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Re: [orthodox-rocor] St. Tikhon Concelebrated With Episcopalians?

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  • nectarios@iveron.org
    Shocking!! But one thing remains clear. St. Tikhon was not glorified because of his actions in America, he was glorified for dying for his faith, he was a
    Message 1 of 3 , Jul 8, 2004
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      Shocking!! But one thing remains clear. St. Tikhon was not glorified
      because of his actions in America, he was glorified for dying for his faith,
      he was a martyr of the Church. As was St. John Kochurov when he was
      martyred in Russia. Saints make mistakes, they are not perfect. We can sin
      all throughout our life, but one act in itself, can erase all the
      handwritings of our sins.

      Saints such as Herman and John Maximovitch WERE glorified by the lives they
      led.

      Overreaction is unwarranted, and can be damaging to the Church. I would
      like to know which "groups" would dare to de-glorify a martyr??

      Rdr. Nectarios in Hawaii

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "aggreen1" <aggreen1@...>
      To: <orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 3:29 PM
      Subject: [orthodox-rocor] St. Tikhon Concelebrated With Episcopalians?


      > Here's a most interesting news items making the rounds of the
      > internet.
      >
      > Al
      >
      >
      > [Retrograd, 07.08.2004]
      >
      > Shocking New Evidence of Concelebration of a Russian Saint and
      > Patriarch, Tikhon the New Martyr, with Anglican Heretics during His
      > Time in the United States.
      >
      > The excitement in some Orthodox circles over what they view as
      > Patriarch Bartholomew's concelebration in Rome last week has led to
      > the discovery that one of Russia' most revered new Saints, Patriarch
      > Tikhon of Moscow, long before Bartholomew's Roman junket last week,
      > also indulged in concelebration with the non-Orthodox.
      >
      > Photographic evidence has been found of Saint Tikhon wearing his
      > mantiya at the consecration of an Episcopalian bishop in Wisconsin.
      > Many Orthodox
      > traditionalists believe that the wearing of a mantiya at heterodox
      > services signifies concelebration. We understand that some Orthodox
      > jurisdictions have
      > already removed icons of Saint Tikhon from their churches and will
      > not include his name in the 2005 Calendar.
      >
      > "We are very disappointed," said a subdeacon from his domestic chapel
      > speaking on conditions of anonymity, "that this man whom we revere as
      > the founder of our Church in Exile has been newly revealed as a
      > despiser of the sacred Canons and a concelebrator with heretics. But
      > the evidence cannot be denied. As the Russian saying goes: one
      > picture is worth a thousand words. And we can now see the Patriarch
      > vested for concelebration together with Episcopalian bishops vested
      > in eucharistic vestments with copes and mitres. By this action he
      > ipso facto flagrante excommunicated himself from the bosom of the
      > Church."
      >
      > The subdeacon commented, in a rare flash of dark humour, "This
      > concelebration took place in Wisconsin at Fon-du-lac and that is
      > where those who concelebrated are now domiciled - at the bottom of
      > the lake, the lake of eternal fire. My wife is very upset since we
      > have named all our boys after this Patriarch. Tikhon I Perviy was
      > born nine years ago, followed by Tikhon the Twoth in 1996 and then
      > Tikhon the Third only last year."
      >
      > The Patriarch who will soon be deglorified by some Orthodox groups is
      > pictured in the photograph with another Saint, the Russian priest
      > Ioann Kochuroff, who will also be erased from the roll of Saints
      > (although some groups have never recognised his sanctity.)
      >
      > The photograph which has so shocked the Orthodox world may be viewed
      > at
      >
      > http://www.westernorthodox.com/stmark/lion/lion2004-04
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
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      >
      >
    • Fr. John Whiteford
      Rdr Nectarios wrote: Shocking!! But one thing remains clear. St. Tikhon was not glorified because of his actions in America, he was glorified for dying for
      Message 2 of 3 , Jul 9, 2004
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        Rdr Nectarios wrote:

        "Shocking!! But one thing remains clear. St. Tikhon
        was not glorified because of his actions in America,
        he was glorified for dying for his faith, he was a
        martyr of the Church. As was St. John Kochurov when
        he was martyred in Russia. Saints make mistakes, they
        are not perfect. We can sin all throughout our life,
        but one act in itself, can erase all the handwritings
        of our sins."

        Me: It is not so shocking. I would agree that it
        should not have happened, but the moral of the story
        is that things have never been so neat and cut and
        dried as some would like to imagine.

        Rdr Nectarios: "Saints such as Herman and John
        Maximovitch WERE glorified by the lives they led."

        Me: Here again is something to consider. St. John had
        at least one New Calendar diocese that he administered
        when he was in France... and that diocese was also
        Western Rite. There is also documentary proof, which
        was present at the Nyack clergy conference by Fr.
        Peter Perekrestov which shows that after World War II,
        St. John was briefly under the impression that the
        ROCOR had ceased to function as a result of the war
        (keep in mind that it's headquarters had been moved to
        Germany), and since he did not believe that the
        Chinese Church was capable of autonomy, they should
        petition the MP to be received by them. When he
        discovered later that the ROCOR was still functioning,
        he alone among the Chinese bishops backed away from
        that... but not because he believed the MP to be
        illegitimate, but only because he belonged to the
        ROCOR and had no legitimate basis to separate himself
        from that authority. He also considered the Paris
        Jurisdiction and the American Metropolia to be fully
        Orthodox, and had good relations with them.

        Rdr Nectarios: "Overreaction is unwarranted, and can
        be damaging to the Church. I would like to know which
        "groups" would dare to de-glorify a martyr??"

        Me: This piece is a satire of what one often reads
        from extremists. The first clue is the source:
        "[Retrograd, 07.08.2004]"... which is a spoof of
        "Vertograd".




        =====
        *****************************************************************
        Fr. John Whiteford
        St. Jonah Orthodox Church
        Parish Home Page: http://www.saintjonah.org/
        Parish Discussion Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjonah/
        ROCOR Discussion Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-rocor/
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