RE: [orthodox-rocor] Thoughts from Fr. Seraphim (Rose)
- Dear Margaret,
Of course I didn't include you in that comment! In fact, yours was the
one pleasant post. I'm very sorry I haven't responded yet - it's been a very
hectic day. Are you truly a ROCOR-Wannabe? :-)
It's great to hear from someone who wants to talk about traditional female
roles! I've read several books lately, some Orthodox and some secular:
More Spirited Than Lions, by Sarah Elizabeth Cowie, and The Scandal of
Gender by Patrick Mitchell, both available from Regina Orthodox Press, are
the Orthodox ones; Domestic Tranquility by F. Carolyn Graglia, A Return to
Modesty by Wendy Shalit, Who Stole Feminism? by Christina Hoff Sommers, and
Goddess Unmasked by Philip Davis are the secular ones. They outline the
history of feminism and its real agenda (not equal opportunity, which
existed prior to the 1960's, as Friedan and de Beauvoir admitted
themselves), its deliberate attack on the traditional family, its goal of
no-fault divorce to make staying at home not a feasible option for most
women, its current agenda of rewriting history (sorry, herstory - and don't
think of attending a seminar, they're ovulars - really!), and its goal of
doing away with masculinity (see The War Against Boys, Christina Hoff
Sommers, and Bringing Up Boys, James Dobson).
I've been a working mother too - at the beginning, when I just had two
children. I had blithely believed all through my education that I would
somehow 'have it all' - meld a profession with a family life, and raise my
own children! Blissful ignorance! I had the first inkling that it wouldn't
go smoothly during my first pregnancy, when I became extremely protective of
my unborn child. Oddly, I felt I needed to because the 'health'
professionals around me certainly weren't interested in his wellbeing. I had
to make waves to be excused from mixing chemotherapeutic drugs (very
teratogenic) early on, and was regarded as a whiner for asking that
radiology techs warn us before shooting x-rays in the ICU. The other house
staff (I was pregnant during my internship, alas) simply told me not to even
THINK of asking for consideration. There was a very "macha" attitude among
the women there, who loved to trade stories of how much their 'kids' bugged
them and how glad they were to come back to work to get away. I had a hard
time coming back to work, but if I hadn't I wouldn't have gotten a licence
to practice. I worked full-time, then part-time as soon as I could, but was
never happy with the child care we could find and there were always crises
(7:00 a.m. phone call: "Can't make it today, dear! Sorry."). When I stopped
work at 36 weeks to have a little break before our second son was born, my
oldest (2 years) said, "Mommy, I'm so glad you're home now to take care of
me!" My heart broke.
I did work a bit of part-time after my second son was born, but it was so
much hassle and stress and I really felt I needed to be home with my
children - so I quit and stayed home. I've been home ever since. I really
don't think it's possible to combine a demanding career and family: you
can't serve two masters. One has to give. I ended up homeschooling my
children (I ended up with four) until the oldest was in 6th grade, and it
Anyway, in terms of where the thread could go, I'm hoping to discuss the
benefits and fulfillment in being 'keepers at home', as well as the
challenges. Taking care of a household is much more difficult than what I
did professionally! I'm also interested in discussing people's ideas on
modesty and appropriate Christian clothing, head covering, and any child
teaching and raising issues.
I haven't yet checked out OrthWomen, but I will. If some women here want to
talk, though, maybe we can have our own small group.
Thanks for responding,
From: Margaret Lark [mailto:skovranok@...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 4:23 PM
Subject: RE: [orthodox-rocor] Thoughts from Fr. Seraphim (Rose)
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Dr. Jennifer Lultschik" <jlultschik@...>
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 07:34:29 -0500
>I'm hoping to hear from more ROCOR people on this list. It seems odd thatI hope you're not including me in that comment. :-( Does ROCOR-Wannabe
>the first several posts I've received have been from non-ROCOR people who
>were not particularly charitable toward us...
>Would anyone be interested in starting a thread on women's traditionalroles
>and spirituality? I have read some excellent books recently and would beYes! Me!! I'm interested to know (a) what books you have read, and (b)
>interested in a cordial discussion.
how you balance being an M.D. with being a traditional mom, since IIRC, you
stay at home with your kids? As for me, I've been a sometimes at-home and
sometimes working mom, and I can definitively state that the at-home times
were better. My kids are grown now, and don't seem to have any negative
memories one way or the other (maybe they're just hiding them from me...)
:-} but in those years before I was Orthodox, I bought somewhat into the
have-it-all myth, then realized that wasn't ever going to be possible and
opted for staying at home. Of course, now it's a little hard to find work -
not too much call for elderly accountants, I guess. Still, it was worth it.
So, tell! What books? And where did you want this thread to go?
And is there anyone else interested in this, or should we take this
Margaret the sinner
Glory be to God in all things!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
- I have a question for Father John or other learned
priests on this list. The following is the Anathema
against Ecumenism. I have read it many times. There
is nothing here that refers to Ecumenical dialogue
with the heterodox. There are Apostolic Canons in our
Church against having prayer with the heterodox, but
is there anything that prohibits true dialogue? Are
all those who presented the Orthodox Truth in
"Ecumenical" conferences (without prayer) of the past,
such as Father George Florovsky and Ioannes Romanides,
"Ecumenists" and heretics? The question I have is,
what are all the actions that reflect an Ecumenistic
phronema? The anathema below is very ambiguous in
this regard. Does anyone have any thoughts on this
Those who attack the Church of Christ by teaching that
Christ's Church is divided into so-called "branches"
differ in doctrine and way of life, or that the
Church does not exist visibly, but will be formed in
the future when all
"branches" or sects or denominations, and even
religions will be united into one body; and who do not
the priesthood and mysteries of the Church from
those of the heretics, but say that the baptism and
heretics is effectual for salvation; therefore,
to those who knowingly have communion with these
heretics or who advocate, disseminate, or defend
their new heresy of Ecumenism under the pretext of
love or the supposed unification of separated
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