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Re: What should Orthodox Christians do when they have no Orthodox parish to attend?

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  • jsbaglien
    I concur with Fr. John that Fr. Evan s unfortunate response probably stems from having only a superficial exposure to heterodox confessions, and am in entire
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 30, 2012
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      I concur with Fr. John that Fr. Evan's unfortunate response probably stems from having only a superficial exposure to heterodox confessions, and am in entire agreement with Fr. John's comments, both as to the inadmissibility of worshiping at heterodox services, and as to the importance of the faithful being able to serve readers services when isolated for one reason or another.

      The latter should be part of the 'skill set' of every Orthodox Christian. (In fact, it occurs to me that we should provide formal instruction for this, both in parish classes and at such venues as the St. Herman's conferences.)

      As Orthodox, we live within the cycles of the Church, and wish to remain so even when we are not physically able to attend services at a parish. This may occur over extended periods in our lives (i.e., when attending a school or assigned to work in spiritually isolated areas), or for short periods, as when traveling.

      The history of our mission parishes gives numerous examples of how first a family, then a small group, serving readers services in isolated areas become the nucleus of a future parish. And nothing so impresses our children as to the importance of the services and our Orthodox faith, as when we observe them even when traveling.

      in IC XC,

      Priest James Baglien





      --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John Whiteford" <frjohnwhiteford@...> wrote:
      >
      > http://fatherjohn.blogspot.com/2012/11/what-should-orthodox-christians-do-when.html
      >  
      >
      >  
      > The Holy New Martyr Lydia of Russia
      > Towards the end of the inaugural show of Ancient Faith Radio's Orthodoxy Live, Fr. Evan Armetas was asked a question: what should Orthodox Christians
      > do, if they live in an area where there are no Orthodox Churches nearby? Is it OK to go to a heterodox Church in such a case, when you are not
      > able to go to an Orthodox parish?
      >
      > Fr. Evan's answer indicated that he knew his answer would be
      > controversial, but he said that his own pastoral response was that it
      > was OK. He said that they should go to those churches in order to hear
      > "the liturgy of the word" and for fellowship. You can hear the question
      > and his answer by clicking this link, beginning at about the 55 minute
      > mark: http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/orthodoxylive/november_18_2012
      >
      > I have no doubts that Fr. Evan's answer was sincere, and I am sure that
      > he thinks it is better than any alternative. And since he was raised in
      > the Church, I think it is partly due to a lack of time spent actually
      > attending such heterodox churches.
      >
      > I strongly disagree with Fr. Evan's answer, and for a number of reasons. First and foremost, the canons forbid us to go to Non-Orthodox houses of worship or to pray with non-Orthodox Christians or schismatics:
      >
      > Canon LXV of the Apostles says: "If any clergymen, or laymen, enter a synagogue of Jews, or of heretics, to pray,
      > let him be both deposed and excommunicated."
      >
      > Canon IX of Laodicia says: "Concerning the fact that those belonging to the Church must not be allowed to go
      > visiting the cemeteries or the so called martyria of any heretics, for the purpose of
      > prayer or of cure, but, on the contrary, those who do so, if they be among the faithful,
      > shall be excluded from communion for a time until they repent and confess their having
      > made a mistake, when they may be readmitted to communion." 
      >
      > And Canon XXXIII of Laodicia says: "One must not join in prayer with heretics or schismatics."
      >
      > All of these canons have Ecumenical authority, having been approved by the Sixth and Seventh Ecumenical Councils.
      >
      > Sometimes the counter argument that one hears to this is that the
      > heretics at the time of these canons were much worse than the average
      > Protestant and Roman Catholic, but the last canon referenced says were
      > are not to pray with heretics or schismatics. Schismatics differ from us
      > in no theological way at all, at least in the beginning, and so any
      > schismatic group would be a thousand times closer to the Orthodox than
      > any Protestant or Roman Catholic.
      >
      > To cite a relatively recent example from the lives of the Saints, one should consider the Holy New Martyr Lydia or Russia (you can hear a sermon on her life by clicking here). She lived during the time of the so-called "Living Church" which was a renovationist schism that was established by the Soviets,
      > and for a time it was the "official" Church -- and the only Church
      > allowed by the Soviets to function openly. St. Lydia's own father joined the Living Church, not out of conviction, but out of fear of
      > persecution. St. Lydia departed from her father, and we are told that
      > she only rarely went to Church during that time, because she would not
      > attend the "Official Church", and the Catacomb Churches did not hold
      > regular services. So unless she was able to attend services in a
      > legitimate Orthodox Church she stayed home and prayed. As bad as the
      > Living Church was, it was far closer to Orthodoxy than any Protestant or Roman Catholic church. One would be far more likely to hear something
      > approximating the "Liturgy of the word" in such a Church. But St. Lydia
      > refused to go.
      >
      > Aside from the canons, there are two practical reasons why I think that Fr. Evan's advice should not be followed:
      >
      > 1). One would not hear anything close to the "Liturgy of the word" in
      > most Protestant or Catholic churches. One one would likely encounter
      > would range from the absolutely heretical to the mildly heretical. If
      > one knows what to reject and what to pay attention to, there are many
      > heterodox clergy who have edifying things to say, but the problem is
      > that the average Orthodox layman does not have the knowledge to know
      > what to reject and what to listen to, and so would almost certainly be
      > led astray by regular exposure to such preaching.
      >
      > 2). In the history of Orthodoxy in the United States there have been
      > many Orthodox who did exactly what Fr. Evan suggested. Some, if they
      > eventually found there way to an Orthodox Church remained in the Church.
      > But in most cases, such people lost their connection with the Church...
      > and this is all the more true of their children, who in most cases grew
      > up thinking of themselves as belonging to the group that they were
      > raised in.
      >
      > So what should an Orthodox Christian do if there are no Orthodox Churches in their area?
      >
      > First of all, they should figure out which parish is the closest, and
      > they should try to attend there as often as they can. In our time, this
      > is made very simple by the internet. There is a very good website called
      > "Orthodoxy in America", where you can simply enter your zip code and
      > find any parish that is within a certain radius: http://orthodoxyinamerica.org/   The Assembly of Canonical Orthodox Bishops in North America also have a similar directory: http://assemblyofbishops.org/directories/parishes
      >
      > Secondly, when they are not able to go to the nearest parish, they
      > should pray at home. Every Orthodox home is a little Church, and if
      > there are no other Orthodox parishes near enough for you to attend, then
      > it is the Church you should be attending.
      >
      > You can hear the "Liturgy of the word" by serving Typika (or Obednitsa,
      > as it is sometimes called). I regularly update this page, where one can
      > find the text of Typika (when served in the absence of a priest) and the
      > variable portions of Typika for Sundays and Feast days by clicking
      > here: http://www.saintjonah.org/typ/ You can find instructions on how to do lay services, as well as other texts for that purpose by clicking here: http://www.saintjonah.org/services/horologion.htm
      >
      > With the blessing of their bishop, they may also want to advertize their
      > services. They could do so at no cost, by setting a blog and posting
      > information about their services. They may find that there are some
      > other Orthodox Christians in their area, and their house Church may be
      > the beginnings of a future parish.
      >
      > As Archbishop Averky (of blessed memory) observed, many Orthodox
      > Christians have the mistaken notion that they are almost unable to pray
      > at all without a priest; but short of the sacraments, any Orthodox
      > Christian can -- and, in the instances we are discussing, should, to the
      > best of their ability -- do the full cycle of services for Sundays and
      > Feast days. See: Comments on Reader Services by Archbishop Averky,of blessed memory.
      >
      > With all that is available for free on the internet these days, it is
      > not difficult for an Orthodox Christian to at least do some regular
      > services in their own homes, when they cannot attend a parish. And
      > instead of setting your children up to drift into heterodoxy, you will
      > provide them with a vivid example of the effort that one should put
      > forth to maintain their faith in a largely non-Orthodox culture.
      >
      >
      > Presbyter John Whiteford
      > St. Jonah Orthodox Church
      > Parish Home Page: http://www.saintjonah.org/
      > ROCOR Discussion Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-rocor/
      > Parish News: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjonah/
      > Blog: http://fatherjohn.blogspot.com/
      > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/frjohnwhiteford
      > "This is the cause of all evils: the ignorance of the Scriptures. We go into battle without arms, and how ought we to come off safe?" -St. John Chrysostom, Homily IX on Colossians.
      >
    • hobbitofny
      I would recommend in addition to using the Typika at home to use the Old Believer text: The Gospel Commentary translated by Hieromonk German Cuiba. It is a
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 2, 2012
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        I would recommend in addition to using the Typika at home to use the Old Believer text: The Gospel Commentary translated by Hieromonk German Cuiba. "It is a collection of homilies for the Sundays and feast-days of the church year, drawn from the Holy Fathers and customarily read in church." http://www.churchofthenativity.net/publications/the-gospel-commentary/

        Many of the Patriarch of Moscow services are on line to suppliment the prayer at home.

        Dale Dickerson

        --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John Whiteford" <frjohnwhiteford@...> wrote:
        >
        > Secondly, when they are not able to go to the nearest parish, they
        > should pray at home. Every Orthodox home is a little Church, and if
        > there are no other Orthodox parishes near enough for you to attend, then
        > it is the Church you should be attending.
        >
        > You can hear the "Liturgy of the word" by serving Typika (or Obednitsa,
        > as it is sometimes called). I regularly update this page, where one can
        > find the text of Typika (when served in the absence of a priest) and the
        > variable portions of Typika for Sundays and Feast days by clicking
        > here: http://www.saintjonah.org/typ/ You can find instructions on how to do lay services, as well as other texts for that purpose by clicking here: http://www.saintjonah.org/services/horologion.htm
        >
        > With the blessing of their bishop, they may also want to advertize their
        > services. They could do so at no cost, by setting a blog and posting
        > information about their services. They may find that there are some
        > other Orthodox Christians in their area, and their house Church may be
        > the beginnings of a future parish.
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