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Subject: [orthodox-readers] Epistle readings

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  • Elizabeth A Porter
    Was just reading this evening in the Preface of the Horologion printed by Saint Tikhon s: Until 1888 the Greek, Slav and Romanian Churches observed
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 27, 2005
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      Was just reading this evening in the Preface of the Horologion printed by
      Saint Tikhon's:

      "Until 1888 the Greek, Slav and Romanian Churches observed essentially
      the same Typikon. In that year, however, the Church of Constantinople
      adopted a revised Typikon that differs radically from that used in the
      Slavic Churches; this revision has been generally accepted by
      Greek-speaking churches, although the older Typikon is still used by most
      Greek monasteries."

      Does this answer that annoying question that I have had of the difference
      in the Gospel (and the Epistle) readings that comes up when my husband
      attends the Greek Archdiocese Church and I the OCA????

      Elizabeth

      Subject: [orthodox-readers] Epistle readings

      Does anyone know if there are differences between the Byzantine and
      Slavic usages for the cycle of Epistle readings throught the course of
      the year? In other words, would there be any difficulty with an OCA
      parish using an Apostolos published by the Greeks or a GOA parish using
      an Apostol published by the OCA?

      Thanks in advance.

      In Christ,
      Subdeacon John


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • John Congdon
      That sounds like it makes sense (although I m certainly no expert; does the Typicon prescribe the readings on the calendar as well as the hymnody, etc?). You
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 27, 2005
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        That sounds like it makes sense (although I'm certainly no expert;
        does the Typicon prescribe the readings on the calendar as well as
        the hymnody, etc?). You could also get a difference from one parish
        being on the Julian calendar and the other on the revised Julian
        calendar, although that would only affect fixed feasts and not
        Sundays calculated from Pentecost, etc.

        Presumably this harmony of usage was the result of Patriarch Nikon
        bringing the Russian church into conformity with the contemporary
        Greek practice in the mid 1600s. I wonder what this 1888 revision
        entailed; was it a return to the more ancient Greek practice or
        something new entirely?

        I asked my priest about the differences in usage. He told me an
        amusing anecdote about carefully preparing a sermon based on the
        readings listed in a Greek edition of the calendar and being filled
        with shock and dismay to hear the deacon reading a totally different
        Epistle!

        In XC,
        Subdeacon John

        --- In orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, Elizabeth A Porter
        <ebezzsolo@j...> wrote:
        > Was just reading this evening in the Preface of the Horologion
        printed by
        > Saint Tikhon's:
        >
        > "Until 1888 the Greek, Slav and Romanian Churches observed
        essentially
        > the same Typikon. In that year, however, the Church of
        Constantinople
        > adopted a revised Typikon that differs radically from that used in
        the
        > Slavic Churches; this revision has been generally accepted by
        > Greek-speaking churches, although the older Typikon is still used
        by most
        > Greek monasteries."
        >
        > Does this answer that annoying question that I have had of the
        difference
        > in the Gospel (and the Epistle) readings that comes up when my
        husband
        > attends the Greek Archdiocese Church and I the OCA????
        >
        > Elizabeth
        >
        > Subject: [orthodox-readers] Epistle readings
        >
        > Does anyone know if there are differences between the Byzantine and
        > Slavic usages for the cycle of Epistle readings throught the course
        of
        > the year? In other words, would there be any difficulty with an OCA
        > parish using an Apostolos published by the Greeks or a GOA parish
        using
        > an Apostol published by the OCA?
        >
        > Thanks in advance.
        >
        > In Christ,
        > Subdeacon John
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Stephen Parsons
        ... From what I can tell browsing just now, it does specify the readings which are attached to certain dates/feasts. But I m not sure whether it includes the
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 27, 2005
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          --- In orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, "John Congdon"
          <subdeaconjhcc@y...> wrote:
          >
          > does the Typicon prescribe the readings on the calendar as well as
          > the hymnody, etc?

          From what I can tell browsing just now, it does specify the readings
          which are attached to certain dates/feasts. But I'm not sure whether
          it includes the specification of the regular daily cycle of readings
          somewhere. It would help if I could actually read Slavonic and not
          just recognize and/or sound out some words. :-)

          Looking at some OCA calendars from recent years, I see a pattern of
          having the same readings in order on the same days of the week--but
          they aren't all on the same post-paschal week number each year (unless
          there's a misprint in one or more of the calendars, which happens
          sometimes).

          -- Stephen in NC (Rdr Joseph)
        • Alex Vallens
          The issue with the Gospel probably has to do with the Lukan Jump. An article explaining this phenomenon can be found here: or
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 27, 2005
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            The issue with the Gospel probably has to do with the "Lukan Jump." An
            article explaining this phenomenon can be found here:
            <http://tinyurl.com/4twya>
            or here:
            <http://tinyurl.com/4m3nh>

            The Slavic Churches make this transition, the Greek Churches do not.
            The Epistle readings in all Churches, however, I believe should follow
            the same lectionary.

            With love in Christ,
            Reader Alexander

            On Jan 27, 2005, at 4:34 AM, Elizabeth A Porter wrote:

            >
            > Was just reading this evening in the Preface of the Horologion printed
            > by
            > Saint Tikhon's:
            >
            > "Until 1888 the Greek, Slav and Romanian Churches observed essentially
            > the same Typikon. In that year, however, the Church of Constantinople
            > adopted a revised Typikon that differs radically from that used in the
            > Slavic Churches; this revision has been generally accepted by
            > Greek-speaking churches, although the older Typikon is still used by
            > most
            > Greek monasteries."
            >
            > Does this answer that annoying question that I have had of the
            > difference
            > in the Gospel (and the Epistle) readings that comes up when my husband
            > attends the Greek Archdiocese Church and I the OCA????
            >
            > Elizabeth
            >
            > Subject: [orthodox-readers] Epistle readings
            >
            > Does anyone know if there are differences between the Byzantine and
            > Slavic usages for the cycle of Epistle readings throught the course of
            > the year? In other words, would there be any difficulty with an OCA
            > parish using an Apostolos published by the Greeks or a GOA parish using
            > an Apostol published by the OCA?
            >
            > Thanks in advance.
            >
            > In Christ,
            > Subdeacon John
          • andrew@chrysostom.org
            ... A point of order, Mr. Chairman. The Greek churches do, in fact, make the Lukan Jump. I m looking at it appointed for Sept. 25th right here on the list of
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 27, 2005
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              Alex Vallens wrote:

              > The issue with the Gospel probably has to do with the "Lukan Jump."

              > The Slavic Churches make this transition, the Greek Churches do not.

              A point of order, Mr. Chairman.

              The Greek churches do, in fact, make the Lukan Jump. I'm looking at it
              appointed for Sept. 25th right here on the list of Gospels appointed for
              every Sunday of 2005 sent out by Metr. Philip of New York (Antiochian).

              I also note the same thing on the calendar on the Greek Archdiocese
              website: http://www.goarch.org/en/chapel/calendar.asp?Y=2005&M=9





              Yours,

              Rdr. Andrew

              --
              __________Andrew Stephen Damick_____andrew@...______
              "There are two ways, one of life and one of death, and there is |
              a great difference between the two ways." -- The Didache 1:1 |
            • Alex Vallens
              I stand corrected by my brother seminarian. My apologies. The reason I thought the Greek Churches did not make the jump is because in our homiletics class (as
              Message 6 of 9 , Jan 27, 2005
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                I stand corrected by my brother seminarian. My apologies.

                The reason I thought the Greek Churches did not make the jump is
                because in our homiletics class (as recently as this past fall) we had
                always encountered a divergence between which Sunday Gospel the OCA and
                Antiochian students would preach on, due to the Lukan jump.

                Again, please forgive me.

                With love in Christ,
                Reader Alexander

                On Jan 27, 2005, at 4:46 PM, andrew@... wrote:

                > Alex Vallens wrote:
                >
                >> The issue with the Gospel probably has to do with the "Lukan Jump."
                >> The Slavic Churches make this transition, the Greek Churches do not.
                >
                > A point of order, Mr. Chairman.
                >
                > The Greek churches do, in fact, make the Lukan Jump. I'm looking at it
                > appointed for Sept. 25th right here on the list of Gospels appointed
                > for
                > every Sunday of 2005 sent out by Metr. Philip of New York (Antiochian).
                >
                > I also note the same thing on the calendar on the Greek Archdiocese
                > website: http://www.goarch.org/en/chapel/calendar.asp?Y=2005&M=9
                >
                > Yours,
                >
                > Rdr. Andrew
              • Phil Anderson
                Dear gentlemen, Are you seminarians at St. Tikhon s? If so, as someone dreaming of attending someday, may I contact you off-list? In Christ, Reader Vladimir
                Message 7 of 9 , Jan 27, 2005
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                  Dear gentlemen,

                  Are you seminarians at St. Tikhon's? If so, as someone dreaming of
                  attending someday, may I contact you off-list?

                  In Christ,

                  Reader Vladimir

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Alex Vallens [mailto:avallens@...]
                  Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 4:03 PM
                  To: orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: Subject: [orthodox-readers] Epistle readings



                  I stand corrected by my brother seminarian. My apologies.

                  The reason I thought the Greek Churches did not make the jump is
                  because in our homiletics class (as recently as this past fall) we had
                  always encountered a divergence between which Sunday Gospel the OCA and
                  Antiochian students would preach on, due to the Lukan jump.

                  Again, please forgive me.

                  With love in Christ,
                  Reader Alexander

                  On Jan 27, 2005, at 4:46 PM, andrew@... wrote:

                  > Alex Vallens wrote:
                  >
                  >> The issue with the Gospel probably has to do with the "Lukan Jump."
                  >> The Slavic Churches make this transition, the Greek Churches do not.
                  >
                  > A point of order, Mr. Chairman.
                  >
                  > The Greek churches do, in fact, make the Lukan Jump. I'm looking at
                  > it appointed for Sept. 25th right here on the list of Gospels
                  > appointed for every Sunday of 2005 sent out by Metr. Philip of New
                  > York (Antiochian).
                  >
                  > I also note the same thing on the calendar on the Greek Archdiocese
                  > website: http://www.goarch.org/en/chapel/calendar.asp?Y=2005&M=9
                  >
                  > Yours,
                  >
                  > Rdr. Andrew




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                • andrew@chrysostom.org
                  ... Nothing to forgive! May the Lord forgive us all. I honestly don t know what the difference ends up being. It can t be calendar differences, cause we re
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jan 27, 2005
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                    Alex Vallens wrote:

                    > I stand corrected by my brother seminarian. My apologies.
                    >
                    > The reason I thought the Greek Churches did not make the jump is
                    > because in our homiletics class (as recently as this past fall) we had
                    > always encountered a divergence between which Sunday Gospel the OCA and
                    > Antiochian students would preach on, due to the Lukan jump.
                    >
                    > Again, please forgive me.

                    Nothing to forgive! May the Lord forgive us all.

                    I honestly don't know what the difference ends up being. It can't be
                    calendar differences, 'cause we're on the same calendar. It does seem
                    from the webpage you linked to earlier (http://tinyurl.com/4twya) that the
                    Russian church has been inconsistent in executing the Jump, ignoring it
                    altogether for some time and even issuing multiple church calendars with
                    different lectionaries.

                    So, I can't figure it out.



                    In XC,

                    Rdr. Andrew (just do what's in the book!) ;)

                    --
                    -- andrew@... -------------- Andrew Stephen Damick ----------
                    A brother asked Abba Poemen, "How should I behave in the place where I
                    live?" The old man said, "Have the mentality of an exile in the place
                    where you live, do not desire to be listened to and you will have peace."
                  • Alex Vallens
                    Please do. Since I m busy, I may be slow to reply though. With love in Christ, Reader Alexander
                    Message 9 of 9 , Feb 24, 2005
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                      Please do. Since I'm busy, I may be slow to reply though.

                      With love in Christ,
                      Reader Alexander

                      On Jan 27, 2005, at 5:17 PM, Phil Anderson wrote:

                      >
                      > Dear gentlemen,
                      >
                      > Are you seminarians at St. Tikhon's? If so, as someone dreaming of
                      > attending someday, may I contact you off-list?
                      >
                      > In Christ,
                      >
                      > Reader Vladimir
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