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7272Re: TELLING THE TRUTH IS DANGEROUS...

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  • vkozyreff <vladimir.kozyreff@skynet.be>
    Jan 1, 2003
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      Dear father Stefan, bless.

      You write:

      "Metropolitan Vitaly retired and a new Metropolitan was duly elected
      and enthroned. At the present time even his own loyal clergy admit
      that he (Metropolitan Vitaly)is under the control of Ludmilla
      Rasnianskaya, who had during his actual reign as head of the Church
      controlled access to him and controlled correspondence with him. She
      also attempted to hide, cover up and diminish the extent of his
      dementia".

      1. Do you remember that Vl Vitaly was forcefully taken by police (a
      woman police officer) that went to the altar to take him by force for
      a psychiatric examination and that the medical conclusion was that Vl
      Vitaly was sane and able to perform his duties of first hierarch?

      2. Do you forget that L Rosnyanskaya was sent to Vl Vitaly by the NY
      Synod with the mission to take control over him and to try to take
      him back to NY under the control of the NY Synod. Is this not
      frightful, to sin in the name of the truth? Is this not sergianism?

      You write:

      "Bishop Varnava was censured, then he was deposed by the Synod of
      Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia. Metropolitan
      Vitaly had no individual power or privileged to reinstate Varnava".

      The deposition of Vl Varnava cannot be taken seriously by any
      informed orthodox, knowing that he was judged and condemned without
      hearing, on the basis of irrelevant canons in a way that would
      horrify any person who knows anything about canons, and knowing that
      he was condemned a second time for sins that had already been judged
      and pardoned.

      It is obvious that the real reason for which he was "deposed" was to
      prevent him from resisting the new path order in the ROCOR. In
      conclusion, an orthodox who perceives things as explained above
      cannot accept the deposition as valid and cannot be convinced by mere
      statements to the contrary. Christians are taught to beware of false
      prophets and false teachings and to exert their capacity to identify
      them.

      You write:

      "Not celebrating the Divine Liturgy, but merely attending the
      service, retired "na pokoe" Metropolitan Vitaly witnesses the single
      handed consecration of archimandrite Sergious by deposed monk
      Varnava. Varnava and Archimandrite (non-bishop) Sergious then
      consecrate renegade monk Vladimir. Therefore without prejudicial
      reasoning, poisoning of the well, straw man fallacy, assumed minor,
      non sequitur, circular reasoning or ad hominem; Vladimir IS NOT a
      Bishop!"

      You attempt here to show that using fallacies can lead to the truth.
      This is a kind of intellectual sergianism.

      We all agree that the situation in which we live is very abnormal.
      Who would have predicted that respected priests in the ROCOR would
      promote ecumenism and sergianism?

      Between the abnormality of a group that
      ·claim to follow the tradition of the ROCOR,
      ·show so little ability to convince that it has not taken a new path,
      ·condemn without hearing,
      ·attempt to make its point by recurrent use of fallacies (as
      abundantly shown on this forum),
      ·compare the Church to an army, not to a group united in the love of
      Christ to glorify the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit,
      ·ignore the conciliar traditions of orthodoxy,
      ·promote ecumenism and sergianism on this very site,
      ·use insult and mockery in order to discredit its opponents,
      ·insist on obedience to a bishop at the expense of the purity of the
      faith
      ·keep on repeating disinformation. (Here again about "renegade monk
      Vladimir". Please see post 6629 « Fr. Alexander Lebedeff wrote : "A
      renegade monk from Jordanville, who ran away spouting lies and
      vitriol against the monastery he had been tonsured in -- now he is
      a "bishop". I learned that Bishop Vladimir did not run away from
      Jordanville. He was given a monastic release by Archbishop Laurus to
      leave the monastery".

      and other abnormalities in a group that was expelled from the ROCOR
      against its will, because they chose to obey Christ before a bishop
      canonically accused of serious mistakes against the Faith,

      Many informed believers of good will chose the latter.

      Dear Father Stefan, if you want to show the veracity of your
      statements, please show evidence.

      In Christ,

      Vladimir Kozyreff

      The Church is a "unity, not based on a rationalistic science or an
      arbitrary convention, but on the moral law of mutual love and prayer,
      a unity where, in spite of the hierarchical graduation of sacramental
      functions, no one is enslaved, but where all equally are called to be
      participants and co-operators of the common work, in short a unity by
      the grace of God and not by a human institution: such is the unity of
      the Church."



      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "stefanvpavlenko
      <StefanVPavlenko@n...>" <StefanVPavlenko@n...> wrote:
      > > - vl. Vladimir is not able to say a word because Met. Vitaly is
      not
      > > ruling
      > > ("straw man" fallacy, assumed major)
      > >
      >
      > Metropolitan Vitaly's health was deteriorating for a number of years
      > prior to his personal verbal and written requests to be allowed to
      > retire "na pokoi". Metropolitan Vitaly retired and a new
      Metropolitan
      > was duly elected and enthroned. At the present time even his own
      loyal
      > clergy admit that he (Metropolitan Vitaly)is under the control of
      > Ludmilla Rasnianskaya, who had during his actual reign as head of
      the
      > Church controlled access to him and controlled correspondence with
      > him. She also attempted to hide, cover up and diminish the extent of
      > his dementia.
      >
      >
      > > - vl. Varnava is a game player
      > > (ad hominem + poisoning the well, prejudicial reasoning)
      >
      >
      > Bishop Varnava was censured, then he was deposed by the Synod of
      > Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia. Metropolitan
      > Vitaly had no individual power or privileged to reinstate Varnava.
      >
      >
      >
      > >
      > > - vl. Vladimir is not a bishop because he is "so called (vl.)
      > > Vladimir"
      > > (assumed minor, non sequitur, circular reasoning)
      >
      > Not celebrating the Divine Liturgy, but merely attending the
      service,
      > retired "na pokoe" Metropolitan Vitaly witnesses the single handed
      > consecration of archimandrite Sergious by deposed monk Varnava.
      > Varnava and Archimandrite (non-bishop) Sergious then consecrate
      > renegade monk Vladimir. Therefore without prejudicial reasoning,
      > poisoning of the well, straw man fallacy, assumed minor, non
      sequitur,
      > circular reasoning or ad hominem; Vladimir IS NOT a Bishop!
      >
      >
      > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
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