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RE: [orthodox-rocor] Bishop Daniels Funeral

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  • Simon, Steven
    Dear Mike, The pre-Nikonian Great Potrebnik in which we found the service for the funeral of a hierarch made no mention of covering the bishop s face. However,
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 30, 2010
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      Dear Mike,

      The pre-Nikonian Great Potrebnik in which we found the service for the funeral of a hierarch made no mention of covering the bishop’s face. However, we knew that this is the normal practice. At first we covered his face when we brought him into the church. But then many parishioners pleaded for us to let his face be uncovered during the funeral. Fr. Theodore, our assistant priest, asked the presiding hierarch, Bishop George,  if he had any strong objections to that being done, and he told Fr. Theodore, that if that is what was the desire, he had no objections. After the absolution prayer, the klobuk with its veil was placed over Vladika Daniel’s face and he was carried out of the church and remained in that form at the cemetery until the anointing oil was poured over him and the shroud covered him. Then the lid of the coffin was placed onto the coffin.

      Fr. Pimen Simon

       

      From: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com [mailto:orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of morechoff@...
      Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 2:56 PM
      To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [orthodox-rocor] Bishop Daniels Funeral

       

       

       

      Bishop Daniel's face was not covered during the funeral. Is that an Old Believer's tradition? Normally, I see the Bishop's face covered.

      Mike Orechoff
      CA

    • sajezv
      This makes me wonder if it was always the practice to cover the face of hierarches, clergy, monastics? Does anyone know if this was not always the case and
      Message 2 of 8 , May 3, 2010
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        This makes me wonder if it was always the practice to cover the face of hierarches, clergy, monastics? Does anyone know if this was not always the case and when it became a practice? As of late, I've noticed that in non-ROCOR funerals there seems to be an increase at clergy funerals of leaving the face uncovered. As I recall even Bishop Job's (OCA) face was uncovered. Can anyone offer some insight on this practice? Thanks.

        Valeria

        --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "Simon, Steven" <ssimon@...> wrote:
        >
        > Dear Mike,
        > The pre-Nikonian Great Potrebnik in which we found the service for the funeral of a hierarch made no mention of covering the bishop's face. However, we knew that this is the normal practice. At first we covered his face when we brought him into the church. But then many parishioners pleaded for us to let his face be uncovered during the funeral. Fr. Theodore, our assistant priest, asked the presiding hierarch, Bishop George, if he had any strong objections to that being done, and he told Fr. Theodore, that if that is what was the desire, he had no objections. After the absolution prayer, the klobuk with its veil was placed over Vladika Daniel's face and he was carried out of the church and remained in that form at the cemetery until the anointing oil was poured over him and the shroud covered him. Then the lid of the coffin was placed onto the coffin.
        > Fr. Pimen Simon
        >
        > From: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com [mailto:orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of morechoff@...
        > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 2:56 PM
        > To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [orthodox-rocor] Bishop Daniels Funeral
        >
        >
        >
        > Bishop Daniel's face was not covered during the funeral. Is that an Old Believer's tradition? Normally, I see the Bishop's face covered.
        >
        > Mike Orechoff
        > CA
        >
      • Al
        ***mA little over a year ago, our rector emeritus, Archpriest Stephen Dutko, fell asleep in the Lord. His face was uncovered until just before the casket was
        Message 3 of 8 , May 3, 2010
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          ***mA little over a year ago, our rector emeritus, Archpriest Stephen Dutko, fell asleep in the Lord. His face was uncovered until just before the casket was to be closed. His son, Archpriest James Dutko, covered his dad's face with a goledn-colored cloth that looked a little like a small Aer. The casket was closed and taken to the cemetery.

          Al



          --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "sajezv" <sajezv@...> wrote:
          >
          > This makes me wonder if it was always the practice to cover the face of hierarches, clergy, monastics? Does anyone know if this was not always the case and when it became a practice? As of late, I've noticed that in non-ROCOR funerals there seems to be an increase at clergy funerals of leaving the face uncovered. As I recall even Bishop Job's (OCA) face was uncovered. Can anyone offer some insight on this practice? Thanks.
          >
          > Valeria
          >
          > --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "Simon, Steven" <ssimon@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Dear Mike,
          > > The pre-Nikonian Great Potrebnik in which we found the service for the funeral of a hierarch made no mention of covering the bishop's face. However, we knew that this is the normal practice. At first we covered his face when we brought him into the church. But then many parishioners pleaded for us to let his face be uncovered during the funeral. Fr. Theodore, our assistant priest, asked the presiding hierarch, Bishop George, if he had any strong objections to that being done, and he told Fr. Theodore, that if that is what was the desire, he had no objections. After the absolution prayer, the klobuk with its veil was placed over Vladika Daniel's face and he was carried out of the church and remained in that form at the cemetery until the anointing oil was poured over him and the shroud covered him. Then the lid of the coffin was placed onto the coffin.
          > > Fr. Pimen Simon
          > >
          > > From: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com [mailto:orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of morechoff@
          > > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 2:56 PM
          > > To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: [orthodox-rocor] Bishop Daniels Funeral
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Bishop Daniel's face was not covered during the funeral. Is that an Old Believer's tradition? Normally, I see the Bishop's face covered.
          > >
          > > Mike Orechoff
          > > CA
          > >
          >
        • subdeaconmichaelastley
          Something else that I noticed was that, at the Little Entrance, Bishop Jerome blessed with the trikiri in his left hand the dikiri in his right? Is this also
          Message 4 of 8 , May 18, 2010
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            Something else that I noticed was that, at the Little Entrance, Bishop Jerome blessed with the trikiri in his left hand the dikiri in his right? Is this also peculiar to the Old Rite? I asked in response to the Youtube video from the Eastern American diocese but my question was deleted and then comments were disabled.

            In Christ,
            Michael
          • Fr. Seraphim Wing
            Dear Subdeacon Michael, Yes, in the Old Rite the Dikiri has the first place, always in the right hand of the hierarch, and the trikiri has the second place
            Message 5 of 8 , May 19, 2010
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              Dear Subdeacon Michael,
               
              Yes, in the Old Rite the Dikiri has the 'first place,' always in the right hand of the hierarch, and the trikiri has the 'second place' in his left hand.
               
              In Christ,
              priest Seraphim Wing
               

              To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
              From: subdeaconmichael@...
              Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 19:58:56 +0000
              Subject: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Bishop Daniels Funeral

               
              Something else that I noticed was that, at the Little Entrance, Bishop Jerome blessed with the trikiri in his left hand the dikiri in his right? Is this also peculiar to the Old Rite? I asked in response to the Youtube video from the Eastern American diocese but my question was deleted and then comments were disabled.

              In Christ,
              Michael




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            • Sajez, Valeria
              OOOOO..... Another difference. I m not sure I knew that. ... From: Fr. Seraphim Wing To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com Sent:
              Message 6 of 8 , May 19, 2010
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                OOOOO..... Another difference. I'm not sure I knew that.


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Fr. Seraphim Wing" <serafimwing@...>
                To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 10:12:13 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
                Subject: RE: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Bishop Daniels Funeral






                Dear Subdeacon Michael,

                Yes, in the Old Rite the Dikiri has the 'first place,' always in the right hand of the hierarch, and the trikiri has the 'second place' in his left hand.

                In Christ,
                priest Seraphim Wing


                To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
                From: subdeaconmichael@...
                Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 19:58:56 +0000
                Subject: [orthodox-rocor] Re: Bishop Daniels Funeral




                Something else that I noticed was that, at the Little Entrance, Bishop Jerome blessed with the trikiri in his left hand the dikiri in his right? Is this also peculiar to the Old Rite? I asked in response to the Youtube video from the Eastern American diocese but my question was deleted and then comments were disabled.

                In Christ,
                Michael





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