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Carpatho-Russian Holy Week

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  • Al Green
    Folks, Not long ago there was some discussion of the Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Chruch and how their practices are a little different from that of the Russian
    Message 1 of 17 , Apr 16, 2006
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      Folks,

      Not long ago there was some discussion of the
      Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Chruch and how their
      practices are a little different from that of the
      Russian Church. This will be my first year
      experiencing Holy Week in the C-P parish near me, and
      I thought I would share with you how Holy Week is
      commemorated. I'm doing this strictly FYI, and as a
      reminder of the rich and varied traditions of Holy
      Orthodoxy. Blessings to you all for Holy Week.

      Al
      _____________________

      St. Michael the Archangel Eastern Orthodox Greek
      Catholic Church,
      Clinton Street, Binghamton, NY
      http://www.saintmichaels.info

      Holy Monday

      * Presanctified Liturgy, 6 PM

      Holy Wednesday

      * Sacrament of Holy Anointing, 6 PM
      Please note that this Anointing Service is a Sacrament
      of the Church. Orthodox Christians who have prepared
      themselves by receiving the Sacrament of Holy
      Confession in Lent may come to be annointed.

      Holy Thursday

      * Vesperal Liturgy of St. Basil the Great, 6 PM
      The day marks the institution of the Sacrament of Holy
      Communion. Orthodox Christians who have prepared
      themselves by receiving the Sacrament of Holy
      Confession In Lent may come to Communion at this
      Lenten Liturgy. Fasting from food and drink for those
      coming to Communion should begin at 3 PM

      Holy and Great Friday

      * The Matin Service of the 12 Gospels of the Passion,
      of Our Lord, will begin at 8 AM

      * Vespers of Great and Holy Friday, 7 PM
      Vespers concludes with the Processions of the
      Plascanitza (the Icon of the Body of Christ) around
      the church and its placement in the Tomb.

      Great and Holy Saturday

      * Vesperal Liturgy of St. Basil, 8 AM

      * Visitation at the Tomb, 9 AM-8 PM

      * Blessing of Easter foods in the Center, 4 PM

      * Matins of the Resurrection will begin at 8 PM
      The Procession of the Resurrection, which will take
      place outdoors (weather permiting) shortly after the
      start of the service.

      * Blessing of Easter foods follows in the Recreation
      Center

      Sunday of the Resurrection

      * Paschal Divine Liturgy, 9 AM
      Responses: St. Michael's Choir & Congregation

      * Blessing of Easter foods at the conclusion of the
      Liturgy.

      Holy Week Fasting Regutations

      All of this week are days of abstinence from meat.
      Good Friday and Holy Saturday are also days of
      absti-nence from dairy products. The Fast ends after
      Liturgy. Those who are ill are not bound by the fast.

      __________________________________________________
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    • Vladimir Malave
      Message 2 of 17 , Apr 16, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        <Not long ago there was some discussion of the
        <Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Church and how their
        <practices are a little different from that of the
        <Russian Church. This will be my first year
        <experiencing Holy Week in the C-P parish near me, and
        <I thought I would share with you how Holy Week is
        <commemorated. I'm doing this strictly FYI, and as a
        <reminder of the rich and varied traditions of Holy
        <Orthodoxy. Blessings to you all for Holy Week.

        <Al

        Dear Al Green;
         
        I am curious to know what jurisdiction you are a member of and what is your position in the Church.  You seem to know quite a lot about different issues and at times even at variance with others while maintaining yet a very strong conviction.
        As far as the Easter services in the Carpatho Russian Church, I wanted to share with you that this is where I began my journey into Holy Orthodoxy and many contacts to the world of Orthodoxy.  This is also where I learned and studied for over 3 years about Holy Orthodox Tradition, Church History and especially Iconography of which it had a profound impact in my life, like for instance, when while just beginning to understand Iconography, a small conviction concerning the worshiping of idols existed in my heart not allowing me to fully appreciate its benefits.  One day coming back to my apartment I found the house to be on fire.  My room that I was renting was on the 2nd floor and the fire started from the 3rd floor working its way to the first floor.  The 3rd floor burned completely.  The second floor as well with part of the 1st floor.  The parish priest at the Carpatho-Russian Church, Fr. James Gleason was called as soon as I became aware of the fire.  Although he prayed on his way to my apartment and I as well was praying, not for myself for it was just one room, but for the landlord who was a friend of the family.  I prayed that God may spare him his home, since it was all he had.  Even so, all was lost -- so I thought.  When after the fire was put out and Fr. James was cleared by the Marshall to inspect the remains, he, in great amazement approached me privately and asked me if I had lit a candle in my room.  Afraid that maybe I caused the fire, (it was electrical by the way) I was reluctant to answer at first, but then he said that I needed to check the room myself.  To make a long story short, or shorter, my room was the only room on the second floor untouched by the fire and even the water from the hoses.  A candle continued to burn before the Icon of Our Savior.  This was all I needed to convince my skeptical heart that Iconography is indeed Holy.  Sure, I read tons of teachings and history on icons, but this was a personal revelation to my human heart that cannot be argued, nor explained, or should I say, attempt to be explained by modern science.  In closing, I am sure that you will enjoy in spirit your visit to the Carpatho Russian Church.  It is a bit different than a ROCOR service, but definitely farther away from an OCA church.  The only visible and apparent difference without looking for one, would be the pews.  I don't know about other Carpatho-Russian Churches, I only know about the one that introduced me to "LIFE" and keeping this in mind, there may be internal variances between CR parishes.  I hope and pray that your experience there would be wholesome and spiritually uplifting.  If you find it to be otherwise, please email me privately. 
         
        In Christ+


        Vladimir Malave
        Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia Orthodox Church (ROCOR)
        NORWICH, CT


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      • aggreen1
        Vladimir, I came into Orthodoxy through the Soviet-era Moscow Patriarchate. I was Chrismated in a small ROC-MP parish church in Hackettstown, NJ. I later
        Message 3 of 17 , Apr 23, 2006
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          Vladimir,

          I came into Orthodoxy through the Soviet-era Moscow Patriarchate. I
          was Chrismated in a small ROC-MP parish church in Hackettstown, NJ.
          I later changed to the OCA (for convenience since there was no ROC
          church nearby). For the past six months or so I have been communing
          in a Carpatho-Russian Orthodox parish.

          I'm committed to Holy Orthodoxy and in promoting an understanding
          about the local practices of the various jurisdictions (at least
          those with which I come in contact with. I've communed in GOARCH and
          Ukrainian parishes in my area, too, and I'd like to learn a little
          more about each.

          My experience this Holy Week and Pascha has been positive overall. I
          did find that at the burial service Friday evening that the plain
          chant did not convey the same sad mood that the more traditional
          Byzantine chant produces. And I'm having a hard time with seeing
          women brought behind the iconostas to "line up" for the procession.

          And, as for pews...this may well be a New World phenomena. A few
          weeks ago I went through the list of Russian Patriarchal parishes in
          the U.S. and those parishes with web site and pictures of the church
          interior...well...all had pews. Go figure.

          It is very apparent that the Carpatho-Russians have baggage from
          their Unia days (or should that be "daze"? <G>), such as kneeling
          upon entering church for prayers instead of standing, and the Royal
          and Deacon's doors being open throughout the Divine Liturgy. The
          Ecumenical Patriarch accepted the Carpatho-Russians in 1938 with the
          provision that they could keep their unique customs and traditions.
          To me, it was a small price to pay to bring these folks back to the
          True Church. Just the same, a friend, a former Roman Catholic, is a
          Carpatho-Russian priest at a small mission in Georgia. He would not
          allow any woman behind the icon screen (at least in public since his
          churchkeeper is a woman).

          All in all, I wish I could have remained with the Moscow
          Patriarchate. For any number of reasons, I feel my life would have
          been very much different.

          Al




          --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, Vladimir Malave
          <vladimir833@...> wrote:
          >
          > <Not long ago there was some discussion of the
          > <Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Church and how their
          > <practices are a little different from that of the
          > <Russian Church. This will be my first year
          > <experiencing Holy Week in the C-P parish near me, and
          > <I thought I would share with you how Holy Week is
          > <commemorated. I'm doing this strictly FYI, and as a
          > <reminder of the rich and varied traditions of Holy
          > <Orthodoxy. Blessings to you all for Holy Week.
          >
          > <Al
          >
          > Dear Al Green;
          >
          > I am curious to know what jurisdiction you are a member of and
          what is your position in the Church. You seem to know quite a lot
          about different issues and at times even at variance with others
          while maintaining yet a very strong conviction.
          > As far as the Easter services in the Carpatho Russian Church, I
          wanted to share with you that this is where I began my journey into
          Holy Orthodoxy and many contacts to the world of Orthodoxy. This is
          also where I learned and studied for over 3 years about Holy
          Orthodox Tradition, Church History and especially Iconography of
          which it had a profound impact in my life, like for instance, when
          while just beginning to understand Iconography, a small conviction
          concerning the worshiping of idols existed in my heart not allowing
          me to fully appreciate its benefits. One day coming back to my
          apartment I found the house to be on fire. My room that I was
          renting was on the 2nd floor and the fire started from the 3rd floor
          working its way to the first floor. The 3rd floor burned
          completely. The second floor as well with part of the 1st floor.
          The parish priest at the Carpatho-Russian Church, Fr. James Gleason
          was called as soon as I became aware of the fire. Although he
          > prayed on his way to my apartment and I as well was praying, not
          for myself for it was just one room, but for the landlord who was a
          friend of the family. I prayed that God may spare him his home,
          since it was all he had. Even so, all was lost -- so I thought.
          When after the fire was put out and Fr. James was cleared by the
          Marshall to inspect the remains, he, in great amazement approached
          me privately and asked me if I had lit a candle in my room. Afraid
          that maybe I caused the fire, (it was electrical by the way) I was
          reluctant to answer at first, but then he said that I needed to
          check the room myself. To make a long story short, or shorter, my
          room was the only room on the second floor untouched by the fire and
          even the water from the hoses. A candle continued to burn before
          the Icon of Our Savior. This was all I needed to convince my
          skeptical heart that Iconography is indeed Holy. Sure, I read tons
          of teachings and history on icons, but this was a personal
          > revelation to my human heart that cannot be argued, nor
          explained, or should I say, attempt to be explained by modern
          science. In closing, I am sure that you will enjoy in spirit your
          visit to the Carpatho Russian Church. It is a bit different than a
          ROCOR service, but definitely farther away from an OCA church. The
          only visible and apparent difference without looking for one, would
          be the pews. I don't know about other Carpatho-Russian Churches, I
          only know about the one that introduced me to "LIFE" and keeping
          this in mind, there may be internal variances between CR parishes.
          I hope and pray that your experience there would be wholesome and
          spiritually uplifting. If you find it to be otherwise, please email
          me privately.
          >
          > In Christ+
          >
          >
          > Vladimir Malave
          > Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia Orthodox Church (ROCOR)
          > NORWICH, CT
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone
          call rates.
          >
        • Bosko Jovanovic
          Al, Did you read book Ratlines by Mark Aarons and John Loftus.VIII Chapter is about uniate church In Christ Bosko Jovanovic aggreen1
          Message 4 of 17 , Apr 24, 2006
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            Al,
            Did you read book"Ratlines"by Mark Aarons and John Loftus.VIII Chapter is about uniate church
            In Christ
            Bosko Jovanovic

            aggreen1 <aggreen1@...> wrote:
            Vladimir,

            I came into Orthodoxy through the Soviet-era Moscow Patriarchate. I
            was Chrismated in a small ROC-MP parish church in Hackettstown, NJ.
            I later changed to the OCA (for convenience since there was no ROC
            church nearby). For the past six months or so I have been communing
            in a Carpatho-Russian Orthodox parish.

            I'm committed to Holy Orthodoxy and in promoting an understanding
            about the local practices of the various jurisdictions (at least
            those with which I come in contact with. I've communed in GOARCH and
            Ukrainian parishes in my area, too, and I'd like to learn a little
            more about each.

            My experience this Holy Week and Pascha has been positive overall. I
            did find that at the burial service Friday evening that the plain
            chant did not convey the same sad mood that the more traditional
            Byzantine chant produces. And I'm having a hard time with seeing
            women brought behind the iconostas to "line up" for the procession.

            And, as for pews...this may well be a New World phenomena. A few
            weeks ago I went through the list of Russian Patriarchal parishes in
            the U.S. and those parishes with web site and pictures of the church
            interior...well...all had pews. Go figure.

            It is very apparent that the Carpatho-Russians have baggage from
            their Unia days (or should that be "daze"? <G>), such as kneeling
            upon entering church for prayers instead of standing, and the Royal
            and Deacon's doors being open throughout the Divine Liturgy. The
            Ecumenical Patriarch accepted the Carpatho-Russians in 1938 with the
            provision that they could keep their unique customs and traditions.
            To me, it was a small price to pay to bring these folks back to the
            True Church. Just the same, a friend, a former Roman Catholic, is a
            Carpatho-Russian priest at a small mission in Georgia. He would not
            allow any woman behind the icon screen (at least in public since his
            churchkeeper is a woman).

            All in all, I wish I could have remained with the Moscow
            Patriarchate. For any number of reasons, I feel my life would have
            been very much different.

            Al




            --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, Vladimir Malave
            <vladimir833@...> wrote:
            >
            > <Not long ago there was some discussion of the
            > <Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Church and how their
            > <practices are a little different from that of the
            > <Russian Church. This will be my first year
            > <experiencing Holy Week in the C-P parish near me, and
            > <I thought I would share with you how Holy Week is
            > <commemorated. I'm doing this strictly FYI, and as a
            > <reminder of the rich and varied traditions of Holy
            > <Orthodoxy. Blessings to you all for Holy Week.
            >
            > <Al
            >
            >   Dear Al Green;
            >   
            >   I am curious to know what jurisdiction you are a member of and
            what is your position in the Church. You seem to know quite a lot
            about different issues and at times even at variance with others
            while maintaining yet a very strong conviction.
            >   As far as the Easter services in the Carpatho Russian Church, I
            wanted to share with you that this is where I began my journey into
            Holy Orthodoxy and many contacts to the world of Orthodoxy.  This is
            also where I learned and studied for over 3 years about Holy
            Orthodox Tradition, Church History and especially Iconography of
            which it had a profound impact in my life, like for instance, when
            while just beginning to understand Iconography, a small conviction
            concerning the worshiping of idols existed in my heart not allowing
            me to fully appreciate its benefits.  One day coming back to my
            apartment I found the house to be on fire.  My room that I was
            renting was on the 2nd floor and the fire started from the 3rd floor
            working its way to the first floor.  The 3rd floor burned
            completely.  The second floor as well with part of the 1st floor. 
            The parish priest at the Carpatho-Russian Church, Fr. James Gleason
            was called as soon as I became aware of the fire.  Although he
            >  prayed on his way to my apartment and I as well was praying, not
            for myself for it was just one room, but for the landlord who was a
            friend of the family.  I prayed that God may spare him his home,
            since it was all he had.  Even so, all was lost -- so I thought. 
            When after the fire was put out and Fr. James was cleared by the
            Marshall to inspect the remains, he, in great amazement approached
            me privately and asked me if I had lit a candle in my room.  Afraid
            that maybe I caused the fire, (it was electrical by the way) I was
            reluctant to answer at first, but then he said that I needed to
            check the room myself.  To make a long story short, or shorter, my
            room was the only room on the second floor untouched by the fire and
            even the water from the hoses.  A candle continued to burn before
            the Icon of Our Savior.  This was all I needed to convince my
            skeptical heart that Iconography is indeed Holy.  Sure, I read tons
            of teachings and history on icons, but this was a personal
            >  revelation to my human heart that cannot be argued, nor
            explained, or should I say, attempt to be explained by modern
            science.  In closing, I am sure that you will enjoy in spirit your
            visit to the Carpatho Russian Church.  It is a bit different than a
            ROCOR service, but definitely farther away from an OCA church.  The
            only visible and apparent difference without looking for one, would
            be the pews.  I don't know about other Carpatho-Russian Churches, I
            only know about the one that introduced me to "LIFE" and keeping
            this in mind, there may be internal variances between CR parishes. 
            I hope and pray that your experience there would be wholesome and
            spiritually uplifting.  If you find it to be otherwise, please email
            me privately. 
            >   
            >   In Christ+
            >
            >
            > Vladimir Malave
            >   Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia Orthodox Church (ROCOR)
            > NORWICH, CT
            >
            >            
            > ---------------------------------
            > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low  PC-to-Phone
            call rates.
            >









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          • G3
            Would you go to a ROCOR church if they come into communion with the MP? I seem to recall a fair amount of MP and ROCOR churches in that area (NJ) George Green
            Message 5 of 17 , Apr 24, 2006
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              Would you go to a ROCOR church if they come into communion with the MP?

              I seem to recall a fair amount of MP and ROCOR churches in that area (NJ)

              George Green

              On Apr 23, 2006, at 3:47 PM, aggreen1 wrote:

              Vladimir,

              I came into Orthodoxy through the Soviet-era Moscow Patriarchate. I
              was Chrismated in a small ROC-MP parish church in Hackettstown, NJ.
              I later changed to the OCA (for convenience since there was no ROC
              church nearby). For the past six months or so I have been communing
              in a Carpatho-Russian Orthodox parish.

              I'm committed to Holy Orthodoxy and in promoting an understanding
              about the local practices of the various jurisdictions (at least
              those with which I come in contact with. I've communed in GOARCH and
              Ukrainian parishes in my area, too, and I'd like to learn a little
              more about each.

              My experience this Holy Week and Pascha has been positive overall. I
              did find that at the burial service Friday evening that the plain
              chant did not convey the same sad mood that the more traditional
              Byzantine chant produces. And I'm having a hard time with seeing
              women brought behind the iconostas to "line up" for the procession.

              And, as for pews...this may well be a New World phenomena. A few
              weeks ago I went through the list of Russian Patriarchal parishes in
              the U.S. and those parishes with web site and pictures of the church
              interior...well...all had pews. Go figure.

              It is very apparent that the Carpatho-Russians have baggage from
              their Unia days (or should that be "daze"? <G>), such as kneeling
              upon entering church for prayers instead of standing, and the Royal
              and Deacon's doors being open throughout the Divine Liturgy. The
              Ecumenical Patriarch accepted the Carpatho-Russians in 1938 with the
              provision that they could keep their unique customs and traditions.
              To me, it was a small price to pay to bring these folks back to the
              True Church. Just the same, a friend, a former Roman Catholic, is a
              Carpatho-Russian priest at a small mission in Georgia. He would not
              allow any woman behind the icon screen (at least in public since his
              churchkeeper is a woman).

              All in all, I wish I could have remained with the Moscow
              Patriarchate. For any number of reasons, I feel my life would have
              been very much different.

              Al




              --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, Vladimir Malave
              <vladimir833@...> wrote:
              >
              > <Not long ago there was some discussion of the
              > <Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Church and how their
              > <practices are a little different from that of the
              > <Russian Church. This will be my first year
              > <experiencing Holy Week in the C-P parish near me, and
              > <I thought I would share with you how Holy Week is
              > <commemorated. I'm doing this strictly FYI, and as a
              > <reminder of the rich and varied traditions of Holy
              > <Orthodoxy. Blessings to you all for Holy Week.
              >
              > <Al
              >
              >   Dear Al Green;
              >   
              >   I am curious to know what jurisdiction you are a member of and
              what is your position in the Church. You seem to know quite a lot
              about different issues and at times even at variance with others
              while maintaining yet a very strong conviction.
              >   As far as the Easter services in the Carpatho Russian Church, I
              wanted to share with you that this is where I began my journey into
              Holy Orthodoxy and many contacts to the world of Orthodoxy.  This is
              also where I learned and studied for over 3 years about Holy
              Orthodox Tradition, Church History and especially Iconography of
              which it had a profound impact in my life, like for instance, when
              while just beginning to understand Iconography, a small conviction
              concerning the worshiping of idols existed in my heart not allowing
              me to fully appreciate its benefits.  One day coming back to my
              apartment I found the house to be on fire.  My room that I was
              renting was on the 2nd floor and the fire started from the 3rd floor
              working its way to the first floor.  The 3rd floor burned
              completely.  The second floor as well with part of the 1st floor. 
              The parish priest at the Carpatho-Russian Church, Fr. James Gleason
              was called as soon as I became aware of the fire.  Although he
              >  prayed on his way to my apartment and I as well was praying, not
              for myself for it was just one room, but for the landlord who was a
              friend of the family.  I prayed that God may spare him his home,
              since it was all he had.  Even so, all was lost -- so I thought. 
              When after the fire was put out and Fr. James was cleared by the
              Marshall to inspect the remains, he, in great amazement approached
              me privately and asked me if I had lit a candle in my room.  Afraid
              that maybe I caused the fire, (it was electrical by the way) I was
              reluctant to answer at first, but then he said that I needed to
              check the room myself.  To make a long story short, or shorter, my
              room was the only room on the second floor untouched by the fire and
              even the water from the hoses.  A candle continued to burn before
              the Icon of Our Savior.  This was all I needed to convince my
              skeptical heart that Iconography is indeed Holy.  Sure, I read tons
              of teachings and history on icons, but this was a personal
              >  revelation to my human heart that cannot be argued, nor
              explained, or should I say, attempt to be explained by modern
              science.  In closing, I am sure that you will enjoy in spirit your
              visit to the Carpatho Russian Church.  It is a bit different than a
              ROCOR service, but definitely farther away from an OCA church.  The
              only visible and apparent difference without looking for one, would
              be the pews.  I don't know about other Carpatho-Russian Churches, I
              only know about the one that introduced me to "LIFE" and keeping
              this in mind, there may be internal variances between CR parishes. 
              I hope and pray that your experience there would be wholesome and
              spiritually uplifting.  If you find it to be otherwise, please email
              me privately. 
              >   
              >   In Christ+
              >
              >
              > Vladimir Malave
              >   Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia Orthodox Church (ROCOR)
              > NORWICH, CT
              >
              >            
              > ---------------------------------
              > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low  PC-to-Phone
              call rates.
              >









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            • aggreen1
              ... the MP? ... area ... ***Possibly, but I m not residing in NJ. However, the one ROCOR parish near me (St. Nicholas in Endicott, NY) is said to be going its
              Message 6 of 17 , Apr 24, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, G3 <kharaku@...> wrote:
                >
                > Would you go to a ROCOR church if they come into communion with
                the MP?
                >
                > I seem to recall a fair amount of MP and ROCOR churches in that
                area
                > (NJ)
                >
                > George Green


                ***Possibly, but I'm not residing in NJ. However, the one ROCOR
                parish near me (St. Nicholas in Endicott, NY) is said to be going
                its own way if ROCOR and the ROC-MP reunify. (And it's a longer
                drive than either the Carpatho-Russian or OCA churches that I have
                attended.)

                ***Where I am living in northeastern Pennsylvania is without an
                Orthodox Church although there are quite a few Orthodox living in
                the county. the Antiochians have told me they would be willing to
                explore a mssion...

                Al Green (no relation, although George Green is my paternal
                grandfather's name) <G>
              • hoodpeters
                ... This is not entirely correct. St. Andrew s in Philly has no pews. St. George s in Bayside removed their pews in the last few years. Monastery of Our Lady
                Message 7 of 17 , Apr 24, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "aggreen1" <aggreen1@...> wrote:

                  > And, as for pews...this may well be a New World phenomena. A few
                  > weeks ago I went through the list of Russian Patriarchal parishes in
                  > the U.S. and those parishes with web site and pictures of the church
                  > interior...well...all had pews. Go figure.

                  This is not entirely correct.
                  St. Andrew's in Philly has no pews.
                  St. George's in Bayside removed their pews in the last few years.
                  Monastery of Our Lady of Mercy in NYC, never had (and never will
                  have)pews.
                  All under Bishop Mercurius of Zaraisk, Patriarchate of Moscow.
                  XB!
                  Deacon John
                • Vladimir Malave
                  It s unfortunate you are right. I have been noticing a few small changes within some churches I have visited this past weekend which confuses me even more.
                  Message 8 of 17 , Apr 24, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    It's unfortunate you are right.  I have been noticing a few small changes within some churches I have visited this past weekend which confuses me even more.  Not liking what I have seen and the union has not even been decided yet.  I hope if they decide to unite, that this will not increase the scenes (i will not discuss publicly) I have witnessed during Pascha.

                    Vladimir Malave
                    Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia Orthodox Church (ROCOR)
                    NORWICH, CT


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                  • G3
                    The Cathedral of St Nicholous in Manhattan near central park is MP and has no pews. George
                    Message 9 of 17 , Apr 25, 2006
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                      The Cathedral of St Nicholous in Manhattan near central park is MP and has no pews.

                      George

                      On Apr 24, 2006, at 11:00 PM, hoodpeters wrote:

                      --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "aggreen1" <aggreen1@...> wrote:

                      > And, as for pews...this may well be a New World phenomena. A few
                      > weeks ago I went through the list of Russian Patriarchal parishes in
                      > the U.S. and those parishes with web site and pictures of the church
                      > interior...well...all had pews. Go figure.

                      This is not entirely correct.
                      St. Andrew's in Philly has no pews.
                      St. George's in Bayside removed their pews in the last few years.
                      Monastery of Our Lady of Mercy in NYC, never had (and never will
                      have)pews.
                      All under Bishop Mercurius of Zaraisk, Patriarchate of Moscow.
                      XB!
                      Deacon John







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                    • Vladimir Malave
                      The 2 ROCOR parishes I attend do not have pew either. Although, they do have a couple of folding chairs and a bench or two for the elderly. Vladimir Malave
                      Message 10 of 17 , Apr 25, 2006
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                        The 2 ROCOR parishes I attend do not have pew either.  Although, they do have a couple of folding chairs and a bench or two for the elderly.

                        Vladimir Malave
                        Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia Orthodox Church (ROCOR)
                        NORWICH, CT


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                      • aggreen1
                        ***I had an interesting thought: ROCOR officially teaches about Toll- Houses, the ROC-MP does not (at least in my experience and in reading an online ROC-MP
                        Message 11 of 17 , Apr 25, 2006
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                          ***I had an interesting thought: ROCOR officially teaches about Toll-
                          Houses, the ROC-MP does not (at least in my experience and in
                          reading an online ROC-MP catechism). How is this dichotomy going to
                          be rectified? Can you have opposing teachings in the same
                          jurisdiction?

                          Al


                          --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, Vladimir Malave
                          <vladimir833@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > It's unfortunate you are right. I have been noticing a few small
                          changes within some churches I have visited this past weekend which
                          confuses me even more. Not liking what I have seen and the union
                          has not even been decided yet. I hope if they decide to unite, that
                          this will not increase the scenes (i will not discuss publicly) I
                          have witnessed during Pascha.
                          >
                          > Vladimir Malave
                          > Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia Orthodox Church (ROCOR)
                          > NORWICH, CT
                          > http://www.holynewmartyrs.com/
                          >
                          >
                          > ---------------------------------
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                        • emrys@globe.net.nz
                          I think the question is, can any one Church hold as dogma a teaching which is not taught by the universal Church? Fr Ambrose ... From: aggreen1
                          Message 12 of 17 , Apr 25, 2006
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                            I think the question is, can any one Church hold as dogma a teaching which
                            is not taught by the universal Church?

                            Fr Ambrose
                            --------------------------
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "aggreen1" <aggreen1@...>
                            To: <orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 8:49 AM
                            Subject: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Carpatho-Russian Holy Week


                            > ***I had an interesting thought: ROCOR officially teaches about Toll-
                            > Houses, the ROC-MP does not (at least in my experience and in
                            > reading an online ROC-MP catechism). How is this dichotomy going to
                            > be rectified? Can you have opposing teachings in the same
                            > jurisdiction?
                            >
                          • DDD
                            XB! Dear Father, Bless, Can you please not start up this toll-house thing, and certainly not during Bright Week? �I have a booklet and our church sells
                            Message 13 of 17 , Apr 25, 2006
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                              XB!

                               

                              Dear Father, Bless,

                               

                              Can you please not start up this toll-house thing, and certainly not during Bright Week?  I have a booklet and our church sells booklets from the Church in Russia describing the various "trials" after death, especially useful for thinking about when preparing for confession.  It is powerful to bring one to thoughts of repentance and changing one's life, too.

                              So, please do not make statements that the Church in Russia doesn't believe in them.  Please just don't start in on this.

                               

                              Sorry, please forgive me.

                               

                              Asking our prayers,

                              Dimitra

                               

                               

                               

                              emrys@... wrote:
                              I think the question is, can any one Church hold as dogma a teaching which
                              is not taught by the universal Church?

                              Fr Ambrose
                              --------------------------
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "aggreen1" <aggreen1@...>
                              To: <orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 8:49 AM
                              Subject: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Carpatho-Russian Holy Week


                              > ***I had an interesting thought: ROCOR officially teaches about Toll-
                              > Houses, the ROC-MP does not (at least in my experience and in
                              > reading an online ROC-MP catechism). How is this dichotomy going to
                              > be rectified? Can you have opposing teachings in the same
                              > jurisdiction?
                              >






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                            • Ambrois O Maonaigh
                              ... not during Bright Week? I have a booklet and our church sells booklets from the Church in Russia describing the various trials after death, especially
                              Message 14 of 17 , Apr 30, 2006
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                                >> Can you please not start up this toll-house thing, and certainly
                                not during Bright Week? I have a booklet and our church sells
                                booklets from the Church in Russia describing the various "trials"
                                after death, especially useful for thinking about when preparing for
                                confession. It is powerful to bring one to thoughts of repentance and
                                changing one's life, too.

                                >> So, please do not make statements that the Church in Russia doesn't
                                believe in them. Please just don't start in on this.<<

                                Dear Dimitra,

                                I was replying to Al who mistakenly thought that the toll houses are
                                the official teaching of the Church Abroad.

                                This is not true because it is not possible for any Orthodox Church to
                                hold as "official" teaching that which is not the common faith of all
                                the Churches.

                                Hope this helps Al and yourself,

                                Fr Ambrose
                              • nmmihalik@earthlink.net
                                Al, Please, terminate this misinformation which you have perpetuated in other postings. I am a member of the Endicott St. Nicholas parish. There may be a
                                Message 15 of 17 , May 3, 2006
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                                  Al,
                                   
                                  Please, terminate this misinformation which you have perpetuated in other postings.  I am a member of the Endicott St. Nicholas parish.  There may be a split in the parish, but the holdings will remain with ROCOR. 
                                  That is all.
                                   
                                  Nicholas Mihalik 
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: aggreen1
                                  Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 9:58 PM
                                  Subject: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Carpatho-Russian Holy Week

                                  --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, G3 <kharaku@...> wrote:
                                  Possibly, but I'm not residing in NJ. However, the one ROCOR
                                  parish near me (St. Nicholas in Endicott, NY) is said to be going
                                  its own way if ROCOR and the ROC-MP reunify. (And it's a longer
                                  drive than either the Carpatho-Russian or OCA churches that I have
                                  attended.)

                                   
                                • aggreen1
                                  ***Thank you. This information is not what seems to be circulating in our neck of the woods. The clarification is helpful. Since I have mentioned this before
                                  Message 16 of 17 , May 4, 2006
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                                    ***Thank you. This information is not what seems to be circulating
                                    in our neck of the woods. The clarification is helpful. Since I have
                                    mentioned this before on other lists, I wish you had corrected me
                                    sooner.

                                    ***We should meet for coffee one day...maybe at the Lost Dog Cafe?

                                    Al



                                    --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, <nmmihalik@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Al,
                                    >
                                    > Please, terminate this misinformation which you have perpetuated
                                    in other postings. I am a member of the Endicott St. Nicholas
                                    parish. There may be a split in the parish, but the holdings will
                                    remain with ROCOR.
                                    > That is all.
                                    >
                                    > Nicholas Mihalik
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: aggreen1
                                    > To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 9:58 PM
                                    > Subject: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Carpatho-Russian Holy Week
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, G3 <kharaku@> wrote:
                                    > Possibly, but I'm not residing in NJ. However, the one ROCOR
                                    > parish near me (St. Nicholas in Endicott, NY) is said to be
                                    going
                                    > its own way if ROCOR and the ROC-MP reunify. (And it's a longer
                                    > drive than either the Carpatho-Russian or OCA churches that I
                                    have
                                    > attended.)
                                    >
                                  • George
                                    I m glad to hear this! Are there any whole parishes who are on record for saying they intend to go into schism if a union between ROCOR and the MP is acheived?
                                    Message 17 of 17 , May 4, 2006
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                                      I'm glad to hear this!

                                      Are there any whole parishes who are on record for saying they intend to go into schism if
                                      a union between ROCOR and the MP is acheived?

                                      George Green.

                                      --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, <nmmihalik@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Al,
                                      >
                                      > Please, terminate this misinformation which you have perpetuated in other postings. I
                                      am a member of the Endicott St. Nicholas parish. There may be a split in the parish, but
                                      the holdings will remain with ROCOR.
                                      > That is all.
                                      >
                                      > Nicholas Mihalik
                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > From: aggreen1
                                      > To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 9:58 PM
                                      > Subject: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Carpatho-Russian Holy Week
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, G3 <kharaku@> wrote:
                                      > Possibly, but I'm not residing in NJ. However, the one ROCOR
                                      > parish near me (St. Nicholas in Endicott, NY) is said to be going
                                      > its own way if ROCOR and the ROC-MP reunify. (And it's a longer
                                      > drive than either the Carpatho-Russian or OCA churches that I have
                                      > attended.)
                                      >
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