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Re: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Election of New Metropolitan

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  • ХристофорЪ | Hristofor Shashkin
    Simple lack of candidates perhaps? On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 8:35 AM, tomamallett ... -- Christopher Shashkin Columbia U/CCSR
    Message 1 of 14 , May 8, 2008
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      Simple lack of candidates perhaps?

      On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 8:35 AM, tomamallett <raleighfingers@...> wrote:

      Only four!!
      This prompts me to ask: Why is it that whenever I read about the
      Russian empire or the Roman Empire I read referneces to a bishop or
      metropolitan in every podunk little burg in the realm? From Tsarigrad
      to Carthage there was a bishop at every stop, and there seems to have
      been a bishop in every provincial town, at least in the Russian
      Empire. Why is it that we, who do not live in New York, Chicago, or
      California, have to drive six hours or more to see a bishop, let alone
      have a relationship with him as described by Ignatius and Polycarp in
      his letters. In OK City I got to see and visit with Vladyka Peter
      several times, and this was an overwhelmingly positive experience.
      More importantly, I want my kids to know what and who their bishop is,
      and this doesn;t happen when they are so spread out. I realise that
      there is no need for a bishop of Enid, Oklahoma, but I think their
      certainly could be a bit more frequency of vladykas.

      Toma Mallett
      Lafayette, IN

      --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John R. Shaw"
      <vrevjrs@...> wrote:
      >
      > XPICTOC BOCKPECE!
      >
      > --- Vlad Harris had written:
      >
      > > > This being
      > > > said, why shouldn't ROCOR have two Metropolitans, say, one for
      > > > Europe, and one for the rest? Why not several Metropolitans,
      for that matter?
      >
      > --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. Alexander Lebedeff"
      <lebedeff@> wrote:
      >
      > > In fact, in ROCOR history, there were times when there were
      multiple Metropolitan
      > > Districts, each headed by a Metropolitan -- in Western Europe, in
      North America, in the
      > > Balkans, and in the Far East (China).
      > > Metropolitans Anastassy, Seraphim (Germany), Evlogy (France),
      Theophilus (N. America),
      > > Meletius (China) were all contemporaries in the Church Abroad.
      >
      > JRS: One should bear in mind, that in the days when ROCOR included 5
      Metropolitans,
      > there were also many more ROCOR bishops than there are today.
      >
      > As recently as the early 1960's, there were still 26 ROCOR bishops
      (in the 1920's or '30's,
      > there are said to have been twice that number, or perhaps even more).
      >
      > Today, there are only 11 ROCOR bishops:
      >
      > of whom two (Bishops Amvrossy and Varnava) are officially retired;
      >
      > and two others (Archbishop Alypy and Bishop Daniel), though not
      retired, are seriously
      > limited by their health: Vl. Alypy still has difficulty travelling,
      due to spinal damage in a
      > 2002 accident, and Bishop Daniel has more general health problems
      that keep him at
      > home).
      >
      > That leaves only 7 fully "active" ROCOR bishops:
      >
      > and three of those (Bishops Gabriel, Agapit and Peter) are vicar
      bishops,
      >
      > which leaves just 4: Archbishops Hilarion, Mark and Kyrill, and
      Bishop Michael, as fully
      > active, ruling bishops.
      >
      > It would be nice to have "several Metropolitans", but at present,
      that does not seem like a
      > realistic prospect.
      >
      > In Christ
      > Fr. John R. Shaw
      >




      --
      Christopher Shashkin
      Columbia U/CCSR
      212-678-5543 Voice
      212-678-5648 Fax
      516-987-4781 Mobile
      www.linkedin.com/in/shashkinc
    • tomamallett
      I can think of a few people I would like to nominate, if their taking suggestions. I once tried to think of a scheme to make Fr Anthony Nelson the Patriarch
      Message 2 of 14 , May 8, 2008
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        I can think of a few people I would like to nominate, if their taking
        suggestions. I once tried to think of a scheme to make Fr Anthony
        Nelson the Patriarch of Constantinople, but it turned out that was
        really unlikely.

        Toma Mallett
        Lafayette, IN

        --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "ХристофорЪ | Hristofor
        Shashkin" <hristofor01@...> wrote:
        >
        > Simple lack of candidates perhaps?
        >
        > On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 8:35 AM, tomamallett <raleighfingers@...>
        > wrote:
        >
        > > Only four!!
        > > This prompts me to ask: Why is it that whenever I read about the
        > > Russian empire or the Roman Empire I read referneces to a bishop or
        > > metropolitan in every podunk little burg in the realm? From Tsarigrad
        > > to Carthage there was a bishop at every stop, and there seems to have
        > > been a bishop in every provincial town, at least in the Russian
        > > Empire. Why is it that we, who do not live in New York, Chicago, or
        > > California, have to drive six hours or more to see a bishop, let alone
        > > have a relationship with him as described by Ignatius and Polycarp in
        > > his letters. In OK City I got to see and visit with Vladyka Peter
        > > several times, and this was an overwhelmingly positive experience.
        > > More importantly, I want my kids to know what and who their bishop is,
        > > and this doesn;t happen when they are so spread out. I realise that
        > > there is no need for a bishop of Enid, Oklahoma, but I think their
        > > certainly could be a bit more frequency of vladykas.
        > >
        > > Toma Mallett
        > > Lafayette, IN
        > >
        > > --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
        <orthodox-rocor%40yahoogroups.com>,
        > > "Fr. John R. Shaw"
        > > <vrevjrs@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > XPICTOC BOCKPECE!
        > > >
        > > > --- Vlad Harris had written:
        > > >
        > > > > > This being
        > > > > > said, why shouldn't ROCOR have two Metropolitans, say, one for
        > > > > > Europe, and one for the rest? Why not several Metropolitans,
        > > for that matter?
        > > >
        > > > --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
        <orthodox-rocor%40yahoogroups.com>,
        > > "Fr. Alexander Lebedeff"
        > > <lebedeff@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > In fact, in ROCOR history, there were times when there were
        > > multiple Metropolitan
        > > > > Districts, each headed by a Metropolitan -- in Western Europe, in
        > > North America, in the
        > > > > Balkans, and in the Far East (China).
        > > > > Metropolitans Anastassy, Seraphim (Germany), Evlogy (France),
        > > Theophilus (N. America),
        > > > > Meletius (China) were all contemporaries in the Church Abroad.
        > > >
        > > > JRS: One should bear in mind, that in the days when ROCOR included 5
        > > Metropolitans,
        > > > there were also many more ROCOR bishops than there are today.
        > > >
        > > > As recently as the early 1960's, there were still 26 ROCOR bishops
        > > (in the 1920's or '30's,
        > > > there are said to have been twice that number, or perhaps even
        more).
        > > >
        > > > Today, there are only 11 ROCOR bishops:
        > > >
        > > > of whom two (Bishops Amvrossy and Varnava) are officially retired;
        > > >
        > > > and two others (Archbishop Alypy and Bishop Daniel), though not
        > > retired, are seriously
        > > > limited by their health: Vl. Alypy still has difficulty travelling,
        > > due to spinal damage in a
        > > > 2002 accident, and Bishop Daniel has more general health problems
        > > that keep him at
        > > > home).
        > > >
        > > > That leaves only 7 fully "active" ROCOR bishops:
        > > >
        > > > and three of those (Bishops Gabriel, Agapit and Peter) are vicar
        > > bishops,
        > > >
        > > > which leaves just 4: Archbishops Hilarion, Mark and Kyrill, and
        > > Bishop Michael, as fully
        > > > active, ruling bishops.
        > > >
        > > > It would be nice to have "several Metropolitans", but at present,
        > > that does not seem like a
        > > > realistic prospect.
        > > >
        > > > In Christ
        > > > Fr. John R. Shaw
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > --
        > Christopher Shashkin
        > Columbia U/CCSR
        > 212-678-5543 Voice
        > 212-678-5648 Fax
        > 516-987-4781 Mobile
        > www.linkedin.com/in/shashkinc
        >
      • Paul Bartlett
        ... As I see it as a now outsider, a major issue is that only monks or widowed priests who have taken monastic vows may become bishops. So far as I know, in
        Message 3 of 14 , May 8, 2008
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          On Thu, 8 May 2008, tomamallett wrote (excerpted):

          > Why is it that we, who do not live in New York, Chicago, or
          > California, have to drive six hours or more to see a bishop, let alone
          > have a relationship with him as described by Ignatius and Polycarp in
          > his letters.

          As I see it as a now outsider, a major issue is that only monks or
          widowed priests who have taken monastic vows may become bishops. So
          far as I know, in the primitive Church there were married bishops, but
          this is no longer the case. So it seems to me that ROCOR has a paucity
          of candidates to become bishops, hence the paucity of bishops. Could
          it be that with the re-establishment of communion with the mother
          church in Russia, that some candidate bishops could come from Russia?
          (Of course, if they speak only Russian and do not speak the local
          language, there could be a serious pastoral problem.)

          --
          Paul Bartlett
        • Meg Lark
          ... [ml] ROTFL!!! In the risen Christ, Meg Lark -- èÒÉÓÔÏÓ ×ÏÓËÒÅÓÅ!
          Message 4 of 14 , May 8, 2008
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            On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 1:23 PM, tomamallett <raleighfingers@...> wrote:

            > I can think of a few people I would like to nominate, if their taking
            > suggestions. I once tried to think of a scheme to make Fr Anthony
            > Nelson the Patriarch of Constantinople, but it turned out that was
            > really unlikely.
            >
            > Toma Mallett
            > Lafayette, IN

            [ml] ROTFL!!!

            In the risen Christ,
            Meg Lark

            --
            Христос воскресе!
          • Fr. Anthony Nelson
            ... Clearly that s the case (can anything good come out of Enid?). Yet there is certainly a need for a ruling Bishop of Choctaw and the Five Civilized
            Message 5 of 14 , May 8, 2008
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              At 07:35 AM 5/8/2008, "tomamallett" <raleighfingers@...>  wrote:

              I realise that there is no need for a bishop of Enid, Oklahoma,

              Clearly that's the case (can anything good come out of Enid?). Yet there is certainly a need for a ruling Bishop of "Choctaw and the Five Civilized Tribes." IMNSHO, anyway.

              Fr. Anthony

               

              * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
              Protopriest Anthony Nelson                     
              St. Benedict Russian Orthodox Church    
              Oklahoma City, OK USA 405-672-1441      
              mailto:fr.anthony@...           
              http://www.russianorthodoxoklahoma.org 

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