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Re: "Schism Saints"

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  • Athanasios Jayne
    ... before the Revolution, the Russian Orthodox Church decided to soften its position and allow Old Believers to come back--with their Rite intact--only they
    Message 1 of 38 , Sep 28, 2005
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      --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, DDD <dimitradd@c...> wrote:
      > The grace of the Holy Spirit is not to be underestimated!
      > A similar situation existed with the Old Believers. Even
      before the Revolution, the Russian Orthodox Church decided to soften
      its position and allow Old Believers to come back--with their Rite
      intact--only they would recognize and belong to the Orthodox
      Church.<<

      Dear Dimitra,

      Sorry to hear about your computer virus troubles. Hope all
      is well now.

      To your post...

      I myself don't see the Old Believers as being very analogous
      to the "Oriental Orthodox." The Old Believers had the same
      dogmatic foundation as the Church, and those who had
      Priests, or the services of Priests, were in some sense
      maintaining Communion with the Church. Neither of which can
      be said of the "Oriental Orthodox." Also, the Old Believers
      existed apart for a comparatively short time--nothing like
      1,500 years. And they had no Bishops (so far as I know),
      and so they had no-one who could authoritatively glorify
      anyone among them as a new "Saint." In all these respects,
      the "Oriental Orthodox" differ significantly from the Old
      Believers, and these differences make reconciliation all
      the more difficult.

      In one respect, though, our Bishops did make a significant
      condescension, or act of Economy, in receiving the Old
      Believers: our Bishops allowed them to retain an addition
      to the Symbol of Faith, as can be seen in the "Old Orthodox
      Prayer Book." I assume this addition is recited in their
      Liturgies as well.

      Athanasios.
    • larry most
      GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST GLORY TO HIM FOREVER DEar Athanasios, Does it make any changes in belief. To me it is like saying the living and the dead vs the quick
      Message 38 of 38 , Oct 13, 2005
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        GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST GLORY TO HIM FOREVER
        DEar Athanasios,
        Does it make any changes in belief. To me it is like
        saying "the living and the dead" vs "the quick and the
        dead".
        Love in Christ,
        Sub-deacon Lawrence Most

        --- Athanasios Jayne <athanasiosj@...> wrote:

        > --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, larry most
        > <larrymost2002@y...> wrote:
        > >
        > > GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST GLORY TO HIM FOREVER
        > > Dear Athanasios,
        > > From the "Old Rite Prayerbook" .."And in the Holy
        > > Spirit, the Lord true and lifegiving, Who
        > proceedeth
        > > from the Father....". I don't see any addition
        > there,
        > > unless it differs in the newer prayer book.
        > > Love in Christ,
        > > Sub-deacon Lawrence Most
        >
        > Dear Fr. Lawrence,
        >
        > The addition is the word "true," which is not
        > present in
        > the original text of the Niceno-Constantinopolitan
        > Symbol
        > of Faith, as set forth by the Second Ecumenical
        > Council
        > of A.D. 381. If you compare the "Old Orthodox
        > Prayer
        > Book" (of the former "Old Believers" who joined
        > ROCOR),
        > to the Jordanville Book or any other Orthodox text,
        > you
        > will see that they do not have the word "true" in
        > them.
        >
        > Athanasios.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >




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