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2553Re: [orthodox-synod] Troparia for Fathers of First Six Ecumenical Councils and Damnation

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  • Sandra Thompson
    Jul 31, 2000
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      Personally, I fear God too much to say such things.
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Dionysios <stylite1@...>
      To: <orthodox-synod@egroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 6:44 PM
      Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Troparia for Fathers of First Six Ecumenical
      Councils and Damnation


      > Remember, it was "not just anyone" this is our church.
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Sandra Thompson
      > To: orthodox-synod@egroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 12:53 PM
      > Subject: Re: [orthodox-synod] Troparia for Fathers of First Six
      Ecumenical Councils and Damnation
      >
      >
      > I cannot understand how anyone can say who is in hell. Even Jesus said
      > Judas is in his own place, he did not say in hell. I have always been
      > afraid that if we say a person or a class of people are in hell, we are
      thus
      > condemning ourselves.
      >
      >
      > Message -----
      > From: Daniel Lieuwen <lieuwen@...-labs.com>
      > To: <orthodox-synod@egroups.com>
      > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2000 9:36 AM
      > Subject: [orthodox-synod] Troparia for Fathers of First Six Ecumenical
      > Councils and Damnation
      >
      >
      > > What really stuck out this weekend was one of the troparia which we
      sung
      > > last night and this morning:
      > >
      > > The mindless Arius, showing himself to be a servant of a created
      being,
      > > and Macedonius, likewise revealed as abominable,
      > > are equally tormented in the fire of Gehenna with the Hellenes.
      > >
      > > There are very few direct statements in the liturgical texts about who
      is
      > in
      > > hell,
      > > although many more in heaven (all the canonized saints are by virtue
      of
      > > their
      > > canonization known to be in heaven--they would not have been canonized
      > > otherwise). This is only the second such troparia that I know of.
      The
      > > other
      > > says that Arius is tormented with the Hagarenes. Note that while
      classes
      > of
      > > people are mentioned, individuals (other than Arius and Macedonius)
      are
      > > not. I do not know of any other individuals specifically listed among
      the
      > > damned.
      > > This shows how extraordinarily seriously the church took these
      heresies
      > that
      > > attacked
      > > the divinity of the Son and the Spirit. Even great persecuters are
      not
      > > mentioned
      > > liturgically. I heard that an iconographer (in the free world)
      > > put Stalin in his depiction of hell--and was
      > > told he must remove it because we do not know who is in hell. (Stalin
      > > certainly
      > > seems likely, even if we cannot say with certainty, I must say).
      > >
      > > Am I missing other cases of people liturgically mentioned as in
      > > Gehenna?
      > >
      > > Under the mercy,
      > >
      > > Daniel
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > This mailing list's archives are at
      > http://www.egroups.com/group/orthodox-synod
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
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      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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