Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Hi All, Update on what's happening

Expand Messages
  • jbrotorua
    ... Absolutely 100%, chine logs are in my mind the way to go. Ive built many boats in my time, and used all techniques known to man to build them. The main
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 1, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      --- In onesheetwonders@yahoogroups.com, "ezguine" <ken.nesbitt@...> wrote:
      >
      Absolutely 100%, chine logs are in my mind the way to go. Ive built many boats in my time, and used all techniques known to man to build them. The main problem is the myth that stitch and glue is easier or faster or cheaper, to the pro`s maybe but to the back yard builder its not.
      Taped stitch and glue sounds simple and easy but take into consideration all the filling and sanding in labor, then consider a already made wood chine log that when you install it and plane it its finished in one process.
      Stitch and glue takes 3 processes of endless sanding and fairing and filling, its simplicity only in the way of letting the glue dry.

      Cost?- imagine the cost of glass tape a foot x3 with epoxy and filler, then imagine the cost of solid wood a foot with a few stainless screws and minimal hole filler. I urge you to go with chine logs and save yourself time and money and frustration. Bend the ply sides to shape, then install unbeveled chine logs, then electric or hand plane them to suit the bottom panel.This way the inside gets finished and the outside in process instead of having to tape the outside and then the inside with stitch and glue.

      Terible news about the storm, and know the feeling when its 4 seasons in one day, trying to paint or finish boat hulls. Good luck keep us posted.

      Whilest I remember, the trick is good clamps the trigger kind for one hand operation not the g clamps makes chine logs easier for one person.

      cheers Phillip


      > Well, my news isn't so good. Had some setbacks.
      > Tried building a Jon type one-sheeter with plans I got from http://www.simplicityboats.com/OSchallengeresults.html and I have to tell you, I am DONE with trying to use inside chine logs and other forms of wood framing. I am even going to break down and buy polyester resin and fiberglass tape for all future projects
      >
      > The one sheet Jon boat from above is made to use stitch and glue. Kenny-the-Carpenter thought I could convert the plans to use a ply-on-frame construction which I was fond of. I ripped an old 2X10 into 1.5 by 1.5 square stock which I used for the frames around the transoms and such. I carefully measured all the angles after I cut out the side and bottom panels and beveled all the framing stock on the benchtop Ryobi $99 tablesaw. I also beveled some 1X2's for the inside chine logs. All was going well, until I went to actually assemble the boat. Getting ready to attach a side panel to the bow transom looked like the side panel was leaning inward, as though the bevel was cut in the wrong direction. Dropped all the clamps and remeasured all the angles - right on the money. Must be an optical illusion I'm thinking So I proceed, but only clamping up the boat with no fasteners or glue as dry fit. Again, the sides appear to be bowing inwards. I puzzled over this for a few hours, taking it apart, measuring the angles and trying to convince myself this must be an optical illusion. Then it dawned on me.
      > COMPOUND, ANGLES.
      > Compound angles do not get cut at the finished angle (If I'm saying that right) So I rigged up the transoms on the building table I made for this project and using a protractor held about level I see I need 15 degrees more bevel for the bow, and 10 more for the stern but, screws in the transom forms are in the way and I don't want to mess up my blade. I beveled additional strips to 15 and 10 degrees and glued them onto the sides of the transoms. Being frustrated and overheated (90 degrees, 85 percent humidity) I went in to the house to cool down in the AC. Slowly working my way down to a horizonal position I fell asleep.
      > I awoke to the heavy rumbling of thunder, and heard the sound of rain on the awnings. Yep, it was pouring alright. The side panels, some of my tools, the bottom panel... all out in the rain. when it slowed I went out and gathered up my tools to dry them off. I saw that the plywood was delaminating and would probaly only get worse. Just then, my blue boat which was standing upright leaning against the house caught a gust of wind and fell foward towards the building form.
      > <Crack!> The corner of the building form cracked a hole through the bottom. About 2 inches long. I picked up the blue boat, and leaned it on more of an angle and went in as the rain started getting heavier. I sat in the house, brewing about the 'moisture resistant underlayment' luaun plywood. I will not use that product again. Or Glidden paint, or chine logs. Qaulity ACX, stich and glue with polyester resin and fiberglass tape for me.
      >
      > Otherwise, been great fun !
      > Kenny in Philly
      >
    • ezguine
      Hi Phil, I m talking about inside chine logs, and inside framing pieces. I m not a fan of the way outside chine logs look. I notch out the bow and transom
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 1, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Phil,
        I'm talking about inside chine logs, and inside framing pieces. I'm not a fan of the way outside chine logs look.

        I notch out the bow and transom frames and center frame for the inside chine logs, and I like them to fit together like dovetail joints. Nice and tight (But overkill). Plus, every time I took my boat out for a paddle I had to touch up the scratches even though I handled that boat gingerly. Those corners are easily damaged and the bottom gets scuffed up when I come back to shore. Need something more durable then just paint on the plywood.

        I've been looking at sheets of 1/8in melanie countertop material but it has 2 main problems. It's not cheap, and it's heavy. Until something better comes along, a layer of glass/resin on the corners and a sealer coat of resin seems the best option, at least for my needs. Maybe roll a sheet of 1/16 polyethlene over the bottom, trim it to a 1 inch overhang, heat that with a heat gun so it sags down and cover with a 1/4in rub rail and caulk to seal. But I know water would find it's way in between the poly and painted bottom and be trapped in there. Anyone try masonite or hardboard?


        Kenny in Philly



        > --- In onesheetwonders@yahoogroups.com, "ezguine" <ken.nesbitt@> wrote:
        > >
        > Absolutely 100%, chine logs are in my mind the way to go. Ive built many boats in my time, and used all techniques known to man to build them. The main problem is the myth that stitch and glue is easier or faster or cheaper, to the pro`s maybe but to the back yard builder its not.
        > Taped stitch and glue sounds simple and easy but take into consideration all the filling and sanding in labor, then consider a already made wood chine log that when you install it and plane it its finished in one process.
        > Stitch and glue takes 3 processes of endless sanding and fairing and filling, its simplicity only in the way of letting the glue dry.
        >
        > Cost?- imagine the cost of glass tape a foot x3 with epoxy and filler, then imagine the cost of solid wood a foot with a few stainless screws and minimal hole filler. I urge you to go with chine logs and save yourself time and money and frustration. Bend the ply sides to shape, then install unbeveled chine logs, then electric or hand plane them to suit the bottom panel.This way the inside gets finished and the outside in process instead of having to tape the outside and then the inside with stitch and glue.
        >
        > Terible news about the storm, and know the feeling when its 4 seasons in one day, trying to paint or finish boat hulls. Good luck keep us posted.
        >
        > Whilest I remember, the trick is good clamps the trigger kind for one hand operation not the g clamps makes chine logs easier for one person.
        >
        > cheers Phillip
        >
        >
        > > Well, my news isn't so good. Had some setbacks.
        > > Tried building a Jon type one-sheeter with plans I got from http://www.simplicityboats.com/OSchallengeresults.html and I have to tell you, I am DONE with trying to use inside chine logs and other forms of wood framing. I am even going to break down and buy polyester resin and fiberglass tape for all future projects
        > >
        > > The one sheet Jon boat from above is made to use stitch and glue. Kenny-the-Carpenter thought I could convert the plans to use a ply-on-frame construction which I was fond of. I ripped an old 2X10 into 1.5 by 1.5 square stock which I used for the frames around the transoms and such. I carefully measured all the angles after I cut out the side and bottom panels and beveled all the framing stock on the benchtop Ryobi $99 tablesaw. I also beveled some 1X2's for the inside chine logs. All was going well, until I went to actually assemble the boat. Getting ready to attach a side panel to the bow transom looked like the side panel was leaning inward, as though the bevel was cut in the wrong direction. Dropped all the clamps and remeasured all the angles - right on the money. Must be an optical illusion I'm thinking So I proceed, but only clamping up the boat with no fasteners or glue as dry fit. Again, the sides appear to be bowing inwards. I puzzled over this for a few hours, taking it apart, measuring the angles and trying to convince myself this must be an optical illusion. Then it dawned on me.
        > > COMPOUND, ANGLES.
        > > Compound angles do not get cut at the finished angle (If I'm saying that right) So I rigged up the transoms on the building table I made for this project and using a protractor held about level I see I need 15 degrees more bevel for the bow, and 10 more for the stern but, screws in the transom forms are in the way and I don't want to mess up my blade. I beveled additional strips to 15 and 10 degrees and glued them onto the sides of the transoms. Being frustrated and overheated (90 degrees, 85 percent humidity) I went in to the house to cool down in the AC. Slowly working my way down to a horizonal position I fell asleep.
        > > I awoke to the heavy rumbling of thunder, and heard the sound of rain on the awnings. Yep, it was pouring alright. The side panels, some of my tools, the bottom panel... all out in the rain. when it slowed I went out and gathered up my tools to dry them off. I saw that the plywood was delaminating and would probaly only get worse. Just then, my blue boat which was standing upright leaning against the house caught a gust of wind and fell foward towards the building form.
        > > <Crack!> The corner of the building form cracked a hole through the bottom. About 2 inches long. I picked up the blue boat, and leaned it on more of an angle and went in as the rain started getting heavier. I sat in the house, brewing about the 'moisture resistant underlayment' luaun plywood. I will not use that product again. Or Glidden paint, or chine logs. Qaulity ACX, stich and glue with polyester resin and fiberglass tape for me.
        > >
        > > Otherwise, been great fun !
        > > Kenny in Philly
        > >
        >
      • jbrotorua
        ... Hi Kenny, the sound of human perseverance. I know I was meaning inside chine logs, it can often be easier installing chine logs inside the panel leaving
        Message 3 of 6 , Sep 2, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In onesheetwonders@yahoogroups.com, "ezguine" <ken.nesbitt@...> wrote:

          Hi Kenny, the sound of human perseverance.

          I know I was meaning inside chine logs, it can often be easier installing chine logs inside the panel leaving them sitting slightly above the side panel, then planing the whole panel to the shape of the bevel.

          Scratches are annoying but inevitable, but there are ways to protect the hull buy making skids out of hardwood with metal strips fastened on top. Or you could glass cloth the bottom, that would add to the weight, or just seal with coats of epoxy without the mat x3, you can tint epoxy to color it to the color of the paint your using for the final coat. Or hard floor varnish the stuff designed for walking and abrasion resistance.

          Masonite or hardboard will turn to mush if it gets wet, its only a consideration if used as a core material for heavy fiberglass layup chopped strand mat in my opinion.

          Hope this helps - Cheers Phil.


          >
          > Hi Phil,
          > I'm talking about inside chine logs, and inside framing pieces. I'm not a fan of the way outside chine logs look.
          >
          > I notch out the bow and transom frames and center frame for the inside chine logs, and I like them to fit together like dovetail joints. Nice and tight (But overkill). Plus, every time I took my boat out for a paddle I had to touch up the scratches even though I handled that boat gingerly. Those corners are easily damaged and the bottom gets scuffed up when I come back to shore. Need something more durable then just paint on the plywood.



          >
          > I've been looking at sheets of 1/8in melanie countertop material but it has 2 main problems. It's not cheap, and it's heavy. Until something better comes along, a layer of glass/resin on the corners and a sealer coat of resin seems the best option, at least for my needs. Maybe roll a sheet of 1/16 polyethlene over the bottom, trim it to a 1 inch overhang, heat that with a heat gun so it sags down and cover with a 1/4in rub rail and caulk to seal. But I know water would find it's way in between the poly and painted bottom and be trapped in there. Anyone try masonite or hardboard?
          >
          >
          > Kenny in Philly
          >
          >
          >
          > > --- In onesheetwonders@yahoogroups.com, "ezguine" <ken.nesbitt@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > Absolutely 100%, chine logs are in my mind the way to go. Ive built many boats in my time, and used all techniques known to man to build them. The main problem is the myth that stitch and glue is easier or faster or cheaper, to the pro`s maybe but to the back yard builder its not.
          > > Taped stitch and glue sounds simple and easy but take into consideration all the filling and sanding in labor, then consider a already made wood chine log that when you install it and plane it its finished in one process.
          > > Stitch and glue takes 3 processes of endless sanding and fairing and filling, its simplicity only in the way of letting the glue dry.
          > >
          > > Cost?- imagine the cost of glass tape a foot x3 with epoxy and filler, then imagine the cost of solid wood a foot with a few stainless screws and minimal hole filler. I urge you to go with chine logs and save yourself time and money and frustration. Bend the ply sides to shape, then install unbeveled chine logs, then electric or hand plane them to suit the bottom panel.This way the inside gets finished and the outside in process instead of having to tape the outside and then the inside with stitch and glue.
          > >
          > > Terible news about the storm, and know the feeling when its 4 seasons in one day, trying to paint or finish boat hulls. Good luck keep us posted.
          > >
          > > Whilest I remember, the trick is good clamps the trigger kind for one hand operation not the g clamps makes chine logs easier for one person.
          > >
          > > cheers Phillip
          > >
          > >
          > > > Well, my news isn't so good. Had some setbacks.
          > > > Tried building a Jon type one-sheeter with plans I got from http://www.simplicityboats.com/OSchallengeresults.html and I have to tell you, I am DONE with trying to use inside chine logs and other forms of wood framing. I am even going to break down and buy polyester resin and fiberglass tape for all future projects
          > > >
          > > > The one sheet Jon boat from above is made to use stitch and glue. Kenny-the-Carpenter thought I could convert the plans to use a ply-on-frame construction which I was fond of. I ripped an old 2X10 into 1.5 by 1.5 square stock which I used for the frames around the transoms and such. I carefully measured all the angles after I cut out the side and bottom panels and beveled all the framing stock on the benchtop Ryobi $99 tablesaw. I also beveled some 1X2's for the inside chine logs. All was going well, until I went to actually assemble the boat. Getting ready to attach a side panel to the bow transom looked like the side panel was leaning inward, as though the bevel was cut in the wrong direction. Dropped all the clamps and remeasured all the angles - right on the money. Must be an optical illusion I'm thinking So I proceed, but only clamping up the boat with no fasteners or glue as dry fit. Again, the sides appear to be bowing inwards. I puzzled over this for a few hours, taking it apart, measuring the angles and trying to convince myself this must be an optical illusion. Then it dawned on me.
          > > > COMPOUND, ANGLES.
          > > > Compound angles do not get cut at the finished angle (If I'm saying that right) So I rigged up the transoms on the building table I made for this project and using a protractor held about level I see I need 15 degrees more bevel for the bow, and 10 more for the stern but, screws in the transom forms are in the way and I don't want to mess up my blade. I beveled additional strips to 15 and 10 degrees and glued them onto the sides of the transoms. Being frustrated and overheated (90 degrees, 85 percent humidity) I went in to the house to cool down in the AC. Slowly working my way down to a horizonal position I fell asleep.
          > > > I awoke to the heavy rumbling of thunder, and heard the sound of rain on the awnings. Yep, it was pouring alright. The side panels, some of my tools, the bottom panel... all out in the rain. when it slowed I went out and gathered up my tools to dry them off. I saw that the plywood was delaminating and would probaly only get worse. Just then, my blue boat which was standing upright leaning against the house caught a gust of wind and fell foward towards the building form.
          > > > <Crack!> The corner of the building form cracked a hole through the bottom. About 2 inches long. I picked up the blue boat, and leaned it on more of an angle and went in as the rain started getting heavier. I sat in the house, brewing about the 'moisture resistant underlayment' luaun plywood. I will not use that product again. Or Glidden paint, or chine logs. Qaulity ACX, stich and glue with polyester resin and fiberglass tape for me.
          > > >
          > > > Otherwise, been great fun !
          > > > Kenny in Philly
          > > >
          > >
          >
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.