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Readers and the Orarion

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  • Justin
    Glory to Jesus Christ! I have asked a few persons this question and have received different answers, all of which made sense. In Russian tradition, a reader
    Message 1 of 17 , Apr 12, 2005
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      Glory to Jesus Christ!

      I have asked a few persons this question and have received different
      answers, all of which made sense.

      In Russian tradition, a reader can be blessed to wear the orarion and
      serve as a sub-deacon.

      In Greek tradition, a reader is vested in the orarion as part of the
      tonsuring service (at least in the Greek Archdiocese in America).
      Since the only time there is the ordination of a sub-deacon in
      Archdiocesan practice is right before he's ordained a deacon, the
      functions of sub-deacons are usually performed by readers anyways.

      Are these practices equivalent? When serving in a parish of a
      Russian tradition (i.e. the OCA), should such a reader wear the
      orarion (provided of course he has cleared such with the celebrating
      priest or bishop.)?

      I'm just curious to get people's thoughts on this.

      In Christ,
      Rdr. Justin
    • Stephen Parsons
      ... celebrating ... This was just mentioned over on [orthodox-convert], as it happens. My understanding from there is that (in the Russian tradition) a reader
      Message 2 of 17 , Apr 12, 2005
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        --- In orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, "Justin" <jm_griffing@y...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Are these practices equivalent? When serving in a parish of a
        > Russian tradition (i.e. the OCA), should such a reader wear the
        > orarion (provided of course he has cleared such with the
        celebrating
        > priest or bishop.)?


        This was just mentioned over on [orthodox-convert], as it happens. My
        understanding from there is that (in the Russian tradition) a reader
        blessed to wear the orarion would do so only when functioning as a
        subdeacon, such as when attending to the bishop. Otherwise, such as
        when approaching for Communion, he would not wear it since he is not
        in fact a subdeacon. So my guess is that one wearing the orarion in a
        Greek parish should inform the priest/bishop of such when serving in a
        Russian parish, but should not assume he would wear it just because
        he's a reader. But that's just my guess. Whatever the presiding
        priest/bishop says is the real answer. :-)

        -- Stephen in NC (rdr Joseph)
      • James Morgan
        Dear Justin: I am obviously neither deacon, subdeacon nor bishop, but the only time I as a tonsured reader would wear an orarion, was when the presiding clergy
        Message 3 of 17 , Apr 12, 2005
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          Dear Justin:

          I am obviously neither deacon, subdeacon nor bishop, but the only time I as
          a tonsured reader would wear an orarion, was when the presiding clergy
          handed me one and told me to put it on. It's hard enough to get me into a
          sticharion...especially one that does not have holes in the sides so one can
          get to his hanky...
          I have seen readers without sticharia vest the bishop, when there was no
          subdeacon on board. Of course they did it slower...
          Rdr. James
          Olympia, WA

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Justin [mailto:jm_griffing@...]
          Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 4:24 PM
          To: orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [orthodox-readers] Readers and the Orarion

          Glory to Jesus Christ!

          I have asked a few persons this question and have received different
          answers, all of which made sense.

          In Russian tradition, a reader can be blessed to wear the orarion and
          serve as a sub-deacon.

          In Greek tradition, a reader is vested in the orarion as part of the
          tonsuring service (at least in the Greek Archdiocese in America).
          Since the only time there is the ordination of a sub-deacon in
          Archdiocesan practice is right before he's ordained a deacon, the
          functions of sub-deacons are usually performed by readers anyways.

          Are these practices equivalent? When serving in a parish of a
          Russian tradition (i.e. the OCA), should such a reader wear the
          orarion (provided of course he has cleared such with the celebrating
          priest or bishop.)?

          I'm just curious to get people's thoughts on this.

          In Christ,
          Rdr. Justin
        • Alex Vallens
          Glory forever! I cannot speak for the Greek practice, but I will say that in the Russian practice, YMMV. It seems as if most bishops would allow readers, even
          Message 4 of 17 , Apr 12, 2005
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            Glory forever!

            I cannot speak for the Greek practice, but I will say that in the
            Russian practice, YMMV.

            It seems as if most bishops would allow readers, even acolytes, who
            serve as subdeacons, to wear an orarion. At St. Tikhon's, Metropolitan
            Herman has a subdeacon crew in which most servers begin without an
            orarion, but after enough practice are given the blessing to wear one
            (I haven't paid attention to whether they remove their oraria for
            Communion or not, although I recall blessed subdeacons at St.
            Vladimir's thinking it rather odd to remove it). Since they also often
            travel with His Beatitude, or with Bishop Tikhon of South Canaan, they
            tend not to be married (barring an outcry from their wives), so
            according to canon law they cannot be ordained (or if they are, they
            are not permitted to marry). By the way, a non-ordained ("blessed")
            Subdeacon cannot touch, nor put on or take off anything from the Holy
            Table, nor touch the Holy Vessels. However, for whatever reason, most
            bishops find it necessary, or at least desirable, to bless servers to
            wear an orarion.

            A notable exception would be Bishop Tikhon of San Francisco, Los
            Angeles, and the West. His Grace does not believe that an order of
            "blessed subdeacon" exists, which is true, and therefore has a policy
            not to bless those serving as subdeacons in The Diocese of the West to
            wear an orarion. However, His Grace has also been known to ordain
            unmarried servers to the subdiaconate, allowing them to marry
            afterwards.

            I hope this helps, but I fear I may have confused the issue further.

            With love in Christ,
            Reader (occasionally serving as subdeacon, and sometimes even receiving
            a blessing to wear an orarion, but never being assigned the title of
            "blessed subdeacon") Alexander

            On Apr 12, 2005, at 7:24 PM, Justin wrote:

            > Glory to Jesus Christ!
            >
            > I have asked a few persons this question and have received different
            > answers, all of which made sense.
            >
            > In Russian tradition, a reader can be blessed to wear the orarion and
            > serve as a sub-deacon.
            >
            > In Greek tradition, a reader is vested in the orarion as part of the
            > tonsuring service (at least in the Greek Archdiocese in America).
            > Since the only time there is the ordination of a sub-deacon in
            > Archdiocesan practice is right before he's ordained a deacon, the
            > functions of sub-deacons are usually performed by readers anyways.
            >
            > Are these practices equivalent? When serving in a parish of a
            > Russian tradition (i.e. the OCA), should such a reader wear the
            > orarion (provided of course he has cleared such with the celebrating
            > priest or bishop.)?
            >
            > I'm just curious to get people's thoughts on this.
            >
            > In Christ,
            > Rdr. Justin
          • James Morgan
            I meant to say without orarion not without sticharia a big poklon here! Rdr. James ... From: James Morgan [mailto:rdrjames@comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday,
            Message 5 of 17 , Apr 13, 2005
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              I meant to say "without orarion" not "without sticharia" a big poklon
              here!

              Rdr. James

              -----Original Message-----
              From: James Morgan [mailto:rdrjames@...]
              Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 5:02 PM
              To: orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [orthodox-readers] Readers and the Orarion


              Dear Justin:

              I am obviously neither deacon, subdeacon nor bishop, but the only time I as
              a tonsured reader would wear an orarion, was when the presiding clergy
              handed me one and told me to put it on. It's hard enough to get me into a
              sticharion...especially one that does not have holes in the sides so one can
              get to his hanky...
              I have seen readers without sticharia vest the bishop, when there was no
              subdeacon on board. Of course they did it slower...
              Rdr. James
              Olympia, WA
            • Rick Patterson
              Justin, I think Rd. Sem. Alexander said it best, since he is at a seminary and in my diocese. The issue with the orarion is a very sticky one at best. I
              Message 6 of 17 , Apr 13, 2005
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                Justin,

                I think Rd. Sem. Alexander said it best, since he is at a seminary and
                in my diocese. The issue with the orarion is a very "sticky" one at
                best. I guess it is up to the ruling hierarch of the diocese you are in.

                Sbdn. John Patterson

                --- In orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, "Justin" <jm_griffing@y...>
                wrote:
                >
                >
                > Glory to Jesus Christ!
                >
                > I have asked a few persons this question and have received different
                > answers, all of which made sense.
                >
                > In Russian tradition, a reader can be blessed to wear the orarion and
                > serve as a sub-deacon.
                >
                > In Greek tradition, a reader is vested in the orarion as part of the
                > tonsuring service (at least in the Greek Archdiocese in America).
                > Since the only time there is the ordination of a sub-deacon in
                > Archdiocesan practice is right before he's ordained a deacon, the
                > functions of sub-deacons are usually performed by readers anyways.
                >
                > Are these practices equivalent? When serving in a parish of a
                > Russian tradition (i.e. the OCA), should such a reader wear the
                > orarion (provided of course he has cleared such with the celebrating
                > priest or bishop.)?
                >
                > I'm just curious to get people's thoughts on this.
                >
                > In Christ,
                > Rdr. Justin
              • Reader Michael Malloy
                What is an Orarion? I ve never heard the term before. I wear a Podryaznik (I appologize for the spelling...). It s essentially a black cassock. Reader
                Message 7 of 17 , Apr 13, 2005
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                  What is an "Orarion?" I've never heard the term before.

                  I wear a "Podryaznik" (I appologize for the spelling...). It's
                  essentially a black cassock.

                  Reader Michael Malloy
                  Columbus OH


                  --- In orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, "Justin" <jm_griffing@y...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Glory to Jesus Christ!
                  >
                  > I have asked a few persons this question and have received different
                  > answers, all of which made sense.
                  >
                  > In Russian tradition, a reader can be blessed to wear the orarion and
                  > serve as a sub-deacon.
                  >
                  > In Greek tradition, a reader is vested in the orarion as part of the
                  > tonsuring service (at least in the Greek Archdiocese in America).
                  > Since the only time there is the ordination of a sub-deacon in
                  > Archdiocesan practice is right before he's ordained a deacon, the
                  > functions of sub-deacons are usually performed by readers anyways.
                  >
                  > Are these practices equivalent? When serving in a parish of a
                  > Russian tradition (i.e. the OCA), should such a reader wear the
                  > orarion (provided of course he has cleared such with the celebrating
                  > priest or bishop.)?
                  >
                  > I'm just curious to get people's thoughts on this.
                  >
                  > In Christ,
                  > Rdr. Justin
                • Stephen Parsons
                  ... It s the stole a subdeacon and deacon wear--the subdeacon s wrapped around his body, and the deacon s draped over his left shoulder. If there s a different
                  Message 8 of 17 , Apr 13, 2005
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                    --- In orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, "Reader Michael Malloy"
                    <sputnikpsalomschchika@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > What is an "Orarion?"

                    It's the stole a subdeacon and deacon wear--the subdeacon's wrapped
                    around his body, and the deacon's draped over his left shoulder. If
                    there's a different Slavonic term, I don't know what it is.
                    http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/Orarion

                    > I wear a "Podryaznik" [snip]. It's essentially a black cassock.

                    Yep. It's funny how the Slavonic and Greek terminology is parallel but
                    different. One calls the priest's big outer garment "riassa" and the
                    other "exorasson" (outer-riassa), but the tailored under-garment
                    "podriaznik" (inner-riassa) vs "anterri".

                    -- Stephen in NC (rdr Joseph)
                  • nmmihalik@earthlink.net
                    Dear List Members, FWIW, in the ROCOR, this really isn t a big issue. I have never heard the term blessed subdeacon until embarking on this thread. We
                    Message 9 of 17 , Apr 13, 2005
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                      Dear List Members,

                      FWIW, in the ROCOR, this really isn't a big issue. I have never heard the term "blessed subdeacon" until embarking on this thread. We obviously have acolytes, readers, and subdeacons. The subdeacon wears the orarion as required by his rank. A reader or acolyte may receive a blessing to wear an orarion as an award for good and faithful service to the Church. A reader or acolyte, with or without an orarion, may act in the capacity of a subdeacon, but would never call himself a "blessed subdeacon". So essentially, one doesn't know if a "server" clad like a subdeacon is a bona fide subdeacon unless he is observed moving articles on the Holy Table or notice is taken of how he is vested for communion. By convention in the ROCOR, readers and subdeacons must receive communion vested at their proper rank. Thus, subdeacons receive communion still clad in stikharion and orarion. Readers who are blessed to wear an orarion, must shed the orarion for communion and receive in stikharion only. Acolytes blessed to wear an orarion must shed the orarion, as well as stikharion, and receive in street clothes.

                      To the best of my knowledge, the canon concerning marriage and ordination as a subdeacon is alive and well. The unmarried reader seeking elevation to the subdiaconate must use caution.

                      I hope I haven't clouded the issue any further. I wish all (with or without orarion) a rewarding remainder of Great Lent as we approach our Saviour's Passion and Resurrection.

                      Sincerely,

                      Nicholas Mihalik

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Scott Adams
                      If ... It s pretty much the same. In Slavonic it s Orar (Орарь -- if your computer reads Russian). If you take a Greek
                      Message 10 of 17 , Apr 13, 2005
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                        If
                        > there's a different Slavonic term, I don't know what
                        > it is.
                        > http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/Orarion
                        >

                        It's pretty much the same. In Slavonic it's Orar'
                        (Орарь -- if your
                        computer reads Russian). If you take a Greek
                        church-related word and chop off the ending, you'll
                        usually get a Russian/Slavonic word.

                        Rdr. Slava



                        __________________________________
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                      • Fr. John Whiteford
                        There are many readers in ROCOR with a blessing to wear the crossed orarion. This is done because bishops do not want to tonsure someone a subdeacon who is
                        Message 11 of 17 , Apr 14, 2005
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                          There are many readers in ROCOR with a blessing to wear the crossed
                          orarion. This is done because bishops do not want to tonsure someone
                          a subdeacon who is not married, but they need people who can serve
                          the role that subdeacons serve during hierarchical services.

                          -Fr. John

                          --- In orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, <nmmihalik@e...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Dear List Members,
                          >
                          > FWIW, in the ROCOR, this really isn't a big issue. I have never
                          heard the term "blessed subdeacon" until embarking on this thread.
                          We obviously have acolytes, readers, and subdeacons. The subdeacon
                          wears the orarion as required by his rank. A reader or acolyte may
                          receive a blessing to wear an orarion as an award for good and
                          faithful service to the Church. A reader or acolyte, with or without
                          an orarion, may act in the capacity of a subdeacon, but would never
                          call himself a "blessed subdeacon". So essentially, one doesn't know
                          if a "server" clad like a subdeacon is a bona fide subdeacon unless
                          he is observed moving articles on the Holy Table or notice is taken
                          of how he is vested for communion. By convention in the ROCOR,
                          readers and subdeacons must receive communion vested at their proper
                          rank. Thus, subdeacons receive communion still clad in stikharion
                          and orarion. Readers who are blessed to wear an orarion, must shed
                          the orarion for communion and receive in stikharion only. Acolytes
                          blessed to wear an orarion must shed the orarion, as well as
                          stikharion, and receive in street clothes.
                          >
                          > To the best of my knowledge, the canon concerning marriage and
                          ordination as a subdeacon is alive and well. The unmarried reader
                          seeking elevation to the subdiaconate must use caution.
                          >
                          > I hope I haven't clouded the issue any further. I wish all (with
                          or without orarion) a rewarding remainder of Great Lent as we
                          approach our Saviour's Passion and Resurrection.
                          >
                          > Sincerely,
                          >
                          > Nicholas Mihalik
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • andrew@chrysostom.org
                          ... Orar is the term I ve heard some Slavs use around St. Tikhon s. In XC, Rdr. Andrew -- -|- --------------------- ---- http://www.chrysostom.org/andrew/
                          Message 12 of 17 , Apr 14, 2005
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                            Stephen Parsons wrote:

                            > It's the stole a subdeacon and deacon wear--the subdeacon's wrapped
                            > around his body, and the deacon's draped over his left shoulder. If
                            > there's a different Slavonic term, I don't know what it is.
                            > http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/Orarion

                            "Orar" is the term I've heard some Slavs use around St. Tikhon's.




                            In XC,

                            Rdr. Andrew

                            --
                            -|- --------------------- ---- http://www.chrysostom.org/andrew/ ----
                            --|-- Andrew Stephen Damick ---- AIM: ASDamick213 -- ICQ: 38145103 ----
                            \| andrew@... ------ Orthodox Christian Seminarian ------
                            |\ --------------------- - St. Tikhon's Seminary, South Canaan, PA -
                          • Stephen Parsons
                            ... Andrew! Glad to see you still around. Thanks (and to Rdr Slava) on the Slavonic term. Yeah, I was guessing that that was a likely possibility (by analogy
                            Message 13 of 17 , Apr 14, 2005
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                              --- In orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, andrew@c... wrote:
                              > Stephen Parsons wrote:
                              >
                              > "Orar" is the term I've heard some Slavs use around St. Tikhon's.

                              Andrew! Glad to 'see' you still around. Thanks (and to Rdr Slava) on
                              the Slavonic term. Yeah, I was guessing that that was a likely
                              possibility (by analogy with troparion -> tropar, kontakion -> kondak,
                              not to mention Demetrios -> Dmitri, etc., etc.). I hadn't actually
                              heard it used though, so I didn't want to guess out loud. :-)

                              -- Stephen in NC (rdr Joseph)
                            • daxaphon
                              This has always been an interesting question to me as well, since I was tonsured in the GOA, but not until I was 19, when I wasn t even serving in the altar or
                              Message 14 of 17 , Apr 20, 2005
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                                This has always been an interesting question to me as well, since I
                                was tonsured in the GOA, but not until I was 19, when I wasn't even
                                serving in the altar or reading anymore. All altar servers wore the
                                orarion, but not crossed like a subdeacon. This was very confusing
                                to me because 4 years ago, when I came to the OCA and was going to
                                be ordained a subdeacon, I wasn't really sure if I had been already
                                or not because the bishop gave me an orarion at my tonsuring, but
                                there was no reading of the epistle like at a Russian style
                                tonsuring. All is well now though, but I would like to understand
                                the history of the Greek practice of orarion wearing, if anyone
                                knows anything about it.
                                Subdeacon Anthony




                                --- In orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, "Justin" <jm_griffing@y...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > Glory to Jesus Christ!
                                >
                                > I have asked a few persons this question and have received
                                different
                                > answers, all of which made sense.
                                >
                                > In Russian tradition, a reader can be blessed to wear the orarion
                                and
                                > serve as a sub-deacon.
                                >
                                > In Greek tradition, a reader is vested in the orarion as part of
                                the
                                > tonsuring service (at least in the Greek Archdiocese in America).
                                > Since the only time there is the ordination of a sub-deacon in
                                > Archdiocesan practice is right before he's ordained a deacon, the
                                > functions of sub-deacons are usually performed by readers
                                anyways.
                                >
                                > Are these practices equivalent? When serving in a parish of a
                                > Russian tradition (i.e. the OCA), should such a reader wear the
                                > orarion (provided of course he has cleared such with the
                                celebrating
                                > priest or bishop.)?
                                >
                                > I'm just curious to get people's thoughts on this.
                                >
                                > In Christ,
                                > Rdr. Justin
                              • John Patterson
                                Sbdn Anthony, I could be wrong, but I think it is because in the greek tradition there aren t really any subdeacons and so the altar boys appropriated the
                                Message 15 of 17 , Apr 20, 2005
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                                  Sbdn Anthony,

                                  I could be wrong, but I think it is because in the greek tradition
                                  there aren't really any subdeacons and so the altar boys appropriated
                                  the orarion for use with the stikharion. Like I said, I could be
                                  worng and I would like to know why as well.

                                  Sbdn. John

                                  --- In orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, "daxaphon" <daxaphon@y...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > This has always been an interesting question to me as well, since I
                                  > was tonsured in the GOA, but not until I was 19, when I wasn't even
                                  > serving in the altar or reading anymore. All altar servers wore the
                                  > orarion, but not crossed like a subdeacon. This was very confusing
                                  > to me because 4 years ago, when I came to the OCA and was going to
                                  > be ordained a subdeacon, I wasn't really sure if I had been already
                                  > or not because the bishop gave me an orarion at my tonsuring, but
                                  > there was no reading of the epistle like at a Russian style
                                  > tonsuring. All is well now though, but I would like to understand
                                  > the history of the Greek practice of orarion wearing, if anyone
                                  > knows anything about it.
                                  > Subdeacon Anthony
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, "Justin" <jm_griffing@y...>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Glory to Jesus Christ!
                                  > >
                                  > > I have asked a few persons this question and have received
                                  > different
                                  > > answers, all of which made sense.
                                  > >
                                  > > In Russian tradition, a reader can be blessed to wear the orarion
                                  > and
                                  > > serve as a sub-deacon.
                                  > >
                                  > > In Greek tradition, a reader is vested in the orarion as part of
                                  > the
                                  > > tonsuring service (at least in the Greek Archdiocese in America).
                                  > > Since the only time there is the ordination of a sub-deacon in
                                  > > Archdiocesan practice is right before he's ordained a deacon, the
                                  > > functions of sub-deacons are usually performed by readers
                                  > anyways.
                                  > >
                                  > > Are these practices equivalent? When serving in a parish of a
                                  > > Russian tradition (i.e. the OCA), should such a reader wear the
                                  > > orarion (provided of course he has cleared such with the
                                  > celebrating
                                  > > priest or bishop.)?
                                  > >
                                  > > I'm just curious to get people's thoughts on this.
                                  > >
                                  > > In Christ,
                                  > > Rdr. Justin
                                • polychrony
                                  One would think that there would be a substantially greater supply of married men to select from, than unmarried ones (typically limited to the age group of
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Apr 25, 2005
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                                    One would think that there would be a substantially greater supply of
                                    married men to select from, than unmarried ones (typically limited to
                                    the age group of 18-30; while the married would be from ca. 21-65),
                                    and even in the 25-30, the married may out-number the unmarried. Yes?

                                    Polychronios

                                    n orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John Whiteford"
                                    <frjohnwhiteford@y...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > There are many readers in ROCOR with a blessing to wear the crossed
                                    > orarion. This is done because bishops do not want to tonsure someone
                                    > a subdeacon who is not married, but they need people who can serve
                                    > the role that subdeacons serve during hierarchical services.
                                    >
                                    > -Fr. John
                                    >
                                    > --- In orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, <nmmihalik@e...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Dear List Members,
                                    > >
                                    > > FWIW, in the ROCOR, this really isn't a big issue. I have never
                                    > heard the term "blessed subdeacon" until embarking on this thread.
                                    > We obviously have acolytes, readers, and subdeacons. The subdeacon
                                    > wears the orarion as required by his rank. A reader or acolyte may
                                    > receive a blessing to wear an orarion as an award for good and
                                    > faithful service to the Church. A reader or acolyte, with or without
                                    > an orarion, may act in the capacity of a subdeacon, but would never
                                    > call himself a "blessed subdeacon". So essentially, one doesn't know
                                    > if a "server" clad like a subdeacon is a bona fide subdeacon unless
                                    > he is observed moving articles on the Holy Table or notice is taken
                                    > of how he is vested for communion. By convention in the ROCOR,
                                    > readers and subdeacons must receive communion vested at their proper
                                    > rank. Thus, subdeacons receive communion still clad in stikharion
                                    > and orarion. Readers who are blessed to wear an orarion, must shed
                                    > the orarion for communion and receive in stikharion only. Acolytes
                                    > blessed to wear an orarion must shed the orarion, as well as
                                    > stikharion, and receive in street clothes.
                                    > >
                                    > > To the best of my knowledge, the canon concerning marriage and
                                    > ordination as a subdeacon is alive and well. The unmarried reader
                                    > seeking elevation to the subdiaconate must use caution.
                                    > >
                                    > > I hope I haven't clouded the issue any further. I wish all (with
                                    > or without orarion) a rewarding remainder of Great Lent as we
                                    > approach our Saviour's Passion and Resurrection.
                                    > >
                                    > > Sincerely,
                                    > >
                                    > > Nicholas Mihalik
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Fr. John Whiteford
                                    There is the question of being both willing and able, though. ... http://us.click.yahoo.com/UwRTUD/UOnJAA/i1hLAA/m.VolB/TM ...
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Apr 26, 2005
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      There is the question of being both willing and able,
                                      though.

                                      --- polychrony <Polychrony@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > One would think that there would be a substantially
                                      > greater supply of
                                      > married men to select from, than unmarried ones
                                      > (typically limited to
                                      > the age group of 18-30; while the married would be
                                      > from ca. 21-65),
                                      > and even in the 25-30, the married may out-number
                                      > the unmarried. Yes?
                                      >
                                      > Polychronios
                                      >
                                      > n orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, "Fr. John
                                      > Whiteford"
                                      > <frjohnwhiteford@y...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > There are many readers in ROCOR with a blessing to
                                      > wear the crossed
                                      > > orarion. This is done because bishops do not want
                                      > to tonsure someone
                                      > > a subdeacon who is not married, but they need
                                      > people who can serve
                                      > > the role that subdeacons serve during hierarchical
                                      > services.
                                      > >
                                      > > -Fr. John
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com,
                                      > <nmmihalik@e...> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Dear List Members,
                                      > > >
                                      > > > FWIW, in the ROCOR, this really isn't a big
                                      > issue. I have never
                                      > > heard the term "blessed subdeacon" until embarking
                                      > on this thread.
                                      > > We obviously have acolytes, readers, and
                                      > subdeacons. The subdeacon
                                      > > wears the orarion as required by his rank. A
                                      > reader or acolyte may
                                      > > receive a blessing to wear an orarion as an award
                                      > for good and
                                      > > faithful service to the Church. A reader or
                                      > acolyte, with or without
                                      > > an orarion, may act in the capacity of a
                                      > subdeacon, but would never
                                      > > call himself a "blessed subdeacon". So
                                      > essentially, one doesn't know
                                      > > if a "server" clad like a subdeacon is a bona fide
                                      > subdeacon unless
                                      > > he is observed moving articles on the Holy Table
                                      > or notice is taken
                                      > > of how he is vested for communion. By convention
                                      > in the ROCOR,
                                      > > readers and subdeacons must receive communion
                                      > vested at their proper
                                      > > rank. Thus, subdeacons receive communion still
                                      > clad in stikharion
                                      > > and orarion. Readers who are blessed to wear an
                                      > orarion, must shed
                                      > > the orarion for communion and receive in
                                      > stikharion only. Acolytes
                                      > > blessed to wear an orarion must shed the orarion,
                                      > as well as
                                      > > stikharion, and receive in street clothes.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > To the best of my knowledge, the canon
                                      > concerning marriage and
                                      > > ordination as a subdeacon is alive and well. The
                                      > unmarried reader
                                      > > seeking elevation to the subdiaconate must use
                                      > caution.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I hope I haven't clouded the issue any further.
                                      > I wish all (with
                                      > > or without orarion) a rewarding remainder of Great
                                      > Lent as we
                                      > > approach our Saviour's Passion and Resurrection.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Sincerely,
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Nicholas Mihalik
                                      > > >
                                      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                      > removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
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                                      Fr. John Whiteford
                                      St. Jonah Orthodox Church
                                      Parish Home Page: http://www.saintjonah.org/
                                      ROCOR Discussion Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-rocor/
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                                      Blog: http://fatherjohn.blogspot.com/
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