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RE: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Calendar

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  • oross
    The Church calendar is not a dogmatic or theological issue and Orthodox Church can adapt new or modify existing calendar. This has been clearly and cogently
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 31, 2005
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      The Church calendar is not a dogmatic or theological issue and Orthodox Church can adapt new or modify existing calendar. This has been clearly and cogently explained by Holy Patriarch, St. Tikhon in his letter regarding the Calendar.

       

      In 1922, when Patriarch Tikhon returned to his duties after one year of incarceration, he was told that all Orthodox Churches change over to the new calendar. He responded that is all Orthodox Churches had accepted the new calendar the Russian Orthodox Church would follow them and change to the new calendar.

      However, after couple of weeks, Patriarch Tikhon had found out that this change to the new calendar had not been done properly, by the fullness of Orthodoxy, and that not all Orthodox Churches had switched to the new calendar, he declared that the Russian Orthodox Church would continue to follow the Julian (Old)Calendar sanctified by the Ecumenical Councils and the millennial history of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church until that time when it would be properly changed by the Fullness of Orthodoxy.

       

      Providentially, even the atheistic Bolshevik government that took power in Russia and brutally persecuted the Orthodox Church was not able to force ROC to switch to the new calendar.

       

      I wonder what prevent Patriarchs of those local Orthodox Churches (Greek, Anthiochian, Romanian, etc.) to do what Holy Patriarch Tikhon has rightfully done in such impossible circumstances?

       

      It is absolutely clear that although the calendar issue is not dogmatic the improper introduction of the new calendar has created confusion and division in Orthodox Church. It could be very easily overcome it if instead of paying the lip service to St. Tikhon our spiritual leaders (Patriarchs and Bishops) follow his example in their deeds. Why not OCA Metropolitan and/or Bishop (s) take a lead in this important and really very easy matter of healing this calendar inconsistency that has been willfully created during the turmoil at the beginning of XX century?

       

      After returning to the Julian calendar, which has been used by all Orthodox Churches, as Holy Patriarch Tikhon has done, let the Ecumenical Council be convened to decide just this single issue by the fullness of Orthodoxy - to establish the one liturgical calendar to be followed by all Orthodox Churches.

       

      Why this simple and obvious and easy thing is not happening? What or whom they are afraid of? And why Orthodox people are luke warm on this matter and not writing letters to their Patriarchs and Bishops like the Russian Orthodox faithful did in 1922?

       

      Aleksiy

       

      P.S. The Russian Orthodox Church is not going to carry out a calendar reform, the official representative of the Moscow Patriarchate has declared.

       

      The Moscow Patriarchate does not consider a matter of changing the church calendar.

      "At present time the issue of changing the calendar style does not stand before the Russian Orthodox Church", - archpriest Nikolay Balashov, secretary on interorthodox relations of the Department of the External Church Communications of the Moscow Patriarchate  has declared in an interview to RIA "News".

      "The Julian calendar is dear to our church people and is also one of the cultural features of our life" - he has explained.

      At the same time, Balashov said, that presently only the Russian, Georgian, Jerusalem , Serbian Orthodox Churches and Mt. Athos monasteries are living according the old (Julian) calendar. All other 11 Orthodox Churches celebrate the Christ Nativity on December 25 as Catholics do, using the Gregorian calendar.

       

      www.religare.ru

       

       

       


      From: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com [mailto:orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Carney
      Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 9:34 PM
      To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Calendar

       

      Dear ones in Christ,

      Regarding the calendar dispute, which Al Green calls "one of modern
      Orthodoxy's
      most divisive issues", he writes:


      "it would be nice if the entire church -- world Orthodox and traditionalist
      alike -- were on the
      same page."

      It is refreshing to be reminded that our little mission is, indeed, one of
      only
      two outposts of world Orthodoxy in our city.  True, we compete with
      several
      , larger parishes of what Al calls "traditionalists".    It's hard
      not
      to be swayed by some of their aberrant leanings.  But we try.  And we
      love
      them just the same.


      Our mission parish of the Russian Church Abroad, along with other parishes
      of
      the Orthodox Church of Russia (both ours and in the MP), the churches of

      the Serbian, Jerusalem and Georgian Patriarchates - remains on the Old
      Calendar:  And so, since the majority of Orthodox Christians in the world
      are on the Old Calendar, that would make us the "world Orthodox", right?

      = :-O

      Still, while we yearn for the return of the "traditionalists" (such as the
      Antiochians
      , etc.) back to liturgical unity with the rest of the Church, we

      recognize that the calendar is a secondary issue.

      Nevertheless, if many people continue to think of the New Calendar as a very
      divisive issue, it might be helpful for those who follow it to consider a
      question:  Is it still in their best interest to share Christmas with the
      openly Arian and sodomite bishops of the Episcopal Church, rather than with
      the Orthodox Patriarchs of Moscow and Serbia?


      priest Michael Carney
      St. Herman Orthodox Church
      Grand Rapids, MI



      ----- Original Message -----
      From
      : "aggreen1" <aggreen1@...>

      To: <orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 7:55 PM
      Subject: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Clergy serving in new and old calendar
      parishes



      > ***I'm of the opinion that the calendar issue, which is no issue to
      > me, is one of modern Orthodoxy's most divisive issues. I don't think
      > it matters one iota to God Almighty when we honor His birth, or
      > commemorate His resurrection, but it would be nice if the entire
      > church -- world Orthodox and traditionalist alike -- were on the
      > same page.
      >
      > Al


       

    • aggreen1
      ... as a very ... consider a ... with the ... than with ... ***This is a most interesting statement. However, you left out the RCC with its plethora of
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 1, 2005
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        --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Carney"
        <omishenka@w...> wrote:

        >
        > Nevertheless, if many people continue to think of the New Calendar
        as a very
        > divisive issue, it might be helpful for those who follow it to
        consider a
        > question: Is it still in their best interest to share Christmas
        with the
        > openly Arian and sodomite bishops of the Episcopal Church, rather
        than with
        > the Orthodox Patriarchs of Moscow and Serbia?


        ***This is a most interesting statement. However, you left out the
        RCC with its plethora of sodomite priests!! ;-)


        Al
      • aggreen1
        ... Calendar ... follow ... this ... ***A few years ago I worked with the son of a rather well-known ROCOR priest in New Jersey. He always went out for a
        Message 3 of 5 , Nov 1, 2005
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          --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "aprmih" <aprmih@y...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Carney"
          > <omishenka@w...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Nevertheless, if many people continue to think of the New
          Calendar
          > > as a very divisive issue, it might be helpful for those who
          follow
          > > it to consider a question: Is it still in their best interest to
          > > share Christmas with the openly Arian and sodomite bishops of the
          > > Episcopal Church, rather than with the Orthodox Patriarchs of
          > > Moscow and Serbia?
          > >
          > >
          > > priest Michael Carney
          > > St. Herman Orthodox Church
          > > Grand Rapids, MI
          > >
          >
          >
          > And it really *does* come down to Christmas, doesn't it? You never
          > hear anyone complaining that "it's a shame we don't celebrate the
          > Transfiguration of the Lord (or the Birth of the Theotokos, or the
          > Theophany, or the Ascension) with the other christians!" All of
          this
          > division and ill will for the sake of celebrating the birth of our
          > Lord at the same time as the world is engaged in an orgy or
          > commercialism and, lets face it, debauchery.
          >
          > Alex


          ***A few years ago I worked with the son of a rather well-known
          ROCOR priest in New Jersey. He always went out for a Christmas Tree
          on Dec. 25...when they were free!

          Al
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