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Re: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Common Date for Pascha/Easter?

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  • Hristofor/ХристофорЪ
    Doubt it. I am sure that there would be one group or another to find a problem. Hristofor Shashkin ... Doubt it. I am sure that there would be one group or
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 6 9:55 AM
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      Doubt it. I am sure that there would be one group or another to find a problem.

      Hristofor Shashkin

      On 7/6/07, Al Green < aggreen1@...> wrote:

      Food for Thought (or Comment): If we all followed the western
      reckoning (which seems to be the majority "Christian" opinion) would
      there not be unity?

      Al

      --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, seraphim <seraphim37@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > On the question of the date of Pascha and some schismatics who
      persisted in
      > their own calculation of the date even after the Council of Nicea,
      St John
      > Chrysostom said:
      >
      > Even if the Church made a mistake, exactness in the observance of
      times
      > would not be as important as the offense caused by this division
      and this
      > schism.
      >
      > (quoted from http://www.oca.org/Docs.asp?ID=133&SID=12, Concerning
      the Date
      > of Pascha and the First Ecumenical Council , by Bishop Peter)
      >
      > I think this quote can be applied to the Old Calendar / New Calendar
      > question also. The issue isn't "astronomical accuracy", but rather
      > ecclesiastical unity.
      >
      > That's why the New Calendar has been such a disaster for the
      Church -- a
      > disaster of disunity. And that's why I think the Western Church
      has "got
      > it wrong" in their calculation of the date of Pascha. The primary
      issue
      > here shouldn't be astronomical accuracy, but ecclesiastical unity.
      The
      > Gregorian calendar reform mixed up those priorities.
      >
      > God can send the grace of the Feast whenever He wants. Indeed, He
      sends it
      > at different times, even for those Orthodox who follow the same
      calendar --
      > first for those celebrating the Feast in the Eastern time zones,
      then to
      > those in the Western zones. He can send the grace of Pascha even
      in the
      > summertime, if the world lasts long enough for Julian Pascha to
      occur in the
      > summertime. That's not a big problem -- for example, Christmas is
      already
      > happening in the summer for those in the southern hemisphere.
      Where is the
      > substantive problem, if Pascha happens in the summer or the fall?
      But
      > disunity is a very substantive problem.
      >
      >
      > Seraphim Larsen
      >
      >
      >
      > On 7/5/07, Al Green < aggreen1@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > ***There's a commonly heldc belief in Orthodoxy that the Jewish
      > > Passover must be completed before the celebration of Pascha. This
      > > year, despite the common celebration with the western churches,
      > > Passover was not completed until Tuesday of Bright Week. And,
      there
      > > seems to be no "Passover factor" anywhere in the Ecumenical
      Council
      > > relative to Passover and Pascha. I sometimes think the western
      > > churches have got it right when it comes to calculating when
      Easter
      > > will occur. Comments anyone?
      > >
      > > Al
      > >
      > > --- In orthodox-
      > > rocor@yahoogroups.com <rocor%
      40yahoogroups.com>, "Hristofor/"
      > > <hristofor01@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Actually I had read an article that John Paul II was in favor
      of the
      > > > Orthodox date for Pascha. Anyway, I am sure there will be o
      support
      > > for this
      > > > in the ROC.
      > > >
      > > > Hristofor Shashkin
      > > >
      > > > On 7/4/07, Al Green <aggreen1@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > ***The Ecumenical Patriarch and the Pope of Rome seem heck-
      bent
      > > on
      > > > > being very palsy-walsy. Any thoughts on this article?
      > > > >
      > > > > http://www.directionstoorthodoxy.org/mod/news/view.php?
      > > article_id=638
      > > > >
      > > > > Al
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > --
      > azseraphim@... ‧ http://www.linkedin.com/in/seraphimlarsen
      >


    • CW
      The Western church has been using Rome s calendar for over 500 years. In the United States alone there are countless Christian (?) churches and none of them
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 6 10:13 AM
      • 0 Attachment

         
        The Western church has been using Rome's calendar for over 500 years.  In the United States alone there are countless Christian (?) churches and none of them seem to have an abundance of unity.  (Roman Catholic, Lutheran (Various divisions), Methodist, Baptist (various divisions), Fundamentalists and Sons of Thunder (a snake handling group found in Kentucky, West Virginia, etc.)
        Jéan-Claude Williams
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Al Green
        Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 7:23 AM
        Subject: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Common Date for Pascha/Easter?

        Food for Thought (or Comment): If we all followed the western
        reckoning (which seems to be the majority "Christian" opinion) would
        there not be unity?

        Al

        --- In orthodox-rocor@ yahoogroups. com, seraphim <seraphim37@ ...>
        wrote:
        >
        > On the question of the date of Pascha and some schismatics who
        persisted in
        > their own calculation of the date even after the Council of Nicea,
        St John
        > Chrysostom said:
        >
        > Even if the Church made a mistake, exactness in the observance of
        times
        > would not be as important as the offense caused by this division
        and this
        > schism.
        >
        > (quoted from http://www.oca. org/Docs. asp?ID=133& SID=12, Concerning
        the Date
        > of Pascha and the First Ecumenical Council , by Bishop Peter)
        >
        > I think this quote can be applied to the Old Calendar / New Calendar
        > question also. The issue isn't "astronomical accuracy", but rather
        > ecclesiastical unity.
        >
        > That's why the New Calendar has been such a disaster for the
        Church -- a
        > disaster of disunity. And that's why I think the Western Church
        has "got
        > it wrong" in their calculation of the date of Pascha. The primary
        issue
        > here shouldn't be astronomical accuracy, but ecclesiastical unity.
        The
        > Gregorian calendar reform mixed up those priorities.
        >
        > God can send the grace of the Feast whenever He wants. Indeed, He
        sends it
        > at different times, even for those Orthodox who follow the same
        calendar --
        > first for those celebrating the Feast in the Eastern time zones,
        then to
        > those in the Western zones. He can send the grace of Pascha even
        in the
        > summertime, if the world lasts long enough for Julian Pascha to
        occur in the
        > summertime. That's not a big problem -- for example, Christmas is
        already
        > happening in the summer for those in the southern hemisphere.
        Where is the
        > substantive problem, if Pascha happens in the summer or the fall?
        But
        > disunity is a very substantive problem.
        >
        >
        > Seraphim Larsen
        >
        >
        >
        > On 7/5/07, Al Green < aggreen1@... > wrote:
        > >
        > > ***There's a commonly heldc belief in Orthodoxy that the Jewish
        > > Passover must be completed before the celebration of Pascha. This
        > > year, despite the common celebration with the western churches,
        > > Passover was not completed until Tuesday of Bright Week. And,
        there
        > > seems to be no "Passover factor" anywhere in the Ecumenical
        Council
        > > relative to Passover and Pascha. I sometimes think the western
        > > churches have got it right when it comes to calculating when
        Easter
        > > will occur. Comments anyone?
        > >
        > > Al
        > >
        > > --- In orthodox-
        > > rocor@yahoogroups. com <rocor%
        40yahoogroups. com>, "Hristofor/"
        > > <hristofor01@ > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Actually I had read an article that John Paul II was in favor
        of the
        > > > Orthodox date for Pascha. Anyway, I am sure there will be o
        support
        > > for this
        > > > in the ROC.
        > > >
        > > > Hristofor Shashkin
        > > >
        > > > On 7/4/07, Al Green <aggreen1@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > ***The Ecumenical Patriarch and the Pope of Rome seem heck-
        bent
        > > on
        > > > > being very palsy-walsy. Any thoughts on this article?
        > > > >
        > > > > http://www.directio nstoorthodoxy. org/mod/news/ view.php?
        > > article_id=638
        > > > >
        > > > > Al
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > --
        > azseraphim@. .. ‧ http://www.linkedin .com/in/seraphim larsen
        >

      • seraphim
        The establishment of the Paschal cycle was not a dogmatic issue, and so the Orthodox Church can change it. But since it was the entire Orthodox Church, in an
        Message 3 of 18 , Jul 6 11:03 AM
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          The establishment of the Paschal cycle was not a dogmatic issue, and so the Orthodox Church can change it.   But since it was the entire Orthodox Church, in an Ecumenical Council, that established the date for Pascha, it would need to be the entire Orthodox Church that agrees to change it. 

          "Majority opinion" on ecclesiastical matters doesn't count when the majority are not even Orthodox. 


          Seraphim Larsen



          On 7/6/07, Al Green <aggreen1@...> wrote:

          Food for Thought (or Comment): If we all followed the western
          reckoning (which seems to be the majority "Christian" opinion) would
          there not be unity?

          Al

          --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, seraphim <seraphim37@...>


          wrote:
          >
          > On the question of the date of Pascha and some schismatics who
          persisted in
          > their own calculation of the date even after the Council of Nicea,
          St John
          > Chrysostom said:
          >
          > Even if the Church made a mistake, exactness in the observance of
          times
          > would not be as important as the offense caused by this division
          and this
          > schism.
          >
          > (quoted from http://www.oca.org/Docs.asp?ID=133&SID=12, Concerning
          the Date
          > of Pascha and the First Ecumenical Council , by Bishop Peter)
          >
          > I think this quote can be applied to the Old Calendar / New Calendar
          > question also. The issue isn't "astronomical accuracy", but rather
          > ecclesiastical unity.
          >
          > That's why the New Calendar has been such a disaster for the
          Church -- a
          > disaster of disunity. And that's why I think the Western Church
          has "got
          > it wrong" in their calculation of the date of Pascha. The primary
          issue
          > here shouldn't be astronomical accuracy, but ecclesiastical unity.
          The
          > Gregorian calendar reform mixed up those priorities.
          >
          > God can send the grace of the Feast whenever He wants. Indeed, He
          sends it
          > at different times, even for those Orthodox who follow the same
          calendar --
          > first for those celebrating the Feast in the Eastern time zones,
          then to
          > those in the Western zones. He can send the grace of Pascha even
          in the
          > summertime, if the world lasts long enough for Julian Pascha to
          occur in the
          > summertime. That's not a big problem -- for example, Christmas is
          already
          > happening in the summer for those in the southern hemisphere.
          Where is the
          > substantive problem, if Pascha happens in the summer or the fall?
          But
          > disunity is a very substantive problem.
          >
          >
          > Seraphim Larsen
          >
          >
          >
          > On 7/5/07, Al Green < aggreen1@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > ***There's a commonly heldc belief in Orthodoxy that the Jewish
          > > Passover must be completed before the celebration of Pascha. This
          > > year, despite the common celebration with the western churches,
          > > Passover was not completed until Tuesday of Bright Week. And,
          there
          > > seems to be no "Passover factor" anywhere in the Ecumenical
          Council
          > > relative to Passover and Pascha. I sometimes think the western
          > > churches have got it right when it comes to calculating when
          Easter
          > > will occur. Comments anyone?
          > >
          > > Al
          > >
          > > --- In orthodox-
          > > rocor@yahoogroups.com <rocor%
          40yahoogroups.com>, "Hristofor/"
          > > <hristofor01@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Actually I had read an article that John Paul II was in favor
          of the
          > > > Orthodox date for Pascha. Anyway, I am sure there will be o
          support
          > > for this
          > > > in the ROC.
          > > >
          > > > Hristofor Shashkin
          > > >
          > > > On 7/4/07, Al Green <aggreen1@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > ***The Ecumenical Patriarch and the Pope of Rome seem heck-
          bent
          > > on
          > > > > being very palsy-walsy. Any thoughts on this article?
          > > > >
          > > > > http://www.directionstoorthodoxy.org/mod/news/view.php?
          > > article_id=638
          > > > >
          > > > > Al
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > azseraphim@... ‧ http://www.linkedin.com/in/seraphimlarsen
          >




          --
          azseraphim@...http://www.linkedin.com/in/seraphimlarsen
        • Al Green
          ***You make a point, Jean-Claude, but you may be mixing theology with calendars. According to a United Nations study in 1997, there were at that time more than
          Message 4 of 18 , Jul 6 5:16 PM
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            ***You make a point, Jean-Claude, but you may be mixing theology with
            calendars. According to a United Nations study in 1997, there were at
            that time more than 33,000 protestant denominations, cults, sects,
            societies, associations and independents worldwide, and that the
            number was growing by 10 to 12 nedw ones each day. True, this is
            disunity. But, I would venture a guess that at least 99 percent of
            them celebrate Easter according to the Gregorian calendar.

            ***My Carpatho-Russian parish, BTW, follows the Julian Calendar.

            Al




            --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "CW" <rivendell740@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > The Western church has been using Rome's calendar for over 500
            years. In the United States alone there are countless Christian (?)
            churches and none of them seem to have an abundance of unity. (Roman
            Catholic, Lutheran (Various divisions), Methodist, Baptist (various
            divisions), Fundamentalists and Sons of Thunder (a snake handling
            group found in Kentucky, West Virginia, etc.)
            > Jéan-Claude Williams
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Al Green
            > To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 7:23 AM
            > Subject: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Common Date for Pascha/Easter?
            >
            >
            > Food for Thought (or Comment): If we all followed the western
            > reckoning (which seems to be the majority "Christian" opinion)
            would
            > there not be unity?
            >
            > Al
            >
            > --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, seraphim <seraphim37@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > On the question of the date of Pascha and some schismatics
            who
            > persisted in
            > > their own calculation of the date even after the Council of
            Nicea,
            > St John
            > > Chrysostom said:
            > >
            > > Even if the Church made a mistake, exactness in the
            observance of
            > times
            > > would not be as important as the offense caused by this
            division
            > and this
            > > schism.
            > >
            > > (quoted from http://www.oca.org/Docs.asp?ID=133&SID=12,
            Concerning
            > the Date
            > > of Pascha and the First Ecumenical Council , by Bishop Peter)
            > >
            > > I think this quote can be applied to the Old Calendar / New
            Calendar
            > > question also. The issue isn't "astronomical accuracy", but
            rather
            > > ecclesiastical unity.
            > >
            > > That's why the New Calendar has been such a disaster for the
            > Church -- a
            > > disaster of disunity. And that's why I think the Western
            Church
            > has "got
            > > it wrong" in their calculation of the date of Pascha. The
            primary
            > issue
            > > here shouldn't be astronomical accuracy, but ecclesiastical
            unity.
            > The
            > > Gregorian calendar reform mixed up those priorities.
            > >
            > > God can send the grace of the Feast whenever He wants.
            Indeed, He
            > sends it
            > > at different times, even for those Orthodox who follow the
            same
            > calendar --
            > > first for those celebrating the Feast in the Eastern time
            zones,
            > then to
            > > those in the Western zones. He can send the grace of Pascha
            even
            > in the
            > > summertime, if the world lasts long enough for Julian Pascha
            to
            > occur in the
            > > summertime. That's not a big problem -- for example,
            Christmas is
            > already
            > > happening in the summer for those in the southern hemisphere.
            > Where is the
            > > substantive problem, if Pascha happens in the summer or the
            fall?
            > But
            > > disunity is a very substantive problem.
            > >
            > >
            > > Seraphim Larsen
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > On 7/5/07, Al Green < aggreen1@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > ***There's a commonly heldc belief in Orthodoxy that the
            Jewish
            > > > Passover must be completed before the celebration of
            Pascha. This
            > > > year, despite the common celebration with the western
            churches,
            > > > Passover was not completed until Tuesday of Bright Week.
            And,
            > there
            > > > seems to be no "Passover factor" anywhere in the Ecumenical
            > Council
            > > > relative to Passover and Pascha. I sometimes think the
            western
            > > > churches have got it right when it comes to calculating
            when
            > Easter
            > > > will occur. Comments anyone?
            > > >
            > > > Al
            > > >
            > > > --- In orthodox-
            > > > rocor@yahoogroups.com <rocor%
            > 40yahoogroups.com>, "Hristofor/ïz?ïz?ïz^ïz"ïzSïz"ïz?"
            > > > <hristofor01@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Actually I had read an article that John Paul II was in
            favor
            > of the
            > > > > Orthodox date for Pascha. Anyway, I am sure there will be
            o
            > support
            > > > for this
            > > > > in the ROC.
            > > > >
            > > > > Hristofor Shashkin
            > > > >
            > > > > On 7/4/07, Al Green <aggreen1@> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > ***The Ecumenical Patriarch and the Pope of Rome seem
            heck-
            > bent
            > > > on
            > > > > > being very palsy-walsy. Any thoughts on this article?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > http://www.directionstoorthodoxy.org/mod/news/view.php?
            > > > article_id=638
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Al
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --
            > > azseraphim@ â?§ http://www.linkedin.com/in/seraphimlarsen
            > >
            >
          • Al Green
            ... and so the ... Orthodox ... Pascha, it ... it. ***Question: Is this a supposition, or is there a mandate in any of the Ecumenical councils specifically
            Message 5 of 18 , Jul 6 5:19 PM
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              --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, seraphim <seraphim37@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > The establishment of the Paschal cycle was not a dogmatic issue,
              and so the
              > Orthodox Church can change it. But since it was the entire
              Orthodox
              > Church, in an Ecumenical Council, that established the date for
              Pascha, it
              > would need to be the entire Orthodox Church that agrees to change
              it.


              ***Question: Is this a supposition, or is there a "mandate" in any of
              the Ecumenical councils specifically stating that a council census is
              required to change the calendar? We all know that it would be
              virtually impossible to call an Ecumenical Council in this day and
              aged.

              Al
            • Reader Timothy Tadros
              And this would be seen as a great sign of capitulation on the part of the papacy. He gives up something and we Orthodox in turn would have to bow down before
              Message 6 of 18 , Jul 6 7:41 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                And this would be seen as a great sign of capitulation on the
                part of the papacy. He gives up something and we Orthodox in turn
                would have to bow down before the person that occupies the throne of
                St. Peter in Rome as the supreme exalted ruler of the Church. No
                Thanks! A false union of vainity.
                I was told their was a Serbian scientist who has a theory on how
                to correct both the Julian and Georgian calendars and create a new
                one that is both solar and lunar?
                Rdr Timothy Tadros

                --- In orthodox-
                rocor@yahoogroups.com, "Hristofor/ХристофорЪ"
                <hristofor01@...> wrote:
                >
                > Actually I had read an article that John Paul II was in favor of the
                > Orthodox date for Pascha. Anyway, I am sure there will be o support
                for this
                > in the ROC.
                >
                > Hristofor Shashkin
                >
                > On 7/4/07, Al Green <aggreen1@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > ***The Ecumenical Patriarch and the Pope of Rome seem heck-bent
                on
                > > being very palsy-walsy. Any thoughts on this article?
                > >
                > > http://www.directionstoorthodoxy.org/mod/news/view.php?
                article_id=638
                > >
                > > Al
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • Infowolf1@aol.com
                In a message dated 7/6/2007 7:42:59 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, pravoslavney@yahoo.com writes: And this would be seen as a great sign of capitulation on the
                Message 7 of 18 , Jul 6 10:43 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  In a message dated 7/6/2007 7:42:59 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, pravoslavney@... writes:
                  And this would be seen as a great sign of capitulation on the
                  part of the papacy. He gives up something and we Orthodox in turn
                  would have to bow down before the person that occupies the throne of
                  St. Peter in Rome as the supreme exalted ruler of the Church.
                   
                              Not if it is isn't a specified deal.
                   
                              Mary Christine Erikson




                  See what's free at AOL.com.
                • CW
                  I thought the question was, ...would there not be unity? As far as thinking goes as long as people have the ability to think and act upon those thoughts
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jul 7 10:11 AM
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                    I thought the question was, "...would there not be unity?"
                    As far as thinking goes as long as people have the ability to
                    think and act upon those thoughts there will always be diversity.
                    I believe that is the reason God established our Orthodox Faith
                    as He did.  We have order as long as we are under authority.  When
                    we move ourselves out from under that authority we have rejected
                    unity and are liable for damnation.
                     
                    Jéan-Claude Williams
                     
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Al Green
                    Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 8:16 PM
                    Subject: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Common Date for Pascha/Easter?

                    ***You make a point, Jean-Claude, but you may be mixing theology with
                    calendars. According to a United Nations study in 1997, there were at
                    that time more than 33,000 protestant denominations, cults, sects,
                    societies, associations and independents worldwide, and that the
                    number was growing by 10 to 12 nedw ones each day. True, this is
                    disunity. But, I would venture a guess that at least 99 percent of
                    them celebrate Easter according to the Gregorian calendar.

                    ***My Carpatho-Russian parish, BTW, follows the Julian Calendar.

                    Al

                    --- In orthodox-rocor@ yahoogroups. com, "CW" <rivendell740@ ...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > The Western church has been using Rome's calendar for over 500
                    years. In the United States alone there are countless Christian (?)
                    churches and none of them seem to have an abundance of unity. (Roman
                    Catholic, Lutheran (Various divisions), Methodist, Baptist (various
                    divisions), Fundamentalists and Sons of Thunder (a snake handling
                    group found in Kentucky, West Virginia, etc.)
                    > Jéan-Claude Williams
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: Al Green
                    > To: orthodox-rocor@ yahoogroups. com
                    > Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 7:23 AM
                    > Subject: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Common Date for Pascha/Easter?
                    >
                    >
                    > Food for Thought (or Comment): If we all followed the western
                    > reckoning (which seems to be the majority "Christian" opinion)
                    would
                    > there not be unity?
                    >
                    > Al
                    >
                    > --- In orthodox-rocor@ yahoogroups. com, seraphim <seraphim37@ >
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > On the question of the date of Pascha and some schismatics
                    who
                    > persisted in
                    > > their own calculation of the date even after the Council of
                    Nicea,
                    > St John
                    > > Chrysostom said:
                    > >
                    > > Even if the Church made a mistake, exactness in the
                    observance of
                    > times
                    > > would not be as important as the offense caused by this
                    division
                    > and this
                    > > schism.
                    > >
                    > > (quoted from http://www.oca. org/Docs. asp?ID=133& SID=12,
                    Concerning
                    > the Date
                    > > of Pascha and the First Ecumenical Council , by Bishop Peter)
                    > >
                    > > I think this quote can be applied to the Old Calendar / New
                    Calendar
                    > > question also. The issue isn't "astronomical accuracy", but
                    rather
                    > > ecclesiastical unity.
                    > >
                    > > That's why the New Calendar has been such a disaster for the
                    > Church -- a
                    > > disaster of disunity. And that's why I think the Western
                    Church
                    > has "got
                    > > it wrong" in their calculation of the date of Pascha. The
                    primary
                    > issue
                    > > here shouldn't be astronomical accuracy, but ecclesiastical
                    unity.
                    > The
                    > > Gregorian calendar reform mixed up those priorities.
                    > >
                    > > God can send the grace of the Feast whenever He wants.
                    Indeed, He
                    > sends it
                    > > at different times, even for those Orthodox who follow the
                    same
                    > calendar --
                    > > first for those celebrating the Feast in the Eastern time
                    zones,
                    > then to
                    > > those in the Western zones. He can send the grace of Pascha
                    even
                    > in the
                    > > summertime, if the world lasts long enough for Julian Pascha
                    to
                    > occur in the
                    > > summertime. That's not a big problem -- for example,
                    Christmas is
                    > already
                    > > happening in the summer for those in the southern hemisphere.
                    > Where is the
                    > > substantive problem, if Pascha happens in the summer or the
                    fall?
                    > But
                    > > disunity is a very substantive problem.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Seraphim Larsen
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > On 7/5/07, Al Green < aggreen1@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > ***There's a commonly heldc belief in Orthodoxy that the
                    Jewish
                    > > > Passover must be completed before the celebration of
                    Pascha. This
                    > > > year, despite the common celebration with the western
                    churches,
                    > > > Passover was not completed until Tuesday of Bright Week.
                    And,
                    > there
                    > > > seems to be no "Passover factor" anywhere in the Ecumenical
                    > Council
                    > > > relative to Passover and Pascha. I sometimes think the
                    western
                    > > > churches have got it right when it comes to calculating
                    when
                    > Easter
                    > > > will occur. Comments anyone?
                    > > >
                    > > > Al
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In orthodox-
                    > > > rocor@yahoogroups. com <rocor%
                    > 40yahoogroups. com>, "Hristofor/ïz?ïz?ïz^ïz"ïzSïz"ïz?"
                    > > > <hristofor01@ > wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Actually I had read an article that John Paul II was in
                    favor
                    > of the
                    > > > > Orthodox date for Pascha. Anyway, I am sure there will be
                    o
                    > support
                    > > > for this
                    > > > > in the ROC.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Hristofor Shashkin
                    > > > >
                    > > > > On 7/4/07, Al Green <aggreen1@> wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > ***The Ecumenical Patriarch and the Pope of Rome seem
                    heck-
                    > bent
                    > > > on
                    > > > > > being very palsy-walsy. Any thoughts on this article?
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > http://www.directio nstoorthodoxy. org/mod/news/ view.php?
                    > > > article_id=638
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Al
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > azseraphim@ â?§ http://www.linkedin .com/in/seraphim larsen
                    > >
                    >

                  • Infowolf1@aol.com
                    In a message dated 7/7/2007 11:00:01 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rivendell740@earthlink.net writes: We have order as long as we are under authority. When we
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jul 7 2:28 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      In a message dated 7/7/2007 11:00:01 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rivendell740@... writes:
                      We have order as long as we are under authority.  When
                      we move ourselves out from under that authority we have rejected
                      unity and are liable for damnation
                                  Actually that sounds a little Roman. The unity of the Orthodox,
                                  I a mere student, keep reading and being told here and there online
                                  is a unity of belief. There is also the unity of the bishops cooperating
                                  in synod, and of the patriarchs getting together once in a while.
                       
                                  Mary Christine Erikson




                      See what's free at AOL.com.
                    • Dimitra Dwelley
                      I disagree. I do not think that authority and hierarchy are Latin inventions, but rather shared from the very beginning. Papal authority is another thing
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jul 7 8:41 PM
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                        I disagree.  I do not think that authority and hierarchy are Latin inventions, but rather shared from the very beginning.  Papal authority is another thing altogether, but there is a hierarchy in the Orthodox church and we are told quite plainly in St. Paul's epistles to "submit to those who have the rule over" us.  It's just that when you get to the top of the ladder in the Orthodox church, you have all the Patriarchs, not just the one of Rome. 
                          
                        --Dimitra Dwelley
                         
                         
                        ----- Original Message ----
                        From: "Infowolf1@..." <Infowolf1@...>
                        To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2007 5:28:51 PM
                        Subject: Re: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Common Date for Pascha/Easter?

                        In a message dated 7/7/2007 11:00:01 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rivendell740@ earthlink. net writes:
                        We have order as long as we are under authority.  When
                        we move ourselves out from under that authority we have rejected
                        unity and are liable for damnation
                                    Actually that sounds a little Roman. The unity of the Orthodox,
                                    I a mere student, keep reading and being told here and there online
                                    is a unity of belief. There is also the unity of the bishops cooperating
                                    in synod, and of the patriarchs getting together once in a while.
                         
                                    Mary Christine Erikson



                        See what's free at AOL.com.



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