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RE: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Hopko retiring

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  • David Starr
    Dear Margaret, Yes. In Christ, David
    Message 1 of 25 , Jun 19 3:48 PM
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      Dear Margaret,
      Yes.
      In Christ,
      David

      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Margaret Lark [mailto:skovranok@...]
      > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 4:23 PM
      > To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Hopko retiring
      >
      >
      > Anthony Bridges wrote:
      >
      > >As for the matter of Hopko retiring, let us be
      > >grateful for small things, and let us pray that
      > >whoever takes his place will lead the OCA in a more
      > >traditional and less ecumenical direction, however
      > >unlikely that may be.
      >
      > I must say, I hadn't realized that Fr. Hopko was quite so
      > controversial. At the same time, I myself had the impression, he
      > was VERY ecumenical, but I thought it was just me. Would you say
      > that that was also the case with the late Rev. Alexander
      > Schmemann, who was Fr. Hopko's father-in-law? (Just asking...I
      > belong, of necessity, to a Greek church, and I belong to this
      > list to keep my head straight!) :-}
      >
      > >(For the record, let me reiterate that I am not now
      > >saying, nor have I ever said, that the Bishops of the
      > >Synod of the Russian Church Outside of Russia are
      > >heretical; neither am I advocating "walling off" from
      > >them at this time nor at any foreseeable date in the
      > >future.)
      >
      > Thank you for saying this. I get enough of this stuff from the Greeks.
      >
      > In Christ,
      > Margaret Lark
      >
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    • ninamezencev@yahoo.com
      ... was a ... who ... in ... individual ... case, our ... of the ... Dear Father John: Please note that I did not say that I did not know what a suspension
      Message 2 of 25 , Jun 19 10:21 PM
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        --- In orthodox-rocor@y..., "Rev. John R. Shaw" <vrevjrs@e...> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > And at first, concelebration did not completely cease. This
        was a
        > later development, resulting from the MEtropolia accepting clergy
        who
        > *had* been suspended by the Church Abroad.
        >
        > The Church ABroad does not deny that the Mysteries celebrated
        in
        > the OCA have grace. (There may be *individuals*, including
        individual
        > clergy, who do deny it, however).
        >
        > However, there is now a group of clergy that has fallen under
        > suspension by ROCOR. I believe you know who they are. In their
        case, our
        > Church has in fact officially declared that any sacred services or
        > Mysteries they may perform while under suspension, or in contempt
        of the
        > lawful hierarchy, are, in fact, without grace.
        >
        Dear Father John:

        Please note that I did not say that I did not know what a suspension
        means. I said that I did not know exactly what a suspension entails.
        Big difference. This was a conversation about the OCA, not the ROCA.
        It is sad that you seize this opportunity to exploit and take glee in
        our suspended ROCA clergy.

        Perhaps ROCA did not suspend the clergy of the OCA because there
        would be no reason to suspend clergy that have fallen away from the
        truth. The fact that they are no longer in the True Church speaks for
        itself. How is it possible that the OCA has grace if our clergy
        cannot concelebrate with them. This makes no sense. So they are kind
        of right but not completely? They are either in communion with us, or
        they are not. It's no wonder God is allowing us to be cleansed.

        To claim there is no grace with our suspended clergy yet to claim
        there is grace with the OCA who accepted *suspended* clergy is a
        contradiction of the most hypocritical sort! Not to mention that the
        OCA along with the MP are members of the WCC, and those clergy of
        ROCA who oppose ecumenism are being persecuted. But as Father
        Seraphim Rose said, "If you have controversy, where is the final
        word? And we say that the Holy Spirit will reveal Himself. This
        happens especially when bishops come together in council, but even
        then there can be a FALSE COUNCIL."

        I guess it boils down to whether or not one believes that there is
        more than one true church. We are obviously not of like mind.
        Archbishop Averky said, "God created one Church for us, not many
        different faiths and "churches".... If there is only one true faith
        and only one true church, then as a consequence all other faiths
        and "churches" are false, not true. How then can anyone say that all
        faiths and "churches" are of equal value and that it is all the same
        which church you go to." I myself must stand among those that remain
        faithful to the holy traditions and principles of our Church fathers.
        Suspended or not they are preserving the true faith of our Russian
        Orthodox Church Abroad. As Bishop Ignatius said, "May the merciful
        Lord defend the REMNANT of those who believe in Him. But this remnant
        is tiny, and it becomes more and more so."

        Nina
      • ninamezencev@yahoo.com
        ... allowed by ... church ... attending ... Dear Herman: This does not make it right. How one accepts this even logically is beyond me. I know that my father
        Message 3 of 25 , Jun 19 10:27 PM
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          > > >
          > > > That is simply not true. Concelebration by clergy is not
          allowed by
          > > > ROCOR, but ROCOR parishioners can take communion in any SCOBA
          church
          > > > (and many do) and many ROCOR churches commune SCOBA church
          attending
          > > > visitors.
          > > >
          > > > Herman, subdeacon


          Dear Herman:

          This does not make it right. How one accepts this even logically is
          beyond me. I know that my father confessor would not allow this.
          Perhaps it is time to ask questions.

          Nina
        • ninamezencev@yahoo.com
          ... more ... Nina
          Message 4 of 25 , Jun 19 10:30 PM
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            --- In orthodox-rocor@y..., "Rd. Constantine Wright"
            <constantinew@h...> wrote:
            > Glory to Jesus Christ! Glory Forever!
            >
            > >From: Marc Blaydoe <blaydoe_marc@b...>
            > >Subject: Re: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Hopko retiring
            > >

            >
            > And yes, I too pray that the next dean of SVS will be of a much
            more
            > traditional mindset!
            >
            > In IX,
            > Rd. Constantine
            >
            >Yes, we all do!

            Nina


            > _________________________________________________________________
            >
          • Marc Blaydoe
            ... Just because you do not like it does not make it wrong. ... Thanks be to God it is not beyond many bishops. ... Indeed. Herman
            Message 5 of 25 , Jun 20 4:26 AM
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              ninamezencev@... wrote:

              > > > >
              > > > > That is simply not true. Concelebration by clergy is not
              > allowed by
              > > > > ROCOR, but ROCOR parishioners can take communion in any SCOBA
              > church
              > > > > (and many do) and many ROCOR churches commune SCOBA church
              > attending
              > > > > visitors.
              > > > >
              > > > > Herman, subdeacon
              >
              > Dear Herman:
              >
              > This does not make it right.

              Just because you do not like it does not make it wrong.

              > How one accepts this even logically is
              > beyond me.

              Thanks be to God it is not beyond many bishops.

              > I know that my father confessor would not allow this.
              > Perhaps it is time to ask questions.

              Indeed.

              Herman
            • Father Maximos
              I see my little announcement caused a tremendous stir, which was not my intention at all. For good or for ill ( mostly ill) St.Vladimir s Seminary is a very
              Message 6 of 25 , Jun 20 2:36 PM
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                I see my little announcement caused a tremendous stir, which was not
                my intention at all.
                For good or for ill ( mostly ill) St.Vladimir's Seminary is a very
                influential institution on the American Orthodox scene, and the
                retirement of its Dean is an event that does impact people within the
                Orthodox Church.

                I think Father Deacon Anthony Bridges comments about the matter sum
                up my feelings exactly.


                In Christ

                the sinful monk

                Maximos+

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Anthony Bridges
                ... Deacon Anthony replies: That was my point. He was very ecumenical, so now that he is going let us pray that his replacement will be more traditional and
                Message 7 of 25 , Jun 21 3:23 PM
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                  --- Margaret Lark <skovranok@...> wrote:

                  > I must say, I hadn't realized that Fr. Hopko was
                  > quite so controversial. At the same time, I myself
                  > had the impression, he was VERY ecumenical, but I
                  > thought it was just me.

                  Deacon Anthony replies:

                  That was my point. He was very ecumenical, so now that
                  he is going let us pray that his replacement will be
                  more traditional and less ecumenical.


                  Would you say that that was
                  > also the case with the late Rev. Alexander
                  > Schmemann, who was Fr. Hopko's father-in-law? (Just
                  > asking...I belong, of necessity, to a Greek church,
                  > and I belong to this list to keep my head straight!)
                  > :-}

                  I have heard the same about Schmemann, but can't
                  verify. As for keeping your head straight, whatever
                  works...Although I personally have to go away from the
                  computer to get my head straight ;-7====


                  >
                  > >(For the record, let me reiterate that I am not now
                  > >saying, nor have I ever said, that the Bishops of
                  > the
                  > >Synod of the Russian Church Outside of Russia are
                  > >heretical; neither am I advocating "walling off"
                  > from
                  > >them at this time nor at any foreseeable date in
                  > the
                  > >future.)
                  >
                  > Thank you for saying this. I get enough of this
                  > stuff from the Greeks.
                  >

                  Which Greeks? There are so many...





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                • Anthony Bridges
                  ... And how often does one hear THAT? (I mean, REALLY???) I almost fell out of my chair! It is enough to make me believe in God... Glory be to His name!!!
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jun 21 3:32 PM
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                    --- Father Maximos <frmaximos@...> wrote:

                    > I see my little announcement caused a tremendous
                    > stir, which was not my intention at all.
                    > For good or for ill ( mostly ill) St.Vladimir's
                    > Seminary is a very influential institution on the
                    > American Orthodox scene, and the retirement of its
                    > Dean is an event that does impact people within the
                    > Orthodox Church.
                    >
                    > I think Father Deacon Anthony Bridges comments about
                    > the matter sum up my feelings exactly.
                    >

                    And how often does one hear THAT? (I mean, REALLY???)
                    I almost fell out of my chair! It is enough to make me
                    believe in God...

                    Glory be to His name!!!

                    Father Deacon Anthony Bridges
                    Joy of All Who Sorrow (ROCOR)
                    Cumming, GA




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                  • Father Maximos
                    ... Thank God for small things Father :) In Christ the least of monks Maximos+ Rev.Hieromonk Maximos Ascension Monastery Russian Orthodox Church Outside of
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jun 21 3:48 PM
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                      >--- Father Maximos <frmaximos@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >> I see my little announcement caused a tremendous
                      >> stir, which was not my intention at all.
                      >> For good or for ill ( mostly ill) St.Vladimir's
                      >> Seminary is a very influential institution on the
                      >> American Orthodox scene, and the retirement of its
                      >> Dean is an event that does impact people within the
                      >> Orthodox Church.
                      >>
                      >> I think Father Deacon Anthony Bridges comments about
                      >> the matter sum up my feelings exactly.
                      >>
                      >
                      >And how often does one hear THAT? (I mean, REALLY???)
                      >I almost fell out of my chair! It is enough to make me
                      >believe in God...
                      >
                      >Glory be to His name!!!
                      >
                      >Father Deacon Anthony Bridges
                      >Joy of All Who Sorrow (ROCOR)
                      >Cumming, GA
                      >


                      Thank God for small things Father :)

                      In Christ

                      the least of monks

                      Maximos+



                      Rev.Hieromonk Maximos
                      Ascension Monastery
                      Russian Orthodox Church
                      Outside of Russia (ROCOR)
                      706-277-9442 ( voice)
                      775-640-2325 ( fax)
                      http://www.monastery.org
                      http://shop.monasteryproducts.org


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • volotsky@aol.com
                      In a message dated 6/20/1 4:17:18 AM, ninamezencev@yahoo.com writes: Did I miss
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jun 21 10:56 PM
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                        In a message dated 6/20/1 4:17:18 AM, ninamezencev@... writes:

                        << and those clergy of
                        ROCA who oppose ecumenism are being persecuted. >>

                        Did I miss something? Who is being persecuted for opposing ecumenism? Who
                        is doing the persecuting? And I thought all ROCA clergy where
                        anti-ecumenist. Who are the persecuted and the persecuting?

                        From the subject bar one might speculate that there is some incident wherein
                        Fr. Hopko was deemed as persecuting anti-ecumenist ROCA clergy. But that
                        can't be right.
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