Staff-captain of the Guard mounted grenadiers regiment,
                    > Fiodor Germanovich Ridiger.
                    >
                    > http://www.vgd.ru/fraim.htm
                    >
                    > The Tsar had the power to grant hereditary titles. These usually
                    went
                    > to men who had achieved high rank in the armed forces and the civil
                    > service. It 1900 it was estimated that there were about 1.8 million
                    > members of the nobility in Russia.
                    >
                    > "The nobility has never been a cliquey class. Everybody who was
                    > honest and daring, who did nor spare oneself for commonweal who was
                    > loyal to Tsar and Russia had a fair chance to be ennobled. The
                    desire
                    > to become a nobleman empowered a lot of people to do their best.
                    What
                    > a pity that at present our motherland can not use this strongest
                    > incentive!"
                    >
                    > http://www.rds.org.ru/eng/address.htm
                    >
                    > WHO WAS NOBLE IN RUSSIA AT THE END OF THE EMPRIE?
                    >
                    > Anybody who could fulfil one of the following criteria was
                    considered
                    > noble, thus any person:
                    > • who was a direct and legitimate descendant of an individual
                    > who possessed hereditary nobility and who was thus inscribed in one
                    > of the six parts of the Registers of the Nobility of a government
                    > (see below);
                    > • who had been ennobled by Letters Patent of the Emperor, which
                    > entailed inscription in the 1st part of the Registers of the
                    Nobility;
                    > • who had obtained in active service (and not at the time of
                    > retirement), one of the grades in the Table of Ranks that entailed
                    > ipso facto admission to the hereditary nobility:
                    > in the army: colonel (6th grade)
                    > in the navy: captain 1st rank (6th grade)
                    > in the civil service: acting state councillor (4th grade)
                    >
                    > In the first two instances, ennoblement entailed inscription in the
                    > 2nd part (nobility acquired through military service) of the
                    > Registers of the Nobility; in the third, inscription in the 3rd
                    part
                    > (nobility acquired through civil service).
                    > • who was awarded the first class (grand cross) of one of the
                    > following four Imperial Orders:
                    > Saint Alexander Nevsky
                    > The White Eagle
                    > Saint Anne
                    > Saint Stanislas
                    >
                    > • who was awarded one of the four classes of the Order of Saint
                    > George or the Order of Saint Vladimir 1st, 2nd or 3rd class (the
                    4th
                    > class of the latter since 1900 brought with it only personal
                    > nobility). Ennoblement through reception of the Order of Saint
                    George
                    > entailed inscription in the 2nd part of the Registers of the
                    > Nobility, and that of the Order of Saint Vladimir, in the 2nd or
                    3rd
                    > part according to the functions, military or civil, of the grantee.
                    > • who was a son and grandson (not one or the other) of a person
                    > who had enjoyed personal nobility for a minimum of twenty years. In
                    > this instance, and on condition of having reached the age of
                    > seventeen and of being in the army or civil service, the individual
                    > in question could ask the Emperor to grant him Letters Patent of
                    > hereditary nobility. The latter, after having examined the dossier
                    > and opinion of the Senate, could accept or reject the claim; in
                    other
                    > words, this type of ennoblement was in no way automatic.
                    > Depending on the military or civil services rendered by the
                    ancestors
                    > of the candidate, he would be inscribed in the 2nd or 3rd (not the
                    > 1st) part of the Registers of the Nobility.
                    >
                    > Lastly, it should be noted that when a woman who was not of noble
                    > birth married a Russian nobleman, she acquired for herself, by her
                    > marriage, hereditary nobility.
                    >
                    > Personal nobility was acquired by obtaining the rank of cornet in
                    the
                    > armed forces and that of midshipman (michman) in the navy (12th and
                    > 10th grades respectively),* and the rank of titular councillor in
                    the
                    > civil service (9th class). It was also accorded, since 1900, to
                    > persons decorated with the 4th class of the Order of Saint
                    Vladimir,
                    > which had previously conferred hereditary nobility. The wife of a
                    > nobleman acquired ad personam the same quality, but their children
                    > only had the right to the qualification of hereditary honorary
                    > citizen.
                    > *Gmeline, in the original has "l'épaulette d'aspirant dans l'armée
                    de
                    > terre, celle d'enseigne de vaisseau dans la marine (13e et 11e
                    > classe). At the time of the Revolution, however, the 13th and 11th
                    > ranks in these services were vacant. The 11th rank had only ever
                    been
                    > used in the navy for the grade of "secretary of naval
                    constructions"
                    > and had been suppressed as early as 1732 (it had become a civil
                    rank
                    > after that but only lasted until c. 1834). In the army, the 13th
                    rank
                    > had also been suppressed since 1884 and was only used in times of
                    war
                    > with the grade of ensign (praporshchik).
                    >
                    > Prior to this, hereditary nobility had been acquired on attaining
                    the
                    > 14th grade in the armed forces and the 8th grade in the civil
                    > service. The Emperor Nicholas I, in an attempt to render this
                    process
                    > more difficult, issued an Imperial Ukase in 1845 whereby only
                    > personal nobility was granted to any person who reached the rank of
                    > ensign (praporshchik) in the army (14th grade) or that of titular
                    > councillor in the civil service (9th grade). Hereditary nobility,
                    > which in reality was the only one that counted for without it one
                    > could not call oneself a gentleman, belonged only to those officers
                    > who now attained the rank of lieutenant colonel (7th grade) or
                    civil
                    > servants with the rank of state councillor (5th grade). Nicholas I
                    > also introduced into the Table of Ranks a hierarchy for the
                    servants
                    > of the Department of Mines and for university students.
                    >
                    > http://www.geocities.com/tfboettger/russian/noble.htm
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John R. Shaw"
                    > <vrevjrs@e...> wrote:
                    > > Paul Tiajoloff wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > If someone goes against the principals of thier heredity they
                    > cease
                    > > > to belong to it. Therefore to say that Lenin is/was a nobleman
                    > is a
                    > > > gross insult to those who suffered for their Tsar, their
                    country
                    > and
                    > > > its culture. By his behavior we see that he was not very
                    noble.
                    > If
                    > > > he was entitled to certain rights and privleges he betrayed his
                    > duty.
                    > >
                    > > JRS: Nevertheless, this is the first I ever heard that Lenin
                    was "a
                    > > nobleman".
                    > >
                    > > >From all accounts I've encountered up to now, he came of a
                    middle
                    > class
                    > > family.
                    > >
                    > > However, I heard, as I recall on a TV documentary, a recording of
                    > his
                    > > voice, in which he was attacking "the power of the Tsar, of the
                    > > pomeschiks [landed gentry]" and other such upper classes. His
                    voice
                    > was
                    > > bitter, full of hate (as borne out by what others say of him).
                    > >
                    > > So, if that's nobility, it's hardly elevating.
                    > >
                    > > In Christ
                    > > Fr. John R. Shaw
                  • michael nikitin
                    It is no coincidence or wonder that he was elected Patriarch just in time for the changes in Russia. A calculated move. Michael N On May, 3, 1990, elected as
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jan 16, 2004
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                      It is no coincidence or wonder that he was elected Patriarch
                      just in time for the changes in Russia. A calculated move.

                      Michael N


                      On May, 3, 1990, elected as Patriarch of Moscow and all Russia.

                      vkozyreff <vladimir.kozyreff@...> wrote:
                      Dear List,

                      We know that the Russian nobility of German origin provided some of
                      the best and most faithful servants of Russia. Some of those families
                      were defeated twice at Tannenberg. In July 15, 1410, when the battle
                      marked the end of the Teutonic knights power in the region, and on 22-
                      30 August 1914, when they had become Russian and fought bravely
                      against Germany.

                      Glory to them. I have the honour of knowing a few of their
                      descendents, who are among the best Russian patriots that I know.

                      For that reason however, having origins linked to the Deutsche
                      Ritterorden, being noble and having made a career in the Soviet Union
                      is never a good reference. It just aggaravates the case.

                      The regime conceded a career only to the most secure and checked
                      (provieriannie) individuals, especially in the church. The demanded
                      faithfulness guarantees to the regime, which endeavoured at
                      destroying the Faith, were directly proportional in quality to the
                      potentially negative factors in the candidate's background, such as
                      noble origin or a known practicing Christian family background.

                      The guarantees were even more substantial if the candidate was
                      allowed to have a lightning-fast career, as is the case for Alexis
                      II.

                      The guarantees had to be even clearer during the Khruschev years,
                      known as the second wave of persecutions against the Church.

                      "..in the years of the so-called Khruschev's Thaw, the Church was
                      again subjected to persecution, for within a few years about 7
                      thousand parishes, which reopened during and after the year, were
                      closed". (Sept. 1953-Oct. 14, 1964)

                      http://www.russian-orthodox-church.org.ru/ne208261.htm

                      "� In a speech at Dahlgren Chapel at Georgetown University in 1991,
                      Aleksy said that he consciously choose to serve his Church while
                      exercising a compliant manner toward the state because it was a time
                      when the "black-raven car" of the secret police frequently arrived in
                      front of the house of many priests. It is quite likely that Aleksy's
                      service to the Soviet Union not only allowed him to escape the fear
                      of the black-raven car arriving at his house, but also to know
                      exactly whose house the car was headed before it got there".

                      http://www.episcopalian.org/rmn/ANEDITOR.htm

                      Summary of Patriarch Alexis II brilliant career

                      In 1947 entered the Leningrad theological seminary, in 1949 the
                      Spiritual academy.

                      In 1950 deacon, priest, rector of the Epiphany church in the city of
                      Jyhvy.

                      In 1957, is transferred from the rectory of the Dormition church to
                      the Tartu cathedral.

                      Since 1959 - archpriest, honourable citizen of the Tartu -
                      Viljandinsky districts.

                      On March, 3, 1961, received as a monk, in August of the same year,
                      became bishop of Tallinn and Estonia, in 1964 - archbishop.

                      Since December, 22, 1964 - administrative director of the Moscow
                      patriarchy, permanent member of the Synod.

                      In 1968 - metropolitan.

                      In 1986, headed the Leningrad and Novgorod faculty.

                      In 1989, People's Deputy of the USSR.

                      On May, 3, 1990, elected as Patriarch of Moscow and all Russia.

                      Doctor of church history, doctor of theololgy of foreign educational
                      institutions, full member of the Academy of education of the Russian
                      Federation, professor honoris causa of the Russian Academy of
                      Sciences, knight of the highest church orders, recipient of many
                      state awards of Russia and foreign states.

                      http://www.izvestia.ru/person/article27596





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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • vkozyreff
                      Dear Paul, The guarantees that I am talking about are guarantees, demanded by the regime, to show that the candidate careerist has completely betrayed his
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jan 16, 2004
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                        Dear Paul,

                        The "guarantees" that I am talking about are guarantees, demanded by
                        the regime, to show that the candidate careerist has completely
                        betrayed his background in a way that allowed no return. A traitor
                        is a useful collaborator, because he can infiltrate the enemies of
                        the regime, can be destroyed by the latter at any moment, and will
                        tend to justify his behaviour to himself out of subconscious remorse
                        and loss of self-esteem.

                        Guarantees were for instance giving friends or relatives to their
                        death at the hands of the authorities, actively participating in the
                        destruction of churches, liquidation of priests or believers,
                        discrediting or distorting the faith, convincing others to betray,
                        etc. Shortly, any crime that showed complete submission of the
                        candidate to the regime and his abandoning any faith in God, human
                        dignity or sense of honour.

                        This is what was demanded from people with a noble background. In
                        conclusion, and in principle, the Soviet citizens with a career that
                        claim to be noble either are not or are traitors of the worst
                        imaginable kind. For a Russian Patriarch, mentioning his nobility is
                        particularly inappropriate, but it is not surprising on the part of
                        an (ex-)Soviet Patriarch.

                        The identified nobles that did survive without becoming traitors
                        were carefully and skilfully deprived of any education, name,
                        memory, culture and of any means to pass over any spiritual heritage
                        to their descendents. Parents who at some time did know their origin
                        destroyed all traces of it, so that their children never knew
                        anything about it, so they had a chance to survive. In conclusion,
                        the real nobles in Russia are to be found among people that were
                        actively stupidified, made vulgar and ignorant for a couple of
                        generations. They do not bear any noble family name, as the latter
                        identified them and was just a condemnation to death.

                        In the present time, it is not surprising that many ex-Soviet
                        Russians claim to be noble. They think that nobility is about being
                        rich, talking about genealogy, attending balls, reclaiming
                        confiscated properties, wearing self-awarded medals, belonging to
                        the nobility association and being superior to all.

                        They do not understanding that nobility is about serving God, the
                        Tsar, the country and the people, being worthy of their past, giving
                        one's blood or life, not complaining, not claiming honours or
                        privileges, not mentioning a status, defending the weak, being
                        modest and being more demanding to oneself than to the others.

                        When I say that Lenin was a nobleman, I just refer to his belonging
                        to the Russian nobility, which seems to be a fact, even if he
                        betrayed it and had no noble behaviour.

                        The Tsar could deprive a person from his nobility if the latter
                        behaved in a particularly reprehensible way.

                        In God,

                        Vladimir Kozyreff





                        --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "tiajaia" <tiajaia@n...>
                        wrote:
                        > VK,
                        >
                        > Being of noble birth confers responsibily. There is no guarantee
                        > that one will live up to those responsibilities. Likewise being
                        of
                        > low birth does not confer saintliness, although it may be easier
                        for
                        > those of low birth to attain the Kingdom of Heaven than it would
                        be
                        > for those elevated in society to avoid the temptations that power
                        > offers.
                        >
                        > If someone goes against the principals of thier heredity they
                        cease
                        > to belong to it. Therefore to say that Lenin is/was a nobleman is
                        a
                        > gross insult to those who suffered for their Tsar, their country
                        and
                        > its culture. By his behavior we see that he was not very noble.
                        If
                        > he was entitled to certain rights and privleges he betrayed his
                        duty.
                        >
                        > Paul
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "vkozyreff"
                        > <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
                        > > Dear List,
                        > >
                        > > Lenin too was a nobleman.
                      • All-Merciful Saviour Monastery
                        Dear Reader John, Placing ( ) around your name is incorrect. Only monastics separate their sir names in such a manner. If you are indeed a monastic, you
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jan 18, 2004
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                          Dear Reader John,

                          Placing ( ) around your name is incorrect. Only monastics separate their
                          sir names in such a manner. If you are indeed a monastic, you would not
                          call yourself "Reader."

                          Blessings,

                          Hieromonk Tryphon
                        • podnoss
                          I ve read better writers, but not many. Thank you. ... by ... remorse ... the ... that ... is ... heritage ... origin ... giving ... is
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jan 18, 2004
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                            I've read better writers, but not many. Thank you.










                            --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "vkozyreff"
                            <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
                            > Dear Paul,
                            >
                            > The "guarantees" that I am talking about are guarantees, demanded
                            by
                            > the regime, to show that the candidate careerist has completely
                            > betrayed his background in a way that allowed no return. A traitor
                            > is a useful collaborator, because he can infiltrate the enemies of
                            > the regime, can be destroyed by the latter at any moment, and will
                            > tend to justify his behaviour to himself out of subconscious
                            remorse
                            > and loss of self-esteem.
                            >
                            > Guarantees were for instance giving friends or relatives to their
                            > death at the hands of the authorities, actively participating in
                            the
                            > destruction of churches, liquidation of priests or believers,
                            > discrediting or distorting the faith, convincing others to betray,
                            > etc. Shortly, any crime that showed complete submission of the
                            > candidate to the regime and his abandoning any faith in God, human
                            > dignity or sense of honour.
                            >
                            > This is what was demanded from people with a noble background. In
                            > conclusion, and in principle, the Soviet citizens with a career
                            that
                            > claim to be noble either are not or are traitors of the worst
                            > imaginable kind. For a Russian Patriarch, mentioning his nobility
                            is
                            > particularly inappropriate, but it is not surprising on the part of
                            > an (ex-)Soviet Patriarch.
                            >
                            > The identified nobles that did survive without becoming traitors
                            > were carefully and skilfully deprived of any education, name,
                            > memory, culture and of any means to pass over any spiritual
                            heritage
                            > to their descendents. Parents who at some time did know their
                            origin
                            > destroyed all traces of it, so that their children never knew
                            > anything about it, so they had a chance to survive. In conclusion,
                            > the real nobles in Russia are to be found among people that were
                            > actively stupidified, made vulgar and ignorant for a couple of
                            > generations. They do not bear any noble family name, as the latter
                            > identified them and was just a condemnation to death.
                            >
                            > In the present time, it is not surprising that many ex-Soviet
                            > Russians claim to be noble. They think that nobility is about being
                            > rich, talking about genealogy, attending balls, reclaiming
                            > confiscated properties, wearing self-awarded medals, belonging to
                            > the nobility association and being superior to all.
                            >
                            > They do not understanding that nobility is about serving God, the
                            > Tsar, the country and the people, being worthy of their past,
                            giving
                            > one's blood or life, not complaining, not claiming honours or
                            > privileges, not mentioning a status, defending the weak, being
                            > modest and being more demanding to oneself than to the others.
                            >
                            > When I say that Lenin was a nobleman, I just refer to his belonging
                            > to the Russian nobility, which seems to be a fact, even if he
                            > betrayed it and had no noble behaviour.
                            >
                            > The Tsar could deprive a person from his nobility if the latter
                            > behaved in a particularly reprehensible way.
                            >
                            > In God,
                            >
                            > Vladimir Kozyreff
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "tiajaia" <tiajaia@n...>
                            > wrote:
                            > > VK,
                            > >
                            > > Being of noble birth confers responsibily. There is no guarantee
                            > > that one will live up to those responsibilities. Likewise being
                            > of
                            > > low birth does not confer saintliness, although it may be easier
                            > for
                            > > those of low birth to attain the Kingdom of Heaven than it would
                            > be
                            > > for those elevated in society to avoid the temptations that power
                            > > offers.
                            > >
                            > > If someone goes against the principals of thier heredity they
                            > cease
                            > > to belong to it. Therefore to say that Lenin is/was a nobleman
                            is
                            > a
                            > > gross insult to those who suffered for their Tsar, their country
                            > and
                            > > its culture. By his behavior we see that he was not very noble.
                            > If
                            > > he was entitled to certain rights and privleges he betrayed his
                            > duty.
                            > >
                            > > Paul
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "vkozyreff"
                            > > <vladimir.kozyreff@s...> wrote:
                            > > > Dear List,
                            > > >
                            > > > Lenin too was a nobleman.
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