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7553Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: Mixed marriages [was:Esphigmenou monks extremists?}

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  • Rev. Sergei Overt
    Feb 1, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      I want to add that, I have more than one Mixed Marriage Un- Mixed!
      I just realized when writing this!
      Slava Bogu.
      Glory to God!
      Fr. S.
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Rev. Sergei Overt" <frsovert@...>
      To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 3:46 AM
      Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: Mixed marriages [was:Esphigmenou monks
      extremists?}


      > Thank you Fr. John. You explained it so well.
      > You might add that the converts from the mixed marriage
      > might have been received into the Church(Orthodoxy) at times by
      Chrismation
      > "according to the Trebnik" as Metroplitan Vitaly, then my diocesan bishop,
      > had instructed me once!
      > I have an older couple where the non-Orthodox spouse was received many
      > years ago by one of the elderly Russian priests here by what I can make
      out
      > as the "3-rd rite",Confession and Communion. The children (who are now
      > grown)were all baptized Orthodox of course.
      >
      > Fr. S.
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Fr. John R. Shaw" <vrevjrs@...>
      > To: <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>; <orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 2:33 PM
      > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: Mixed marriages [was:Esphigmenou monks
      > extremists?}
      >
      >
      > > Fr. Gregory Williams wrote:
      > >
      > > > "We" in ROCOR, if it includes me (and a
      > > > significant number of others) do _not_ bestow the Church's blessing
      > > upon
      > > > unions between Orthodox Christians and heretics of any variety. Such
      > > unions
      > > > are quite explicitly and vehemently forbidden by the Church, frequent
      > > > "economies" in the present-day notwithstanding (see "Does the Orthodox
      > > > Church Permit Mixed Marriages", Living Orthodoxy, vol. XI #2, for
      > > pertinent
      > > > canonical and other citations).
      > >
      > > Two points regarding the above:
      > >
      > > 1) Monks normally do not perform marriages, except if they are bishops,
      > > or assigned to a parish; and, since women and female animals are not
      > > allowed on Mt. Athos, there is no way there could be "mixed (or other)
      > > marriages" at Esphigmenou.
      > >
      > > 2) While of course there can be arguments offered against mixed
      > > marriages, nevertheless, the Orthodox Church *does* permit them. At
      > > least, the Church permits them if one accepts the authority of the
      > > Russian Church, and of all the other Local Churches, instead of merely
      > > citing Canons that refer to ancient heretics and situations in a
      > > predominantly Orthodox society.
      > >
      > > At the present time, and especially in America, for a priest to refuse
      > > to perform a mixed marriage (even though the Church does permit it),
      > > the result usually is one of the following:
      > >
      > > a) The couple simply *go to another, usually non-Orthodox, church*,
      > > where the marriage takes place -- and where the children will now
      > > probably be baptized and raised.
      > >
      > > b) The non-Orthodox partner *converts, but insincerely*, merely so that
      > > the ceremony can go ahead. Usually, this has a negative impact on the
      > > individual, who might become a lukewarm parishioner, but often never
      > > sets foot in the door again and has no further interest in Orthodoxy.
      > >
      > > c) In one or two cases I have heard of, it was possible to persuade the
      > > Orthodox would-be partner to *break off the engagement*; but this in
      > > turn resulted in a lasting resentment which undermined that person's
      > > commitment to the Church.
      > >
      > > Yes, *sometimes* there are "good" conversions to Orthodoxy as a result
      > > of a priest insisting on "baptizing" the non-Orthodox party. But one
      > > cannot count on this, and I have known of many lasting and sincere
      > > conversions that came about years after the "mixed marriage" was
      > > blessed by the Church.
      > >
      > > In Christ
      > > Fr. John R. Shaw
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
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      > >
      > >
      > >
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