Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [orthodox-readers] Re: What is the traditional position of the Church on women readers?

Expand Messages
  • Deacon Michael Bishop
    Part of the requirement for a MDiv degree at some Orthodox seminarys is for the student to preach a sermon in a parish and have it photographed. Since women
    Message 1 of 21 , Jan 23, 2008
      Part of the requirement for a MDiv degree at some Orthodox seminarys is
      for the student to preach a sermon in a parish and have it photographed.
      Since women are in the program, they are also required to give a sermon.

      Some tmes it is a breathe of fresh air to hear somebody other than the
      priest giving the sermon. A person who has a job in ministry can often
      share insights with us that the priest [or deacon] just cannot share.
      My priest is very conservative and recently he had an unordained man
      give the sermon at the end of the Liturgy. I missed half of it since I
      was consuming the gifts.

      I have preached several sermons in parishes while I was a tonsured
      Reader. Only once do I recall hearing a woman give a sermon and this
      was a part of her MDiv or MA requirement. It was an excellent sermon
      and I personally think that she "streched" us much more than the priest
      would had done.

      I said "stretch" because the only thing that I learned in my homoletics
      class is that when we preach we are supposed to stretch the people. We
      were never given any help on how to do this. My sermons were successful
      because of my Toastmaster experience and the help from the Protestant
      chaplain (an Episcopal priest) of my Air Force Reserve unit.

      Deacon Michael



      John C Patterson wrote:
      > It is uncommon in my experience to see anyone but a priest, bishop or
      > deacon giving a sermon. I have seen a reader give one with the
      > priest's blessing because that reader was going to be going to
      > seminary and has some theological training already. I have never done
      > it... thank God, and I have never seen a woman do it either. If you
      > go to a liberal catholic church, Novus Ordo, you would have a good
      > chance of seeing this phenomenon.
      >
      > John
      >
      >
      > --- In orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, "Olympiada" <olympiada06@...>
      > wrote:
      >
      >>--- In orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Langley"
      >><alexlangley@> wrote:
      >>
      >>>As I've had a bit more sleep, I want to add to my prior reply that
      >>>first of all it is refreshing to have this new topic here.
      >>>
      >>>Also, at the Cathedral of the Protection of Mary in Minneapolis, we
      >>>have women scheduled to read the hours and Epistle and other readings
      >>>as well as men (tonsured and untonsured). I'd be surprised if there
      >>>ever were to be a problem with this, or that it ever would have been
      >>>considered an innovation.
      >>>
      >>>This question made me think about deaconesses. When it was a common
      >>>practice to ordain women to the holy diaconate, where their "minor"
      >>>ranks for them like reader or sub-deaconess?
      >>>
      >>>Thank you Olympiada for this topic.
      >>>
      >>>Rdr. Alexander
      >>>
      >>
      >>Nobody has addressed my question about women delivering sermons, or
      >>priests delivering women's sermons. How old is that practice? And what
      >>are the qualifications for a woman's homily?
      >>
      >>Olympiada
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To learn more about reader services, see:
      > http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm
      >
      > To access this lists archives, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
      > ogion.htm
      >
      > To access this lists archives, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >

      --
      Deacon Michael Bishop
      PO Box 23485
      Baltimore MD 21213-5485
      http://www.Michael-Bishop.com

      See you at the Russian Festival
      17-19 October 2008
    • Deacon Michael Bishop
      If there is only one deacon, he reads the Gospel. A second deacon would read the Epistle. I have never seen a priest reading the Epistle. In some parishes,
      Message 2 of 21 , Jan 24, 2008
        If there is only one deacon, he reads the Gospel. A second deacon would
        read the Epistle. I have never seen a priest reading the Epistle.

        In some parishes, when there are two Epistle readings appointed, one
        reader would read the Prokeimenon and the first one and another the
        second and Alleluia. As a tonsured Reader in my old parish, at least on
        one occasion I read with Dr. Stephanie.

        Does any parish actually read the Epistle in Russian? In my experience,
        in a Russian church we say "Russian" when we really mean Slavonic and in
        a Serbian church we say "Serbian" when we actually mean Slavonic. I'm
        very fussy about keeping the proper distinction between there is a
        difference and I know a family who goes to a Protestant church because
        they do not understand Slavonic but they do understand and speak Russian.

        Deacon Michael

        Joseph wrote:
        > I have seen women read the hours and Epistle as well, but only if
        > the parish does not have a tonsured reader, ordained subdeacon or
        > deacon. Or, if the parish reads the Epistle in two languages..ie
        > reader reads in english and lay person (maybe a women) reads in
        > Russian.
        > I would think that there is no problem unless there is clergy
        > (minor or major) in attendance, as this is what they are ordained (or
        > tonsured) to do.
        >
        > humbly
        > sdcn joseph
        >
        >
        > --- In orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Langley"
        > <alexlangley@...> wrote:
        >
        >>As I've had a bit more sleep, I want to add to my prior reply that
        >>first of all it is refreshing to have this new topic here.
        >>
        >>Also, at the Cathedral of the Protection of Mary in Minneapolis, we
        >>have women scheduled to read the hours and Epistle and other
        >
        > readings
        >
        >>as well as men (tonsured and untonsured). I'd be surprised if there
        >>ever were to be a problem with this, or that it ever would have been
        >>considered an innovation.
        >>
        >>This question made me think about deaconesses. When it was a common
        >>practice to ordain women to the holy diaconate, where their "minor"
        >>ranks for them like reader or sub-deaconess?
        >>
        >>Thank you Olympiada for this topic.
        >>
        >>Rdr. Alexander
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To learn more about reader services, see:
        > http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm
        >
        > To access this lists archives, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
        > ogion.htm
        >
        > To access this lists archives, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >

        --
        Deacon Michael Bishop
        PO Box 23485
        Baltimore MD 21213-5485
        http://www.Michael-Bishop.com

        See you at the Russian Festival
        17-19 October 2008
      • polychrony
        Properly, your question should be: What is the traditional position of the Church on women serving as readers? Because there are no women readers in
        Message 3 of 21 , Feb 2, 2008
          Properly, your question should be: "What is the traditional
          position of the Church on women serving as readers?"

          Because there are no women readers in Orthodox Christianity,
          just as there are no women priests.

          Those who look about and see examples of abuses, and then parlay
          those in to doctrinal conclusions, are simply understanding
          Orthodoxy in a myopia of modernism.

          Polychronios


          --- In orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Robinson"
          <stevenpaul4@...> wrote:
          >
          > I have been at a Greek cathedral where a woman gave the homily.
          > Rdr. Steven
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Reader Timothy Tadros
          > To: orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 5:44 PM
          > Subject: [orthodox-readers] Re: What is the traditional position
          of the Church on women readers?
          >
          >
          > Of course woem read in Church. What do women monastics do wait for
          > men to show up!
          > I have seen women give sermons only in the Antiochian Church when
          > they have Women's month or teen girls text must be approved by the
          > priest before hand. Now if they are bare headed yes I think this
          > poses a problem.
          > In ROCA we have had participation in the readings of the Epsitle if
          > two or a bilingual parish has then read in CS and Eng, even the hours
          > when a bishop is present.
          > Rdr Timothy Tadros
          >
          >
          > --- In orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph" <Joesamusn@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > I have seen women read the hours and Epistle as well, but only if
          > > the parish does not have a tonsured reader, ordained subdeacon or
          > > deacon. Or, if the parish reads the Epistle in two languages..ie
          > > reader reads in english and lay person (maybe a women) reads in
          > > Russian.
          > > I would think that there is no problem unless there is clergy
          > > (minor or major) in attendance, as this is what they are ordained
          > (or
          > > tonsured) to do.
          > >
          > > humbly
          > > sdcn joseph
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Langley"
          > > <alexlangley@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > As I've had a bit more sleep, I want to add to my prior reply that
          > > > first of all it is refreshing to have this new topic here.
          > > >
          > > > Also, at the Cathedral of the Protection of Mary in Minneapolis,
          > we
          > > > have women scheduled to read the hours and Epistle and other
          > > readings
          > > > as well as men (tonsured and untonsured). I'd be surprised if
          > there
          > > > ever were to be a problem with this, or that it ever would have
          > been
          > > > considered an innovation.
          > > >
          > > > This question made me think about deaconesses. When it was a
          > common
          > > > practice to ordain women to the holy diaconate, where
          > their "minor"
          > > > ranks for them like reader or sub-deaconess?
          > > >
          > > > Thank you Olympiada for this topic.
          > > >
          > > > Rdr. Alexander
          > > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Чтец Вn
          At St. Spiridon in Seattle, we read the Epistle in Russian. We read it in Slavonic once at our monthly Slavonic liturgy, but in Russian every Sunday. Not
          Message 4 of 21 , Feb 4, 2008
            At St. Spiridon in Seattle, we read the Epistle in Russian. We read it
            in Slavonic once at our monthly Slavonic liturgy, but in Russian every
            Sunday.

            Not being a native Russian speaker, I find reading in Russian more
            difficult than in Slavonic because there are no stress marks on the
            words with which I am unfamiliar. Also, when reading the Epistle in
            Russian I instinctively want to pronounce "g" when, in Russian, it
            should be a "v", i.e. the endings of adjectives in the genitive.

            Rdr. Vyacheslav

            >
            > Does any parish actually read the Epistle in Russian? In my
            experience,
            > in a Russian church we say "Russian" when we really mean Slavonic and
            in
            > a Serbian church we say "Serbian" when we actually mean Slavonic.
            I'm
            > very fussy about keeping the proper distinction between there is a
            > difference and I know a family who goes to a Protestant church
            because
            > they do not understand Slavonic but they do understand and speak
            Russian.
            >
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.