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Re: [orthodox-rocor] PAL players - was Re: "Ostrov" and rejoicing

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  • Stephen/Στέφανος
    They don t want to get into trouble with Hollywood, so they don t tell you that many players can be hacked ,  i.e. you punch in a code with your remote
    Message 1 of 23 , Feb 28, 2007
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      They don't want to get into trouble with Hollywood, so they don't tell you that many players can be "hacked",  i.e. you punch in a code with your remote control,  and the DVD player becomes region and zone free!    Phillips has built-in PAL converters; BUT  you have to punch in the hack.    See my next e-mail message for more info.

      Stephanos Upton


      Archpriest David Moser wrote:

      --- In orthodox-rocor@ yahoogroups. com, Dimitra Dwelley
      <ochichernie2@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > It won't play on my regular DVD player, so I think you'd need a
      region-free, PAL-capable "international" player.
      >
      >

      The other day I went to Best Buy to look at purchasing a new DVD
      player that would cover both NTSC and PAL. I looked and looked and
      didn't find anything that listed either format. So I asked the guy
      and was shocked by his answer. Best Buy does not carry a DVD player
      that can cope with PAL. They carry all kinds of high end equipment,
      the latest HD video home theater stuff with all the bells and whistles
      - but nothing that will play a PAL format dvd. He suggested that I
      should go to Target and get a cheap player that will play DVD (he was
      serious, not being sarcastic in any way). Well Target was a bit of a
      bust, but apparently Walmart carries a DVD player that goes both ways.
      So off to the "evil empire" of Walmart to look for a new DVD player.

      Archpr David Moser

    • Vladimir Koltypin
      This is in Russian. This is what was said by a Russian Bishop about us, the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad. I appologize to those who read English only. The
      Message 2 of 23 , Mar 1, 2007
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        This is in Russian. This is what was said by a Russian Bishop about us, the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad. I appologize to those who read English only. The jist of it says that "We" have not kept the Purity of Orthodoxy. Apparently "We" need instructions. Again my condolences.
         
         
         
        Vladimir Koltypin


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      • Vladimir Boikov
        I am sorry Vladimir, but you forgot your glasses - there is nothing in your link about US In Christ, Fr Vladimir Boikov NZ ... From: Vladimir Koltypin
        Message 3 of 23 , Mar 1, 2007
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          I am sorry Vladimir, but you forgot your glasses - there is nothing in your
          link about "US"

          In Christ,
          Fr Vladimir Boikov
          NZ
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Vladimir Koltypin" <vkolt73@...>
          To: <orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, 2 March 2007 6:41 a.m.
          Subject: [orthodox-rocor] News from Russia


          > This is in Russian. This is what was said by a Russian Bishop about us,
          > the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad. I appologize to those who read English
          > only. The jist of it says that "We" have not kept the Purity of Orthodoxy.
          > Apparently "We" need instructions. Again my condolences.
          >
          >
          > http://lenta.ru/news/2007/03/01/priest/_Printed.htm
          >
          > Vladimir Koltypin
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.
        • Hristofor/ХристофорЪ
          Vladimir, You either sent the wrong link or have not read the article. There was no reference to ROCOR at all and Bishop Diomid was in fact writing about
          Message 4 of 23 , Mar 1, 2007
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            Vladimir,

            You either sent the wrong link or have not read the article. There was no reference to ROCOR at all and Bishop Diomid was in fact writing about problems he sees within the ROC.

            Hristofor Shashkin

            On 3/1/07, Vladimir Koltypin <vkolt73@...> wrote:

            This is in Russian. This is what was said by a Russian Bishop about us, the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad. I appologize to those who read English only. The jist of it says that "We" have not kept the Purity of Orthodoxy. Apparently "We" need instructions. Again my condolences.
             
             
             
            Vladimir Koltypin


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          • akomendantov
            ... us, the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad. I appologize to those who read English only. The jist of it says that We have not kept the Purity of Orthodoxy.
            Message 5 of 23 , Mar 1, 2007
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              --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, Vladimir Koltypin <vkolt73@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > This is in Russian. This is what was said by a Russian Bishop about
              us, the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad. I appologize to those who read
              English only. The jist of it says that "We" have not kept the Purity of
              Orthodoxy. Apparently "We" need instructions. Again my condolences.
              >

              Sorry Vladimir, you gotta read more carefully! This is a letter from
              an MP bishop critical of the MP Patriarch and senior bishops for many
              of the same reasons cited in these forums. The difference in approach,
              however, is of utmost importance. He says we must address and fix
              these problems in our church (the MP) -- not to go into schisms becuase
              we don't like what we see. **Nothing** is said about ROCOR in this
              letter.

              Andrew Komendantov
            • Dimitra Dwelley
              I think we have to be careful about being too quick to cheer Bishop Diomid on. It sounds good on the surface, but one thing I know: there has been a great
              Message 6 of 23 , Mar 1, 2007
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                I think we have to be careful about being too quick to cheer Bishop Diomid on.  It sounds good on the surface, but one thing I know: there has been a great objection to the INN (personal identification number--just like our Social Security Number) in the past, and some people called it of the antichrist and refused to take it or tried to get it stopped or revoked--just like the "bespassportniki" would not take Soviet passports (and I myself was very concerned about it) -- but Starets Ioann Krestyankin did not approve of this view:
                 
                (following from discussion of the book May God Give You Wisdom! The Letters of Fr. John Krestiankin (published by Sretensky Monastery and St. Xenia Skete):
                 
                "In the section entitled “Letters about the Seal of Antichrist and the Last Days,” we see clearly how the faithful in Russia looked to Fr. John as the spiritual authority who could resolve their perplexities and calm their distress over the various modern means of census-taking, and the tax and personal identification numbers only recently introduced in Russia. Although Westerners have long been used to “social security” numbers and computerization, this new system, which looks all too apocalyptic, caused great havoc among believers in Russia, even to the point of schism, departures from monasteries and parishes that had received tax identification numbers, and in rare but exceedingly alarming cases, suicide by those who had taken new passports or numbers and then been told by some “zealous” priest that they were now inescapably doomed to eternal perdition. It is fair to say that Fr. John’s pastoral letters on this subject played probably the greatest role in resolving the schisms occurring in the Church. This collection of pastoral letters could also be applied to any existing tendency to over-sensationalize the “Last Days” in ignorance of patristic teachings on them, and lack of concern for each individual’s “personal last day”—the day of his death. "

                http://www.pravoslavie.ru/enarticles/070202150642

                 

                Further on, Archimandrite Tikhon Shevkunov, a spiritual son of Fr. John's, writes about Fr. John's attitude towards the INN:

                 

                "This applies also to the trials our Church has experienced over the recent decades: reformist tendencies on the one hand, and on the other, morbid eschatological moods. In both cases, Fr. John exercised discernment, showing love for those who were confused spiritually due to faulty reasoning and the enemy's snares, yet warning of the harm which they were actively and even viciously ready to bring to the Church. Nearly a century of Church life gave Fr. John a serious advantage in the discernment of spirits, in determining what one or another distraction, renovation, or "zeal not according to knowledge" (cf. Rom. 10:2) might bring. Truly, there is nothing new under the sun. "I will not participate in your campaign," he wrote to one young and very sincere hieromonk, who was proposing that Fr. John participate in the movement "Life without the Social Security Number." He wrote, "The very spirit of such activity, with its abundant selfishness, noise, and hope in man rather than in God, yes, and especially with its criticism of the Church hierarchy, which springs out like a fountain in your words, forbids me to do so. I have already seen such things in the activities of the renovationists, who rose up against the most gentle Patriarch Tikon, in fact, against the Lord Himself and His Church."

                Fr. John many times expressed his sober and deeply considered reaction to the problems of the global computer accounting system and other similar tendencies of the modern world. This has all been published in many places and has served for many as a cause of spiritual peace, calming of the spirit of revolt, and trust in the Russian Orthodox Church. For others it unfortunately served as a reason to attack Fr. John, and even to slander him outright."

                 

                It seems to me that this Bishop Diomed falls into the same category of clergy of which Fr. John disapproves: ones who, under these pretexts, condemn the hierarchy of the Church and cause confusion to the faithful.  So one has a choice: to value Archimandrite Ioann Krestyankin as a bona fide starets and to be at peace with his words, or to take the fearful position of considering oneself higher than such a spiritual light and condemning Fr. Ioann in order to support someone like this Diomid.

                 

                Well, just sharing my own thoughts on the matter--"thinking out loud" again, not with the purpose of debating.

                 

                --Dimitra Dwelley

                 

                PS:  There may, indeed, be some things that need "fixing," but in general one should look at how a person proposes to do this--with respect for the Church, or with a manner that will tear apart the Church....

                 

                ----- Original Message ----
                From: Hristofor/ХристофорЪ <hristofor01@...>
                To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2007 2:31:14 PM
                Subject: Re: [orthodox-rocor] News from Russia

                Vladimir,

                You either sent the wrong link or have not read the article. There was no reference to ROCOR at all and Bishop Diomid was in fact writing about problems he sees within the ROC.

                Hristofor Shashkin

                On 3/1/07, Vladimir Koltypin <vkolt73@yahoo. com> wrote:

                This is in Russian. This is what was said by a Russian Bishop about us, the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad. I appologize to those who read English only. The jist of it says that "We" have not kept the Purity of Orthodoxy. Apparently "We" need instructions. Again my condolences.
                 
                 
                 
                Vladimir Koltypin


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              • Dimitra Dwelley
                Hmm--my previous long post about this was written just from the description of his letter--I hadn t yet read the letter itself. I didn t see the part about
                Message 7 of 23 , Mar 1, 2007
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                  Hmm--my previous long post about this was written just from the description of his letter--I hadn't yet read the letter itself.  I didn't see the part about his saying we must address and fix
                  these problems in our church (the MP) -- not to go into schisms becuase
                  we don't like what we see.  That makes me feel somewhat better about it.  I still can't find that part--can you point me to it?  Is it in the first page (description) or in the letter itself, and, what paragraph?
                   
                  Thanks a lot!
                   
                  --Dimitra Dwelley

                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: akomendantov <akomendantov@...>
                  To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2007 3:46:32 PM
                  Subject: [orthodox-rocor] Re: News from Russia

                  --- In orthodox-rocor@ yahoogroups. com, Vladimir Koltypin <vkolt73@... >
                  wrote:

                  >
                  > This is in Russian. This is what was said by a Russian Bishop about
                  us, the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad. I appologize to those who read
                  English only. The jist of it says that "We" have not kept the Purity of
                  Orthodoxy. Apparently "We" need instructions. Again my condolences.
                  >

                  Sorry Vladimir, you gotta read more carefully! This is a letter from
                  an MP bishop critical of the MP Patriarch and senior bishops for many
                  of the same reasons cited in these forums. The difference in approach,
                  however, is of utmost importance. He says we must address and fix
                  these problems in our church (the MP) -- not to go into schisms becuase
                  we don't like what we see. **Nothing** is said about ROCOR in this
                  letter.

                  Andrew Komendantov




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                  always stay connected to friends.
                • franthony@ellijay.com
                  My very rough translation. Deacon Anthony Bridges Чукотский епископ обвинил РПЦ в отступлении от чистоты
                  Message 8 of 23 , Mar 1, 2007
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                    My very rough translation. Deacon Anthony Bridges

                    ��������� ������� ������� ��� � ����������� �� ������� ����

                    Headline: The Bishop of Chukot accused the ROC of a retreat
                    from the purity of the faith

                    � ���������� ���������� ���������� �������. ������� ����������
                    � ��������� ������ ����������� �������� ������ "�� ���� ������
                    ����� ������ ������������ ������", ������� ����������� �������
                    ������������ ������ (���) � "������������ �� �������
                    ������������� ����������".

                    This [accusation] caused a scandal in the Moscow Patriarchate.
                    Bishop Diomid of Anadyr and Chukot published an open letter "To
                    All True children of the Holy Orthodox Church", after accusing
                    the leadership of the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC)
                    of "retreats from the purity of Orthodox dogma".

                    �������� � ������� ������������������ ��� ������� � �����
                    ��������� �������� ���������� "���������� �� ���� �����������
                    �� ������� �������������, ��������������, �������������
                    ���������� � �������� ����� ��������� ��������". ��� ��������
                    ������ "����� ��������", ��������� ������� ���������� ������
                    ���������� ���������� ���������.

                    The hierarch and four clergymen of his diocese in their
                    circular issued a call for the Patriarchate "to turn from the
                    way of retreat from the purity of evangelical, dogmatic,
                    canonical dogma and to bring fruits worthy of repentance." As
                    noted by the newspaper "New Proceedings," the Chukots Vladyka
                    actually called the hierarchical authorities heretics.

                    ������� ������ �������� ���������� � "�������� ���������������,
                    ����������� ��������� ������ �������, �������� �������������
                    ������, � ����� �������������� �������", � ����� � "����������
                    �������� ������ ��������� ������������ �������� ������������
                    ������, ���������� � ������� �����������, ����������������
                    ������� � ������ ���������� ������������".

                    Bishop Diomid reproaches the Patriarchate for "spiritual
                    compromise, which subordinates the church�s authority to
                    mundane, often bogoborcheskoy authority, to the detriment of
                    God-given freedom", and also in the "tacit agreement with,
                    instead of the exposure of, the antinational policy of the
                    existing authority, which leads to the disintegration of the
                    state, to demographic crisis, and to other negative
                    consequences".

                    ����� ����, �������� �������� ������������� "��������� ��������
                    ���������� � ����� � ������ ����������� ������ ����������
                    ������ � �������� ��������� ��� ������� ������ �������������".
                    ����� ������ ����� � ������ ������� ������� ��� � �������������
                    �������� (�������� �� ����������� ���� ������������ �������).
                    �� ������ �������, ������������ �������������� ������ "��������
                    ������� ��������� �������������, �������������� ������ �������
                    �������� ������, �� ���� ����������". � �������� ��������� ���
                    ������� "���� ������������������� ���� � ������ "����������".
                    ������� � ���� �� ��������. "�� �� �������, ��� � ���
                    ���� "���������" � �������, ������������ � ������� ���������", -
                    ���������� � ��������.

                    Furthermore, the hierarch expresses concern with the "flouting
                    of the principle of conciliarity in connection with the long
                    neglect of calling a Local Council, and the transfer of his
                    most important functions to the Hierarchical Council". Also
                    considerable place in the letter is given to the participation
                    of the ROC in the ecumenical movement (the movement for
                    bringing together of all Christian churches). In the opinion of
                    Diomid, last year's summit of religions "recognizes the
                    worldwide Masonic rule, prepares for the arrival of a one-world
                    leader, that is, antichrist". In the final document of that
                    meeting "was testified the faith in one" Most High." The Bishop
                    does not agree with this. "We do not agree that there is
                    one �Most High� together with the Jews, Moslems, and other
                    religions", it is noted in the message.

                    ����� ������ ����� ������ ������ �� ���, ��������, ��� ��� ���
                    ����� ���������� "���������� � ������������� ������������
                    ������������� �������". � ���������� ������ ������ �������
                    ��������� "���� ��� ������� ������������ ������" ���������� ���
                    ���������, � ���� "�����������" �� ������������� ���������� -
                    "�������� ����� ��������� ��������". ������ ��� �������������
                    �������� ������� � ���� ���������, � ����� ������ ���
                    �������� "�� ������� ������� � ������ ������".

                    Also Diomid again raised a question about INN, utverzhaya, that
                    for the ROC became criminal, "its justification and blessings
                    of the personal identification of citizens." In the conclusion
                    of his letter the bishop issues a call to "all faithful
                    children of the Russian Orthodox Church" to support his
                    circular, and all "defectors" from the canonical dogma - "to
                    bring fruits worthy of repentance." Diomid gave blessings for
                    the gathering of signatures in his support, and the text of
                    letter was sent out "to thousands of addresses and hundreds of
                    sites."

                    ������, ��� ������� ������, ��� �������� ���� ������������� ���
                    ���������� � �������� � ��������� "������ �� ������!". ��
                    ��������� �������, ������ ������� ���� � ������� �������
                    �������� ��������� ����������� � ���� ���� ������� II �
                    �������� �������. ������ �� ������� ������������ ���������,
                    ��������� ���������� ������, �������� ������� ������ ��������
                    �����.

                    True, the bishop himself stated that the message was intended
                    for publication in the compilation called "We do not fear fear
                    itself!" According to the publication information, Diomid�s
                    epistle was quickly transmitted to the Patriarch of Moscow and
                    all Russia, Aleksii II, in the middle February. However, he put
                    off examination of the document since the first, especially
                    strict week of Great Lent, began.


                    ---------Included Message----------
                    >Date: 1-mar-2007 14:05:10 -0500
                    >From: "Vladimir Koltypin" <vkolt73@...>
                    >Reply-To: <orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com>
                    >To: <orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com>
                    >Subject: [orthodox-rocor] News from Russia
                    >
                    >This is in Russian. This is what was said by a Russian Bishop
                    about us, the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad. I appologize to
                    those who read English only. The jist of it says that "We" have
                    not kept the Purity of Orthodoxy. Apparently "We" need
                    instructions. Again my condolences.
                    >
                    >
                    > http://lenta.ru/news/2007/03/01/priest/_Printed.htm
                    >
                    > Vladimir Koltypin
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >---------------------------------
                    >Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers.
                    Try it now.
                    >
                    ---------End of Included Message----------
                  • Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                    Bishop Diomid does not mention the Church Abroad AT ALL! He speaks internally about the Moscow Patriarchate only!!! ... us, the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad.
                    Message 9 of 23 , Mar 1, 2007
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                      Bishop Diomid does not mention the Church Abroad AT ALL! He speaks
                      internally about the Moscow Patriarchate only!!!
                      ====================================


                      --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, Vladimir Koltypin
                      <vkolt73@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > This is in Russian. This is what was said by a Russian Bishop about
                      us, the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad. I appologize to those who
                      read English only. The jist of it says that "We" have not kept the
                      Purity of Orthodoxy. Apparently "We" need instructions. Again my
                      condolences.
                      >
                      >
                      > http://lenta.ru/news/2007/03/01/priest/_Printed.htm
                      >
                      > Vladimir Koltypin
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ---------------------------------
                      > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it
                      now.
                      >
                    • Dimitra Dwelley
                      Just some perspective: One point left out in the below summary but existing in the letter itself: Point 5 of Bishop Diomid s accusations was: Approval of
                      Message 10 of 23 , Mar 1, 2007
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                        Just some perspective:
                         
                        One point left out in the below summary but existing in the letter itself:  "Point 5" of Bishop Diomid's accusations was: "Approval of democracy."  By this measure, all Americans would be accused by him.
                         
                        Point 4 is "Approval of the PIN (Personal Idenficiation Number)," which is the Russian equivalent of our Social Security Number.  Again, by this measure, since every American over the age of 18, or even younger, has such a number, all of us would stand accused, and our Russian Church Abroad, too, which does not speak out against having a Social Security Number.
                         
                         The article says the letter has caused a huge scandal.  The Saviour had pretty strong words for those who would scandalize "one of these little ones."  Interestingly, Bishop Diomid himself quotes the Saviour's words:
                         
                        "Данное обращение составлено во исполнение слов Христа Спасителя: «Если же согрешит против тебя брат твой, пойди и обличи его между тобою и им одним; если послушает тебя, то приобрел ты брата твоего; если же не послушает, возьми с собою еще одного или двух, дабы устами двух или трех свидетелей подтвердилось всякое слово; "
                         
                        Does he call mass-publishing an open letter to thousands of the faithful the fulfillment of  "go and show him his fault, between thee and him alone"?  Or even, bringing "one or two more witnesses" with him?  Notice, the Saviour does not start out with publishing on the Internet...  Maybe bringing these things up in a constructive way at a Synod meeting or hierarchical sobor would be a more churchly way to start?
                         
                        In a different article from the same journal NI, the Metropolitan of Smolensk and Kaliningrad Kirill feels the letter is calculated to try to foil  the signing of the Act and the reunification of the Russian Orthodox Church. 
                         
                         

                         

                        --Dimitra Dwelley

                         

                        PS:  Welcome to the Great Fast, time of temptations....

                         

                         



                        ----- Original Message ----
                        From: "franthony@..." <franthony@...>
                        To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
                        Cc: Fr Anthony Bridges <franthony@...>
                        Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2007 5:49:12 PM
                        Subject: Re: [orthodox-rocor] News from Russia

                        My very rough translation. Deacon Anthony Bridges

                        ×óêîòñêèé åïèñêîï îáâèíèë ÐÏÖ â îòñòóïëåíèè îò ÷èñòîòû âåðû

                        Headline: The Bishop of Chukot accused the ROC of a retreat
                        from the purity of the faith

                        Â Ìîñêîâñêîé ïàòðèàðõèè ðàçðàçèëñÿ ñêàíäàë. Åïèñêîï Àíàäûðñêèé
                        è ×óêîòñêèé Äèîìèä îïóáëèêîâàë îòêðûòîå ïèñüìî "Êî âñåì âåðíûì
                        ÷àäàì ñâÿòîé ïðàâîñëàâíîé öåðêâè", îáâèíèâ ðóêîâîäñòâî Ðóññêîé
                        ïðàâîñëàâíîé öåðêâè (ÐÏÖ) â "îòñòóïëåíèÿõ îò ÷èñòîòû
                        ïðàâîñëàâíîãî âåðîó÷åíèÿ".

                        This [accusation] caused a scandal in the Moscow Patriarchate.
                        Bishop Diomid of Anadyr and Chukot published an open letter "To
                        All True children of the Holy Orthodox Church", after accusing
                        the leadership of the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC)
                        of "retreats from the purity of Orthodox dogma".

                        Àðõèåðåé è ÷åòâåðî ñâÿùåííîñëóæèòåëåé åãî åïàðõèè â ñâîåì
                        îáðàùåíèè ïðèçâàëè ïàòðèàðõèþ "îáðàòèòüñÿ îò ïóòè îòñòóïëåíèÿ
                        îò ÷èñòîòû åâàíãåëüñêîãî, äîãìàòè÷åñêîãî, êàíîíè÷åñêîãî
                        âåðîó÷åíèÿ è ïðèíåñòè ïëîäû äîñòîéíûå ïîêàÿíèÿ". Êàê îòìå÷àåò
                        ãàçåòà "Íîâûå Èçâåñòèÿ", ÷óêîòñêèé âëàäûêà ôàêòè÷åñêè íàçâàë
                        âñåìîãóùåå íà÷àëüñòâî åðåòèêàìè.

                        The hierarch and four clergymen of his diocese in their
                        circular issued a call for the Patriarchate "to turn from the
                        way of retreat from the purity of evangelical, dogmatic,
                        canonical dogma and to bring fruits worthy of repentance." As
                        noted by the newspaper "New Proceedings," the Chukots Vladyka
                        actually called the hierarchical authorities heretics.

                        Åïèñêîï Äèîìèä óïðåêàåò ïàòðèàðõèþ â "äóõîâíîì ñîãëàøàòåëüñòâå,
                        ïîä÷èíÿþùåì öåðêîâíóþ âëàñòü ìèðñêîé, çà÷àñòóþ áîãîáîð÷åñêîé
                        âëàñòè, â óùåðá áîãîäàðîâàííîé ñâîáîäå", à òàêæå â "ìîë÷àëèâîì
                        ñîãëàñèè âìåñòî îáëè÷åíèÿ àíòèíàðîäíîé ïîëèòèêè ñóùåñòâóþùåé
                        âëàñòè, ïðèâîäÿùåé ê ðàñïàäó ãîñóäàðñòâà, äåìîãðàôè÷åñêîìó
                        êðèçèñó è äðóãèì íåãàòèâíûì ïîñëåäñòâèÿì".

                        Bishop Diomid reproaches the Patriarchate for "spiritual
                        compromise, which subordinates the church’s authority to
                        mundane, often bogoborcheskoy authority, to the detriment of
                        God-given freedom", and also in the "tacit agreement with,
                        instead of the exposure of, the antinational policy of the
                        existing authority, which leads to the disintegration of the
                        state, to demographic crisis, and to other negative
                        consequences".

                        Êðîìå òîãî, àðõèåðåé âûðàæàåò îçàáî÷åííîñòü "ïîïðàíèåì ïðèíöèïà
                        ñîáîðíîñòè â ñâÿçè ñ äîëãèì îòñóòñòâèåì ñîçûâà Ïîìåñòíîãî
                        Ñîáîðà è ïåðåäà÷è âàæíåéøèõ åãî ôóíêöèé Ñîáîðó àðõèåðåéñêîìó".
                        Òàêæå íåìàëî ìåñòà â ïèñüìå óäåëåíî ó÷àñòèþ ÐÏÖ â ýêóìåíè÷åñêîì
                        äâèæåíèè (äâèæåíèè çà îáúåäèíåíèå âñåõ õðèñòèàíñêèõ öåðêâåé).
                        Ïî ìíåíèþ Äèîìèäà, ïðîøëîãîäíèé ìåæðåëèãèîçíûé ñàììèò "ïðèçíàåò
                        ìèðîâîå ìàñîíñêîå ïðàâèòåëüñòâî, ïîäãîòàâëèâàåò ïðèõîä åäèíîãî
                        ìèðîâîãî ëèäåðà, òî åñòü àíòèõðèñòà". Â èòîãîâîì äîêóìåíòå òîé
                        âñòðå÷è "áûëà çàñâèäåòåëüñòâîâàíà âåðà â îäíîãî "Âñåâûøíåãî".
                        Åïèñêîï ñ ýòèì íå ñîãëàñåí. "Ìû íå ñ÷èòàåì, ÷òî ó íàñ
                        îäèí "Âñåâûøíèé" ñ èóäåÿìè, ìóñóëüìàíàìè è ïðî÷èìè ðåëèãèÿìè", -
                        îòìå÷àåòñÿ â ïîñëàíèè.

                        Furthermore, the hierarch expresses concern with the "flouting
                        of the principle of conciliarity in connection with the long
                        neglect of calling a Local Council, and the transfer of his
                        most important functions to the Hierarchical Council". Also
                        considerable place in the letter is given to the participation
                        of the ROC in the ecumenical movement (the movement for
                        bringing together of all Christian churches). In the opinion of
                        Diomid, last year's summit of religions "recognizes the
                        worldwide Masonic rule, prepares for the arrival of a one-world
                        leader, that is, antichrist". In the final document of that
                        meeting "was testified the faith in one" Most High." The Bishop
                        does not agree with this. "We do not agree that there is
                        one ‘Most High’ together with the Jews, Moslems, and other
                        religions", it is noted in the message.

                        Òàêæå Äèîìèä âíîâü ïîäíÿë âîïðîñ îá ÈÍÍ, óòâåðæàÿ, ÷òî äëÿ ÐÏÖ
                        ñòàëî ïðåñòóïíûì "îïðàâäàíèå è áëàãîñëîâåíèå ïåðñîíàëüíîé
                        èäåíòèôèêàöèè ãðàæäàí".  çàêëþ÷åíèè ñâîåãî ïèñüìà åïèñêîï
                        ïðèçûâàåò "âñåõ ÷àä Ðóññêîé ïðàâîñëàâíîé öåðêâè" ïîääåðæàòü åãî
                        îáðàùåíèå, à âñåõ "îòñòóïíèêîâ" îò êàíîíè÷åñêîãî âåðîó÷åíèÿ -
                        "ïðèíåñòè ïëîäû äîñòîéíûå ïîêàÿíèÿ". Äèîìèä äàë áëàãîñëîâåíèå
                        ñîáèðàòü ïîäïèñè â ñâîþ ïîääåðæêó, à òåêñò ïèñüìà áûë
                        ðàçîñëàí "ïî òûñÿ÷àì àäðåñîâ è ñîòíÿì ñàéòîâ".

                        Also Diomid again raised a question about INN, utverzhaya, that
                        for the ROC became criminal, "its justification and blessings
                        of the personal identification of citizens." In the conclusion
                        of his letter the bishop issues a call to "all faithful
                        children of the Russian Orthodox Church" to support his
                        circular, and all "defectors" from the canonical dogma - "to
                        bring fruits worthy of repentance." Diomid gave blessings for
                        the gathering of signatures in his support, and the text of
                        letter was sent out "to thousands of addresses and hundreds of
                        sites."

                        Ïðàâäà, ñàì åïèñêîï çàÿâèë, ÷òî ïîñëàíèå áûëî ïðåäíàçíà÷åíî äëÿ
                        ïóáëèêàöèè â ñáîðíèêå ñ íàçâàíèåì "Ñòðàõà íå áîèìñÿ!". Ïî
                        ñâåäåíèÿì èçäàíèÿ, ïèñüìî Äèîìèäà áûëî â ñðî÷íîì ïîðÿäêå
                        ïåðåäàíî Ïàòðèàðõó Ìîñêîâñêîìó è Âñåÿ Ðóñè Àëåêñèþ II â
                        ñåðåäèíå ôåâðàëÿ. Îäíàêî îí îòëîæèë ðàññìîòðåíèå äîêóìåíòà,
                        ïîñêîëüêó íà÷èíàëàñü ïåðâàÿ, îñîáåííî ñòðîãàÿ íåäåëÿ Âåëèêîãî
                        ïîñòà.

                        True, the bishop himself stated that the message was intended
                        for publication in the compilation called "We do not fear fear
                        itself!" According to the publication information, Diomid’s
                        epistle was quickly transmitted to the Patriarch of Moscow and
                        all Russia, Aleksii II, in the middle February. However, he put
                        off examination of the document since the first, especially
                        strict week of Great Lent, began.


                        ---------Included Message----------
                        >Date: 1-mar-2007 14:05:10 -0500
                        >From: "Vladimir Koltypin" <vkolt73@...>
                        >Reply-To: <orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com>
                        >To: <orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com>
                        >Subject: [orthodox-rocor] News from Russia
                        >
                        >This is in Russian. This is what was said by a Russian Bishop
                        about us, the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad. I appologize to
                        those who read English only. The jist of it says that "We" have
                        not kept the Purity of Orthodoxy. Apparently "We" need
                        instructions. Again my condolences.
                        >  
                        >  
                        >  
                        href="http://lenta.ru/news/2007/03/01/priest/_Printed.htm" target=_blank>http://lenta.ru/news/2007/03/01/priest/_Printed.htm
                        >  
                        >  Vladimir Koltypin
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >---------------------------------
                        >Any questions?  Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers.
                        Try it now.
                        >
                        ---------End of Included Message----------




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                      • Infowolf1@aol.com
                        In a message dated 3/1/2007 7:16:29 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, ochichernie2@yahoo.com writes: Although Westerners have long been used to “social security”
                        Message 11 of 23 , Mar 1, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          In a message dated 3/1/2007 7:16:29 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, ochichernie2@... writes:
                          Although Westerners have long been used to “social security” numbers and computerization, this new system, which looks all too apocalyptic, caused great havoc among believers in Russia, even to the point of schism, departures from monasteries and parishes that had received tax identification numbers, and in rare but exceedingly alarming cases, suicide by those who had taken new passports or numbers and then been told by some “zealous” priest that they were now inescapably doomed to eternal perdition.
                           
                                  the interesting thing about all this, whether among evangelical protestants and
                                  so forth here, where it is hollered loud and clear, or in Russia, none of these
                                  prophecy experts seem to be bother to read the Bible.
                           
                                  The Number of the Beast is the number of HIS name not of YOUR name.
                                  
                                  It is not a personal identifier, that lists you as distinct from all other humans,
                           
                                  it is a class identifier, a static tattoo that is identical among all who have,
                                  like gang "colors" or stuff like that, a club insignia. It refers not to the
                                  individual as such, but to those who are of the class of people that have
                                  worshipped the antichrist, as opposed to those who are of the class of
                                  people that have NOT worshipped the antichrist.
                           
                                  Mary Christine




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                        • akomendantov
                          ... wrote: I didn t see the part about his saying we must address and fix ... becuase we don t like what we see. That makes me feel
                          Message 12 of 23 , Mar 2, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, Dimitra Dwelley
                            <ochichernie2@...> wrote:

                            I didn't see the part about his saying we must address and fix
                            > these problems in our church (the MP) -- not to go into schisms
                            becuase we don't like what we see. That makes me feel somewhat
                            better about it. I still can't find that part--can you point me to
                            it? Is it in the first page (description) or in the letter itself,
                            and, what paragraph?

                            Sorry Dimitra. I was reading the original "epistle" and a phone
                            interview with the bishop at the same time. The news article (in its
                            selective p.o.v.) chose not to mention this important point. It's
                            right up front in the interview below:

                            http://www.christian-spirit.ru/Pages/int_vl_Diomid.htm

                            Para. 2:

                            "I, Diomid, ruling Bishop of the Anadyr-Chukotka Diocese, am not a
                            schismatic. I do not separate myself from the Mother Church and
                            consider myself a son of my Church. And, in fact, these problems
                            must be resolved."

                            Andrew Komendantov
                          • Al Green
                            ***You write sensible words, Andrew. Too bad the folks at St. Nicholas parish in Endicott, NY, couldn t be more like the good Vladyka Diomid. Schism, as we all
                            Message 13 of 23 , Mar 2, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              ***You write sensible words, Andrew. Too bad the folks at St.
                              Nicholas parish in Endicott, NY, couldn't be more like the good
                              Vladyka Diomid. Schism, as we all know, proves and solves nothing.

                              Al


                              --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "akomendantov"
                              <akomendantov@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, Dimitra Dwelley
                              > <ochichernie2@> wrote:
                              >
                              > I didn't see the part about his saying we must address and fix
                              > > these problems in our church (the MP) -- not to go into schisms
                              > becuase we don't like what we see. That makes me feel somewhat
                              > better about it. I still can't find that part--can you point me to
                              > it? Is it in the first page (description) or in the letter itself,
                              > and, what paragraph?
                              >
                              > Sorry Dimitra. I was reading the original "epistle" and a phone
                              > interview with the bishop at the same time. The news article (in
                              its
                              > selective p.o.v.) chose not to mention this important point. It's
                              > right up front in the interview below:
                              >
                              > http://www.christian-spirit.ru/Pages/int_vl_Diomid.htm
                              >
                              > Para. 2:
                              >
                              > "I, Diomid, ruling Bishop of the Anadyr-Chukotka Diocese, am not a
                              > schismatic. I do not separate myself from the Mother Church and
                              > consider myself a son of my Church. And, in fact, these problems
                              > must be resolved."
                              >
                              > Andrew Komendantov
                              >
                            • Dimitra Dwelley
                              Thanks, Andrew! In spite of what he says about not being a schismatic and being a son of the Church, he has chosen means to publish these things that could
                              Message 14 of 23 , Mar 2, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Thanks, Andrew! 
                                 
                                    In spite of what he says about not being a schismatic and being a son of the Church, he has chosen means to publish these things that could incite Christ's "little ones" to schism.  I just have to wonder, when a hierarch chooses to cause scandal to the faithful, rather than bringing these issues up in a more fruitful manner at a hierarchical sobor... 
                                    Do they have a sobor that includes all the bishops, besides the "Pomestny Sobor"?  Or does he want a Pomestny Sobor because that's the only way he himself can talk?  Would that be the type, same as the 1917-1918 Sobor?
                                  I hope we remember our lesson with Valentin, too, about not jumping at every single MP hierarch who says some of our buzzwords.  I mean, can you imagine if one of our bishops started publishing things like that about ROCOR to all the faithful, rather than working them out at bishops' sobors?
                                    Well, we can just look carefully, to see the fruits.....
                                 
                                --Dimitra Dwelley
                                ----- Original Message ----
                                From: akomendantov <akomendantov@...>
                                To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Friday, March 2, 2007 12:14:49 PM
                                Subject: [orthodox-rocor] Re: News from Russia

                                --- In orthodox-rocor@ yahoogroups. com, Dimitra Dwelley
                                <ochichernie2@ ...> wrote:

                                I didn't see the part about his saying we must address and fix

                                > these problems in our church (the MP) -- not to go into schisms
                                becuase we don't like what we see. That makes me feel somewhat
                                better about it. I still can't find that part--can you point me to
                                it? Is it in the first page (description) or in the letter itself,
                                and, what paragraph?

                                Sorry Dimitra. I was reading the original "epistle" and a phone
                                interview with the bishop at the same time. The news article (in its
                                selective p.o.v.) chose not to mention this important point. It's
                                right up front in the interview below:

                                http://www.christia n-spirit. ru/Pages/ int_vl_Diomid. htm

                                Para. 2:

                                "I, Diomid, ruling Bishop of the Anadyr-Chukotka Diocese, am not a
                                schismatic. I do not separate myself from the Mother Church and
                                consider myself a son of my Church. And, in fact, these problems
                                must be resolved."

                                Andrew Komendantov




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                              • Athanasios Jayne
                                Dear fellow Group members, What I want to know is: Did His Holiness Patriarch Alexy II Himself sign the document known as: Basic Principles of the Attitude of
                                Message 15 of 23 , Mar 4, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Dear fellow Group members,

                                  What I want to know is: Did His Holiness Patriarch Alexy II
                                  Himself sign the document known as: "Basic Principles of the
                                  Attitude of the Russian Orthodox Church Toward the Other
                                  Christian Confessions," which was adopted by the Jubilee
                                  Bishops' Council of the Russian Orthodox Church - August 14,
                                  2000?

                                  (see full text at link below)

                                  http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/articles/ecumenical/roc_other_christian_confessions.htm

                                  I ask because not all Bishops always sign synodally-approved
                                  documents. That is, they are not always unanimous.

                                  I would *very* much like confirmation that Patriarch Alexy
                                  personally signed this document. For me, the answer to this
                                  question is of paramount importance.

                                  My sincere thanks for any assistance.

                                  Athanasios Jayne
                                  (ROCOR)
                                • Al Green
                                  ***Interesting thoughts. But consider that maybe the Holy Spirit is democratically oriented. That is, like the Ecumenical Councils, the majority rules. Al ...
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Mar 5, 2007
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                                    ***Interesting thoughts. But consider that maybe the Holy Spirit is
                                    democratically oriented. That is, like the Ecumenical Councils, the
                                    majority rules.

                                    Al


                                    --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "Athanasios Jayne"
                                    <athanasiosj@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Dear fellow Group members,
                                    >
                                    > What I want to know is: Did His Holiness Patriarch Alexy II
                                    > Himself sign the document known as: "Basic Principles of the
                                    > Attitude of the Russian Orthodox Church Toward the Other
                                    > Christian Confessions," which was adopted by the Jubilee
                                    > Bishops' Council of the Russian Orthodox Church - August 14,
                                    > 2000?
                                    >
                                    > (see full text at link below)
                                    >
                                    >
                                    http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/articles/ecumenical/roc_other
                                    _christian_confessions.htm
                                    >
                                    > I ask because not all Bishops always sign synodally-approved
                                    > documents. That is, they are not always unanimous.
                                    >
                                    > I would *very* much like confirmation that Patriarch Alexy
                                    > personally signed this document. For me, the answer to this
                                    > question is of paramount importance.
                                    >
                                    > My sincere thanks for any assistance.
                                    >
                                    > Athanasios Jayne
                                    > (ROCOR)
                                    >
                                  • Infowolf1@aol.com
                                    In a message dated 3/5/2007 12:24:39 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, aggreen1@yahoo.com writes: ***Interesting thoughts. But consider that maybe the Holy Spirit is
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Mar 5, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      In a message dated 3/5/2007 12:24:39 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, aggreen1@... writes:
                                      ***Interesting thoughts. But consider that maybe the Holy Spirit is
                                      democratically oriented. That is, like the Ecumenical Councils, the
                                      majority rules.

                                      Al
                                               I believe there were some councils that were later overturned.
                                               I think Athanasios wants to know that the top man at the MP
                                               now does not agree with something that maybe he can be
                                               counted on therefore not to implement overmuch, and be part
                                               of getting overturned later?
                                       
                                               Mary Christine Erikson




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                                    • Al Green
                                      ... is ... the ... MP ... part ... ***Do we need to start one of those silly internet petitions demanding that the Patriarch of Moscow do yet another mia
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Mar 6, 2007
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                                        --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, Infowolf1@... wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > In a message dated 3/5/2007 12:24:39 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                        > aggreen1@... writes:
                                        >
                                        > ***Interesting thoughts. But consider that maybe the Holy Spirit
                                        is
                                        > democratically oriented. That is, like the Ecumenical Councils,
                                        the
                                        > majority rules.
                                        >
                                        > Al
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > I believe there were some councils that were later overturned.
                                        > I think Athanasios wants to know that the top man at the
                                        MP
                                        > now does not agree with something that maybe he can be
                                        > counted on therefore not to implement overmuch, and be
                                        part
                                        > of getting overturned later?
                                        >
                                        > Mary Christine Erikson


                                        ***Do we need to start one of those silly internet petitions
                                        demanding that the Patriarch of Moscow do yet another mia culpa? Good
                                        grief. When does the vicious cycle of repeated apologies ever end?
                                        Maybe it's time for all of us to follow the biblical example of
                                        forgiving the patriarchy 70 X 7 times.

                                        Al
                                      • Athanasios Jayne
                                        ... demanding that the Patriarch of Moscow do yet another mia culpa? Good grief. When does the vicious cycle of repeated apologies ever end? Maybe it s time
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Mar 6, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "Al Green" <aggreen1@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > **Do we need to start one of those silly internet petitions
                                          demanding that the Patriarch of Moscow do yet another mia culpa? Good
                                          grief. When does the vicious cycle of repeated apologies ever end?
                                          Maybe it's time for all of us to follow the biblical example of
                                          forgiving the patriarchy 70 X 7 times.<<

                                          Dear Al,

                                          I am merely asking if His Holiness signed a document that is
                                          regarded as being of major significance in our (ROCOR's)
                                          rapprochement with the MP. I know the Holy Synod of Russia
                                          signed or "approved" it, and it is therefore highly *probable*
                                          that Patriarch Alexy did also, but I would like to have
                                          some confirmation of this, because (as I have said before)
                                          Ecumenist (that is, heretical) statements have been attributed
                                          to Him in the past. I am not asking for a "petition," or
                                          anything else. I am asking for confirmation of what did--or
                                          did not--occur.

                                          Athanasios Jayne
                                          (ROCOR)
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