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Re: OCA?

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  • Aleksandr Andreev
    Archimandrite Joasaph writes: In the narrow sense that the OCA is fully self-governing, everyone, including the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, agrees
    Message 1 of 16 , May 1, 2009
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      Archimandrite Joasaph writes:

      "In the narrow sense that the OCA is fully self-governing, everyone, including the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, agrees that it is "autocephalous." ... But no one ... makes the claim that any Orthodox in the North American dioceses that do not belong to the OCA is obliged to submit administratively to the OCA or to commemorate its First Hierarch at the divine services."

      I find such an argument coming from Moscow to be a bit odd, not at the least because autocephaly defined as complete self-government without exclusivity over a canonical territory sounds to me like a canonical novelty, if not a canonical oxymoron.

      Imagine, for a second, if Antioch were to grant autocephaly to its archdiocese in North America. Then by this reasoning we could have two autocephalous churches with the same canonical territory.

      Moreover, such an argument could be easily used against the Russian Church by e.g. Constantinople in Estonia or the Romanians in Moldova. After all, as far as the canons go, Estonia could be construed no less a diaspora than North America, given that the canonical boundaries of the Russian Church are not well defined and, historically, have more or less coincided with the political boundaries of the Russian State.

      Aleks
    • Fr. John Whiteford
      But of course the circumstances in which autocephaly was granted to the OCA were unusual too.  Fr. John Whiteford St. Jonah Orthodox Church Parish Home Page:
      Message 2 of 16 , May 1, 2009
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        But of course the circumstances in which autocephaly was granted to the OCA were unusual too. 

        Fr. John Whiteford
        St. Jonah Orthodox Church
        Parish Home Page: http://www.saintjonah.org/
        ROCOR Discussion Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-rocor/
        Parish News: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjonah/
        Blog: http://fatherjohn.blogspot.com/

        --- On Fri, 5/1/09, Aleksandr Andreev <aleksandr.andreev@...> wrote:
        From: Aleksandr Andreev <aleksandr.andreev@...>
        Subject: [orthodox-rocor] Re: OCA?
        To: orthodox-rocor@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 2:27 AM

        Archimandrite Joasaph writes: 
        
        "In the narrow sense that the OCA is fully self-governing, everyone,
        including the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, agrees that it is
        "autocephalous." ...  But no one ... makes the claim that any Orthodox
        in the North American dioceses that do not belong to the OCA is obliged to
        submit administratively to the OCA or to commemorate its First Hierarch at the
        divine services."
        
        I find such an argument coming from Moscow to be a bit odd, not at the least
        because autocephaly defined as complete self-government without exclusivity over
        a canonical territory sounds to me like a canonical novelty, if not a canonical
        oxymoron.
        
        Imagine, for a second, if Antioch were to grant autocephaly to its archdiocese
        in North America. Then by this reasoning we could have two autocephalous
        churches with the same canonical territory.
        
        Moreover, such an argument could be easily used against the Russian Church by
        e.g. Constantinople in Estonia or the Romanians in Moldova. After all, as far as
        the canons go, Estonia could be construed no less a diaspora than North America,
        given that the canonical boundaries of the Russian Church are not well defined
        and, historically, have more or less coincided with the political boundaries of
        the Russian State.
        
        Aleks
        
        
        
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