Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

18323Re: The Vanishing Russians Parts I-III: What Responsibility Has the MP Taken?

Expand Messages
  • Mike Woodson
    Nov 1, 2006
      Dear Rev. Fr. John Shaw:

      Please see responses to your representations below each of them.


      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John R. Shaw"
      <vrevjrs@...> wrote:
      > --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Woodson"
      <singingmountains@>
      > wrote:
      >
      > Fr. John Shaw suggested that because the woman reporter who wrote
      > the LA Times series was named "Kim Murphy" that was somehow
      > suspicious. He also assumed that because she was not Orthodox, she
      > might not know anything about the Church. Well, you don't have to
      > know much about the Church to report on the realities in Russia.
      >
      > JRS: You don't have to know anything about the Orthodox faith, or
      > about the history of the Balkans, or even the details of current
      > events there, to "report on the realities of Serbia":
      > for years, Western journalists demonized the Serbs.

      Rather than engaging in false analogies with the Clinton
      Administration's internationalist era, and absolutizing ALL Serbs as
      angelic beings with no responsibility for what they've done in Europe
      and the Balkans, and, sliming ALL Western journalists in general, why
      don't we put the absolutizing of human behavior aside and turn off the
      fog machine. Also, let's not engage in dueling hypocrisies of extreme
      claims, either. To do my part, I'll keep citing hard data, since I'm
      not a clairovoyant.

      > They produced a huge body of "information" about "Serbian
      > aggression", enough to fill a library.

      There's no doubt in my mind that some journalists and some powerful
      media corporations reported a much exaggerated death count which was
      used as a pretext to accuse the Serbs of a genocide campaign and in
      part, justify the bombing campaigns. (I'm so glad that the government
      that used that information wrongly, to the extent that it did, is not
      interweaving itself with the Orthodox Church, or vice versa.)

      The L.A. Times, however, put a reporter on the ground who made
      contrary reports as to the exaggerations. That is the same publication
      reporting on the Russian people's blight now. I remember citing the
      Times in some letters written to a national news outlet, encouraging
      its investigative reporter to check into the figures, and also to do
      an expose on the drug-running, terrorist infiltrated Kosovo Liberation
      Army. It was done, and that was the beginning of the wider media
      exposure of the KLA as a drug-running organization in Europe with ties
      to the Afghan Mujahadeen. Also, K-FOR and authorities have been
      putting KLA members on trial as well. Having said that, I'll just bet
      you there are some naive Kosovar teenagers just waiting to please
      their elders and join the KLA, just as there were many misguided young
      folks who marched to the drum of the KGB etc. etc.. Well, wait a
      minute, one of them's . . . President of Russia! What do you know? And
      that comrade Castro, he's just a teddy bear of a leader. And how can
      you hate Kim? He hasn't even got a competent barber.

      > It has even generated propaganda movies disguised as "action films",
      > and a Saturday morning children's show called "Bosnia 101", aimed at
      > teaching children to hate the Serbs.

      Actually, I saw one such movie with American actor Dennis Quaid in it;
      he played a mercenary sniper. It wasn't an action movie, but a drama
      with action that showed the human suffering caused by the action. And
      it showed the suffering on both sides. It showed Muslim militants
      lining up Serb women, children and old folks in a river, and killing
      them in front of one another using digging tools, sledge hammers and
      other instruments of torture when used against a person. It made it
      clear how those atrocities provoked the Serb warriors.

      But you know something? I've also seen the stories of English kings
      subjugating the Scotsmen, American colonists and the Irish. I've seen
      the stories and histories of the raping, pillaging and atrocity. And
      then, I saw it in the American Civil War, perhaps as brutal a war as
      any of them, ever, considering the lack of medical care. And, I've
      read and seen accounts of the horrible chem warfare and human wave
      trench warfare of WWI. And the Normandy invasion, and the campaigns in
      the Pacific against the fascists, and so on. But I don't see Scotsmen
      waging a war for all time against the English. I don't see the Irish
      forever warring against the English. America is not warring against
      Britain. Not even the American South is gearing up to do terrorist
      acts in the North. And, the allies aren't doing terrorists acts or
      "ethnic cleansing" of the Germans for their past transgressions in the
      World Wars, and the massive suffering of those two World Wars. We've
      let it go.

      But not the Muslims and Serbs. They just keep at it and at it and at
      it. And there's this thing against the Jews -- the Jews this, and the
      Jews that -- constant talk of the Jewish conspiracies just keeps on
      circulating in Russia. And, many Jews, feeling justified, reciprocate,
      attacking the Christian faith. This is all human conflict at many
      different levels that just keep rewinding and replaying. You've got to
      step back at some point and let it go. It's just stupid and doesn't do
      anybody a darn bit of good.

      The central question in all of this seems to be: how do the people
      deal with sin, fellow sinners and with overcoming passions? Is there a
      spiritual light for them to follow in that land and in authority?

      Nationalism will simply bury those questions and go after the same
      solutions ad nauseum.

      > But it was all false. And it cost thousands of innocent people their
      > lives.

      Whenever someone says "all" or "never" even our elementary school
      teachers told us to watch out. Those answers are almost always wrong,
      with the very rare exception. Why? Because the only absolute is God,
      Who Is the Absolute Truth, and Absolutely Good.

      Not even the devil is an absolute being, because it can't be as evil
      as God Is Good. It can't be infinitely evil as God Is infinitely Good.

      So when you apply absolutizing statements to the wars and conflicts of
      men, it shows either a case of naivete, denial, or intentional
      idolatry of some group of men or nation or another, and that
      displeased God who taught us that we shall have no god before Him.

      Also, if you are saying that the entire Western press gets it all
      wrong, or, are in a massive conspiracy against the Serbs and Russians,
      that would have to be some kind of conspiracy such that all of the
      Orthodox Christian journalists wouldn't just quit corresponding with
      their Western counterparts to report what was going on. The way you
      talk, we can't rely on anything from the Western press. And yet they
      covered Katrina, a self-critical coverage from the nationalist
      perspective, very well. Wouldn't have happened in Russia today.

      This is why those of us who have been at the receiving end of the MP's
      propaganda understand the reason why the MP keeps repeating the lie
      that this is about "reconciliation" or "unity" with the Russian
      Church, so that it can make itself synonymous with the Russian Church
      without repenting for what it is doing to that Church and to that
      people. The MP/RF wants every person who disagrees with the lifting of
      the suspension of communion with the local Russian Church **under the
      Moscow Patriarchate's unrepentant authority**, to appear to be against
      unity with the Russian Church herself, or her people, which is a
      bold-faced lie.

      The Moscow Patriarchate is a spiritually sick institution. If it were
      not, there would be no reason to pretend that the ROCOR's Bishops, or,
      the narrower authority of the Synod, where all the Bishops of the
      ROCOR inconveniently disagree with Moscow, should have their own
      administrative authority. Well, they won't, but there would be no
      reason to pretend they will.

      You see, the Moscow Patriarchate will be able to add parishes to the
      ROCOR over time and man them, while halting ROCOR initiated growth
      using its confirmation and agreement power. And these will change the
      balance of the authority away from the Outside Russia hierarchy to an
      inside Russia control, if it has not already been achieved. They can
      pack the court, so to speak. Also, the ROCOR can't make additions of
      parishes, as I understand it, without MP confirmation and agreement.
      So the MP can stifle ROCOR directed parish openings while expanding
      Moscow-directed parish openings abroad. I see no restriction on that
      written in at present, and there appear to be many weasel words in the
      Act of Canonical Communion document allowing a reversal of most
      everything granted. For example, "of a Canonical character," etc.

      So it is an end run, even as campaigns of internal influence and
      control have been ongoing for some time now with the goal of turning
      the ROCOR towards legitimizing the Soviet era leadership of the new
      secular authoritarian Russia.

      > There is also a huge realm of misleading writings about the Orthodox
      > Church, claiming that Orthodoxy "broke away from Rome", and once
      > again one could fill a library with such "learned information".
      > But it isn't the truth.

      That misleading information exists on one topic, does not mean that
      misleading information on another topic follows. This analogy has no
      real nexus between those who claimed the Orthodox Church broke from
      Rome, with those who say the Moscow Patriarchy is corrupt with
      Sovietized officials in the new Authoritarianism that neglects
      Russians to death.

      Putin's image gives Russians the wrong pride. He is the disciplined,
      Judo master Soviet super-hero image-man. The ex-KGB soldier-statesman
      for the Soviet, uh I mean, Russian state. But it is just an image, and
      the leadership he has provided has once again moved toward dictatorial
      control and away from investment in the Russian nation; towards
      corruption and away from Christ. You see, if you control people so
      that they never complain about dying off from all manner of
      negligence, leadership vacuums and corrupt criminal neglect, then
      there is no problem maintaining your well-dressed image. Silence
      speech, and no problems exist! That's the Soviet solution.

      However, now that Putin sees that his own future of enjoying behind
      the scenes influence and security is at stake because of his political
      ideology of nationalist negligence controlling Russia for the past 6
      years, he is only now saying that he will spend significant money on
      medical development of Russia. What a convenient decision, coming just
      as major press and think-tanks, including the LA Times, shined a light
      into his government's negligence and corruption. I imagine Putin sees
      the freedom of press principle that led to those reports as the "lynch
      mob" as you have defined as the hallmark of pure democracy, Fr. John.


      > In the case of all this "informative writing" about Russia and the
      > Russian Orthodox Church, Mr. Woodson has collected material that
      > supports a negative attitude.

      Again, your propaganda colors from the RF/MP show as loudly as a neon
      tie that binds you to them, and against the interests of those you
      were ordained to serve: the Russian Orthodox Church. You
      mischaracterize my writing as being "about the Russian Orthodox
      Church," when I have been writing about the influences of this Moscow
      Patriarchate (not itself the Church or the people of Russia) and the
      government that is kow-tows to, on the Russian people, and the Russian
      Orthodox Church composed of those people.

      The Russian Orthodox Church is the people Fr. John, and you keep
      wanting to morph it into an institution that is indifferent to their
      suffering. That is and was not the way of the Lord Jesus Christ.


      > Instead of looking up disinformation in the research library, I
      > would recommend getting to know Patriarchal clergy, seminarians, and
      > monastics, personally.
      > In Christ
      > Fr. John R. Shaw


      Why? So they can tell me what a genuine Orthodox Christian Mr. Putin
      is while he admires the raping of ten women, dismisses as
      insignificant the life of a journalist to generalize and de-specify
      thinking about the execution murder of that journalist, sanitizes and
      covers-up KGB histories of his own and the MP staff, and commits
      criminally negligent democide against his own people? C'mon Fr. John.

      I'd rather not listen to all of the things they say, but keep an eye
      on what they're doing and not doing. Many of them use the reverential
      respect that we all must have for the symbols and garmets and offices
      they wear to assert control over the people of the Church. But that
      only goes so far before people start seeing them for what they are.
      Why would I want to hang around with them and make a pretence of the
      legitimacy of their present course of anti-Christ nationalism?

      That's the fruit our Lord Jesus Christ told us to keep a watch out for
      so we will know whether they are from Him, or serving some other god.

      Surely there are clergy members within Russia who are genuine and
      sincere folks. They are the ones who I believe will one day be asked
      by the Church to fill all positions in the leadership of the One
      Russian Church. But first, those slots must be patiently left by the
      repentance of resigning hierarchs. At present, under Putin and Alexei
      II, there will be a scoffing sound at this suggestion that comes from
      the scoffers' seats.

      However, the ones who get sent to America to get the communion
      suspension lifted know where their butter comes from, and what they
      are here to do. The question of legitimacy from the top, and the
      state-church indistinction make it hard to know who you are speaking
      with. The envoy for Caesar, or an ambassador for a higher government
      of the Lord Jesus Christ. It's just that the latter don't seem to ride
      up to you first class on an airplane, in a Mercedes or with a look of
      condescension on their faces, rolling their eyes at your parish priest
      when he makes a mistake during services and thus undermining him
      before his flock. Where things and agendas become more important than
      souls, and power and pomp more important than spirituality, you know
      who has come to town, and it isn't the generous, loving Saint Nicholas.

      By their fruit ye shall know them, or worse, who turned them. May the
      pen be precise to who this may help turn back merely by saying what's
      true from someone who is not a power-broker or insider. Obviously I'm
      not, because look at the entirely opposite view I have from the
      official course. Also, I can tread water for a long time waiting until
      the hijackers of this part of the great Ark of Orthodox Christianity
      have been removed from command at the helm.

      To the Russians: when are you going to throw these counterfeits off of
      your backs and bring in the humble who have not sought the power seats
      and therefore who can rightfully represent Christ's leadership in the
      One Russian Church? Where are the men who don't allow themselves to be
      called humble or thank God in public that *they* led the spiritual
      renewal of Russia, thinking more of their legacy than the reality.

      Will the real clergy of the Holy government of Christ be ushered into
      service by the Church in Russia with the help of the ROCOR? For that
      to happen, the majority must stand up against the arrogant rulers and
      principalities and powers and call on the the Lord Jesus Christ for
      merciful deliverance from those powers and principalities playing
      power games that make more chaos for their homeland and future
      generations.
    • Show all 22 messages in this topic