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Re: [orthodox-rocor] Top Russian Orthodox ecumenical officer in Rome for talks

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  • Fr. Steven Ritter
    This guy seems to be living on another planet, and hasn t a clue as to the complexity of the issues or of getting all the Orthodox churches to agree to
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 16, 2009
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      This guy seems to be living on another planet, and hasn't a clue as to the complexity of the issues or of getting all the Orthodox churches to agree to something like this--what a nut!

      Al Green wrote:
      http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=4030
      
      News Briefs
      
      Top Russian Orthodox ecumenical officer in Rome for talks
      
      September 15, 2009
      
      The chief ecumenical official of the Russian Orthodox Church is visiting the Vatican this week, for talks with several ranking officials of the Holy See. Archbishop Hilarion-- who became the head of the external-affairs department for the Moscow patriarchate when his predecessor in that post, Metropolitan Kirill, was elected Patriarch-- will be hosted by Cardinal Walter Kasper, the president of the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity. He will also meet with Cardinal Leonardo Sandri, the prefect of the Congregation for Eastern Churches, to discuss relations between the Russian Orthodox Church and the Catholic churches of the Byzantine rite.
      
      
      
            
      
      
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      --

      Archpriest Steven Ritter
      St. Mary of Egypt Orthodox Church (ROCOR)
      Roswell, Ga.
      www.stmaryofegypt.org

    • Dale Dickerson
      Many RC think like him. However I simply do not see Rome changing its ways and returning the Church.   Dale Dickerson   ... From: Fr. Steven Ritter
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 16, 2009
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        Many RC think like him. However I simply do not see Rome changing its ways and returning the Church.
         
        Dale Dickerson
         
        --- On Wed, 9/16/09, Fr. Steven Ritter <frsteven@...> wrote:

        From: Fr. Steven Ritter <frsteven@...>
        Subject: Re: [orthodox-rocor] Top Russian Orthodox ecumenical officer in Rome for talks
        To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wednesday, September 16, 2009, 12:33 PM

         
        I misspoke! I was not referring to Archbishop Hilarion's trip, but rather to the following that I read at the same time:

        Spotted today in the National Catholic Register

        Is Catholic-Orthodox Unity in Sight?

        Posted by Edward Pentin

        Monday, September 14, 2009 11:10 AM


        The Catholic Archbishop of Moscow has given a remarkably upbeat assessment of relations with the Orthodox Church, saying unity between Catholics and Orthodox could be achieved “within a few months.”

        In an interview today in Italy’s Corriere della Sera newspaper, Archbishop Paolo Pezzi said the miracle of reunification “is possible, indeed it has never been so close.” The archbishop added that Catholic-Orthodox reunification, the end of the historic schism that has divided them for a millennium, and spiritual communion between the two churches “could happen soon, also within a few months.”

        “Basically we were united for a thousand years,” Archbishop Pezzi said. “Then for another thousand we were divided. Now the path to rapprochement is at its peak, and the third millennium of the Church could begin as a sign of unity.” He said there were “no formal obstacles” but that “everything depends on a real desire for communion.”

        On the part of the Catholic Church, he added, “the desire is very much alive.”

        Archbishop Pezzi, 49, whose proper title is Metropolitan Archbishop of the Mother of God Archdiocese in Moscow, said that now there are “no real obstacles” on the path towards full communion and reunification. On issues of modernity, Catholics and Orthodox Christians feel the same way, he said: “Nothing separates us on bioethics, the family, and the protection of life.”

        Also on matters of doctrine, the two churches are essentially in agreement. “There remains the question of papal primacy,” Archbishop Pezzi acknowledged, “and this will be a concern at the next meeting of the Catholic-Orthodox Commission. But to me, it doesn’t seem impossible to reach an agreement.”

        Prospects for union with the Orthodox have increased markedly in recent years with the election of Pope Benedict XVI, whose work as a theologian in greatly admired in Orthodox circles. Benedict is also without the burden of the difficult political history between Poland and Russia, which hindered Polish Pope John Paul II from making as much progress as he would have liked regarding Catholic-Orthodox unity.

        Relations have also been greatly helped by the election of Patriarch Kirill I earlier this year as leader of the Russian Orthodox Church, which is by far the largest of the national churches in the Orthodox Church. As the former head of the Moscow Patriarchate’s department for external relations, Kirill met Benedict on several occasions before and after he became Pope, and the Russian Orthodox Patriarch is well acquainted with the Roman Curia and with Catholicism.


        Fr. Steven Ritter wrote:
        This guy seems to be living on another planet, and hasn't a clue as to the complexity of the issues or of getting all the Orthodox churches to agree to something like this--what a nut!

        Al Green wrote:
        http://www.catholic culture.org/ news/headlines/ index.cfm? storyid=4030
        
        News Briefs
        
        Top Russian Orthodox ecumenical officer in Rome for talks
        
        September 15, 2009
        
        The chief ecumenical official of the Russian Orthodox Church is visiting the Vatican this week, for talks with several ranking officials of the Holy See. Archbishop Hilarion-- who became the head of the external-affairs department for the Moscow patriarchate when his predecessor in that post, Metropolitan Kirill, was elected Patriarch-- will be hosted by Cardinal Walter Kasper, the president of the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity. He will also meet with Cardinal Leonardo Sandri, the prefect of the Congregation for Eastern Churches, to discuss relations between the Russian Orthodox Church and the Catholic churches of the Byzantine rite.
        
        
        
              
        
        
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        --
        Archpriest Steven Ritter
        St. Mary of Egypt Orthodox Church (ROCOR)
        Roswell, Ga.
        www.stmaryofegypt. org

        --
        Archpriest Steven Ritter
        St. Mary of Egypt Orthodox Church (ROCOR)
        Roswell, Ga.
        www.stmaryofegypt. org

      • antiquariu@aol.com
        In a message dated 9/16/2009 3:34:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, hobbitofny@yahoo.com writes: Fr. Steven Ritter wrote: This guy seems to be living on another
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 17, 2009
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          In a message dated 9/16/2009 3:34:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, hobbitofny@... writes:
          Fr. Steven Ritter wrote:
          This guy seems to be living on another planet, and hasn't a clue as to the complexity of the issues or of getting all the Orthodox churches to agree to something like this--what a nut!
           
          Dear` Father Steven,
           
          I'm not sure what they do down there in Georgia, but in most Orthodox Churches, we pray regularly for the unity of the Church.  Communion has been established and reestablished throughout the Church's history against odds which were even tougher than the situation today.  Goodness, we've even had emperors who ordered saints' hands cut off, and saints who were saved by Islamic rulers from certain torture and death at the hands of their Most Christian sovereigns.  I'm sure that if the Church could survive the tribulations that made St John of Damascus a Saint and probably consigned the "anointed Christan Sovereign" to hell, we'll survive this as well. 
           
          The Archbishop of Moscow, as well as his Boss, the Pope, are educated and devout men.  I do not know the Archbishop of Moscow, but I have had the pleasure of listening to then-Cardinal Ratzinger while he was lecturing University students in Germany.  One thing you have to say about Roman Catholicism's long time "Guardian of Orthodoxy," because that was his job title before he became Pope, is that he's not a nut, but he is used to dealing with them. 
           
          I concur with you on that final point: The other issue is more an Orthodox problem than anything else: "getting all the Orthodox churches to agree . . ."  And that's a big problem.  At least, in Roman Catholicism, there isn't this constant jurisdiction hopping which we Orthodox in the US practice with wild abandon.  One of the advantages of a conciliar church is that these problems can be worked out, and with the often cited exception (St Mark of Ephesus), usually were and are.
           
          Praying for the unity of the Church, if not world-wide, then how about here and now,
           
          Vladimir Saemmler-Hindrichs
          Washington DC
        • |TG-Irr|Axis
          ... This seems to be the typical pattern now in politics everywhere, and it only works on the ignorant, weak-willed, or those blinded by zealotry. It has
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 17, 2009
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            > Also on matters of doctrine, the two churches are essentially in
            > agreement. "There remains the question of papal primacy," Archbishop
            > Pezzi acknowledged, "and this will be a concern at the next meeting
            > of the Catholic-Orthodox Commission. But to me, it doesn't seem
            > impossible to reach an agreement."


            This seems to be the typical pattern now in politics everywhere, and it only works on the ignorant, weak-willed, or those blinded by zealotry. It has certainly worked for both US political parties. Express the RC church's desire for unity, point out the many points of seeming agreement, the rapturous heights that will be achieved once we are all together again, but only mention offhandedly the white elephant in the room: the necessity of dissolving the conciliar structure of the Orthodox Church.

            Thus, when we piously (or self righteously, more's the pity) denounce such a notion, we appear to be the worst type of people in the modern mentality of this relativist wasteland: intractable, nitpicking luddites, full of hate and shadowy conspiracies for cosmic domination.

            This is not about true rapprochement--savvy Catholics know it, and I think we should see it too. This is about making grand overtures of fraternal (dare I say paternal) condescension and pleasant accord, knowing all the time there is no chance that the issues can be solved at a table. It's a set-up. Standing firm is no longer acceptable in the enlightened society of the new world order, unless it is standing firm against sacred Christian tradition. So you make subtle concessions to postmodern values, denounce no-brainer evils like genocide or infanticide to keep your base, and then show that you're with the times (the pope wears Prada) while making money off endorsements. (Yes, he does, on both counts).

            I believe the RC agenda is to galvanize and polarize traditional Christianity; to deepen the divide, get those in a gray area to swing to the side of "reason" and make it seem clear that this rift is really all our fault, just as it always has been.

            The antichrist must have certain conditions in place to come into his own and claim his kingdom. I don't get apocalyptic about it. Now is simply the place we happen to be, and (if I understand the nature of the angelic powers correctly) the enemy's desire to destroy the Church and ascend his throne is exactly as strong today as it was the day Christ was crucified. So anything that seems to herald as imminent a unity that can't happen any time soon is likely a vehicle for a delivering a more subtle message.

            Short version?
            Don't believe the hype, don't go off the deep end, and pray for our heirarchs. "It is later than you think."

            In Christ our Hope,

            Subdeacon Martinian
          • Meg Lark
            ... [ml] From what I recall of my own RC upbringing, and from what I see among my still-Catholic relatives, the agenda of the RCC hasn t changed at all: It s
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 17, 2009
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              On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 3:09 AM, |TG-Irr|Axis <riparianprince@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > > Also on matters of doctrine, the two churches are essentially in
              > > agreement. "There remains the question of papal primacy," Archbishop
              > > Pezzi acknowledged, "and this will be a concern at the next meeting
              > > of the Catholic-Orthodox Commission. But to me, it doesn't seem
              > > impossible to reach an agreement."
              >
              > This seems to be the typical pattern now in politics everywhere, and it only works on the ignorant, weak-willed, or those blinded by zealotry. It has certainly worked for both US political parties. Express the RC church's desire for unity, point out the many points of seeming agreement, the rapturous heights that will be achieved once we are all together again, but only mention offhandedly the white elephant in the room: the necessity of dissolving the conciliar structure of the Orthodox Church.
              >
              > Thus, when we piously (or self righteously, more's the pity) denounce such a notion, we appear to be the worst type of people in the modern mentality of this relativist wasteland: intractable, nitpicking luddites, full of hate and shadowy conspiracies for cosmic domination.
              >
              > This is not about true rapprochement--savvy Catholics know it, and I think we should see it too. This is about making grand overtures of fraternal (dare I say paternal) condescension and pleasant accord, knowing all the time there is no chance that the issues can be solved at a table. It's a set-up. Standing firm is no longer acceptable in the enlightened society of the new world order, unless it is standing firm against sacred Christian tradition. So you make subtle concessions to postmodern values, denounce no-brainer evils like genocide or infanticide to keep your base, and then show that you're with the times (the pope wears Prada) while making money off endorsements. (Yes, he does, on both counts).
              >
              > I believe the RC agenda is to galvanize and polarize traditional Christianity; to deepen the divide, get those in a gray area to swing to the side of "reason" and make it seem clear that this rift is really all our fault, just as it always has been.

              [ml] From what I recall of my own RC upbringing, and from what I see
              among my still-Catholic relatives, the agenda of the RCC hasn't
              changed at all: It's still to bring about the unity of the Churches
              *under the Pope.* That's all there is to this.

              The statement of the Archbishop, therefore, is completely accurate --
              from *his* point of view. It *is* completely possible to reach an
              agreement on the subject of the unity of the Churches. All the
              Orthodox have to do is to agree that the Pope is the universal head of
              the Church. Piece of cake.

              May St. Mark of Ephesus protect us from such folly. He did once
              before -- I have faith in his intercession now.

              In Christ,
              Meg Lark
            • lekanof_svv98118
              ... News like this seemed to be sends chills up my spine and fills me with dread. I am much relieved and heartened by what Father Steven Ritter wrote. This
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 18, 2009
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                --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. Steven Ritter" <frsteven@...> wrote:
                >
                > This guy seems to be living on another planet, and hasn't a clue as to
                > the complexity of the issues or of getting all the Orthodox churches to
                > agree to something like this--what a nut!
                > Dear Brothers and Sisters:

                News like this seemed to be sends chills up my spine and fills me with dread. I am much relieved and heartened by what Father Steven Ritter wrote. This whole issue of false negotiations with the Vatican and other Non-Orthodox is very hard for me and on me when i read about it. The intentions of the heterodox frighten me even when i know that they are ultimately unlikely to get anything like what they desire out of our renegades.


                With love in Christ,



                Vasily P. Lekanof
                > Al Green wrote:
                > > http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=4030
                > >
                > > News Briefs
                > >
                > > Top Russian Orthodox ecumenical officer in Rome for talks
                > >
                > > September 15, 2009
                > >
                > > The chief ecumenical official of the Russian Orthodox Church is visiting the Vatican this week, for talks with several ranking officials of the Holy See. Archbishop Hilarion-- who became the head of the external-affairs department for the Moscow patriarchate when his predecessor in that post, Metropolitan Kirill, was elected Patriarch-- will be hosted by Cardinal Walter Kasper, the president of the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity. He will also meet with Cardinal Leonardo Sandri, the prefect of the Congregation for Eastern Churches, to discuss relations between the Russian Orthodox Church and the Catholic churches of the Byzantine rite.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > > Posts to this list need to be signed with your full (and real) name.
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > --
                >
                > Archpriest Steven Ritter
                > St. Mary of Egypt Orthodox Church (ROCOR)
                > Roswell, Ga.
                > www.stmaryofegypt.org
                >
              • stefanvpavlenko
                No bishop, archbishop, or metropolitan of the Russian Orthodox Church would ever venture to follow the tragic steps of Metropolitan Isidore of shameful memory
                Message 7 of 10 , Sep 18, 2009
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                  No bishop, archbishop, or metropolitan of the Russian Orthodox Church would ever venture to follow the tragic steps of Metropolitan Isidore of shameful memory (circa 15th c.) and much less, the now independant of outside forces and personally quite powerful, new Patriarch of Russia; so I think all of these "ecumenical get togethers" are in fact only to get Rome to back off from their "eastern rite" and "uniate' ventures into Ukraine, Russia, and Eastern European lands!




                  --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "lekanof_svv98118" <lekanof_svv98118@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. Steven Ritter" <frsteven@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > This guy seems to be living on another planet, and hasn't a clue as to
                  > > the complexity of the issues or of getting all the Orthodox churches to
                  > > agree to something like this--what a nut!
                  > > Dear Brothers and Sisters:
                  >
                  > News like this seemed to be sends chills up my spine and fills me with dread. I am much relieved and heartened by what Father Steven Ritter wrote. This whole issue of false negotiations with the Vatican and other Non-Orthodox is very hard for me and on me when i read about it. The intentions of the heterodox frighten me even when i know that they are ultimately unlikely to get anything like what they desire out of our renegades.
                  >
                  >
                  > With love in Christ,
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Vasily P. Lekanof
                  > > Al Green wrote:
                  > > > http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=4030
                  > > >
                  > > > News Briefs
                  > > >
                  > > > Top Russian Orthodox ecumenical officer in Rome for talks
                  > > >
                  > > > September 15, 2009
                  > > >
                  > > > The chief ecumenical official of the Russian Orthodox Church is visiting the Vatican this week, for talks with several ranking officials of the Holy See. Archbishop Hilarion-- who became the head of the external-affairs department for the Moscow patriarchate when his predecessor in that post, Metropolitan Kirill, was elected Patriarch-- will be hosted by Cardinal Walter Kasper, the president of the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity. He will also meet with Cardinal Leonardo Sandri, the prefect of the Congregation for Eastern Churches, to discuss relations between the Russian Orthodox Church and the Catholic churches of the Byzantine rite.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ------------------------------------
                  > > >
                  > > > Posts to this list need to be signed with your full (and real) name.
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > >
                  > > Archpriest Steven Ritter
                  > > St. Mary of Egypt Orthodox Church (ROCOR)
                  > > Roswell, Ga.
                  > > www.stmaryofegypt.org
                  > >
                  >
                • Fr Tryphon
                  I could not agree with you more, dear Father Stefan. You are absolutely correct. I came out of the Eastern Catholic Church , and it was no picnic. Many of us
                  Message 8 of 10 , Sep 19, 2009
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                    I could not agree with you more, dear Father Stefan. You are absolutely correct. I came out of the "Eastern Catholic Church", and it was no picnic. Many of us hungered for freedom from Papal domination, and the second class citizenship that came with being a minority rite within the Roman Church. Many eventually leave for Orthodoxy, as did I, and know full well the need for a strong Russian Patriarch to stand firm against papal claims, and the uniate problem. His Holiness Kirill is just the right bishop, in just the right time, to keep Holy Orthodoxy from another false union. I am extremely confident God has given our Church the strong leadership we so need, in these troubled times.
                    Abbot Tryphon

                    On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 5:35 PM, stefanvpavlenko <StefanVPavlenko@...> wrote:
                     

                    No bishop, archbishop, or metropolitan of the Russian Orthodox Church would ever venture to follow the tragic steps of Metropolitan Isidore of shameful memory (circa 15th c.) and much less, the now independant of outside forces and personally quite powerful, new Patriarch of Russia; so I think all of these "ecumenical get togethers" are in fact only to get Rome to back off from their "eastern rite" and "uniate' ventures into Ukraine, Russia, and Eastern European lands!


                    --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "lekanof_svv98118" <lekanof_svv98118@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. Steven Ritter" <frsteven@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > This guy seems to be living on another planet, and hasn't a clue as to
                    > > the complexity of the issues or of getting all the Orthodox churches to
                    > > agree to something like this--what a nut!
                    > > Dear Brothers and Sisters:
                    >
                    > News like this seemed to be sends chills up my spine and fills me with dread. I am much relieved and heartened by what Father Steven Ritter wrote. This whole issue of false negotiations with the Vatican and other Non-Orthodox is very hard for me and on me when i read about it. The intentions of the heterodox frighten me even when i know that they are ultimately unlikely to get anything like what they desire out of our renegades.
                    >
                    >
                    > With love in Christ,
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Vasily P. Lekanof
                    > > Al Green wrote:
                    > > > http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=4030
                    > > >
                    > > > News Briefs
                    > > >
                    > > > Top Russian Orthodox ecumenical officer in Rome for talks
                    > > >
                    > > > September 15, 2009
                    > > >
                    > > > The chief ecumenical official of the Russian Orthodox Church is visiting the Vatican this week, for talks with several ranking officials of the Holy See. Archbishop Hilarion-- who became the head of the external-affairs department for the Moscow patriarchate when his predecessor in that post, Metropolitan Kirill, was elected Patriarch-- will be hosted by Cardinal Walter Kasper, the president of the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity. He will also meet with Cardinal Leonardo Sandri, the prefect of the Congregation for Eastern Churches, to discuss relations between the Russian Orthodox Church and the Catholic churches of the Byzantine rite.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ------------------------------------
                    > > >
                    > > > Posts to this list need to be signed with your full (and real) name.
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > >
                    > > Archpriest Steven Ritter
                    > > St. Mary of Egypt Orthodox Church (ROCOR)
                    > > Roswell, Ga.
                    > > www.stmaryofegypt.org
                    > >
                    >


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