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New Epistle Lectionary

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  • Fr. John Whiteford
    The Center for Traditionalist Orthodox Studies has published a new Epistle Book (aka Apostolos, or Apostol). It uses the King James text, which I prefer. The
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 11, 2005
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      The Center for Traditionalist Orthodox Studies has
      published a new Epistle Book (aka Apostolos, or
      Apostol). It uses the King James text, which I prefer.
      The text it uses for the prokimena and alleluia verses
      is their own translation. It is layed out in the Greek
      Style. The Slavic Apostol has all the books from Acts
      through Jude, with the complete texts, and with notes
      that tell you how and where to begin and where to end
      each reading. The Greek style has the readings in the
      order they are used in the liturgical year, with text
      exactly as it would be read in Church, which
      eliminates the need for all of those notes. The
      problem for those who follow Slavic practice is that
      these readings do not always precisely match where the
      Slavic readings begin and end.

      The biggest draw back is that this is published only
      in paper back, at present... which means the text will
      not last long under heavy use. However, this also
      makes the text much more inexpensive than it would
      otherwise be. It is only $25.00, which makes it
      practical for individuals to purchase it for their own
      use.

      http://www.monasteryproducts.org/product_info.php?products_id=1824

      Or http://tinyurl.com/b84rw

      Fr. John Whiteford
      St. Jonah Orthodox Church
      Parish Home Page: http://www.saintjonah.org/
      ROCOR Discussion Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-rocor/
      Parish News: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjonah/
      Blog: http://fatherjohn.blogspot.com/
    • George Gapen
      Glory to Jesus Chirst now and forever! amen. Your blessing. Dear Father, Thank you for your kind and prompt reply which I discovered this morning. I have taken
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 23, 2005
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        Glory to Jesus Chirst now and forever! amen.
        Your blessing.

        Dear Father,
        Thank you for your kind and prompt reply which I discovered this morning.

        I have taken the liberty of printing a copy of "Matins: For Sundays and Feasts As a Reader Service When a Vigil is not served."

        That I will probably not be called upon to lead such a service does not lessen my appreciation.
        Yours in Jesus Chirst: the Builder, the Head and the Saviour of the Church, George






        "Fr. John Whiteford" <frjohnwhiteford@...> wrote:
        The Center for Traditionalist Orthodox Studies has
        published a new Epistle Book (aka Apostolos, or
        Apostol). It uses the King James text, which I prefer.
        The text it uses for the prokimena and alleluia verses
        is their own translation. It is layed out in the Greek
        Style. The Slavic Apostol has all the books from Acts
        through Jude, with the complete texts, and with notes
        that tell you how and where to begin and where to end
        each reading. The Greek style has the readings in the
        order they are used in the liturgical year, with text
        exactly as it would be read in Church, which
        eliminates the need for all of those notes. The
        problem for those who follow Slavic practice is that
        these readings do not always precisely match where the
        Slavic readings begin and end.

        The biggest draw back is that this is published only
        in paper back, at present... which means the text will
        not last long under heavy use. However, this also
        makes the text much more inexpensive than it would
        otherwise be. It is only $25.00, which makes it
        practical for individuals to purchase it for their own
        use.

        http://www.monasteryproducts.org/product_info.php?products_id=1824

        Or http://tinyurl.com/b84rw

        Fr. John Whiteford
        St. Jonah Orthodox Church
        Parish Home Page: http://www.saintjonah.org/
        ROCOR Discussion Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-rocor/
        Parish News: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjonah/
        Blog: http://fatherjohn.blogspot.com/


        To learn more about reader services, see:
        http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm

        To access this lists archives, go to:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
        ogion.htm

        To access this lists archives, go to:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers




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      • natwoon
        Dear Fr. John, Would you recommedn a small mission to get a copy of the above? We are under the parish in S pore which is under the EP. Or are there other
        Message 3 of 10 , Jun 9, 2008
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          Dear Fr. John,

          Would you recommedn a small mission to get a copy of the above? We are
          under the parish in S'pore which is under the EP. Or are there other
          Apostles/Gospels in the traditional religious English dialect that we
          can obtain?

          Nathaniel in Malaysia
        • Fr. John Whiteford
          The CTOS Gospel and Epistle has some quirks you will run across. If you are familiar with the King James, you will be more likely to notice them. If you are
          Message 4 of 10 , Jun 9, 2008
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            The CTOS Gospel and Epistle has some quirks you will run across. If you are familiar with the King James, you will be more likely to notice them. If you are not, you would only notice some of the more obvious one... however, they are inexpensive (relatively), and are available.

            I prefer the Holoviak Gospel, and the St. Tikhon Apostol, but at the moment, neither is as easy to get. The Holoviak Gospel can only be purchased with a Gospel Cover, which makes it pricey. The St. Tikhon's Apostol may still be available in simple hardback from some sources.

            St. Tikhon's is working on a revised Apostol, and having seen the working drafts, it will be much better traditional English. They also plan eventually to produce a Gospel Book, which will probably be a better option than CTOS or Holoviak's when it is done.

            See also: http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/library.htm

            -Fr. John Whiteford

            natwoon <natwoon@...> wrote: Dear Fr. John,

            Would you recommedn a small mission to get a copy of the above? We are
            under the parish in S'pore which is under the EP. Or are there other
            Apostles/Gospels in the traditional religious English dialect that we
            can obtain?

            Nathaniel in Malaysia


            ------------------------------------

            To learn more about reader services, see:
            http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm

            To access this lists archives, go to:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
            ogion.htm

            To access this lists archives, go to:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
            Yahoo! Groups Links






            Fr. John Whiteford
            St. Jonah Orthodox Church
            Parish Home Page: http://www.saintjonah.org/
            ROCOR Discussion Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-rocor/
            Parish News: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjonah/
            Blog: http://fatherjohn.blogspot.com/

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Philip Sokolov
            ... Just to back this up, I had good success just calling up brick-and-mortar Orthodox Bookstores across the country--stores with a physical presence but not a
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 9, 2008
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              Fr. John Whiteford wrote:

              > I prefer the Holoviak Gospel, and the St. Tikhon Apostol, but at the
              > moment, neither is as easy to get. The Holoviak Gospel can only be
              > purchased with a Gospel Cover, which makes it pricey. The St. Tikhon's
              > Apostol may still be available in simple hardback from some sources.

              Just to back this up, I had good success just calling up brick-and-mortar
              Orthodox Bookstores across the country--stores with a physical presence but
              not a web presence--and asking them to ship the STS Press Apostol to me
              (USPS media mail rate--usually cheaper than the sales tax would be if you
              bought it in your own state!). The Apostol is very good and very useful.

              I emailed Holoviak's about their Old King James Gospel, and it is indeed
              true that they are not willing to do a leatherette binding of any of their
              original stock, but only metallic (ornate). Eventually, a parish will want
              an ornate Gospel, to be true, but it's too bad for us missions... I'm not
              certain, but I would guess the ornate Gospels are in the neighborhood of
              $800+, and probably mostly at least $1,000. They have not yet responded to
              my second query regarding which covers exactly they have available for the
              Old King James Gospel, and how much they cost. They probably got the
              impression from my original email that I couldn't afford it anyway. Oh well...

              > The CTOS Gospel and Epistle has some quirks you will run across. If you
              > are familiar with the King James, you will be more likely to notice them.
              > If you are not, you would only notice some of the more obvious one...
              > however, they are inexpensive (relatively), and are available.

              So I guess my question is whether your impression of these is built solely
              on having seen the CTOS Epistle, or whether you now have actual experience
              with the CTOS Gospel? Because I have been seriously considering getting the
              CTOS Gospel which, at $59.95, seems comparatively quite reasonable! Just how
              "quirky" is the text, and how different is the Slavic lectionary from the
              Greek when it comes to the Gospel?

              > St. Tikhon's is working on a revised Apostol, and having seen the working
              > drafts, it will be much better traditional English. They also plan
              > eventually to produce a Gospel Book, which will probably be a better
              > option than CTOS or Holoviak's when it is done.

              Exciting news!

              Regards.
              --

              Rdr. Philip Sokolov
            • Fr. John Whiteford
              I use the CTOS Apostle at home regularly, because we try to do the daily readings, and this made it much easier than looking it up in a regular bible, and also
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 9, 2008
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                I use the CTOS Apostle at home regularly, because we try to do the daily readings, and this made it much easier than looking it up in a regular bible, and also was a lot cheaper than any alternatives ($25 is hard to beat). I mention some of it's quirks in the link I posted. Our parish has a copy of the CTOS Gospel, which I got to have a Gospel book to place on the Epitaphios on Holy Saturday. I don't use that one regularly, but I have seen some of the same kind of quirks... using Greeky forms instead of the more common forms of names of persons and places, and the occasional "improvement" of the the KJV text. There are a few places where I think they have genuinely improved the text, but for example, they have Christ saying to the Virgin Mary from the Cross something like "Dear lady, behold thy son" instead of the more familiar and more accurate "Woman, behold thy son." They are trying to emphasize that Christ was not being disrepectful to his mother, but that is the
                kind of thing that belongs in a footnote or in a commentary. The Greek text simply says "Woman".

                The are some very minor differences between the Slavic lectionary, but their index makes it very easy to find the reading you are looking for, and so I would encourage a mission with a small budget to buy it, and then when they can get a better option, they can use it as a second Gospel book, on those occasions when that comes in handy.

                -Fr. John Whiteford

                Philip Sokolov <sokolov@...> wrote: Fr. John Whiteford wrote:

                > I prefer the Holoviak Gospel, and the St. Tikhon Apostol, but at the
                > moment, neither is as easy to get. The Holoviak Gospel can only be
                > purchased with a Gospel Cover, which makes it pricey. The St. Tikhon's
                > Apostol may still be available in simple hardback from some sources.

                Just to back this up, I had good success just calling up brick-and-mortar
                Orthodox Bookstores across the country--stores with a physical presence but
                not a web presence--and asking them to ship the STS Press Apostol to me
                (USPS media mail rate--usually cheaper than the sales tax would be if you
                bought it in your own state!). The Apostol is very good and very useful.

                I emailed Holoviak's about their Old King James Gospel, and it is indeed
                true that they are not willing to do a leatherette binding of any of their
                original stock, but only metallic (ornate). Eventually, a parish will want
                an ornate Gospel, to be true, but it's too bad for us missions... I'm not
                certain, but I would guess the ornate Gospels are in the neighborhood of
                $800+, and probably mostly at least $1,000. They have not yet responded to
                my second query regarding which covers exactly they have available for the
                Old King James Gospel, and how much they cost. They probably got the
                impression from my original email that I couldn't afford it anyway. Oh well...

                > The CTOS Gospel and Epistle has some quirks you will run across. If you
                > are familiar with the King James, you will be more likely to notice them.
                > If you are not, you would only notice some of the more obvious one...
                > however, they are inexpensive (relatively), and are available.

                So I guess my question is whether your impression of these is built solely
                on having seen the CTOS Epistle, or whether you now have actual experience
                with the CTOS Gospel? Because I have been seriously considering getting the
                CTOS Gospel which, at $59.95, seems comparatively quite reasonable! Just how
                "quirky" is the text, and how different is the Slavic lectionary from the
                Greek when it comes to the Gospel?

                > St. Tikhon's is working on a revised Apostol, and having seen the working
                > drafts, it will be much better traditional English. They also plan
                > eventually to produce a Gospel Book, which will probably be a better
                > option than CTOS or Holoviak's when it is done.

                Exciting news!

                Regards.
                --

                Rdr. Philip Sokolov

                ------------------------------------

                To learn more about reader services, see:
                http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm

                To access this lists archives, go to:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                ogion.htm

                To access this lists archives, go to:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                Yahoo! Groups Links






                Fr. John Whiteford
                St. Jonah Orthodox Church
                Parish Home Page: http://www.saintjonah.org/
                ROCOR Discussion Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-rocor/
                Parish News: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjonah/
                Blog: http://fatherjohn.blogspot.com/

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • natwoon
                Dear Fr. John, Father bless! We really are a small mission - only 4 adults with occasional inquirers. I guess the best thing to do is to get the CTOS Epistle
                Message 7 of 10 , Jun 10, 2008
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                  Dear Fr. John,

                  Father bless!

                  We really are a small mission - only 4 adults with occasional
                  inquirers. I guess the best thing to do is to get the CTOS Epistle and
                  Gospel for now - and worry about better options later on...

                  On another note,I have just received the CTOS Psalter and have so far
                  found it much easier to use and chant than the HTM one. But then it is
                  based on the KJV ( though revised according to the LXX)and is thus more
                  familiar to those of us who have spent years with the KJV.

                  Kissing your right hand,

                  Nathaniel
                • Philip Sokolov
                  ... There is a free download similar to what you describe available from the OCA Diocese of the South: http://www.dosoca.org/psalter.html --Rdr. Philip Sokolov
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jun 10, 2008
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                    Nathaniel wrote:

                    > On another note,I have just received the CTOS Psalter and have so far
                    > found it much easier to use and chant than the HTM one. But then it is
                    > based on the KJV ( though revised according to the LXX)and is thus more
                    > familiar to those of us who have spent years with the KJV.

                    There is a free download similar to what you describe available from the OCA
                    Diocese of the South: http://www.dosoca.org/psalter.html

                    --Rdr. Philip Sokolov
                  • natwoon
                    Hi Philip, This Psalter is the basically the same one but I think some changes have been made by CTOS. At least that s what it sort of says on the back of the
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jun 11, 2008
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                      Hi Philip,

                      This Psalter is the basically the same one but I think some changes
                      have been made by CTOS. At least that's what it sort of says on the
                      back of the cover page - the work was originally done by Michael Asser.
                      I first saw the Psalter on the Orthodox England site.

                      U can view some of it here - http://www.ctosonline.org/sample/PK.pdf

                      All I can say is that I find it remarkably easy to use this one for
                      chanting. I have tried using the HTM version - and I dont have the one
                      that is published by HTM - I have one put together by the Protection
                      of the Motehre of God Parish in NY which uses the HTM text and comes
                      with the kathisma prayers done by Reader Isaac Lambertsen. I believe
                      this from the Russian tradition) - and truly wonderful and very helpful
                      material indeed.

                      Nathaniel
                    • sustain_ability@123mail.org
                      Thanks, Philip. I alerted all present and potential readers. This is a great way to generate interest and, I hope, volunteers. Rdr. George/Yuri On Tue, 10 Jun
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jun 11, 2008
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                        Thanks, Philip. I alerted all present and potential readers. This is a
                        great way to generate interest and, I hope, volunteers.
                        Rdr. George/Yuri



                        On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 20:59:15 -0500, "Philip Sokolov"
                        <sokolov@...> said:
                        ...
                        > There is a free download similar to what you describe available from the
                        > OCA
                        > Diocese of the South: http://www.dosoca.org/psalter.html
                        >
                        > --Rdr. Philip Sokolov

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