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RE: [orthodox-rocor] Thoughts from Fr. Seraphim (Rose)

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  • Dr. Jennifer Lultschik
    Dear Margaret, Of course I didn t include you in that comment! In fact, yours was the one pleasant post. I m very sorry I haven t responded yet - it s been a
    Message 1 of 9 , Oct 31, 2001
      Dear Margaret,

      Of course I didn't include you in that comment! In fact, yours was the
      one pleasant post. I'm very sorry I haven't responded yet - it's been a very
      hectic day. Are you truly a ROCOR-Wannabe? :-)

      It's great to hear from someone who wants to talk about traditional female
      roles! I've read several books lately, some Orthodox and some secular:
      More Spirited Than Lions, by Sarah Elizabeth Cowie, and The Scandal of
      Gender by Patrick Mitchell, both available from Regina Orthodox Press, are
      the Orthodox ones; Domestic Tranquility by F. Carolyn Graglia, A Return to
      Modesty by Wendy Shalit, Who Stole Feminism? by Christina Hoff Sommers, and
      Goddess Unmasked by Philip Davis are the secular ones. They outline the
      history of feminism and its real agenda (not equal opportunity, which
      existed prior to the 1960's, as Friedan and de Beauvoir admitted
      themselves), its deliberate attack on the traditional family, its goal of
      no-fault divorce to make staying at home not a feasible option for most
      women, its current agenda of rewriting history (sorry, herstory - and don't
      think of attending a seminar, they're ovulars - really!), and its goal of
      doing away with masculinity (see The War Against Boys, Christina Hoff
      Sommers, and Bringing Up Boys, James Dobson).

      I've been a working mother too - at the beginning, when I just had two
      children. I had blithely believed all through my education that I would
      somehow 'have it all' - meld a profession with a family life, and raise my
      own children! Blissful ignorance! I had the first inkling that it wouldn't
      go smoothly during my first pregnancy, when I became extremely protective of
      my unborn child. Oddly, I felt I needed to because the 'health'
      professionals around me certainly weren't interested in his wellbeing. I had
      to make waves to be excused from mixing chemotherapeutic drugs (very
      teratogenic) early on, and was regarded as a whiner for asking that
      radiology techs warn us before shooting x-rays in the ICU. The other house
      staff (I was pregnant during my internship, alas) simply told me not to even
      THINK of asking for consideration. There was a very "macha" attitude among
      the women there, who loved to trade stories of how much their 'kids' bugged
      them and how glad they were to come back to work to get away. I had a hard
      time coming back to work, but if I hadn't I wouldn't have gotten a licence
      to practice. I worked full-time, then part-time as soon as I could, but was
      never happy with the child care we could find and there were always crises
      (7:00 a.m. phone call: "Can't make it today, dear! Sorry."). When I stopped
      work at 36 weeks to have a little break before our second son was born, my
      oldest (2 years) said, "Mommy, I'm so glad you're home now to take care of
      me!" My heart broke.

      I did work a bit of part-time after my second son was born, but it was so
      much hassle and stress and I really felt I needed to be home with my
      children - so I quit and stayed home. I've been home ever since. I really
      don't think it's possible to combine a demanding career and family: you
      can't serve two masters. One has to give. I ended up homeschooling my
      children (I ended up with four) until the oldest was in 6th grade, and it
      was wonderful.

      Anyway, in terms of where the thread could go, I'm hoping to discuss the
      benefits and fulfillment in being 'keepers at home', as well as the
      challenges. Taking care of a household is much more difficult than what I
      did professionally! I'm also interested in discussing people's ideas on
      modesty and appropriate Christian clothing, head covering, and any child
      teaching and raising issues.

      I haven't yet checked out OrthWomen, but I will. If some women here want to
      talk, though, maybe we can have our own small group.

      Thanks for responding,

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Margaret Lark [mailto:skovranok@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 4:23 PM
      To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [orthodox-rocor] Thoughts from Fr. Seraphim (Rose)

      ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
      From: "Dr. Jennifer Lultschik" <jlultschik@...>
      Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 07:34:29 -0500

      >I'm hoping to hear from more ROCOR people on this list. It seems odd that
      >the first several posts I've received have been from non-ROCOR people who
      >were not particularly charitable toward us...

      I hope you're not including me in that comment. :-( Does ROCOR-Wannabe

      >Would anyone be interested in starting a thread on women's traditional
      >and spirituality? I have read some excellent books recently and would be
      >interested in a cordial discussion.

      Yes! Me!! I'm interested to know (a) what books you have read, and (b)
      how you balance being an M.D. with being a traditional mom, since IIRC, you
      stay at home with your kids? As for me, I've been a sometimes at-home and
      sometimes working mom, and I can definitively state that the at-home times
      were better. My kids are grown now, and don't seem to have any negative
      memories one way or the other (maybe they're just hiding them from me...)
      :-} but in those years before I was Orthodox, I bought somewhat into the
      have-it-all myth, then realized that wasn't ever going to be possible and
      opted for staying at home. Of course, now it's a little hard to find work -
      not too much call for elderly accountants, I guess. Still, it was worth it.

      So, tell! What books? And where did you want this thread to go?

      And is there anyone else interested in this, or should we take this
      offlist? ;-)

      In Christ,
      Margaret the sinner

      Glory be to God in all things!

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    • Gregorios Pavlakis
      I have a question for Father John or other learned priests on this list. The following is the Anathema against Ecumenism. I have read it many times. There
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 7, 2001
        I have a question for Father John or other learned
        priests on this list. The following is the Anathema
        against Ecumenism. I have read it many times. There
        is nothing here that refers to Ecumenical dialogue
        with the heterodox. There are Apostolic Canons in our
        Church against having prayer with the heterodox, but
        is there anything that prohibits true dialogue? Are
        all those who presented the Orthodox Truth in
        "Ecumenical" conferences (without prayer) of the past,
        such as Father George Florovsky and Ioannes Romanides,
        "Ecumenists" and heretics? The question I have is,
        what are all the actions that reflect an Ecumenistic
        phronema? The anathema below is very ambiguous in
        this regard. Does anyone have any thoughts on this


        Those who attack the Church of Christ by teaching that
        Christ's Church is divided into so-called "branches"
        differ in doctrine and way of life, or that the
        Church does not exist visibly, but will be formed in
        the future when all
        "branches" or sects or denominations, and even
        religions will be united into one body; and who do not
        the priesthood and mysteries of the Church from
        those of the heretics, but say that the baptism and
        eucharist of
        heretics is effectual for salvation; therefore,
        to those who knowingly have communion with these
        heretics or who advocate, disseminate, or defend
        their new heresy of Ecumenism under the pretext of
        love or the supposed unification of separated
        Christians, Anathema!

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