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14433Re: Associated Press Reports on Documents

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  • vkozyreff
    Jul 2 4:48 AM
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      Dear Father Alexander, bless.

      I have the impression that I heave displeased you. Please excuse me
      for being an idiot. I wanted to draw attention at the fact that the
      Moscow "Patriarch" (a monk) has the choice between two residencies
      and prefers the one with a swimming pool.

      He had a skyrocketing career under bolshevik dictatorship, travelled
      abundantly abroad and developed a yearning for onion soup while
      staying in Paris four decades ago, when priests were suffering hunger
      in concentration camps. (Met Vitaly is living in relatively more
      monastery-like conditions, more suitable for a monk).

      Let me revert to your pet discussions about documents' authorship.
      Can we agree that while authorship adds to the authenticity of a
      document, it is the truth of the contents that matters, not who
      happened to be the author?

      In your message 14422, you write: "A might schizophrenic Metropolitan
      Philaret you are presenting here, if these quotes are actually
      written by him. Just because a letter has been circulating on the
      internet for quite some time does not mean that it is authentic".

      To impugn the contents by questioning the author is an ad hominem
      argument and thus logically invalid. It is like those secular
      scholars who question the authority of the Bible or the Church
      Fathers by questioning who their author is. This resembles the
      typical anti-Christian technical tactic of those lacking discernment
      needed to perceive the truth.

      In God,

      Vladimir Kozyreff

      --- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. Alexander Lebedeff"
      <lebedeff@w...> wrote:
      > Mr. Kozyreff should apologize.
      >
      > In response to a question about whether any monasteries in Russia
      had
      > swimming pools--he responds: "See below."
      >
      > And proceeds to cite an article in which **no monastery at all** is
      mentioned.
      >
      > A normal person would consider this to be a sign of idiocy.
      >
      > With love in Christ,
      >
      > Prot. Alexander Lebedeff
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > At 02:57 PM 7/1/2005, you wrote:
      > >Dear Father John, bless.
      > >
      > >You write: "Are you saying that any of the Russian monasteries do
      > >have swimming pools?"
      > >
      > >Please see below.
      > >
      > >In God,
      > >
      > >Vladimir Kozyreff
      > >
      > >Ecumenical News International (ENI)
      > >
      > >Mushrooms and French soup are a feast fit for a patriarch
      > >
      > >Jonathan Luxmoore
      > >Warsaw (ENI). The head of Russia's Orthodox church has revealed
      that
      > >he likes picking mushrooms and eating French onion soup, but he
      > >dislikes mobile cell phones, and avoids carrying one himself.
      > >
      > >"I'm a mushroom collector - it's my real hobby," said Patriarch
      > >Alexei II in an interview with Russia's Gazieta daily newspaper,
      > >saying he had also developed a yearning for onion soup while
      staying
      > >in Paris four decades ago.
      > >
      > >In the interview published on 3 May, the 76-year-old patriarch said
      > >he preferred his country seat outside Moscow, with its library,
      > >running track and swimming pool, to his official city-centre
      > >residence. He added that he had been advised by doctors to take "at
      > >least 8000 steps daily".
      > >
      > ><http://www.eni.ch/articles/display.shtml?05-
      0368>http://www.eni.ch/articles/display.shtml?05-0368
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >--- In orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John R. Shaw"
      > ><vrevjrs@e...> wrote:
      > > > Vladimir Kozyreff wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > The apostolic succession of the present "MP" is at least
      > >disputed.
      > > > > The true MP was destroyed by Stalin and ceased to exist.
      Later, a
      > > > > false one was created by Stalin, which claimed (logically, how
      > >else?)
      > > > > to be the continuation of the true MP. The true MP was our
      mother
      > > > > Church, not the present, false MP.
      > > >
      > > > JRS: Who consecrated Metropolitan Sergius and the other bishops
      of
      > >the Moscow
      > > > Patriarchate?
      > > >
      > > > When we speak of "apostolic succession", this is what we have in
      > >mind: not the declarations
      > > > or statements made by bishops, but by the fact that they were
      > >consecrated by other bishops,
      > > > and that those bishops in turn were consecrated by others, in a
      > >succession going back to the
      > > > Apostles.
      > > >
      > > > > You write"If the Patriarchate itself had no authority
      whatever,
      > >it
      > > > > could hardly invalidate anything: not even the statements of
      > > > > Metropolitan Sergius".
      > > > >
      > > > > The "Patriarch" is not requested to exert any authority, but
      to
      > > > > acknowledge his not being a patriarch, to disappear from
      public
      > >life
      > > > > and to abandon his false pretences.
      > > >
      > > > JRS: He has not done that, nor has our Church Abroad ever asked
      him
      > >to.
      > > >
      > > > However, if, as in your previous posting, you derive
      > >any "validation" or "invalidation" from the
      > > > official statements of the Moscow Patriarchate -- then you do
      give
      > >it some recognition.
      > > >
      > > > > He would be well inspired to
      > > > > retire in a monastery without a swimming pool.
      > > >
      > > > JRS: Are you saying that any of the Russian monasteries do have
      > >swimming pools?
      > > >
      > > > In Christ
      > > > Fr. John R. Shaw
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
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      > >
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