18137Re: Sobor voting
- Oct 5, 2006--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "interestedplus" <asvetlov@...> wrote:
> My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that during the battleJRS: There were different parties in the Church, but there were no Sobors involving bishops
> with previous heresies at Sobors, some bishops did not "recognise"
> other bishops as parts of the Church. It was then the decision of the
> true Sobor, which allowed all a voice and then made a concensual
> decision. The present situation appears similar.
who did not belong to the same Church.
> The fact that the catacomb Church is not "wellJRS: There is no one "Catacomb Church", and there never was. There are various "catacomb
> organised" in the wordly sense is no excuse to exclude them. The view
> that you seem to be voicing is straight from the mouths of the MP -
> "there is no other Church, if it does not accept us". Regarding
> contacting "them", surely in the age of email, TV etc this could be
> done if the will was there.
churches", and ROCOR has long ago determined that those who continue to call
themselves such are without any canonical basis.
The "Lazarites" are not a catacomb church, at least not anymore: they are a group that was
part of ROCOR and first joined ROCiE, then broke away and are now on their own.
> The big hurdle that I do know exists, is that some in the CatacombJRS: You first wrote that they could easily be contacted, and here you say that they "have
> Church still DO NOT TRUST THAT THEY WILL NOT BE PERSECUTED if they
not yet surfaced".
It can't be both ways: if they can be contacted, that means they have indeed "surfaced",
and merely call themselves catacomb churches.
> CANONICALLY is there anything preventing us from having a true SoborJRS: Canonically, a "true Sobor" would not put uncanonical groups on the same level as
> of all Russian Church jurisdictions to decide where to from this
> point in time???
those that have a canonical basis.
Besides, that, the Old Believers are many times more numerous than the various
"catacomb churches", and have up to two million members today. Most of them belong to
the Bielokrinitsa Synod, headed by Metropolitan Cornelius.
The Old Believers have been separate for over 300 years, but still consider themselves
"part of the Russian Church" (in the words of their late Metropolitan Andrian who reposed
Metropolitan Andrian also called for "reconciliation in the Russian Church".
As for the so-called "catacomb churches", most of them are not even interested in
The reason is often that they are minuscule, and want to remain independant.
Fr. John R. Shaw
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