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Re: [orthodox-readers] Re: When is a vigil allowed according to the Typicon

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  • Timothy Copple
    ... I ve used that for a long time too. By that, you do have the six psalms, but not the kathismas. Previously we would just plain chant the poetic kathisma s
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 17, 2004
      David Ward wrote:
      >
      > Stephan:
      >
      > I use a compiled book published by the Antiochian Archdiocese written by
      > Kazan (includes music in Byzantine chant), which has the Matins service as
      > we celebrate it. Also available is NASSAR, which includes most of the
      > services with no music. Not all of the cannon is used but the psalms are
      > included and total takes about 1 hour to complete if a fair pace is kept.
      > On major feast days matins will stretch longer.

      I've used that for a long time too. By that, you do have the six psalms,
      but not the kathismas. Previously we would just plain chant the poetic
      kathisma's that are suppose to go between the psalms. We would just do
      the katavasias for the canon and that service would take around an hour.

      Our current priest has us doing the full kathisma and we generally do
      several troparia of the canon along with the katavasias. How many
      troparia and which ones are generally left to the reader in charge, and
      is based on how much time we have left. We usually attempt to end the
      canon around 15 minutes until liturgy is suppose to start and I've
      figured out that we can do about 5 troparia from each ode to take up
      about 30 minutes time which is generally what we have left.

      Our Matins/Orthros takes about 2 hours generally and there is little
      pauses because we already know everything that will be done and have it
      laid out. Our main job is to make it prayerful as much as possible and
      our bishop has commented before that it was just that, for which I am
      glad. But you have to keep at it and not slack off too. :-)

      But our priest wouldn't let us do that anyway. ;-)

      --
      Reader Timothy Copple
      http://www.orthodoxconvert.info
      http://www.theforerunner.org
    • nmmihalik@earthlink.net
      Hello Alexander, The Entrance Prayers performed in the manner I related reflect the correct and logical order if the progression toward Divine Liturgy begins
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 21, 2004
        Hello Alexander,

        The Entrance Prayers performed in the manner I related reflect the correct and logical order if the progression toward Divine Liturgy begins on Sunday morning with Matins. These prayers are tied to the vesting of priest and deacon as well as Proskomedia. According to the Law of God , compiled by Archpriest Seraphim Slobodskoy (1912-1971) published by Holy Trinity Monastery, Jordanville NY, "In order to prepare, according to the ecclesiastical Typikon, for the celebration of the Liturgy, the priest and deacon read the "entrance prayers" before the closed Royal Doors and the enter the Sanctuary and vest. Then going to the Altar of Oblation the priest blesses the beginning of Proskomedia..." Isabella Hapgood in her Service Book states, "When the time is come to celebrate the Divine Liturgy, the Priest entereth the Temple, and, in company with the Deacon, maketh three lowly reverences before the Holy Door. Then the Deacon saith, "Bless Master." etc. The Divine Liturgy, 1967, Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Church of America (to become the OCA) under the section, The Entrance Prayers and Vesting, states, "When the Priest desires to perform the Divine Mystery,...When the time comes, he and the deacon enter the church and bow before the Holy Doors three times." The entrance prayers follow, then vesting, proskomedia, and Divine Liturgy. These are just a few examples.

        To the best of my knowledge, I have never seen these prayers done prior to vespers, matins, or a full vigil.

        I find these prayers to be particularly moving. In the quiet of the church the priest stands before the Royal Doors, and, with humility, begins the chain of events that concludes with the imparting of the Body and Blood of our Lord, Jesus Christ. And because we begin with matins on Sunday morning, our faithful get a glimpse of the fullness and order of the Divine Liturgy.

        Sincerely,

        Nicholas Mihalik

        PS. For Saint Nicholas Day last Sunday, we had eleven people in the choir by the end of the Six Psalms (around 0650). Eight to ten is the norm. By the time the Gospel is read we have around 15 to 20 total. It's a small parish of about 55 members, so I guess the percentage isn't too bad.
        From: Alex Vallens
        To: orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 4:38 PM
        Subject: Re: [orthodox-readers] Re: When is a vigil allowed according to the Typicon


        On Dec 17, 2004, at 12:49 PM, <nmmihalik@...> wrote:

        > After the 1st hour comes entrance prayers, proskomedia, 3rd and 6th
        > Hours, then Liturgy. I hope this helps.

        Why would entrance prayers come after Matins? Hasn't the Priest already
        entered the temple and served in a liturgical capacity? I can
        understand coming in and setting up for Liturgy and then doing the
        prayers, but if one is going to serve another office, the prayers
        should be said BEFORE that office is served.

        With love in Christ,
        Reader Alexander

        P.S. I admire how much of the service you actually serve. I hope the
        service is well attended.



        To learn more about reader services, see:
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        To access this lists archives, go to:
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Kevin.Claiborne@Instinet.com
        In Greek usage the Proskomedia is performed during Matins. This is true for both Sunday Matins and Vigil (Agrypnia). Therefore at least one Priest must be
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 22, 2004
          In Greek usage the Proskomedia is performed during Matins. This is
          true for both Sunday Matins and Vigil (Agrypnia). Therefore at least one
          Priest must be vested then. I've always seen the entrance prayers done when
          the clergy first enter the Temple.

          Since Slavic practice is to start the Proskomedia during the hours,
          they could conceivably do the entrance prayers between hours one and three,
          but I would think that would interrupt the flow of the service.




          <nmmihalik@...> on 12/22/2004 12:49:53 AM

          Please respond to orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com

          To: <orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com>
          cc:

          Subject: Re: [orthodox-readers] Re: When is a vigil allowed according to
          the Typicon




          Hello Alexander,

          The Entrance Prayers performed in the manner I related reflect the correct
          and logical order if the progression toward Divine Liturgy begins on
          Sunday morning with Matins. These prayers are tied to the vesting of
          priest and deacon as well as Proskomedia. According to the Law of God ,
          compiled by Archpriest Seraphim Slobodskoy (1912-1971) published by Holy
          Trinity Monastery, Jordanville NY, "In order to prepare, according to the
          ecclesiastical Typikon, for the celebration of the Liturgy, the priest and
          deacon read the "entrance prayers" before the closed Royal Doors and the
          enter the Sanctuary and vest. Then going to the Altar of Oblation the
          priest blesses the beginning of Proskomedia..." Isabella Hapgood in her
          Service Book states, "When the time is come to celebrate the Divine
          Liturgy, the Priest entereth the Temple, and, in company with the Deacon,
          maketh three lowly reverences before the Holy Door. Then the Deacon saith,
          "Bless Master." etc. The Divine Liturgy, 1967!
          , Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Church of America (to become the OCA)
          under the section, The Entrance Prayers and Vesting, states, "When the
          Priest desires to perform the Divine Mystery,...When the time comes, he
          and the deacon enter the church and bow before the Holy Doors three
          times." The entrance prayers follow, then vesting, proskomedia, and
          Divine Liturgy. These are just a few examples.

          To the best of my knowledge, I have never seen these prayers done prior to
          vespers, matins, or a full vigil.

          I find these prayers to be particularly moving. In the quiet of the church
          the priest stands before the Royal Doors, and, with humility, begins the
          chain of events that concludes with the imparting of the Body and Blood of
          our Lord, Jesus Christ. And because we begin with matins on Sunday morning,
          our faithful get a glimpse of the fullness and order of the Divine Liturgy.

          Sincerely,

          Nicholas Mihalik

          PS. For Saint Nicholas Day last Sunday, we had eleven people in the choir
          by the end of the Six Psalms (around 0650). Eight to ten is the norm. By
          the time the Gospel is read we have around 15 to 20 total. It's a small
          parish of about 55 members, so I guess the percentage isn't too bad.
          From: Alex Vallens
          To: orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 4:38 PM
          Subject: Re: [orthodox-readers] Re: When is a vigil allowed according to
          the Typicon


          On Dec 17, 2004, at 12:49 PM, <nmmihalik@...> wrote:

          > After the 1st hour comes entrance prayers, proskomedia, 3rd and 6th
          > Hours, then Liturgy. I hope this helps.

          Why would entrance prayers come after Matins? Hasn't the Priest already
          entered the temple and served in a liturgical capacity? I can
          understand coming in and setting up for Liturgy and then doing the
          prayers, but if one is going to serve another office, the prayers
          should be said BEFORE that office is served.

          With love in Christ,
          Reader Alexander

          P.S. I admire how much of the service you actually serve. I hope the
          service is well attended.



          To learn more about reader services, see:
          http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm

          To access this lists archives, go to:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
          ogion.htm

          To access this lists archives, go to:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers



          Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          ADVERTISEMENT





          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links

          a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers/

          b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          orthodox-readers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

          c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







          To learn more about reader services, see:
          http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm

          To access this lists archives, go to:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
          ogion.htm

          To access this lists archives, go to:
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers

          Yahoo! Groups Links














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