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17793Re: Magerovsky speech at Secretary of the ROCA SYNOD 10 year "chestvovanie"

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  • Mike Woodson
    Sep 8, 2006
      Dear Rev. Fr. Stefan,

      Clearly you are upset based on what you believe, but we differ on many

      We read Preobrazhensky differently. In the early 1990s before glasnost
      froze to death, Preobrazhensky wrote about how the FSB, having just
      changed its letters from KGB, was ill-adapted to defending Russia
      against Chechen guerillas and terrorists. His point was that the FSB
      was configured to keep the inmates in, so to speak, and not to defend
      Russia against militants.

      When the Beslan massacre happened, Preobrazhensky's concerns proved
      true, being concerns for Russian lives, not his own personal
      opportunities. On his perceptions of the MP officials, I think that he
      is right in the main. Bearing in mind the rare exception to the
      general rule, it is unlikely that "all" MP clergy are dedicated
      opportunists, however, you don't need "all" of them to be so long as
      most of them used their cover as a path to new power in Russia rooted
      in their former KGB status and training. Such training is
      recognizable in their actions.

      I see Preobrazhensky opposing those actions and words -- which puts
      him in the repentant category. "Once KGB, always KGB" I suspect
      refers to the training and its habits, and also, his ability to
      recognize former colleagues and their modes of operation ( even in the
      MP ).

      As for your assertions about the United States, which has been a safe
      harbor for a significant Russian diaspora for a long time now, we
      differ a great deal, and I have to suppress the temptation of anger at
      your provocation against a country I love and am loyal and dedicated
      to as much as you are to your own homeland.

      As you benefit from this country that has had freedom of belief and
      religious practice during its entire existence, you criticize it with
      a spirit I can only recognize as irrational anger stoked by
      propaganda. Who does the propaganda benefit? The RF, not the Church.
      That's how to judge its source.

      I'd rather have an Orange Revolution Father, than the toxic, green
      glowing one dumped on Europe by the politicians to which you and your
      like-minded have just joined the ROCOR. Manifest destiny is an
      outdated, obsolete doctrine of the 18th-19th centuries for the US.
      However, you have identified it as a modern Russian governing right to
      Ukraine. I disagree that any nation has a right to rule another
      unless God says it is so in no uncertain terms.


      More specific political responses below:

      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko"
      <StefanVPavlenko@...> wrote:
      > Yes, I was indeed very serious, and no, I was not at all being
      > sarcastic.
      > -------------------------------------------------------------------
      > Mr. Preobrazhensky has claimed that his father was a KGB agent who
      > raised him an Orthodox Christian and that he a KGB agent worked
      > inside the KGB to help the church, or what ever he claims he did to
      > remain an Orthodox Christian during the Soviet era. Yet he adamantly
      > proclaims "KGB always KGB" and does not allow for Orthodox Clergy of
      > the Moscow Patriarchate to have done what he claims for his father
      > and himself. All Moscow Patriarch Clergy are KGB to this day by his
      > reasoning and witness. Yet in today's Russia Monastic communities
      > grow, Churches are built, the New Martyrs and the ROYAL FAMILY
      > glorified, religion and religious publications available to all and
      > on and on....

      It's the headwaters of the renewal that determines the purity of the
      water flowing downstream in an autocracy, Father Stefan. Perhaps God
      will change out the MP leadership his own Way, and all will be
      redeemed. I certainly hope so. It's behavior doesn't support this
      hope so far. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump -- churches,
      publications and so on. The current RF pragmatists have learned that
      they need to use the Church, not persecute it, to stay in power over
      their fellow Russians. However, using the Church is as bad or worse
      than overtly attacking it, because it will hurt the faith of many who
      cease to believe as the MP follows the course of playing Church to
      attain political goals. May they repent of their course, or may God
      turn the tables on them to the benefit of the Russian flock (and
      everyone else related).

      > Dr. Magerovsky is very tightly affiliated with Government think
      > tanks forming the opinions of Government agencies that make State
      > Department policy based on his and like minded individuals promoting
      > the Russo phobic continued policy of the United States against the
      > Russian Federation struggling to get a foot hold after the down fall
      > of the militantly atheistic Communist Soviet Regime. Most others
      > Poland, Latvia, Lithuanian, Estonia, Czech Republic and others are
      > supported and buttressed promoting anti-Russian agendas, while
      > Russia is conspicuously not supported.

      People in the US don't fear Russians, but many fear the recent
      historical tendency toward severe abuse of power in Russian governing
      habits, which have some long and dreary precedents of abuse over the
      past 200 years. Hundreds of millions dead and imprisoned by their
      own? Gulags? That is a serious precedent for distrust of Russian use
      of authority. The USA has some problems and has done some wrongs, but
      nothing on that magnitude. It's safeguards and culture are optimistic
      toward good will in the main. I hope that doesn't change as other
      powers seek to provoke her into wars abroad. May God look out for us
      again and help us find our service to Him.

      > Ukraine and the millions pumped into it during the Orange
      > Revolution, which was done to insure that those who understand
      > Russia, Ukraine and Belarus to be the manifest destiny of an
      > Orthodox Slavic Nation (as Imperial Russia was) would have no chance
      > in their country's policies; reveals quite clearly the interests of
      > the US State Department, and its willingness to support Moslem
      > Albanian terrorists (this is evident in Kosovo to this day!) and
      > Moslem *Chechen terrorists (read "Chechnya Weekly" editor John
      > Dunlop) and Moslem Asetian separatists/terrorists (the whole US-
      > Georgian adventure) in the measures proped up against a strong, free
      > Orthodox Russia or any Orthodox Slavic unity.
      > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko

      Ukraine is not owned by Russia any more than it is owned by anyone else.

      Georgia invited help with putting down terrorist passage through the
      Pankisi Gorge at its border, and the US gave it help to dry up
      supplies to terrorists and militants also fighting US forces in
      Afghanistan and nearby bases, then retreating into that area. China
      has also wanted the area cleared, to staunch weapon supply to its
      Uigher population. That you would turn all of this into an
      anti-Russian effort is way off. Georgia is Orthodox Christian itself
      and must deal with Muslim militants. It wasn't getting any help from
      the Russia of "manifest destiny" either.
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