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Re: [orthodox-rocor] Bush and theTheotokos

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  • Nicholas Steblez
    Dear Brothers and Sisters Christ is in our midst! One can t be certain, but I suppose that the icon might have been a gift from some Orthodox church, bishop,
    Message 1 of 27 , Nov 5, 2004
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      Dear Brothers and Sisters

      Christ is in our midst!

      One can't be certain, but I suppose that the icon might have been a gift from some Orthodox church, bishop, official, or the like, or perhaps it was a gift from Putin when he was visiting. Somehow, I doubt that he decided on getting it himself. ;-)

      The unworthy servant of God
      Nicholas Steblez

      larry most <larrymost2002@...> wrote:
      GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST - GLORY TO HIM FOREVER
      Dear Alexandr,
      I noticed that right away, too.
      Love in Christ,
      Sub-deacon Lawrence
      --- slavipodvizhnik <swingsitter@...> wrote:

      >
      >
      > Dear Brothers and sisters in Christ,
      >
      > Did anyone else notice the icon of the Vladimirskaya
      > Mother of God
      > prominantly displayed in President Bush's private
      > residence? I
      > noticed it election night as they showed the
      > President relaxing at
      > home with his family. He may be an evangelical
      > Christian, but if
      > he, even unknowingly, reveres the Mother of God, is
      > it any wonder
      > that he won? Food for thought.
      >
      > Sinful Alexandr Cvejkus
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >




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    • Beau Branson
      Let s hope that when the next airplane full of terrorists crashes into the White House, Bush s ikon of the Theotokos will still be standing. --Symeon On
      Message 2 of 27 , Nov 5, 2004
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        Let's hope that when the next airplane full of terrorists crashes into
        the White House, Bush's ikon of the Theotokos will still be standing.

        --Symeon

        On Friday, November 5, 2004, at 01:19 PM, Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
        wrote:

        >
        >
        > Some American friends were given an Icon of Christ as a gift. They
        > were Protestant but had a reverence for the "portrait of Jesus" and
        > hung it on a wall with respect and dignity but out of the way. When
        > the big Loma Linda Earthquake hit California their house was extremely
        > damaged and all their furniture was trashed, windows broken and doors
        > cracked and off the hedges, and all the wall hangings fell to the
        > floor and were broken, save one piece, the Holy Icon of Christ which
        > remained on the Wall and it was the first item they noticed as they
        > examined their loses. The Icon was hung most prominently in their
        > rebuilt home!
        >
        > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, Beau Branson <BBRANSON@N...>
        > wrote:
        >>
        >> It seems like it wouldn't be too much of a trick for the Anti-Christ
        >> himself to put up a few ikons. And I'm not sure that's too far from
        >> the case here.
        >>
        >> --Symeon
        >>
        >>
        >> On Friday, November 5, 2004, at 11:59 AM, larry most wrote:
        >>
        >>>
        >>> GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST - GLORY TO HIM FOREVER
        >>> Dear Alexandr,
        >>> I noticed that right away, too.
        >>> Love in Christ,
        >>> Sub-deacon Lawrence
        >>> --- slavipodvizhnik <swingsitter@y...> wrote:
        >>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>> Dear Brothers and sisters in Christ,
        >>>>
        >>>> Did anyone else notice the icon of the Vladimirskaya
        >>>> Mother of God
        >>>> prominantly displayed in President Bush's private
        >>>> residence? I
        >>>> noticed it election night as they showed the
        >>>> President relaxing at
        >>>> home with his family. He may be an evangelical
        >>>> Christian, but if
        >>>> he, even unknowingly, reveres the Mother of God, is
        >>>> it any wonder
        >>>> that he won? Food for thought.
        >>>>
        >>>> Sinful Alexandr Cvejkus
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> __________________________________
        >>> Do you Yahoo!?
        >>> Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
        >>> www.yahoo.com
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>> Posts to this list need to be signed with your full (and real) name.
        >>>
        >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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        >
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        >
      • Eugene Grushetsky
        ... My goodness, what a range of visions on the bare fact of icon of Theotokos and W. May be It simply means that God is with Bush ?. Alleluia, now at least we
        Message 3 of 27 , Nov 5, 2004
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          --- Beau Branson <BBRANSON@...> wrote:

          >
          > Let's hope that when the next airplane full of
          > terrorists crashes into
          > the White House, Bush's ikon of the Theotokos will
          > still be standing.
          >
          > --S.
          My goodness, what a range of visions on the bare fact
          of icon of Theotokos and W. May be It simply means
          that God is with Bush ?. Alleluia, now at least we
          know why he won elections.
          Fr. E. Grushetsky.
          >
          > On Friday, November 5, 2004, at 01:19 PM,
          > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
          > wrote:
          >
          > >
          > >
          > > Some American friends were given an Icon of Christ
          > as a gift. They
          > > were Protestant but had a reverence for the
          > "portrait of Jesus" and
          > > hung it on a wall with respect and dignity but out
          > of the way. When
          > > the big Loma Linda Earthquake hit California their
          > house was extremely
          > > damaged and all their furniture was trashed,
          > windows broken and doors
          > > cracked and off the hedges, and all the wall
          > hangings fell to the
          > > floor and were broken, save one piece, the Holy
          > Icon of Christ which
          > > remained on the Wall and it was the first item
          > they noticed as they
          > > examined their loses. The Icon was hung most
          > prominently in their
          > > rebuilt home!
          > >
          > > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, Beau
          > Branson <BBRANSON@N...>
          > > wrote:
          > >>
          > >> It seems like it wouldn't be too much of a trick
          > for the Anti-Christ
          > >> himself to put up a few ikons. And I'm not sure
          > that's too far from
          > >> the case here.
          > >>
          > >> --Symeon
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> On Friday, November 5, 2004, at 11:59 AM, larry
          > most wrote:
          > >>
          > >>>
          > >>> GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST - GLORY TO HIM FOREVER
          > >>> Dear Alexandr,
          > >>> I noticed that right away, too.
          > >>> Love in Christ,
          > >>> Sub-deacon Lawrence
          > >>> --- slavipodvizhnik <swingsitter@y...> wrote:
          > >>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>> Dear Brothers and sisters in Christ,
          > >>>>
          > >>>> Did anyone else notice the icon of the
          > Vladimirskaya
          > >>>> Mother of God
          > >>>> prominantly displayed in President Bush's
          > private
          > >>>> residence? I
          > >>>> noticed it election night as they showed the
          > >>>> President relaxing at
          > >>>> home with his family. He may be an evangelical
          > >>>> Christian, but if
          > >>>> he, even unknowingly, reveres the Mother of
          > God, is
          > >>>> it any wonder
          > >>>> that he won? Food for thought.
          > >>>>
          > >>>> Sinful Alexandr Cvejkus
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>> __________________________________
          > >>> Do you Yahoo!?
          > >>> Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
          > >>> www.yahoo.com
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>> Posts to this list need to be signed with your
          > full (and real) name.
          > >>>
          > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Posts to this list need to be signed with your
          > full (and real) name.
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >




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        • Lewis H Whitaker
          The fact that Bush won the election does not mean that God was (or was not) with him. As the reports are starting to come in about potential voter fraud one
          Message 4 of 27 , Nov 5, 2004
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            The fact that Bush won the election does not mean that God was (or was not)
            with him. As the reports are starting to come in about potential voter fraud
            one starts to wonder.

            Lewis H Whitaker

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Eugene Grushetsky [mailto:grush002@...]
            Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 6:09 PM
            To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Bush and theTheotokos



            --- Beau Branson <BBRANSON@...> wrote:

            >
            > Let's hope that when the next airplane full of
            > terrorists crashes into
            > the White House, Bush's ikon of the Theotokos will
            > still be standing.
            >
            > --S.
            My goodness, what a range of visions on the bare fact
            of icon of Theotokos and W. May be It simply means
            that God is with Bush ?. Alleluia, now at least we
            know why he won elections.
            Fr. E. Grushetsky.
            >
            > On Friday, November 5, 2004, at 01:19 PM,
            > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
            > wrote:
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > Some American friends were given an Icon of Christ
            > as a gift. They
            > > were Protestant but had a reverence for the
            > "portrait of Jesus" and
            > > hung it on a wall with respect and dignity but out
            > of the way. When
            > > the big Loma Linda Earthquake hit California their
            > house was extremely
            > > damaged and all their furniture was trashed,
            > windows broken and doors
            > > cracked and off the hedges, and all the wall
            > hangings fell to the
            > > floor and were broken, save one piece, the Holy
            > Icon of Christ which
            > > remained on the Wall and it was the first item
            > they noticed as they
            > > examined their loses. The Icon was hung most
            > prominently in their
            > > rebuilt home!
            > >
            > > Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, Beau
            > Branson <BBRANSON@N...>
            > > wrote:
            > >>
            > >> It seems like it wouldn't be too much of a trick
            > for the Anti-Christ
            > >> himself to put up a few ikons. And I'm not sure
            > that's too far from
            > >> the case here.
            > >>
            > >> --Symeon
            > >>
            > >>
            > >> On Friday, November 5, 2004, at 11:59 AM, larry
            > most wrote:
            > >>
            > >>>
            > >>> GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST - GLORY TO HIM FOREVER
            > >>> Dear Alexandr,
            > >>> I noticed that right away, too.
            > >>> Love in Christ,
            > >>> Sub-deacon Lawrence
            > >>> --- slavipodvizhnik <swingsitter@y...> wrote:
            > >>>
            > >>>>
            > >>>>
            > >>>> Dear Brothers and sisters in Christ,
            > >>>>
            > >>>> Did anyone else notice the icon of the
            > Vladimirskaya
            > >>>> Mother of God
            > >>>> prominantly displayed in President Bush's
            > private
            > >>>> residence? I
            > >>>> noticed it election night as they showed the
            > >>>> President relaxing at
            > >>>> home with his family. He may be an evangelical
            > >>>> Christian, but if
            > >>>> he, even unknowingly, reveres the Mother of
            > God, is
            > >>>> it any wonder
            > >>>> that he won? Food for thought.
            > >>>>
            > >>>> Sinful Alexandr Cvejkus
            > >>>>
            > >>>>
            > >>>>
            > >>>>
            > >>>>
            > >>>>
            > >>>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>> __________________________________
            > >>> Do you Yahoo!?
            > >>> Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
            > >>> www.yahoo.com
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>> Posts to this list need to be signed with your
            > full (and real) name.
            > >>>
            > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Posts to this list need to be signed with your
            > full (and real) name.
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >




            __________________________________
            Do you Yahoo!?
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            www.yahoo.com




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          • Fr. John Whiteford
            I think this discussion has gone a bit far afield from the focus of this list. But since comments have been made against my beloved president and fellow Texan,
            Message 5 of 27 , Nov 5, 2004
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              I think this discussion has gone a bit far afield from
              the focus of this list.

              But since comments have been made against my beloved
              president and fellow Texan, take this:

              http://www.peteandrews.net/whos_in_the_white_house.htm

              :)

              --- Beau Branson <BBRANSON@...> wrote:

              > Let's hope that when the next airplane full of
              > terrorists crashes into
              > the White House, Bush's ikon of the Theotokos will
              > still be standing.


              =====
              *****************************************************************
              Fr. John Whiteford
              St. Jonah Orthodox Church
              Parish Home Page: http://www.saintjonah.org/
              Parish Discussion Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjonah/
              ROCOR Discussion Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-rocor/
            • aggreen1
              ... into ... ***What an absolutely lousy, sinful thought...especially from an Orthodox Christian. For shame! Al
              Message 6 of 27 , Nov 5, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, Beau Branson <BBRANSON@N...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Let's hope that when the next airplane full of terrorists crashes
                into
                > the White House


                ***What an absolutely lousy, sinful thought...especially from an
                Orthodox Christian. For shame!

                Al
              • Nicholas Trahan
                What reports? what voter fraud? Get a life!
                Message 7 of 27 , Nov 5, 2004
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                  What reports? what voter fraud? Get a life!

                  > From: "Lewis H Whitaker" <aspern@...>
                  > Reply-To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 18:11:27 -0500
                  > To: <orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Subject: RE: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Bush and theTheotokos
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > The fact that Bush won the election does not mean that God was (or was not)
                  > with him. As the reports are starting to come in about potential voter fraud
                  > one starts to wonder.
                  >
                  > Lewis H Whitaker
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Eugene Grushetsky [mailto:grush002@...]
                  > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 6:09 PM
                  > To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Bush and theTheotokos
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- Beau Branson <BBRANSON@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >>
                  >> Let's hope that when the next airplane full of
                  >> terrorists crashes into
                  >> the White House, Bush's ikon of the Theotokos will
                  >> still be standing.
                  >>
                  >> --S.
                  > My goodness, what a range of visions on the bare fact
                  > of icon of Theotokos and W. May be It simply means
                  > that God is with Bush ?. Alleluia, now at least we
                  > know why he won elections.
                  > Fr. E. Grushetsky.
                  >>
                  >> On Friday, November 5, 2004, at 01:19 PM,
                  >> Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                  >> wrote:
                  >>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>> Some American friends were given an Icon of Christ
                  >> as a gift. They
                  >>> were Protestant but had a reverence for the
                  >> "portrait of Jesus" and
                  >>> hung it on a wall with respect and dignity but out
                  >> of the way. When
                  >>> the big Loma Linda Earthquake hit California their
                  >> house was extremely
                  >>> damaged and all their furniture was trashed,
                  >> windows broken and doors
                  >>> cracked and off the hedges, and all the wall
                  >> hangings fell to the
                  >>> floor and were broken, save one piece, the Holy
                  >> Icon of Christ which
                  >>> remained on the Wall and it was the first item
                  >> they noticed as they
                  >>> examined their loses. The Icon was hung most
                  >> prominently in their
                  >>> rebuilt home!
                  >>>
                  >>> Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>> --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, Beau
                  >> Branson <BBRANSON@N...>
                  >>> wrote:
                  >>>>
                  >>>> It seems like it wouldn't be too much of a trick
                  >> for the Anti-Christ
                  >>>> himself to put up a few ikons. And I'm not sure
                  >> that's too far from
                  >>>> the case here.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> --Symeon
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>>> On Friday, November 5, 2004, at 11:59 AM, larry
                  >> most wrote:
                  >>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>> GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST - GLORY TO HIM FOREVER
                  >>>>> Dear Alexandr,
                  >>>>> I noticed that right away, too.
                  >>>>> Love in Christ,
                  >>>>> Sub-deacon Lawrence
                  >>>>> --- slavipodvizhnik <swingsitter@y...> wrote:
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> Dear Brothers and sisters in Christ,
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> Did anyone else notice the icon of the
                  >> Vladimirskaya
                  >>>>>> Mother of God
                  >>>>>> prominantly displayed in President Bush's
                  >> private
                  >>>>>> residence? I
                  >>>>>> noticed it election night as they showed the
                  >>>>>> President relaxing at
                  >>>>>> home with his family. He may be an evangelical
                  >>>>>> Christian, but if
                  >>>>>> he, even unknowingly, reveres the Mother of
                  >> God, is
                  >>>>>> it any wonder
                  >>>>>> that he won? Food for thought.
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> Sinful Alexandr Cvejkus
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>> __________________________________
                  >>>>> Do you Yahoo!?
                  >>>>> Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
                  >>>>> www.yahoo.com
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>> Posts to this list need to be signed with your
                  >> full (and real) name.
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>> Posts to this list need to be signed with your
                  >> full (and real) name.
                  >>>
                  >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > __________________________________
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                  > ADVERTISEMENT
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                • aggreen1
                  ... ***I suspect, Father, that President Bush, a Methodist, doesn t have the same reverance for the Holy Mother that Orthodox Christians have. Bush was raised
                  Message 8 of 27 , Nov 5, 2004
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, Eugene Grushetsky
                    <grush002@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- Beau Branson <BBRANSON@N...> wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    > > Let's hope that when the next airplane full of
                    > > terrorists crashes into
                    > > the White House, Bush's ikon of the Theotokos will
                    > > still be standing.
                    > >
                    > > --S.
                    > My goodness, what a range of visions on the bare fact
                    > of icon of Theotokos and W. May be It simply means
                    > that God is with Bush ?. Alleluia, now at least we
                    > know why he won elections.
                    > Fr. E. Grushetsky.

                    ***I suspect, Father, that President Bush, a Methodist, doesn't have
                    the same reverance for the Holy Mother that Orthodox Christians have.
                    Bush was raised an Episcopalian, dabbled for a time in the
                    Presbyterian Church before moving on to the United Methodist Church.
                    He's a "born again" type protestant which, interestingly, involves a
                    theological concept that the Methodists have never embraced (just
                    tolerated). Nowhere in his upbringing and in his adult church
                    affiliations, is there any particular reverance taught for the Mother
                    of God.

                    ***I will endeavor to find out about the icon and why he has it ans
                    is displaying it.

                    Al
                  • aggreen1
                    ... was not) ... voter fraud ... ***And since the so-called voter fraud (I question whether there was really any such thing), was generated by the 527
                    Message 9 of 27 , Nov 5, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "Lewis H Whitaker"
                      <aspern@m...> wrote:
                      >
                      > The fact that Bush won the election does not mean that God was (or
                      was not)
                      > with him. As the reports are starting to come in about potential
                      voter fraud
                      > one starts to wonder.
                      >
                      > Lewis H Whitaker


                      ***And since the so-called voter fraud (I question whether there was
                      really any such thing), was generated by the 527 crowds...

                      Al
                    • ikonsareholy
                      ... As I m new on this list yet not new to Orthodoxy I have seen some of my brethen upset over this election. While I no longer believe in the system, I m sad
                      Message 10 of 27 , Nov 5, 2004
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                        --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, Beau Branson <BBRANSON@N...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Let's hope that when the next airplane full of terrorists crashes into
                        > the White House, Bush's ikon of the Theotokos will still be standing.
                        As I'm new on this list yet not new to Orthodoxy I have seen some of
                        my brethen upset over this election. While I no longer believe in the
                        system, I'm sad we are lesser of a Christian nation at times when we
                        get bitter & bile runs over into our spiritual cups, yet despite not
                        really wanting either candidate for our president I would never
                        entertain the thought of what happened on 9-1-1 happening again. The
                        only church from what I understand was hit was from the GOA, about 2-3
                        blocks from the towers. Innoncent people, including Orthodox
                        Christians were hurt as they lost loved ones. While I no longer
                        believe in the system Holy Scripture gives me no reason to rebel
                        against our leaders. Instead I will pra for a more Christian nation,
                        balanced in every sense I saw the Orthodox balanced in Grace from our
                        Lord. As well president Bush has family members that love him, I
                        believe he loves them, so it will never bring joy to me when loved
                        ones are killed in such ugly violence. As well St.Nicholas the last
                        Czar was by far a more humble Christ-like leader than any in this
                        nation, I have asked him to pray for me on this latest issue, maybe we
                        all can look to Saint Nicholas for his prayers.
                        In Christ
                        Xenos Mann
                      • slavipodvizhnik
                        -Wow, I didn t mean to start a political squabble, as this is not the proper place for it. But for whatever reason, God has given the power of authority to Mr
                        Message 11 of 27 , Nov 5, 2004
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                          -Wow, I didn't mean to start a political squabble, as this is not
                          the proper place for it. But for whatever reason, God has given the
                          power of authority to Mr Bush, and whether we agree or disagree with
                          his policies, I think we can all agree that he deserves our respect.
                          That said, I will still sleep better at night knowing that the
                          Theotokos is in the White House.And that Monica Lewinski is not.
                          sinful Alexandr

                          -- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "aggreen1" <aggreen1@y...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "Lewis H Whitaker"
                          > <aspern@m...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > The fact that Bush won the election does not mean that God was
                          (or
                          > was not)
                          > > with him. As the reports are starting to come in about potential
                          > voter fraud
                          > > one starts to wonder.
                          > >
                          > > Lewis H Whitaker
                          >
                          >
                          > ***And since the so-called voter fraud (I question whether there
                          was
                          > really any such thing), was generated by the 527 crowds...
                          >
                          > Al
                        • ddd
                          Even if the icon were given to to President Bush, he could have thrown it in the trash or kept it hidden under a velvet cover. He will not lose his reward at
                          Message 12 of 27 , Nov 6, 2004
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                            Even if the icon were given to to President Bush, he could have thrown it in the trash or kept it hidden under a velvet cover. He will not lose his reward at the Dread Judgment even for treating it with respect and displaying it in a prominent place. Remember the man who got put out with the beggar and threw a loaf of bread at him in anger. He got a reward even for that! (which turned him to do more good, sincerely, later)

                            --Dimitra


                            > From: Nicholas Steblez <crocodile1953@...>
                            > Subject: Re: Bush and theTheotokos
                            >
                            >
                            > Dear Brothers and Sisters
                            >
                            > Christ is in our midst!
                            >
                            > One can't be certain, but I suppose that the icon might have been a
                            > gift from some Orthodox church, bishop, official, or the like, or
                            > perhaps it was a gift from Putin when he was visiting. Somehow, I
                            > doubt that he decided on getting it himself. ;-)
                            >
                            > The unworthy servant of God
                            > Nicholas Steblez
                          • ddd
                            It seems... I m not sure... Since we really don t know the state of President Bush s soul, nor why the icon is displayed prominently in his residence,
                            Message 13 of 27 , Nov 6, 2004
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                              "It seems..." "I'm not sure..."
                              Since we really don't know the state of President Bush's soul, nor why the icon is displayed prominently in his residence, maybe we'd better just take what is good and call it good, and comment about the bad separately.

                              --Dimitra


                              > From: Beau Branson <BBRANSON@...>
                              > Subject: Re: Bush and theTheotokos
                              >
                              >
                              > It seems like it wouldn't be too much of a trick for the Anti-
                              > Christ himself to put up a few ikons.  And I'm not sure that's too
                              > far from the case here.
                              >
                              > --Symeon
                            • rdsieckmann
                              Bravo! ... From: slavipodvizhnik To: Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 12:55 AM Subject:
                              Message 14 of 27 , Nov 6, 2004
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                                Bravo!

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "slavipodvizhnik" <swingsitter@...>
                                To: <orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 12:55 AM
                                Subject: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Bush and theTheotokos


                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > -Wow, I didn't mean to start a political squabble, as this is not
                                > the proper place for it. But for whatever reason, God has given the
                                > power of authority to Mr Bush, and whether we agree or disagree with
                                > his policies, I think we can all agree that he deserves our respect.
                                > That said, I will still sleep better at night knowing that the
                                > Theotokos is in the White House.And that Monica Lewinski is not.
                                > sinful Alexandr
                                >
                                > -- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "aggreen1" <aggreen1@y...>
                                > wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "Lewis H Whitaker"
                                > > <aspern@m...> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > The fact that Bush won the election does not mean that God was
                                > (or
                                > > was not)
                                > > > with him. As the reports are starting to come in about potential
                                > > voter fraud
                                > > > one starts to wonder.
                                > > >
                                > > > Lewis H Whitaker
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ***And since the so-called voter fraud (I question whether there
                                > was
                                > > really any such thing), was generated by the 527 crowds...
                                > >
                                > > Al
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Posts to this list need to be signed with your full (and real) name.
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                              • Lewis H Whitaker
                                I have a life, and I strive to improve it daily. My references to voter fraud are to the harassment of persons waiting to vote, to the voting machines that
                                Message 15 of 27 , Nov 6, 2004
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                                  I have a life, and I strive to improve it daily.

                                  My references to voter fraud are to the harassment of persons waiting to
                                  vote, to the voting machines that registered votes for the other candidate,
                                  the disparity between the exit polls and the actual vote counts, the ballots
                                  in Florida and elsewhere that are missing, the lack of any type of "paper
                                  trail" to audit the votes from electronic machines, the Diebold CEO's
                                  promise to "Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the President."

                                  This, however, is not the purpose of the list, and it's not why I joined. It
                                  will be my last comment on this issue.

                                  Lew

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Nicholas Trahan [mailto:ntrahan@...]
                                  Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 8:55 PM
                                  To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Bush and theTheotokos



                                  What reports? what voter fraud? Get a life!

                                  > From: "Lewis H Whitaker" <aspern@...>
                                  > Reply-To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 18:11:27 -0500
                                  > To: <orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > Subject: RE: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Bush and theTheotokos
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > The fact that Bush won the election does not mean that God was (or was
                                  not)
                                  > with him. As the reports are starting to come in about potential voter
                                  fraud
                                  > one starts to wonder.
                                  >
                                  > Lewis H Whitaker
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: Eugene Grushetsky [mailto:grush002@...]
                                  > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 6:09 PM
                                  > To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: Re: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Bush and theTheotokos
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- Beau Branson <BBRANSON@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >>
                                  >> Let's hope that when the next airplane full of
                                  >> terrorists crashes into
                                  >> the White House, Bush's ikon of the Theotokos will
                                  >> still be standing.
                                  >>
                                  >> --S.
                                  > My goodness, what a range of visions on the bare fact
                                  > of icon of Theotokos and W. May be It simply means
                                  > that God is with Bush ?. Alleluia, now at least we
                                  > know why he won elections.
                                  > Fr. E. Grushetsky.
                                  >>
                                  >> On Friday, November 5, 2004, at 01:19 PM,
                                  >> Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                                  >> wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Some American friends were given an Icon of Christ
                                  >> as a gift. They
                                  >>> were Protestant but had a reverence for the
                                  >> "portrait of Jesus" and
                                  >>> hung it on a wall with respect and dignity but out
                                  >> of the way. When
                                  >>> the big Loma Linda Earthquake hit California their
                                  >> house was extremely
                                  >>> damaged and all their furniture was trashed,
                                  >> windows broken and doors
                                  >>> cracked and off the hedges, and all the wall
                                  >> hangings fell to the
                                  >>> floor and were broken, save one piece, the Holy
                                  >> Icon of Christ which
                                  >>> remained on the Wall and it was the first item
                                  >> they noticed as they
                                  >>> examined their loses. The Icon was hung most
                                  >> prominently in their
                                  >>> rebuilt home!
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Archpriest Stefan Pavlenko
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>> --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, Beau
                                  >> Branson <BBRANSON@N...>
                                  >>> wrote:
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> It seems like it wouldn't be too much of a trick
                                  >> for the Anti-Christ
                                  >>>> himself to put up a few ikons. And I'm not sure
                                  >> that's too far from
                                  >>>> the case here.
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> --Symeon
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> On Friday, November 5, 2004, at 11:59 AM, larry
                                  >> most wrote:
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>> GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST - GLORY TO HIM FOREVER
                                  >>>>> Dear Alexandr,
                                  >>>>> I noticed that right away, too.
                                  >>>>> Love in Christ,
                                  >>>>> Sub-deacon Lawrence
                                  >>>>> --- slavipodvizhnik <swingsitter@y...> wrote:
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>> Dear Brothers and sisters in Christ,
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>> Did anyone else notice the icon of the
                                  >> Vladimirskaya
                                  >>>>>> Mother of God
                                  >>>>>> prominantly displayed in President Bush's
                                  >> private
                                  >>>>>> residence? I
                                  >>>>>> noticed it election night as they showed the
                                  >>>>>> President relaxing at
                                  >>>>>> home with his family. He may be an evangelical
                                  >>>>>> Christian, but if
                                  >>>>>> he, even unknowingly, reveres the Mother of
                                  >> God, is
                                  >>>>>> it any wonder
                                  >>>>>> that he won? Food for thought.
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>> Sinful Alexandr Cvejkus
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>>
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>> __________________________________
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                                • Beau Branson
                                  What, Al? It s a lousy thought that I hoped the ikon of the Theotokos will still be standing? That, after all, was what my post said before you EDITED IT.
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Nov 6, 2004
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                                    What, Al? It's a lousy thought that I hoped the ikon of the Theotokos
                                    will still be standing? That, after all, was what my post said before
                                    you EDITED IT.


                                    On Friday, November 5, 2004, at 07:49 PM, aggreen1 wrote:

                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, Beau Branson <BBRANSON@N...>
                                    > wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >> Let's hope that when the next airplane full of terrorists crashes
                                    > into
                                    >> the White House
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ***What an absolutely lousy, sinful thought...especially from an
                                    > Orthodox Christian. For shame!
                                    >
                                    > Al
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Posts to this list need to be signed with your full (and real) name.
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Eugene Grushetsky
                                    ... You reminded me the time I was at the lectures at Duke Divinity school, it is a Methodist institution historically, so it was at 1994, prof. Steve Long
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Nov 6, 2004
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                                      --- aggreen1 <aggreen1@...> wrote:

                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, Eugene
                                      > Grushetsky
                                      > <grush002@y...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > --- Beau Branson <BBRANSON@N...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      >> > My goodness, what a range of visions on the bare
                                      > fact
                                      > > of icon of Theotokos and W. May be It simply means
                                      > > that God is with Bush ?. Alleluia, now at least we
                                      > > know why he won elections.
                                      > > Fr. E. Grushetsky.
                                      >
                                      > ***I suspect, Father, that President Bush, a
                                      > Methodist, doesn't have
                                      > the same reverance for the Holy Mother that Orthodox
                                      > Christians have.
                                      > Bush was raised an Episcopalian, dabbled for a time
                                      > in the
                                      > Presbyterian Church before moving on to the United
                                      > Methodist Church.
                                      You reminded me the time I was at the lectures at
                                      Duke Divinity school, it is a Methodist institution
                                      historically, so it was at 1994, prof. Steve Long
                                      told: the XXI-st century will be the age of
                                      Theotokos'. How is that?
                                      And then if political leader allowed the ikon of Our
                                      Lady to be inside his chambers, it bears inevitably
                                      political meaning and sign of coming changes in
                                      American elite, may be.
                                      Fr. E. Grushetsky.
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >




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                                    • Eugene Grushetsky
                                      ... I am agree that it is shockingly shameful to read such reckless words on Christian site, they are very Osamish, may be Seraphim has his picture on the wall
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Nov 6, 2004
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- ikonsareholy <ikonsareholy@...> wrote:

                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, Beau Branson
                                        > <BBRANSON@N...> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Let's hope that when the next airplane full of
                                        > terrorists crashes into
                                        > > the White House, Bush's ikon of the Theotokos will
                                        > still be standing.
                                        I am agree that it is shockingly shameful to read such
                                        reckless words on Christian site, they are very
                                        Osamish, may be Seraphim has his picture on the wall
                                        of his cell?
                                        Fr. E. Grushetsky.
                                        > > against our leaders. Instead I will pra for a more
                                        > > Xenos Mann
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >


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                                      • Fr. John Whiteford
                                        I think this thread has run it s course, and has gotten way off topic. Let s let it go. =====
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Nov 6, 2004
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                                          I think this thread has run it's course, and has
                                          gotten way off topic. Let's let it go.




                                          =====
                                          *****************************************************************
                                          Fr. John Whiteford
                                          St. Jonah Orthodox Church
                                          Parish Home Page: http://www.saintjonah.org/
                                          Parish Discussion Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjonah/
                                          ROCOR Discussion Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-rocor/
                                        • aggreen1
                                          ***The Theotokos icon notwithstanding, my comment was based on your preface. It s a terrible thought about terrorists in a plane hitting the White House. Al
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Nov 9, 2004
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                                            ***The Theotokos icon notwithstanding, my comment was based on your
                                            preface. It's a terrible thought about terrorists in a plane hitting
                                            the White House.

                                            Al



                                            --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, Beau Branson <BBRANSON@N...>
                                            wrote:
                                            >
                                            > What, Al? It's a lousy thought that I hoped the ikon of the
                                            Theotokos
                                            > will still be standing? That, after all, was what my post said
                                            before
                                            > you EDITED IT.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > On Friday, November 5, 2004, at 07:49 PM, aggreen1 wrote:
                                            >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, Beau Branson
                                            <BBRANSON@N...>
                                            > > wrote:
                                            > >>
                                            > >> Let's hope that when the next airplane full of terrorists crashes
                                            > > into
                                            > >> the White House
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > ***What an absolutely lousy, sinful thought...especially from an
                                            > > Orthodox Christian. For shame!
                                            > >
                                            > > Al
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Posts to this list need to be signed with your full (and real)
                                            name.
                                            > >
                                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                          • Fr. John Whiteford
                                            This thread is closed. ... hitting ... crashes
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Nov 9, 2004
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                                              This thread is closed.

                                              --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "aggreen1" <aggreen1@y...>
                                              wrote:
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ***The Theotokos icon notwithstanding, my comment was based on your
                                              > preface. It's a terrible thought about terrorists in a plane
                                              hitting
                                              > the White House.
                                              >
                                              > Al
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, Beau Branson <BBRANSON@N...>
                                              > wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > What, Al? It's a lousy thought that I hoped the ikon of the
                                              > Theotokos
                                              > > will still be standing? That, after all, was what my post said
                                              > before
                                              > > you EDITED IT.
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > On Friday, November 5, 2004, at 07:49 PM, aggreen1 wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, Beau Branson
                                              > <BBRANSON@N...>
                                              > > > wrote:
                                              > > >>
                                              > > >> Let's hope that when the next airplane full of terrorists
                                              crashes
                                              > > > into
                                              > > >> the White House
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > ***What an absolutely lousy, sinful thought...especially from an
                                              > > > Orthodox Christian. For shame!
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Al
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Posts to this list need to be signed with your full (and real)
                                              > name.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
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