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Re: [orthodox-rocor] Re: [rocorclergy-churchaffairs] Appeal

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  • aaronandbrighid@aol.com
    Dear Sub-deacon Lawrence, I m all for letting the bishops do their job. Actually, my primary point about the petition was that if we interpret it kindly, it
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 8, 2004
      Dear Sub-deacon Lawrence,
      I'm all for letting the bishops do their job. Actually, my primary point
      about the petition was that if we interpret it kindly, it seems to me that it is
      still asking the bishops to do something they are already doing. I have a
      hard time understanding why anyone should be worried enough to write or sign a
      petition. And I'm not convinced by the statements made in this petition about
      the historical view of the Church Abroad towards the Moscow Patriarchate (at the
      very least, it seems clear that the mainstream position has always been that
      the MP was at least a part of the Russian Orthodox Church), but that's an
      issue I'm not qualified to address. I agree entirely that some of the postings on
      these issues have been goofy indeed.

      forgive me,
      aaron


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Fr Anthony Bridges
      Dear Subdeacon Lawrence, Our bishops are doing their jobs, and we are praying for them. However, that does not mean the rest of us cannot discuss these
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 9, 2004
        Dear Subdeacon Lawrence,

        Our bishops are doing their jobs, and we are praying for them. However, that
        does not mean the rest of us cannot discuss these matters. If you read
        Church history, you will find that there are many cases of bishops and
        councils making decisions that were later rejected by the people.

        Everyone who is Orthodox is responsible for the purity of the faith.

        Deacon Anthony



        -----Original Message-----
        From: larry most [mailto:larrymost2002@...]
        Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 9:51 PM
        To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [orthodox-rocor] Re: [rocorclergy-churchaffairs] Appeal


        ---
        GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST-GLORY TO HIM FOREVER
        Dear Aaron and Father Anthony,
        I've been following this thread about re-uniting the
        MP church and ROCOR and (me of course being a "stupid
        American convert") I'm trying to figure out what will
        happen if we should re-unite. I have a very hard time,
        being so critical of the Patriarchal Church during the
        dark years of communism, when I lived a life of
        relative "luxury" here in the US. Some of these
        posting on this subject are utterly goofy. Why don't
        we just let our Bishops do their job and pray for the
        guidance of the Holy Spirit?
        Love in Christ,
        Sub-deacon Lawrence Most


        Fr Anthony Bridges <franthony@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dear Fr Anthony,
        > If you acknowledge that these former schisms were
        > mistakes, why don't you
        > simply state that you have no intention of following
        > their example and
        > creating
        > a schism if things don't go the way you want them?
        >
        >
        > Dear Aaron,
        >
        > I have no intention of following their example and
        > creating a schism if
        > things don't go the way I want them to.
        >
        > I don't mind saying that at all. However, nobody
        > ever asked me to before,
        > and besides, why should it be necessary? I thought I
        > was innocent until
        > proven guilty.
        >
        >
        > Aaron continued:
        >
        > I don't think anyone actually wants to see anyone
        > else leave,
        >
        > Deacon Anthony replies:
        >
        > Then you have more faith in human nature than do I.
        >
        > Aaron continues:
        >
        > but it seems to me that this petition
        > suggests a great deal of confidence in the
        > signatories' own opinions and
        > almost
        > none in the wisdom of our bishops.
        >
        > Deacon Anthony replies:
        >
        > If you are talking about the Liberty petition, I
        > have to say that it might
        > read that way to you, but it wasn't intended that
        > way.
        >
        >
        > Aaron continues:
        >
        > If it is true that you don't trust the
        > bishops to do the right thing, it is incredible to
        > me that you haven't left
        > already.
        >
        > Deacon Anthony replies:
        >
        > Maybe you have answered your own question here,
        > Aaron.
        >
        >
        > Aaron continues:
        >
        > If it isn't true, then I think the petition is badly
        > worded and will only
        > serve to drive a wedge between various persons in
        > the Church Abroad.
        >
        >
        > Deacon Anthony replies:
        >
        > I agree with you that the Liberty petition is not a
        > masterpiece of writing.
        > In fact, I made that point when it was composed.
        > However, I was not able to
        > significantly affect the final result in terms of
        > the language used. I
        > agreed with the intended points, so I signed. No
        > such document is ever going
        > to be perfect, with the possible exception of the
        > Declaration of
        > Independence.
        >
        >
        > Aaron continues:
        >
        > The petition purports to simply say, 'Talk about
        > these issues before
        > reunion', but I
        > thought that was what the commissions were supposed
        > to be doing. And to
        > speak of
        > avoiding even 'the appearance' of a compromise is to
        > invite all kinds of
        > subjective craziness to the table. What looks like a
        > compromise to the
        > Vitalyites or
        > the Panteleimonites certainly does not look like one
        > to me.
        >
        > Deacon Anthony replies:
        >
        > Yes, the commissions are supposed to be talking
        > about these issues. We were
        > simply adding a strong emphasis to the necessity for
        > that to be a serious
        > conversation. As for avoiding the appearance of
        > compromise, I have to say
        > that it is very difficult to word a document like
        > this in just the right
        > way. The point of that is that we are asking for the
        > process of
        > rapprochement to be done in an open and fair way. It
        > seems as if there is a
        > tendency for this to be hurried up, and for some of
        > the serious questions to
        > be swept under the rug. We were simply asking for
        > things to be slowed down
        > and opened up more, to give people time to really
        > see what is going on and
        > evaluate it.
        >
        > As for the "Vitalyites" and "Panteleimonites," I am
        > not sure why you bring
        > them up. They have removed themselves from the
        > process entirely.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > forgive me,
        > aaron taylor
        > St Benedict Orthodox Church
        > Oklahoma City, OK
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
        > removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
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        > (and real) name.
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        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >




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