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Re: Readers and the Orarion

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  • Stephen Parsons
    ... Andrew! Glad to see you still around. Thanks (and to Rdr Slava) on the Slavonic term. Yeah, I was guessing that that was a likely possibility (by analogy
    Message 1 of 17 , Apr 14, 2005
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      --- In orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, andrew@c... wrote:
      > Stephen Parsons wrote:
      >
      > "Orar" is the term I've heard some Slavs use around St. Tikhon's.

      Andrew! Glad to 'see' you still around. Thanks (and to Rdr Slava) on
      the Slavonic term. Yeah, I was guessing that that was a likely
      possibility (by analogy with troparion -> tropar, kontakion -> kondak,
      not to mention Demetrios -> Dmitri, etc., etc.). I hadn't actually
      heard it used though, so I didn't want to guess out loud. :-)

      -- Stephen in NC (rdr Joseph)
    • daxaphon
      This has always been an interesting question to me as well, since I was tonsured in the GOA, but not until I was 19, when I wasn t even serving in the altar or
      Message 2 of 17 , Apr 20, 2005
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        This has always been an interesting question to me as well, since I
        was tonsured in the GOA, but not until I was 19, when I wasn't even
        serving in the altar or reading anymore. All altar servers wore the
        orarion, but not crossed like a subdeacon. This was very confusing
        to me because 4 years ago, when I came to the OCA and was going to
        be ordained a subdeacon, I wasn't really sure if I had been already
        or not because the bishop gave me an orarion at my tonsuring, but
        there was no reading of the epistle like at a Russian style
        tonsuring. All is well now though, but I would like to understand
        the history of the Greek practice of orarion wearing, if anyone
        knows anything about it.
        Subdeacon Anthony




        --- In orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, "Justin" <jm_griffing@y...>
        wrote:
        >
        >
        > Glory to Jesus Christ!
        >
        > I have asked a few persons this question and have received
        different
        > answers, all of which made sense.
        >
        > In Russian tradition, a reader can be blessed to wear the orarion
        and
        > serve as a sub-deacon.
        >
        > In Greek tradition, a reader is vested in the orarion as part of
        the
        > tonsuring service (at least in the Greek Archdiocese in America).
        > Since the only time there is the ordination of a sub-deacon in
        > Archdiocesan practice is right before he's ordained a deacon, the
        > functions of sub-deacons are usually performed by readers
        anyways.
        >
        > Are these practices equivalent? When serving in a parish of a
        > Russian tradition (i.e. the OCA), should such a reader wear the
        > orarion (provided of course he has cleared such with the
        celebrating
        > priest or bishop.)?
        >
        > I'm just curious to get people's thoughts on this.
        >
        > In Christ,
        > Rdr. Justin
      • John Patterson
        Sbdn Anthony, I could be wrong, but I think it is because in the greek tradition there aren t really any subdeacons and so the altar boys appropriated the
        Message 3 of 17 , Apr 20, 2005
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          Sbdn Anthony,

          I could be wrong, but I think it is because in the greek tradition
          there aren't really any subdeacons and so the altar boys appropriated
          the orarion for use with the stikharion. Like I said, I could be
          worng and I would like to know why as well.

          Sbdn. John

          --- In orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, "daxaphon" <daxaphon@y...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > This has always been an interesting question to me as well, since I
          > was tonsured in the GOA, but not until I was 19, when I wasn't even
          > serving in the altar or reading anymore. All altar servers wore the
          > orarion, but not crossed like a subdeacon. This was very confusing
          > to me because 4 years ago, when I came to the OCA and was going to
          > be ordained a subdeacon, I wasn't really sure if I had been already
          > or not because the bishop gave me an orarion at my tonsuring, but
          > there was no reading of the epistle like at a Russian style
          > tonsuring. All is well now though, but I would like to understand
          > the history of the Greek practice of orarion wearing, if anyone
          > knows anything about it.
          > Subdeacon Anthony
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, "Justin" <jm_griffing@y...>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Glory to Jesus Christ!
          > >
          > > I have asked a few persons this question and have received
          > different
          > > answers, all of which made sense.
          > >
          > > In Russian tradition, a reader can be blessed to wear the orarion
          > and
          > > serve as a sub-deacon.
          > >
          > > In Greek tradition, a reader is vested in the orarion as part of
          > the
          > > tonsuring service (at least in the Greek Archdiocese in America).
          > > Since the only time there is the ordination of a sub-deacon in
          > > Archdiocesan practice is right before he's ordained a deacon, the
          > > functions of sub-deacons are usually performed by readers
          > anyways.
          > >
          > > Are these practices equivalent? When serving in a parish of a
          > > Russian tradition (i.e. the OCA), should such a reader wear the
          > > orarion (provided of course he has cleared such with the
          > celebrating
          > > priest or bishop.)?
          > >
          > > I'm just curious to get people's thoughts on this.
          > >
          > > In Christ,
          > > Rdr. Justin
        • polychrony
          One would think that there would be a substantially greater supply of married men to select from, than unmarried ones (typically limited to the age group of
          Message 4 of 17 , Apr 25, 2005
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            One would think that there would be a substantially greater supply of
            married men to select from, than unmarried ones (typically limited to
            the age group of 18-30; while the married would be from ca. 21-65),
            and even in the 25-30, the married may out-number the unmarried. Yes?

            Polychronios

            n orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John Whiteford"
            <frjohnwhiteford@y...> wrote:
            >
            > There are many readers in ROCOR with a blessing to wear the crossed
            > orarion. This is done because bishops do not want to tonsure someone
            > a subdeacon who is not married, but they need people who can serve
            > the role that subdeacons serve during hierarchical services.
            >
            > -Fr. John
            >
            > --- In orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, <nmmihalik@e...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Dear List Members,
            > >
            > > FWIW, in the ROCOR, this really isn't a big issue. I have never
            > heard the term "blessed subdeacon" until embarking on this thread.
            > We obviously have acolytes, readers, and subdeacons. The subdeacon
            > wears the orarion as required by his rank. A reader or acolyte may
            > receive a blessing to wear an orarion as an award for good and
            > faithful service to the Church. A reader or acolyte, with or without
            > an orarion, may act in the capacity of a subdeacon, but would never
            > call himself a "blessed subdeacon". So essentially, one doesn't know
            > if a "server" clad like a subdeacon is a bona fide subdeacon unless
            > he is observed moving articles on the Holy Table or notice is taken
            > of how he is vested for communion. By convention in the ROCOR,
            > readers and subdeacons must receive communion vested at their proper
            > rank. Thus, subdeacons receive communion still clad in stikharion
            > and orarion. Readers who are blessed to wear an orarion, must shed
            > the orarion for communion and receive in stikharion only. Acolytes
            > blessed to wear an orarion must shed the orarion, as well as
            > stikharion, and receive in street clothes.
            > >
            > > To the best of my knowledge, the canon concerning marriage and
            > ordination as a subdeacon is alive and well. The unmarried reader
            > seeking elevation to the subdiaconate must use caution.
            > >
            > > I hope I haven't clouded the issue any further. I wish all (with
            > or without orarion) a rewarding remainder of Great Lent as we
            > approach our Saviour's Passion and Resurrection.
            > >
            > > Sincerely,
            > >
            > > Nicholas Mihalik
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Fr. John Whiteford
            There is the question of being both willing and able, though. ... http://us.click.yahoo.com/UwRTUD/UOnJAA/i1hLAA/m.VolB/TM ...
            Message 5 of 17 , Apr 26, 2005
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              There is the question of being both willing and able,
              though.

              --- polychrony <Polychrony@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > One would think that there would be a substantially
              > greater supply of
              > married men to select from, than unmarried ones
              > (typically limited to
              > the age group of 18-30; while the married would be
              > from ca. 21-65),
              > and even in the 25-30, the married may out-number
              > the unmarried. Yes?
              >
              > Polychronios
              >
              > n orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John
              > Whiteford"
              > <frjohnwhiteford@y...> wrote:
              > >
              > > There are many readers in ROCOR with a blessing to
              > wear the crossed
              > > orarion. This is done because bishops do not want
              > to tonsure someone
              > > a subdeacon who is not married, but they need
              > people who can serve
              > > the role that subdeacons serve during hierarchical
              > services.
              > >
              > > -Fr. John
              > >
              > > --- In orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com,
              > <nmmihalik@e...> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Dear List Members,
              > > >
              > > > FWIW, in the ROCOR, this really isn't a big
              > issue. I have never
              > > heard the term "blessed subdeacon" until embarking
              > on this thread.
              > > We obviously have acolytes, readers, and
              > subdeacons. The subdeacon
              > > wears the orarion as required by his rank. A
              > reader or acolyte may
              > > receive a blessing to wear an orarion as an award
              > for good and
              > > faithful service to the Church. A reader or
              > acolyte, with or without
              > > an orarion, may act in the capacity of a
              > subdeacon, but would never
              > > call himself a "blessed subdeacon". So
              > essentially, one doesn't know
              > > if a "server" clad like a subdeacon is a bona fide
              > subdeacon unless
              > > he is observed moving articles on the Holy Table
              > or notice is taken
              > > of how he is vested for communion. By convention
              > in the ROCOR,
              > > readers and subdeacons must receive communion
              > vested at their proper
              > > rank. Thus, subdeacons receive communion still
              > clad in stikharion
              > > and orarion. Readers who are blessed to wear an
              > orarion, must shed
              > > the orarion for communion and receive in
              > stikharion only. Acolytes
              > > blessed to wear an orarion must shed the orarion,
              > as well as
              > > stikharion, and receive in street clothes.
              > > >
              > > > To the best of my knowledge, the canon
              > concerning marriage and
              > > ordination as a subdeacon is alive and well. The
              > unmarried reader
              > > seeking elevation to the subdiaconate must use
              > caution.
              > > >
              > > > I hope I haven't clouded the issue any further.
              > I wish all (with
              > > or without orarion) a rewarding remainder of Great
              > Lent as we
              > > approach our Saviour's Passion and Resurrection.
              > > >
              > > > Sincerely,
              > > >
              > > > Nicholas Mihalik
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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              Fr. John Whiteford
              St. Jonah Orthodox Church
              Parish Home Page: http://www.saintjonah.org/
              ROCOR Discussion Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-rocor/
              Parish News: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/saintjonah/
              Blog: http://fatherjohn.blogspot.com/
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