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Nativity services

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  • Joseph Rice
    Our mission has recently moved into our own space, after using a Roman Catholic hospital chapel for many years, so we are looking forward to having as full
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 4, 2007
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      Our mission has recently moved into our own space, after using a Roman Catholic hospital chapel for many years, so we are looking forward to having as full slate of services for Nativity this year. We do not have a full time priest, but are committed to doing them as Reader's Services.

      In most missions/churches in the Slavic tradition (OCA, ROCOR, MP), is it traditional to have a the Great Compline/Matins Vigil with Divine Liturgy following (say at midnight), or would Liturgy normally be served at the normal time (say 10 am) on the day of Nativity?

      Thanks in advance.

      Rdr Joseph Rice
      St John Chrysostom Orthodox Mission (OCA)
      Columbus, GA
      www.stjohnocachurch.org



      ---------------------------------
      Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Philip Sokolov
      ... Vigil (Great Compline/Matins) is served at the normal time (say 6 pm), and Divine Liturgy is served at the normal time (say 10 am). Enjoy! -- Philip
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 4, 2007
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        Joseph Rice wrote:

        > In most missions/churches in the Slavic tradition (OCA, ROCOR, MP), is it
        > traditional to have a the Great Compline/Matins Vigil with Divine Liturgy
        > following (say at midnight), or would Liturgy normally be served at the
        > normal time (say 10 am) on the day of Nativity?

        Vigil (Great Compline/Matins) is served at the normal time (say 6 pm), and
        Divine Liturgy is served at the normal time (say 10 am).

        Enjoy!
        --

        Philip Sokolov
      • Rd. Andreas MacLean
        Since the Nativity falls on a Tuesday this year, Greek practice is to have Matins and the Royal Hours on the morning of Dec. 24, followed by the Vesperal
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 4, 2007
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          Since the Nativity falls on a Tuesday this year, Greek practice is to have
          Matins and the Royal Hours on the morning of Dec. 24, followed by the
          Vesperal Divine Liturgy of St. Basil the Great. On the morning of Dec. 25,
          you would serve Matins followed by the Divine Liturgy of St. John
          Chrysostom.

          If you wanted to serve the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom at "midnight," you
          would need to ensure that the Vesperal Divine Liturgy (obviously preceded by
          Matins and the Royal Hours) began no later than 9:00 AM on Monday.

          Hope this gives you an idea of what other jurisdictions will follow.

          Reader Andreas


          On 12/4/07, Joseph Rice <dondoncal@...> wrote:
          >
          > Our mission has recently moved into our own space, after using a Roman
          > Catholic hospital chapel for many years, so we are looking forward to having
          > as full slate of services for Nativity this year. We do not have a full time
          > priest, but are committed to doing them as Reader's Services.
          >
          > In most missions/churches in the Slavic tradition (OCA, ROCOR, MP), is it
          > traditional to have a the Great Compline/Matins Vigil with Divine Liturgy
          > following (say at midnight), or would Liturgy normally be served at the
          > normal time (say 10 am) on the day of Nativity?
          >
          > Thanks in advance.
          >
          > Rdr Joseph Rice
          > St John Chrysostom Orthodox Mission (OCA)
          > Columbus, GA
          > www.stjohnocachurch.org
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Philip Sokolov
          ... Parish practice (OCA/ROCOR/MP) would be something like this: Sunday, December 23: Royal Hours - 6pm Monday, December 24: Vesperal Divine Liturgy (St Basil)
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 4, 2007
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            Joseph Rice wrote:

            > In most missions/churches in the Slavic tradition (OCA, ROCOR, MP), is it
            > traditional to have a the Great Compline/Matins Vigil with Divine Liturgy
            > following (say at midnight), or would Liturgy normally be served at the
            > normal time (say 10 am) on the day of Nativity?

            Parish practice (OCA/ROCOR/MP) would be something like this:

            Sunday, December 23:
            Royal Hours - 6pm

            Monday, December 24:
            Vesperal Divine Liturgy (St Basil) - 10am
            Vigil (Great Compline/Matins) - 6pm

            Sunday, December 25:
            Divine Liturgy (St. John) - 10am
            --

            Philip Sokolov
          • Philip Sokolov
            ... Parish practice (OCA/ROCOR/MP) would be something like this: Sunday, December 23: Royal Hours - 6pm Monday, December 24: Vesperal Divine Liturgy (St Basil)
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 4, 2007
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              Joseph Rice wrote:

              > In most missions/churches in the Slavic tradition (OCA, ROCOR, MP),
              > is it traditional to have a the Great Compline/Matins Vigil with
              > Divine Liturgy following (say at midnight), or would Liturgy
              > normally be served at the normal time (say 10 am) on the day of
              > Nativity?

              Parish practice (OCA/ROCOR/MP) would be something like this:

              Sunday, December 23:
              Royal Hours - 6pm

              Monday, December 24:
              Vesperal Divine Liturgy (St Basil) - 10am
              Vigil (Great Compline/Matins) - 6pm

              Sunday, December 25:
              Divine Liturgy (St. John) - 10am
              --

              Philip Sokolov
            • Deacon Michael Bishop
              I have never seen nor heard of Royal Hours being served in the evening. If the Nativity (or Theophany) falls on a Sunday or Monday, the Royal Hours are served
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 4, 2007
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                I have never seen nor heard of Royal Hours being served in the evening.
                If the Nativity (or Theophany) falls on a Sunday or Monday, the Royal
                Hours are served on Friday morning. Liturgy of St. Basil is served on
                the feast. Otherwise a Vesperal Divine Liturgy of St. Basil is served
                on the eve of the feast.

                If the Nativity of Theophany falls on a Tuesday, the Royal Hours are
                served on Monday morning. They should be served before the Vesperal
                Divine Liturgy.

                This has been my experience. I know of midnight Divine Liturgy for the
                feast only in the Byzantine practice.

                Deacon Michael

                Philip Sokolov wrote:
                > Joseph Rice wrote:
                >
                >
                >>In most missions/churches in the Slavic tradition (OCA, ROCOR, MP), is it
                >>traditional to have a the Great Compline/Matins Vigil with Divine Liturgy
                >>following (say at midnight), or would Liturgy normally be served at the
                >>normal time (say 10 am) on the day of Nativity?
                >
                >
                > Parish practice (OCA/ROCOR/MP) would be something like this:
                >
                > Sunday, December 23:
                > Royal Hours - 6pm
                >
                > Monday, December 24:
                > Vesperal Divine Liturgy (St Basil) - 10am
                > Vigil (Great Compline/Matins) - 6pm
                >
                > Sunday, December 25:
                > Divine Liturgy (St. John) - 10am
                > --
                >
                > Philip Sokolov
                >
                >
                >
                > To learn more about reader services, see:
                > http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm
                >
                > To access this lists archives, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                > ogion.htm
                >
                > To access this lists archives, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >

                --
                Deacon Michael Bishop
                PO Box 23485
                Baltimore MD 21213-5485
                http://www.Michael-Bishop.com

                See you at the Russian Festival
                17-19 October 2008
              • Philip Sokolov
                You are correct. Technically it should be: Monday, December 24: 10am: Royal Hours (First, Third, Sixth, Ninth, Typika), Vespers combined with the Liturgy of
                Message 7 of 15 , Dec 4, 2007
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                  You are correct. Technically it should be:

                  Monday, December 24:
                  10am: Royal Hours (First, Third, Sixth, Ninth, Typika), Vespers
                  combined with the Liturgy of St. Basil.
                  6pm: Great Compline, Great Matins, First Hour.

                  Tuesday, December 25:
                  10am: Third and Sixth Hours, Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.

                  But that makes for a very long service Monday morning!

                  --Philip Sokolov



                  Deacon Michael Bishop wrote:
                  > I have never seen nor heard of Royal Hours being served in the evening.
                  > If the Nativity (or Theophany) falls on a Sunday or Monday, the Royal
                  > Hours are served on Friday morning. Liturgy of St. Basil is served on
                  > the feast. Otherwise a Vesperal Divine Liturgy of St. Basil is served
                  > on the eve of the feast.
                  >
                  > If the Nativity of Theophany falls on a Tuesday, the Royal Hours are
                  > served on Monday morning. They should be served before the Vesperal
                  > Divine Liturgy.
                  >
                  > This has been my experience. I know of midnight Divine Liturgy for the
                  > feast only in the Byzantine practice.
                  >
                  > Deacon Michael
                  >
                  > Philip Sokolov wrote:
                  >> Joseph Rice wrote:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>> In most missions/churches in the Slavic tradition (OCA, ROCOR, MP), is it
                  >>> traditional to have a the Great Compline/Matins Vigil with Divine Liturgy
                  >>> following (say at midnight), or would Liturgy normally be served at the
                  >>> normal time (say 10 am) on the day of Nativity?
                  >>
                  >> Parish practice (OCA/ROCOR/MP) would be something like this:
                  >>
                  >> Sunday, December 23:
                  >> Royal Hours - 6pm
                  >>
                  >> Monday, December 24:
                  >> Vesperal Divine Liturgy (St Basil) - 10am
                  >> Vigil (Great Compline/Matins) - 6pm
                  >>
                  >> Sunday, December 25:
                  >> Divine Liturgy (St. John) - 10am
                  >> --
                  >>
                  >> Philip Sokolov
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> To learn more about reader services, see:
                  >> http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm
                  >>
                  >> To access this lists archives, go to:
                  >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                  >> ogion.htm
                  >>
                  >> To access this lists archives, go to:
                  >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                  >>
                  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                • Deacon Michael Bishop
                  Yes, I agree that it does make for a very, very long service Monday morning and perhaps this is probably why most parishes do not do the Royal Hours. It is
                  Message 8 of 15 , Dec 4, 2007
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                    Yes, I agree that it does make for a very, very long service Monday
                    morning and perhaps this is probably why most parishes do not do the
                    Royal Hours. It is especially hard on a priest who does not have
                    another priest or a deacon to assist him.

                    I've been in situations where I was the choir and there was one priest
                    and two or three people at most in the congregation on the Eve of the
                    Nativity. This would had indeed been a very, very, very long service.

                    For those on the old calendar this year, the feast of the Nativity falls
                    on a Monday and the Royal Hours are served on Friday. The Liturgy of
                    St. John is served on Sunday and the Liturgy of St. Basil is served on
                    Monday if memory serves me correctly. On Sunday evening we do Great
                    Compline, Matins, and First Hour -- vigil.

                    And don't forget the Holy Supper.

                    Deacon Michael

                    Philip Sokolov wrote:
                    > You are correct. Technically it should be:
                    >
                    > Monday, December 24:
                    > 10am: Royal Hours (First, Third, Sixth, Ninth, Typika), Vespers
                    > combined with the Liturgy of St. Basil.
                    > 6pm: Great Compline, Great Matins, First Hour.
                    >
                    > Tuesday, December 25:
                    > 10am: Third and Sixth Hours, Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.
                    >
                    > But that makes for a very long service Monday morning!
                    >
                    > --Philip Sokolov
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Deacon Michael Bishop wrote:
                    >
                    >>I have never seen nor heard of Royal Hours being served in the evening.
                    >> If the Nativity (or Theophany) falls on a Sunday or Monday, the Royal
                    >>Hours are served on Friday morning. Liturgy of St. Basil is served on
                    >>the feast. Otherwise a Vesperal Divine Liturgy of St. Basil is served
                    >>on the eve of the feast.
                    >>
                    >>If the Nativity of Theophany falls on a Tuesday, the Royal Hours are
                    >>served on Monday morning. They should be served before the Vesperal
                    >>Divine Liturgy.
                    >>
                    >>This has been my experience. I know of midnight Divine Liturgy for the
                    >>feast only in the Byzantine practice.
                    >>
                    >>Deacon Michael
                    >>
                    >>Philip Sokolov wrote:
                    >>
                    >>>Joseph Rice wrote:
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>>In most missions/churches in the Slavic tradition (OCA, ROCOR, MP), is it
                    >>>>traditional to have a the Great Compline/Matins Vigil with Divine Liturgy
                    >>>>following (say at midnight), or would Liturgy normally be served at the
                    >>>>normal time (say 10 am) on the day of Nativity?
                    >>>
                    >>>Parish practice (OCA/ROCOR/MP) would be something like this:
                    >>>
                    >>>Sunday, December 23:
                    >>>Royal Hours - 6pm
                    >>>
                    >>>Monday, December 24:
                    >>>Vesperal Divine Liturgy (St Basil) - 10am
                    >>>Vigil (Great Compline/Matins) - 6pm
                    >>>
                    >>>Sunday, December 25:
                    >>>Divine Liturgy (St. John) - 10am
                    >>>--
                    >>>
                    >>>Philip Sokolov
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>To learn more about reader services, see:
                    >>>http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm
                    >>>
                    >>>To access this lists archives, go to:
                    >>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                    >>>ogion.htm
                    >>>
                    >>>To access this lists archives, go to:
                    >>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                    >>>
                    >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > To learn more about reader services, see:
                    > http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm
                    >
                    > To access this lists archives, go to:
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                    > ogion.htm
                    >
                    > To access this lists archives, go to:
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    --
                    Deacon Michael Bishop
                    PO Box 23485
                    Baltimore MD 21213-5485
                    http://www.Michael-Bishop.com

                    See you at the Russian Festival
                    17-19 October 2008
                  • Rd. Andreas MacLean
                    Actually, and not wanting to start a major disagreement, there is little, if anything, for a deacon to do at the Service of the Royal Hours. The whole service,
                    Message 9 of 15 , Dec 4, 2007
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                      Actually, and not wanting to start a major disagreement, there is little, if
                      anything, for a deacon to do at the Service of the Royal Hours. The whole
                      service, except for the priest's prayer at the end of each Hour, is either
                      read by the reader or chanted by the choir. I believe the Typikon directs
                      all Scriptural readings to be done by the reader.

                      I think it more appropriate to pity the reader or chanter who has no one to
                      assist him!

                      The Hours are like Compline and Midnight Service and, thus, are an
                      "exchange" between priest and reader.

                      In Christ,
                      Reader Andreas


                      On 12/4/07, Deacon Michael Bishop <Photo@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Yes, I agree that it does make for a very, very long service Monday
                      > morning and perhaps this is probably why most parishes do not do the
                      > Royal Hours. It is especially hard on a priest who does not have
                      > another priest or a deacon to assist him.
                      >
                      > I've been in situations where I was the choir and there was one priest
                      > and two or three people at most in the congregation on the Eve of the
                      > Nativity. This would had indeed been a very, very, very long service.
                      >
                      > For those on the old calendar this year, the feast of the Nativity falls
                      > on a Monday and the Royal Hours are served on Friday. The Liturgy of
                      > St. John is served on Sunday and the Liturgy of St. Basil is served on
                      > Monday if memory serves me correctly. On Sunday evening we do Great
                      > Compline, Matins, and First Hour -- vigil.
                      >
                      > And don't forget the Holy Supper.
                      >
                      > Deacon Michael
                      >
                      > Philip Sokolov wrote:
                      > > You are correct. Technically it should be:
                      > >
                      > > Monday, December 24:
                      > > 10am: Royal Hours (First, Third, Sixth, Ninth, Typika), Vespers
                      > > combined with the Liturgy of St. Basil.
                      > > 6pm: Great Compline, Great Matins, First Hour.
                      > >
                      > > Tuesday, December 25:
                      > > 10am: Third and Sixth Hours, Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.
                      > >
                      > > But that makes for a very long service Monday morning!
                      > >
                      > > --Philip Sokolov
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Deacon Michael Bishop wrote:
                      > >
                      > >>I have never seen nor heard of Royal Hours being served in the evening.
                      > >> If the Nativity (or Theophany) falls on a Sunday or Monday, the Royal
                      > >>Hours are served on Friday morning. Liturgy of St. Basil is served on
                      > >>the feast. Otherwise a Vesperal Divine Liturgy of St. Basil is served
                      > >>on the eve of the feast.
                      > >>
                      > >>If the Nativity of Theophany falls on a Tuesday, the Royal Hours are
                      > >>served on Monday morning. They should be served before the Vesperal
                      > >>Divine Liturgy.
                      > >>
                      > >>This has been my experience. I know of midnight Divine Liturgy for the
                      > >>feast only in the Byzantine practice.
                      > >>
                      > >>Deacon Michael
                      > >>
                      > >>Philip Sokolov wrote:
                      > >>
                      > >>>Joseph Rice wrote:
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>>In most missions/churches in the Slavic tradition (OCA, ROCOR, MP), is
                      > it
                      > >>>>traditional to have a the Great Compline/Matins Vigil with Divine
                      > Liturgy
                      > >>>>following (say at midnight), or would Liturgy normally be served at
                      > the
                      > >>>>normal time (say 10 am) on the day of Nativity?
                      > >>>
                      > >>>Parish practice (OCA/ROCOR/MP) would be something like this:
                      > >>>
                      > >>>Sunday, December 23:
                      > >>>Royal Hours - 6pm
                      > >>>
                      > >>>Monday, December 24:
                      > >>>Vesperal Divine Liturgy (St Basil) - 10am
                      > >>>Vigil (Great Compline/Matins) - 6pm
                      > >>>
                      > >>>Sunday, December 25:
                      > >>>Divine Liturgy (St. John) - 10am
                      > >>>--
                      > >>>
                      > >>>Philip Sokolov
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>To learn more about reader services, see:
                      > >>>http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm
                      > >>>
                      > >>>To access this lists archives, go to:
                      > >>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                      > >>>ogion.htm
                      > >>>
                      > >>>To access this lists archives, go to:
                      > >>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                      > >>>
                      > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > To learn more about reader services, see:
                      > > http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm
                      > >
                      > > To access this lists archives, go to:
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                      > > ogion.htm
                      > >
                      > > To access this lists archives, go to:
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > --
                      > Deacon Michael Bishop
                      > PO Box 23485
                      > Baltimore MD 21213-5485
                      > http://www.Michael-Bishop.com <http://www.michael-bishop.com/>
                      >
                      > See you at the Russian Festival
                      > 17-19 October 2008
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Deacon Michael Bishop
                      True, but the priest has to stand there the whole time and then serve the Liturgy and then Vigil that evening. This is where the deacon makes a major
                      Message 10 of 15 , Dec 4, 2007
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                        True, but the priest has to stand there the whole time and then serve
                        the Liturgy and then Vigil that evening. This is where the deacon makes
                        a major difference. I think that the deacon does do the censing before
                        each Gospel at the Royal Hours.

                        On Holy Friday last year, the psalms were divided among the choir
                        members who participated and the Old Testament readings and Epistles
                        were divided between our two tonsured readers. I forgot how we fit our
                        untonsured reader into this.

                        This year I think that the priest will read the Gospels, of course, I
                        will probably read the Epistles, and Reader Joseph will probably read
                        the Old Testament readings and Joseph will alternate with the choir. I
                        do not think that we are doing Royal Hours for Nativity nor Theophany.

                        Deacon Michael

                        Rd. Andreas MacLean wrote:
                        > Actually, and not wanting to start a major disagreement, there is little, if
                        > anything, for a deacon to do at the Service of the Royal Hours. The whole
                        > service, except for the priest's prayer at the end of each Hour, is either
                        > read by the reader or chanted by the choir. I believe the Typikon directs
                        > all Scriptural readings to be done by the reader.
                        >
                        > I think it more appropriate to pity the reader or chanter who has no one to
                        > assist him!
                        >
                        > The Hours are like Compline and Midnight Service and, thus, are an
                        > "exchange" between priest and reader.
                        >
                        > In Christ,
                        > Reader Andreas
                        >
                        >
                        > On 12/4/07, Deacon Michael Bishop <Photo@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >> Yes, I agree that it does make for a very, very long service Monday
                        >>morning and perhaps this is probably why most parishes do not do the
                        >>Royal Hours. It is especially hard on a priest who does not have
                        >>another priest or a deacon to assist him.
                        >>
                        >>I've been in situations where I was the choir and there was one priest
                        >>and two or three people at most in the congregation on the Eve of the
                        >>Nativity. This would had indeed been a very, very, very long service.
                        >>
                        >>For those on the old calendar this year, the feast of the Nativity falls
                        >>on a Monday and the Royal Hours are served on Friday. The Liturgy of
                        >>St. John is served on Sunday and the Liturgy of St. Basil is served on
                        >>Monday if memory serves me correctly. On Sunday evening we do Great
                        >>Compline, Matins, and First Hour -- vigil.
                        >>
                        >>And don't forget the Holy Supper.
                        >>
                        >>Deacon Michael
                        >>
                        >>Philip Sokolov wrote:
                        >>
                        >>>You are correct. Technically it should be:
                        >>>
                        >>>Monday, December 24:
                        >>>10am: Royal Hours (First, Third, Sixth, Ninth, Typika), Vespers
                        >>>combined with the Liturgy of St. Basil.
                        >>>6pm: Great Compline, Great Matins, First Hour.
                        >>>
                        >>>Tuesday, December 25:
                        >>>10am: Third and Sixth Hours, Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.
                        >>>
                        >>>But that makes for a very long service Monday morning!
                        >>>
                        >>>--Philip Sokolov
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>Deacon Michael Bishop wrote:
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>>I have never seen nor heard of Royal Hours being served in the evening.
                        >>>>If the Nativity (or Theophany) falls on a Sunday or Monday, the Royal
                        >>>>Hours are served on Friday morning. Liturgy of St. Basil is served on
                        >>>>the feast. Otherwise a Vesperal Divine Liturgy of St. Basil is served
                        >>>>on the eve of the feast.
                        >>>>
                        >>>>If the Nativity of Theophany falls on a Tuesday, the Royal Hours are
                        >>>>served on Monday morning. They should be served before the Vesperal
                        >>>>Divine Liturgy.
                        >>>>
                        >>>>This has been my experience. I know of midnight Divine Liturgy for the
                        >>>>feast only in the Byzantine practice.
                        >>>>
                        >>>>Deacon Michael
                        >>>>
                        >>>>Philip Sokolov wrote:
                        >>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>>>Joseph Rice wrote:
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>>In most missions/churches in the Slavic tradition (OCA, ROCOR, MP), is
                        >>
                        >>it
                        >>
                        >>>>>>traditional to have a the Great Compline/Matins Vigil with Divine
                        >>
                        >>Liturgy
                        >>
                        >>>>>>following (say at midnight), or would Liturgy normally be served at
                        >>
                        >>the
                        >>
                        >>>>>>normal time (say 10 am) on the day of Nativity?
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>Parish practice (OCA/ROCOR/MP) would be something like this:
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>Sunday, December 23:
                        >>>>>Royal Hours - 6pm
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>Monday, December 24:
                        >>>>>Vesperal Divine Liturgy (St Basil) - 10am
                        >>>>>Vigil (Great Compline/Matins) - 6pm
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>Sunday, December 25:
                        >>>>>Divine Liturgy (St. John) - 10am
                        >>>>>--
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>Philip Sokolov
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>To learn more about reader services, see:
                        >>>>>http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>To access this lists archives, go to:
                        >>>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                        >>>>>ogion.htm
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>To access this lists archives, go to:
                        >>>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>>
                        >>>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>To learn more about reader services, see:
                        >>>http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm
                        >>>
                        >>>To access this lists archives, go to:
                        >>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                        >>>ogion.htm
                        >>>
                        >>>To access this lists archives, go to:
                        >>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                        >>>
                        >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >>
                        >>--
                        >>Deacon Michael Bishop
                        >>PO Box 23485
                        >>Baltimore MD 21213-5485
                        >>http://www.Michael-Bishop.com <http://www.michael-bishop.com/>
                        >>
                        >>See you at the Russian Festival
                        >>17-19 October 2008
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To learn more about reader services, see:
                        > http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm
                        >
                        > To access this lists archives, go to:
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                        > ogion.htm
                        >
                        > To access this lists archives, go to:
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        --
                        Deacon Michael Bishop
                        PO Box 23485
                        Baltimore MD 21213-5485
                        http://www.Michael-Bishop.com

                        See you at the Russian Festival
                        17-19 October 2008
                      • Rd. Andreas MacLean
                        Our priests stay in the Altar for most of the service, coming out for the prayers at the end of each Hour and the censing at the beginning. Our deacon stands,
                        Message 11 of 15 , Dec 4, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Our priests stay in the Altar for most of the service, coming out for the
                          prayers at the end of each Hour and the censing at the beginning. Our deacon
                          stands, vested in exorasso (and maybe orarion, can't remember) at the kliros
                          and serves as a reader. The readings are assigned to the "reader," but
                          as Father Michael says, are generally divided amongst all the serving
                          clergy.

                          The Royal Hours are a "big" deal in the Greek Orthodox Church, and I've
                          never heard of one of our parishes skipping them. Actually, I believe each
                          Metropolitan requires them in his protocols to the parish priests.

                          Nativity pales in comparison to Holy Friday, of course! I stay at church
                          from 9 AM through midnight, with a few hours break at noon and early
                          evening. After a 4-5 hour service the night before.

                          If you don't like long services, don't become a reader (or deacon, priest or
                          bishop)!


                          On 12/4/07, Deacon Michael Bishop <Photo@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > True, but the priest has to stand there the whole time and then serve
                          > the Liturgy and then Vigil that evening. This is where the deacon makes
                          > a major difference. I think that the deacon does do the censing before
                          > each Gospel at the Royal Hours.
                          >
                          > On Holy Friday last year, the psalms were divided among the choir
                          > members who participated and the Old Testament readings and Epistles
                          > were divided between our two tonsured readers. I forgot how we fit our
                          > untonsured reader into this.
                          >
                          > This year I think that the priest will read the Gospels, of course, I
                          > will probably read the Epistles, and Reader Joseph will probably read
                          > the Old Testament readings and Joseph will alternate with the choir. I
                          > do not think that we are doing Royal Hours for Nativity nor Theophany.
                          >
                          > Deacon Michael
                          >
                          > Rd. Andreas MacLean wrote:
                          > > Actually, and not wanting to start a major disagreement, there is
                          > little, if
                          > > anything, for a deacon to do at the Service of the Royal Hours. The
                          > whole
                          > > service, except for the priest's prayer at the end of each Hour, is
                          > either
                          > > read by the reader or chanted by the choir. I believe the Typikon
                          > directs
                          > > all Scriptural readings to be done by the reader.
                          > >
                          > > I think it more appropriate to pity the reader or chanter who has no one
                          > to
                          > > assist him!
                          > >
                          > > The Hours are like Compline and Midnight Service and, thus, are an
                          > > "exchange" between priest and reader.
                          > >
                          > > In Christ,
                          > > Reader Andreas
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > On 12/4/07, Deacon Michael Bishop <Photo@...<Photo%40deaconmichael.com>>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > >> Yes, I agree that it does make for a very, very long service Monday
                          > >>morning and perhaps this is probably why most parishes do not do the
                          > >>Royal Hours. It is especially hard on a priest who does not have
                          > >>another priest or a deacon to assist him.
                          > >>
                          > >>I've been in situations where I was the choir and there was one priest
                          > >>and two or three people at most in the congregation on the Eve of the
                          > >>Nativity. This would had indeed been a very, very, very long service.
                          > >>
                          > >>For those on the old calendar this year, the feast of the Nativity falls
                          > >>on a Monday and the Royal Hours are served on Friday. The Liturgy of
                          > >>St. John is served on Sunday and the Liturgy of St. Basil is served on
                          > >>Monday if memory serves me correctly. On Sunday evening we do Great
                          > >>Compline, Matins, and First Hour -- vigil.
                          > >>
                          > >>And don't forget the Holy Supper.
                          > >>
                          > >>Deacon Michael
                          > >>
                          > >>Philip Sokolov wrote:
                          > >>
                          > >>>You are correct. Technically it should be:
                          > >>>
                          > >>>Monday, December 24:
                          > >>>10am: Royal Hours (First, Third, Sixth, Ninth, Typika), Vespers
                          > >>>combined with the Liturgy of St. Basil.
                          > >>>6pm: Great Compline, Great Matins, First Hour.
                          > >>>
                          > >>>Tuesday, December 25:
                          > >>>10am: Third and Sixth Hours, Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.
                          > >>>
                          > >>>But that makes for a very long service Monday morning!
                          > >>>
                          > >>>--Philip Sokolov
                          > >>>
                          > >>>
                          > >>>
                          > >>>Deacon Michael Bishop wrote:
                          > >>>
                          > >>>
                          > >>>>I have never seen nor heard of Royal Hours being served in the
                          > evening.
                          > >>>>If the Nativity (or Theophany) falls on a Sunday or Monday, the Royal
                          > >>>>Hours are served on Friday morning. Liturgy of St. Basil is served on
                          > >>>>the feast. Otherwise a Vesperal Divine Liturgy of St. Basil is served
                          > >>>>on the eve of the feast.
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>>If the Nativity of Theophany falls on a Tuesday, the Royal Hours are
                          > >>>>served on Monday morning. They should be served before the Vesperal
                          > >>>>Divine Liturgy.
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>>This has been my experience. I know of midnight Divine Liturgy for the
                          > >>>>feast only in the Byzantine practice.
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>>Deacon Michael
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>>Philip Sokolov wrote:
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>>>Joseph Rice wrote:
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>>In most missions/churches in the Slavic tradition (OCA, ROCOR, MP),
                          > is
                          > >>
                          > >>it
                          > >>
                          > >>>>>>traditional to have a the Great Compline/Matins Vigil with Divine
                          > >>
                          > >>Liturgy
                          > >>
                          > >>>>>>following (say at midnight), or would Liturgy normally be served at
                          > >>
                          > >>the
                          > >>
                          > >>>>>>normal time (say 10 am) on the day of Nativity?
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>Parish practice (OCA/ROCOR/MP) would be something like this:
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>Sunday, December 23:
                          > >>>>>Royal Hours - 6pm
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>Monday, December 24:
                          > >>>>>Vesperal Divine Liturgy (St Basil) - 10am
                          > >>>>>Vigil (Great Compline/Matins) - 6pm
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>Sunday, December 25:
                          > >>>>>Divine Liturgy (St. John) - 10am
                          > >>>>>--
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>Philip Sokolov
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>To learn more about reader services, see:
                          > >>>>>http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>To access this lists archives, go to:
                          > >>>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                          > >>>>>ogion.htm
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>To access this lists archives, go to:
                          > >>>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>
                          > >>>
                          > >>>To learn more about reader services, see:
                          > >>>http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm
                          > >>>
                          > >>>To access this lists archives, go to:
                          > >>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                          > >>>ogion.htm
                          > >>>
                          > >>>To access this lists archives, go to:
                          > >>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                          > >>>
                          > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >>>
                          > >>>
                          > >>>
                          > >>>
                          > >>>
                          > >>
                          > >>--
                          > >>Deacon Michael Bishop
                          > >>PO Box 23485
                          > >>Baltimore MD 21213-5485
                          > >>http://www.Michael-Bishop.com <http://www.michael-bishop.com/> <
                          > http://www.michael-bishop.com/>
                          > >>
                          > >>See you at the Russian Festival
                          > >>17-19 October 2008
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > To learn more about reader services, see:
                          > > http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm
                          > >
                          > > To access this lists archives, go to:
                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                          > > ogion.htm
                          > >
                          > > To access this lists archives, go to:
                          > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                          > >
                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          > --
                          > Deacon Michael Bishop
                          > PO Box 23485
                          > Baltimore MD 21213-5485
                          > http://www.Michael-Bishop.com <http://www.michael-bishop.com/>
                          >
                          > See you at the Russian Festival
                          > 17-19 October 2008
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Deacon Michael Bishop
                          My experience in the Russian style is for everything to be done in the middle of the temple and the priest is out there. We have a stand in the middle of the
                          Message 12 of 15 , Dec 4, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            My experience in the Russian style is for everything to be done in the
                            middle of the temple and the priest is out there. We have a stand in
                            the middle of the front and the priest and vested Readers stand there.
                            The choir is on the kliros. Anybody else is in the pews.

                            I'm sure that I've attended Royal Hours at Holy Cross in the past, but I
                            cannot remember. It would had been when I was on the OCA and the local
                            parish did not do Royal Hours. So I do not remember how they did it.

                            Question, if you do not have a priest, do you just skip the Gospel
                            readings or do somebody in the parish read them?

                            Deacon Michael

                            Rd. Andreas MacLean wrote:
                            > Our priests stay in the Altar for most of the service, coming out for the
                            > prayers at the end of each Hour and the censing at the beginning. Our deacon
                            > stands, vested in exorasso (and maybe orarion, can't remember) at the kliros
                            > and serves as a reader. The readings are assigned to the "reader," but
                            > as Father Michael says, are generally divided amongst all the serving
                            > clergy.
                            >
                            > The Royal Hours are a "big" deal in the Greek Orthodox Church, and I've
                            > never heard of one of our parishes skipping them. Actually, I believe each
                            > Metropolitan requires them in his protocols to the parish priests.
                            >
                            > Nativity pales in comparison to Holy Friday, of course! I stay at church
                            > from 9 AM through midnight, with a few hours break at noon and early
                            > evening. After a 4-5 hour service the night before.
                            >
                            > If you don't like long services, don't become a reader (or deacon, priest or
                            > bishop)!
                            >
                            >
                            > On 12/4/07, Deacon Michael Bishop <Photo@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >> True, but the priest has to stand there the whole time and then serve
                            >>the Liturgy and then Vigil that evening. This is where the deacon makes
                            >>a major difference. I think that the deacon does do the censing before
                            >>each Gospel at the Royal Hours.
                            >>
                            >>On Holy Friday last year, the psalms were divided among the choir
                            >>members who participated and the Old Testament readings and Epistles
                            >>were divided between our two tonsured readers. I forgot how we fit our
                            >>untonsured reader into this.
                            >>
                            >>This year I think that the priest will read the Gospels, of course, I
                            >>will probably read the Epistles, and Reader Joseph will probably read
                            >>the Old Testament readings and Joseph will alternate with the choir. I
                            >>do not think that we are doing Royal Hours for Nativity nor Theophany.
                            >>
                            >>Deacon Michael
                            >>
                            >>Rd. Andreas MacLean wrote:
                            >>
                            >>>Actually, and not wanting to start a major disagreement, there is
                            >>
                            >>little, if
                            >>
                            >>>anything, for a deacon to do at the Service of the Royal Hours. The
                            >>
                            >>whole
                            >>
                            >>>service, except for the priest's prayer at the end of each Hour, is
                            >>
                            >>either
                            >>
                            >>>read by the reader or chanted by the choir. I believe the Typikon
                            >>
                            >>directs
                            >>
                            >>>all Scriptural readings to be done by the reader.
                            >>>
                            >>>I think it more appropriate to pity the reader or chanter who has no one
                            >>
                            >>to
                            >>
                            >>>assist him!
                            >>>
                            >>>The Hours are like Compline and Midnight Service and, thus, are an
                            >>>"exchange" between priest and reader.
                            >>>
                            >>>In Christ,
                            >>>Reader Andreas
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>>On 12/4/07, Deacon Michael Bishop <Photo@...<Photo%40deaconmichael.com>>
                            >>
                            >>wrote:
                            >>
                            >>>>Yes, I agree that it does make for a very, very long service Monday
                            >>>>morning and perhaps this is probably why most parishes do not do the
                            >>>>Royal Hours. It is especially hard on a priest who does not have
                            >>>>another priest or a deacon to assist him.
                            >>>>
                            >>>>I've been in situations where I was the choir and there was one priest
                            >>>>and two or three people at most in the congregation on the Eve of the
                            >>>>Nativity. This would had indeed been a very, very, very long service.
                            >>>>
                            >>>>For those on the old calendar this year, the feast of the Nativity falls
                            >>>>on a Monday and the Royal Hours are served on Friday. The Liturgy of
                            >>>>St. John is served on Sunday and the Liturgy of St. Basil is served on
                            >>>>Monday if memory serves me correctly. On Sunday evening we do Great
                            >>>>Compline, Matins, and First Hour -- vigil.
                            >>>>
                            >>>>And don't forget the Holy Supper.
                            >>>>
                            >>>>Deacon Michael
                            >>>>
                            >>>>Philip Sokolov wrote:
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>>You are correct. Technically it should be:
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>Monday, December 24:
                            >>>>>10am: Royal Hours (First, Third, Sixth, Ninth, Typika), Vespers
                            >>>>>combined with the Liturgy of St. Basil.
                            >>>>>6pm: Great Compline, Great Matins, First Hour.
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>Tuesday, December 25:
                            >>>>>10am: Third and Sixth Hours, Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>But that makes for a very long service Monday morning!
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>--Philip Sokolov
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>Deacon Michael Bishop wrote:
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>>I have never seen nor heard of Royal Hours being served in the
                            >>
                            >>evening.
                            >>
                            >>>>>>If the Nativity (or Theophany) falls on a Sunday or Monday, the Royal
                            >>>>>>Hours are served on Friday morning. Liturgy of St. Basil is served on
                            >>>>>>the feast. Otherwise a Vesperal Divine Liturgy of St. Basil is served
                            >>>>>>on the eve of the feast.
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>>If the Nativity of Theophany falls on a Tuesday, the Royal Hours are
                            >>>>>>served on Monday morning. They should be served before the Vesperal
                            >>>>>>Divine Liturgy.
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>>This has been my experience. I know of midnight Divine Liturgy for the
                            >>>>>>feast only in the Byzantine practice.
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>>Deacon Michael
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>>Philip Sokolov wrote:
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>>>Joseph Rice wrote:
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>>>In most missions/churches in the Slavic tradition (OCA, ROCOR, MP),
                            >>
                            >>is
                            >>
                            >>>>it
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>>>>>traditional to have a the Great Compline/Matins Vigil with Divine
                            >>>>
                            >>>>Liturgy
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>>>>>following (say at midnight), or would Liturgy normally be served at
                            >>>>
                            >>>>the
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>>>>>normal time (say 10 am) on the day of Nativity?
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>>Parish practice (OCA/ROCOR/MP) would be something like this:
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>>Sunday, December 23:
                            >>>>>>>Royal Hours - 6pm
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>>Monday, December 24:
                            >>>>>>>Vesperal Divine Liturgy (St Basil) - 10am
                            >>>>>>>Vigil (Great Compline/Matins) - 6pm
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>>Sunday, December 25:
                            >>>>>>>Divine Liturgy (St. John) - 10am
                            >>>>>>>--
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>>Philip Sokolov
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>>To learn more about reader services, see:
                            >>>>>>>http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>>To access this lists archives, go to:
                            >>>>>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                            >>>>>>>ogion.htm
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>>To access this lists archives, go to:
                            >>>>>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>To learn more about reader services, see:
                            >>>>>http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>To access this lists archives, go to:
                            >>>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                            >>>>>ogion.htm
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>To access this lists archives, go to:
                            >>>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>--
                            >>>>Deacon Michael Bishop
                            >>>>PO Box 23485
                            >>>>Baltimore MD 21213-5485
                            >>>>http://www.Michael-Bishop.com <http://www.michael-bishop.com/> <
                            >>
                            >>http://www.michael-bishop.com/>
                            >>
                            >>>>See you at the Russian Festival
                            >>>>17-19 October 2008
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>>To learn more about reader services, see:
                            >>>http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm
                            >>>
                            >>>To access this lists archives, go to:
                            >>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                            >>>ogion.htm
                            >>>
                            >>>To access this lists archives, go to:
                            >>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                            >>>
                            >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>
                            >>--
                            >>Deacon Michael Bishop
                            >>PO Box 23485
                            >>Baltimore MD 21213-5485
                            >>http://www.Michael-Bishop.com <http://www.michael-bishop.com/>
                            >>
                            >>See you at the Russian Festival
                            >>17-19 October 2008
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > To learn more about reader services, see:
                            > http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm
                            >
                            > To access this lists archives, go to:
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                            > ogion.htm
                            >
                            > To access this lists archives, go to:
                            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >

                            --
                            Deacon Michael Bishop
                            PO Box 23485
                            Baltimore MD 21213-5485
                            http://www.Michael-Bishop.com

                            See you at the Russian Festival
                            17-19 October 2008
                          • andreas.anagnostis@gmail.com
                            I would think in the absence of a priest, the senior reader would read the Gospel pericopes - as at Typika.
                            Message 13 of 15 , Dec 4, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I would think in the absence of a priest, the senior reader would read
                              the Gospel pericopes - as at Typika.

                              On 12/4/07, Deacon Michael Bishop <Photo@...> wrote:
                              > My experience in the Russian style is for everything to be done in the
                              > middle of the temple and the priest is out there. We have a stand in
                              > the middle of the front and the priest and vested Readers stand there.
                              > The choir is on the kliros. Anybody else is in the pews.
                              >
                              > I'm sure that I've attended Royal Hours at Holy Cross in the past, but I
                              > cannot remember. It would had been when I was on the OCA and the local
                              > parish did not do Royal Hours. So I do not remember how they did it.
                              >
                              > Question, if you do not have a priest, do you just skip the Gospel
                              > readings or do somebody in the parish read them?
                              >
                              > Deacon Michael
                            • Joseph Rice
                              When our mission did the Royal Hours last year for Nativity, we did them as we would do a Reader s Typika/Hours. Sang the various troparia and everything. It
                              Message 14 of 15 , Dec 5, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                When our mission did the Royal Hours last year for Nativity, we did them as we would do a Reader's Typika/Hours. Sang the various troparia and everything. It was a nice service.



                                andreas.anagnostis@... wrote:
                                I would think in the absence of a priest, the senior reader would read
                                the Gospel pericopes - as at Typika.

                                On 12/4/07, Deacon Michael Bishop <Photo@...> wrote:
                                > My experience in the Russian style is for everything to be done in the
                                > middle of the temple and the priest is out there. We have a stand in
                                > the middle of the front and the priest and vested Readers stand there.
                                > The choir is on the kliros. Anybody else is in the pews.
                                >
                                > I'm sure that I've attended Royal Hours at Holy Cross in the past, but I
                                > cannot remember. It would had been when I was on the OCA and the local
                                > parish did not do Royal Hours. So I do not remember how they did it.
                                >
                                > Question, if you do not have a priest, do you just skip the Gospel
                                > readings or do somebody in the parish read them?
                                >
                                > Deacon Michael





                                Rdr Joseph Rice
                                St John Chrysostom Orthodox Mission (OCA)
                                Columbus, GA
                                www.stjohnocachurch.org

                                ---------------------------------
                                Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Kenneth Doll
                                My parish is on the Julian calendar (Nativity on Monday this year) and we have decided to serve the Royal Hours on Friday evening instead of Friday morning.
                                Message 15 of 15 , Dec 13, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  My parish is on the Julian calendar (Nativity on Monday this year)
                                  and we have decided to serve the Royal Hours on Friday evening
                                  instead of Friday morning. We did this last year as well when
                                  Nativity was on a Sunday. It was perceived that more people would
                                  show up in the evening. Also, since vespers and St. Basil's liturgy
                                  are not following immediately, it did not seem as critical (?) to
                                  serve in the morning. It also gives people another opportunity to go
                                  to confession. :)
                                  I suppose if we were serving all the services, as at a monastery or
                                  cathedral, it might be more critical to serve the Royal Hours at the
                                  correct time so as not to skew everything else.
                                  Kenneth Doll

                                  --- In orthodox-readers@yahoogroups.com, Deacon Michael Bishop
                                  <Photo@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Yes, I agree that it does make for a very, very long service Monday
                                  > morning and perhaps this is probably why most parishes do not do
                                  the
                                  > Royal Hours. It is especially hard on a priest who does not have
                                  > another priest or a deacon to assist him.
                                  >
                                  > I've been in situations where I was the choir and there was one
                                  priest
                                  > and two or three people at most in the congregation on the Eve of
                                  the
                                  > Nativity. This would had indeed been a very, very, very long
                                  service.
                                  >
                                  > For those on the old calendar this year, the feast of the Nativity
                                  falls
                                  > on a Monday and the Royal Hours are served on Friday. The Liturgy
                                  of
                                  > St. John is served on Sunday and the Liturgy of St. Basil is served
                                  on
                                  > Monday if memory serves me correctly. On Sunday evening we do Great
                                  > Compline, Matins, and First Hour -- vigil.
                                  >
                                  > And don't forget the Holy Supper.
                                  >
                                  > Deacon Michael
                                  >
                                  > Philip Sokolov wrote:
                                  > > You are correct. Technically it should be:
                                  > >
                                  > > Monday, December 24:
                                  > > 10am: Royal Hours (First, Third, Sixth, Ninth, Typika), Vespers
                                  > > combined with the Liturgy of St. Basil.
                                  > > 6pm: Great Compline, Great Matins, First Hour.
                                  > >
                                  > > Tuesday, December 25:
                                  > > 10am: Third and Sixth Hours, Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.
                                  > >
                                  > > But that makes for a very long service Monday morning!
                                  > >
                                  > > --Philip Sokolov
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Deacon Michael Bishop wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >>I have never seen nor heard of Royal Hours being served in the
                                  evening.
                                  > >> If the Nativity (or Theophany) falls on a Sunday or Monday, the
                                  Royal
                                  > >>Hours are served on Friday morning. Liturgy of St. Basil is
                                  served on
                                  > >>the feast. Otherwise a Vesperal Divine Liturgy of St. Basil is
                                  served
                                  > >>on the eve of the feast.
                                  > >>
                                  > >>If the Nativity of Theophany falls on a Tuesday, the Royal Hours
                                  are
                                  > >>served on Monday morning. They should be served before the
                                  Vesperal
                                  > >>Divine Liturgy.
                                  > >>
                                  > >>This has been my experience. I know of midnight Divine Liturgy
                                  for the
                                  > >>feast only in the Byzantine practice.
                                  > >>
                                  > >>Deacon Michael
                                  > >>
                                  > >>Philip Sokolov wrote:
                                  > >>
                                  > >>>Joseph Rice wrote:
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>>In most missions/churches in the Slavic tradition (OCA, ROCOR,
                                  MP), is it
                                  > >>>>traditional to have a the Great Compline/Matins Vigil with
                                  Divine Liturgy
                                  > >>>>following (say at midnight), or would Liturgy normally be
                                  served at the
                                  > >>>>normal time (say 10 am) on the day of Nativity?
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>Parish practice (OCA/ROCOR/MP) would be something like this:
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>Sunday, December 23:
                                  > >>>Royal Hours - 6pm
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>Monday, December 24:
                                  > >>>Vesperal Divine Liturgy (St Basil) - 10am
                                  > >>>Vigil (Great Compline/Matins) - 6pm
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>Sunday, December 25:
                                  > >>>Divine Liturgy (St. John) - 10am
                                  > >>>--
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>Philip Sokolov
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>To learn more about reader services, see:
                                  > >>>http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>To access this lists archives, go to:
                                  > >>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                                  > >>>ogion.htm
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>To access this lists archives, go to:
                                  > >>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > To learn more about reader services, see:
                                  > > http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm
                                  > >
                                  > > To access this lists archives, go to:
                                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                                  > > ogion.htm
                                  > >
                                  > > To access this lists archives, go to:
                                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox-readers
                                  > >
                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > Deacon Michael Bishop
                                  > PO Box 23485
                                  > Baltimore MD 21213-5485
                                  > http://www.Michael-Bishop.com
                                  >
                                  > See you at the Russian Festival
                                  > 17-19 October 2008
                                  >
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