13454Re: [orthodox-synod] Re: Commissions on Closer Relations between MP and ROCOR
- Jan 17, 2005I didn't realize B. Nikon assisted himself, doing his own laundry, choirs, etc.
The usual English expression might be "private secretary", but in Russian someone who assists a Bishop is called a Kileinik. And it is an honor to assist a bishop as a server.
It was stated by Fr. John's post below to Irina that the parishes in Russia which left MP to go under ROCOR did so for similar reasons as stavropigialny Churches in ROCOR. I stated it was not so. The Churches in Russia left the MP for heretical reasons of Sergianism and Ecumenism. These reasons cannot be considered as reasons to be called stavropigialny because these parishes came to ROCOR from completely different jurisdictions - the Anathematized MP Church.
It is good that now we know the difference between our stavropigialny parishes in ROCOR and the parishes that left MP to go under ROCOR because of heresy.
Irina Pahlen wrote:
> Regarding the parish in France, the reason why it is directly under"JRS: Precisely my point.
> Metr Laurus is well known.
> after some negotiation ... and the promise that he
> (Fr de Castelbajac) would not be obliged to commemorate Vl Ambroise,
> he returned to ROCOR.
Most of the clergy and communities that left the Moscow Patriarchate in Russia and joined ROCOR, did so for similar reasons: because there was some sort of conflict or dissatisfaction.
In the case of the churches in and around Los Angeles that I mentioned, as well as in the above case, the same situation was involved."
"Fr. John R. Shaw" <vrevjrs@...> wrote:
"Michael Nikitin" wrote:
> Fr. John, if your title was secretary to Vl.Nikon, what was the titleof Bishop Paul when he took care of Vl. Lavr?
JRS: I think you mean Bishop Peter (Loukianoff), of Cleveland, vicar
bishop of the Chicago-Detroit Diocese. There was also a Bishop (later
Archbishop) Paul, who reposed some years ago.
Before taking monastic vows, then-Bro. Paul did not "take care" of Vl.
Lavr, but assisted him, mostly as a chauffeur and server. I am not
aware that he ever had any official title.
I was known as Vl. Nikon's secretary, partly because I translated
letters into English for him when he corresponded with English-
speakers, and Vladyka specified that I was to be called his "personal
secretary" -- I suppose "private secretary" would be the usual English
__expression, since I was not the secretary of the Diocese.
> The MP is not one with ROCOR, therefore the parishes can not qualifyto be stavropigialny, Fr.John. The communities in Russia that turned to
ROCOR from the MP did so because of heresy of Sergianism and
Ecumenism. It has nothing to do with being stavropigialny. You are
mixing apples with oranges.
JRS: I never said the ROCOR groups in Russia were "stavropigialny" --
you were the one who said that.
But neither were the parishes that I referred to outside of Russia.
These parishes were not under the local bishops, because there was some
sort of difficulty or problem between them and what should have been
their diocese; and they were taken directly under the Metropolitan, as
a solution, to avoid their leaving ROCOR.
St. Vladimir Memorial Church in New Jersey, on the other hand, is an
example of a real "stavropigialny" church.
Fr. John R. Shaw
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