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RE: was... San Juan Switches

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  • Glenn Farley
    William, I have built dozens of #6 switches using Fast Traxx jigs for my layout and my Overland K-37 negotiates them perfectly, and can push and pull any
    Message 1 of 18 , Sep 14, 2013
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      William,

       

         I have built dozens of #6 switches using Fast Traxx jigs for my layout and my Overland K-37 negotiates them perfectly,  and can push and pull any string through them without derailing even while snaking through the yard.  While I am not using SJ turnouts I would be surprise if coupler swing is the cause.  My entire fleet is now equipped with SJCC couplers and that has not been a problem.  I’ve modified many of my couplers on Grandt and brass cars to accommodate the existing coupler boxes which can be quite narrow.  I wanted to avoid cutting apart my Grandt drop bottoms and other cars just to install Kadee boxes.  That’s the advantage of the plastic couplers, you can trim the shank down, glue other parts to it, fatten it, thin it ...lengthen the shank or shorten it choose where you want the pivot hole to be.   Every car type seems to present its own challenges outside of San Juan ’s own cars.   I even install a spring wire coming out the back of some of them that goes through a hold drilled in the back of the coupler box which helps center the coupler.  Narrow coupler boxes have a bit of an advantage as their opening is so tight that they’re pretty well centered as it is.  At 30 feet, the typical NG freight car is hardly pushing the envelope on coupler swing.  Sorry, I don’t have a 40 foot reefer to test something longer, and I have yet to build and deploy my passenger cars, where I would expect coupler swing issues. 

       

         Don’t get me wrong, #8 switches are a wonderful thing...but if space is an issue  #6 is the way to go.  BTW, is the curve going in and out of the turnouts tighter than a 42” radius? 

       

      Glenn

       


      From: on3@yahoogroups.com [mailto: on3@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of William Reed
      Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2013 1:47 PM
      To: on3@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [on3] San Juan Switches

       

       

      Gang,
       
      I was running my newly R/C'd MMI K-37 the other day through a SJCC switch and the engine goes through perfectly but I noticed that some of my cars would derail both being pulled and pushed.  I can't quite see what's causing this but I'm starting to think it's due to the coupler swing or lack there of.  Anyone else had this problem?  If this is an issue I may switch to #8 switches and not use the SJCC #6.  Any ideas or feedback is appreciated.  Thanks.
       
      William
      aka drgwk37
       

    • William Reed
      Glenn Thanks for your reply. After reading some of the replies and again looking at the switch it may be in the point itself and I will file it down some to
      Message 2 of 18 , Sep 16, 2013
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        Glenn
         
        Thanks for your reply.  After reading some of the replies and again looking at the switch it may be in the point itself and I will file it down some to ensure that it is not causing the derailments.  I too prefer the SJCC couplers, the K-37 goes through every time without any issue it is just the cars that derailed and it was hit and miss.  The track leading to the switch and leaving the switch were both straight so there isn't a curve in this scenario.  The other thing I can look at is adding some weight--although I tried many cars some kit built and some r-T-r cars all from SJCC.  I tend to think its the point as I've had many of these cars on a friends layout and they ran flawlessly--but again he has handspiked track which is perfect of course! ;o)  I will do some modifications and let you guys know if I find anything.  Appreciate all the replies and help.  Thanks
         
        William
        aka drgwk37
         

        To: on3@yahoogroups.com
        From: gkfarley@...
        Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 21:40:20 -0700
        Subject: [on3] RE: was... San Juan Switches

         

        William,

         

           I have built dozens of #6 switches using Fast Traxx jigs for my layout and my Overland K-37 negotiates them perfectly,  and can push and pull any string through them without derailing even while snaking through the yard.  While I am not using SJ turnouts I would be surprise if coupler swing is the cause.  My entire fleet is now equipped with SJCC couplers and that has not been a problem.  I’ve modified many of my couplers on Grandt and brass cars to accommodate the existing coupler boxes which can be quite narrow.  I wanted to avoid cutting apart my Grandt drop bottoms and other cars just to install Kadee boxes.  That’s the advantage of the plastic couplers, you can trim the shank down, glue other parts to it, fatten it, thin it ...lengthen the shank or shorten it choose where you want the pivot hole to be.   Every car type seems to present its own challenges outside of San Juan’s own cars.   I even install a spring wire coming out the back of some of them that goes through a hold drilled in the back of the coupler box which helps center the coupler.  Narrow coupler boxes have a bit of an advantage as their opening is so tight that they’re pretty well centered as it is.  At 30 feet, the typical NG freight car is hardly pushing the envelope on coupler swing.  Sorry, I don’t have a 40 foot reefer to test something longer, and I have yet to build and deploy my passenger cars, where I would expect coupler swing issues. 

         

           Don’t get me wrong, #8 switches are a wonderful thing...but if space is an issue  #6 is the way to go.  BTW, is the curve going in and out of the turnouts tighter than a 42” radius? 

         

        Glenn

         


        From: on3@yahoogroups.com [mailto:on3@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William Reed
        Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2013 1:47 PM
        To: on3@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [on3] San Juan Switches

         

         

        Gang,
         
        I was running my newly R/C'd MMI K-37 the other day through a SJCC switch and the engine goes through perfectly but I noticed that some of my cars would derail both being pulled and pushed.  I can't quite see what's causing this but I'm starting to think it's due to the coupler swing or lack there of.  Anyone else had this problem?  If this is an issue I may switch to #8 switches and not use the SJCC #6.  Any ideas or feedback is appreciated.  Thanks.
         
        William
        aka drgwk37
         


      • William Reed
        Anyone seen this site or seen the products? Looks like a great place to get materials for building a Roundhouse. I saw this posted on the Sn3 list.
        Message 3 of 18 , Sep 16, 2013
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          Anyone seen this site or seen the products?  Looks like a great place to get materials for building a Roundhouse.  I saw this posted on the Sn3 list.
           
          http://monstermodelworks.com/ 
           
          William
          aka drgwk37

           
        • Steve
          Keevan if you got a seat belt for your bar chair you wouldn t fall off. Steve McKee And I thought I was in bad shape, after all I did fall down in July and
          Message 4 of 18 , Sep 16, 2013
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            Keevan if you got a seat belt for your bar chair you wouldn't fall off. Steve McKee

            And I thought I was in bad shape, after all I did fall down in July and
            spent a week in the hospital. My condition since is of extreme weakness but
            not anywhere near what Jim has been experiencing. Get well Jim and good
            wishes for the future.

            Keevan
          • Richard Johnson
            The owner is in our narrow gauge circle here in San Diego, his products are amazing. I hope he will do Rigeway roundhouse. I would like one in O scale some
            Message 5 of 18 , Sep 16, 2013
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              The owner is in our narrow gauge circle here in San Diego, his products are amazing.
              I hope he will do Rigeway roundhouse.  I would like one in O scale some day.
              Rich Johnson

              www.RichardSJohnson.net 

              "Those who enjoy freedom must endeavor to preserve it."


              "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms…"
              Thomas Jefferson



               

              To: on3@yahoogroups.com
              From: bigbiggarage@...
              Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 07:55:56 -0400
              Subject: [on3] Cool link for Roundhouse in O scale

               
              Anyone seen this site or seen the products?  Looks like a great place to get materials for building a Roundhouse.  I saw this posted on the Sn3 list.
               
              http://monstermodelworks.com/ 
               
              William
              aka drgwk37

               


            • Robert McFarland
              Maybe Monster could do the DSP&P Gunnison Roundhouse. ________________________________ From: Richard Johnson To: on3@yahoogroups.com
              Message 6 of 18 , Sep 16, 2013
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                Maybe Monster could do the DSP&P Gunnison Roundhouse.


                From: Richard Johnson <killroy321@...>
                To: "on3@yahoogroups.com" <on3@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 8:24 AM
                Subject: RE: [on3] Cool link for Roundhouse in O scale

                 
                The owner is in our narrow gauge circle here in San Diego, his products are amazing.
                I hope he will do Rigeway roundhouse.  I would like one in O scale some day.
                Rich Johnson

                www.RichardSJohnson.net 

                "Those who enjoy freedom must endeavor to preserve it."


                "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms…"
                Thomas Jefferson



                 

                To: on3@yahoogroups.com
                From: bigbiggarage@...
                Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 07:55:56 -0400
                Subject: [on3] Cool link for Roundhouse in O scale

                 
                Anyone seen this site or seen the products?  Looks like a great place to get materials for building a Roundhouse.  I saw this posted on the Sn3 list.
                 
                http://monstermodelworks.com/ 
                 
                William
                aka drgwk37

                 



              • Robert McFarland
                When will they do the stone sheets in O scale? ________________________________ From: Richard Johnson To: on3@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 18 , Sep 16, 2013
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                  When will they do the stone sheets in O scale?


                  From: Richard Johnson <killroy321@...>
                  To: "on3@yahoogroups.com" <on3@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 8:24 AM
                  Subject: RE: [on3] Cool link for Roundhouse in O scale

                   
                  The owner is in our narrow gauge circle here in San Diego, his products are amazing.
                  I hope he will do Rigeway roundhouse.  I would like one in O scale some day.
                  Rich Johnson

                  www.RichardSJohnson.net 

                  "Those who enjoy freedom must endeavor to preserve it."


                  "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms…"
                  Thomas Jefferson



                   

                  To: on3@yahoogroups.com
                  From: bigbiggarage@...
                  Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 07:55:56 -0400
                  Subject: [on3] Cool link for Roundhouse in O scale

                   
                  Anyone seen this site or seen the products?  Looks like a great place to get materials for building a Roundhouse.  I saw this posted on the Sn3 list.
                   
                  http://monstermodelworks.com/ 
                   
                  William
                  aka drgwk37

                   



                • Bob Staat
                  There have been several different ideas of why some SJCC cars derail through our #6 switches on selected layouts and so I have tried to duplicate the problem
                  Message 8 of 18 , Sep 17, 2013
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                    There have been several different ideas of why some SJCC cars derail through our #6 switches on selected layouts and so I have tried to duplicate the problem using current production run switches and flex track.  First of all, using RTR drop bottom gons and tank cars I could not get them to derail pushing or pulling through a switch.  I did have a derailment using a well worn high side gon but on closer examination a wheel set had come out of the side frame bearing.  Reinstalling the wheel set solved the problem as would a new set of trucks.  While I cannot replicate the problem, I can offer a couple of constructive comments based on my experience of designing and improving the McHenry line of of HO and N scale couplers.  I do not think the coupler swing is an issue as there is minimal movement going through the #6 switch.  What I have found is that John Parker designed the knuckles of the Evolution Coupler to fit closely with each other with just enough clearance to couple easily.  I find that taking just a few thousandths off the rounded knuckle face opposite the knuckle tip relieves any potential binding and allows the knuckle to move more freely when coupled and greatly improves magnetic uncoupling.  Those of you that have seen our uncoupling display at the convention know that they work every time.  Another area to check is the clearance of the trip pin which can catch on the rails and pull a car off at the point. Others have made valid commented about car weight which may be an issue and fine tuning the switch itself including making sure the working areas of the switch are free and clear of dirt/ballast or other scenery products.
                     
                    Hope this helps.
                     
                    Bob Staat
                    San Juan Car Co.
                     

                    From: William Reed <bigbiggarage@...>
                    To: "on3@yahoogroups.com" <on3@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 7:52 AM
                    Subject: RE: [on3] RE: was... San Juan Switches
                     
                    Glenn   Thanks for your reply.  After reading some of the replies and again looking at the switch it may be in the point itself and I will file it down some to ensure that it is not causing the derailments.  I too prefer the SJCC couplers, the K-37 goes through every time without any issue it is just the cars that derailed and it was hit and miss.  The track leading to the switch and leaving the switch were both straight so there isn't a curve in this scenario.  The other thing I can look at is adding some weight--although I tried many cars some kit built and some r-T-r cars all from SJCC.  I tend to think its the point as I've had many of these cars on a friends layout and they ran flawlessly--but again he has handspiked track which is perfect of course! ;o)  I will do some modifications and let you guys know if I find anything.  Appreciate all the replies and help.  Thanks   William aka drgwk37  
                    To: on3@yahoogroups.com From: gkfarley@... Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 21:40:20 -0700 Subject: [on3] RE: was... San Juan Switches 
                    William,
                     
                       I have built dozens of #6 switches using Fast Traxx jigs for my layout and my Overland K-37 negotiates them perfectly,  and can push and pull any string through them without derailing even while snaking through the yard.  While I am not using SJ turnouts I would be surprise if coupler swing is the cause.  My entire fleet is now equipped with SJCC couplers and that has not been a problem.  I’ve modified many of my couplers on Grandt and brass cars to accommodate the existing coupler boxes which can be quite narrow.  I wanted to avoid cutting apart my Grandt drop bottoms and other cars just to install Kadee boxes.  That’s the advantage of the plastic couplers, you can trim the shank down, glue other parts to it, fatten it, thin it ...lengthen the shank or shorten it choose where you want the pivot hole to be.   Every car type seems to present its own challenges outside of San Juan’s own cars.   I even install a spring wire coming out the back of some of them that goes through a hold drilled in the back of the coupler box which helps center the coupler.  Narrow coupler boxes have a bit of an advantage as their opening is so tight that they’re pretty well centered as it is.  At 30 feet, the typical NG freight car is hardly pushing the envelope on coupler swing.  Sorry, I don’t have a 40 foot reefer to test something longer, and I have yet to build and deploy my passenger cars, where I would expect coupler swing issues. 
                     
                       Don’t get me wrong, #8 switches are a wonderful thing...but if space is an issue  #6 is the way to go.  BTW, is the curve going in and out of the turnouts tighter than a 42” radius? 
                     
                    Glenn
                     
                    From: on3@yahoogroups.com [mailto:on3@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of William Reed
                    Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2013 1:47 PM
                    To: on3@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [on3] San Juan Switches
                     
                     
                    Gang,
                     
                    I was running my newly R/C'd MMI K-37 the other day through a SJCC switch and the engine goes through perfectly but I noticed that some of my cars would derail both being pulled and pushed.  I can't quite see what's causing this but I'm starting to think it's due to the coupler swing or lack there of.  Anyone else had this problem?  If this is an issue I may switch to #8 switches and not use the SJCC #6.  Any ideas or feedback is appreciated.  Thanks.
                     
                    William
                    aka drgwk37
                     

                  • Richard Johnson
                    While I havent had SJ RTR cars derail on the new #6 switches, I did expereince them derailing all over the San Diego club layout, which is all hand laid track.
                    Message 9 of 18 , Sep 17, 2013
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                      While I havent had SJ RTR cars derail on the new #6 switches, I did expereince them derailing all over the San Diego club layout, which is all hand laid track.  I found that several of the RTR cars I got (cant remember which ones specifically) were set up under a 3 point theory system, meaning that one truck is very free to allow the car to rock side to side above it, while the other truck has tall bumpers on the body bolster to prevent the car from rocking side to side; in theory giving a more realistic scale rocking rather than wobblyness of a model.
                       
                      Problem was that three point sysem caused every car to derail constantly, because the car could not rock prototypically.  I removed the trucks and filed off the taller bump stops on the particular offending trucks and they all ran great after that.  Real Rail Roads do not have 3 pointed cars for good reason. I dont believe in it for that and the fact that no 3 pointed car will operate on our layout.  Others swear by it, and if it works for them great, but not me.
                       
                      I have installed a few #6 switches and all my WS logging flats go through them fine. mixture of kadee on3 and SJ Evolutions.
                       
                      Regards all
                      Rich Johnson

                      www.RichardSJohnson.net 

                      "Those who enjoy freedom must endeavor to preserve it."


                      "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms…"
                      Thomas Jefferson



                    • Masonbogie
                      Since you ve mentioned it, I ve done the doors for Gunnison as 3D prints in O scale. You can go to https://www.shapeways.com/shops/masonbogie George
                      Message 10 of 18 , Sep 17, 2013
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                        Since you've mentioned it, I've done the doors for Gunnison as 3D prints in O scale. You can go to https://www.shapeways.com/shops/masonbogie

                        George Sebastian-Coleman
                        11 Taine Mountain Road
                        Unionville CT 06085




                        On Sep 16, 2013, at 12:14 PM, Robert McFarland wrote:

                         

                        Maybe Monster could do the DSP&P Gunnison Roundhouse.


                        From: Richard Johnson <killroy321@...>
                        To: "on3@yahoogroups.com" <on3@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 8:24 AM
                        Subject: RE: [on3] Cool link for Roundhouse in O scale

                         
                        The owner is in our narrow gauge circle here in San Diego, his products are amazing.
                        I hope he will do Rigeway roundhouse.  I would like one in O scale some day.
                        Rich Johnson

                        www.RichardSJohnson.net 

                        "Those who enjoy freedom must endeavor to preserve it."


                        "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms…"
                        Thomas Jefferson



                         

                        To: on3@yahoogroups.com
                        From: bigbiggarage@...
                        Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 07:55:56 -0400
                        Subject: [on3] Cool link for Roundhouse in O scale

                         
                        Anyone seen this site or seen the products?  Looks like a great place to get materials for building a Roundhouse.  I saw this posted on the Sn3 list.
                         
                        http://monstermodelworks.com/ 
                         
                        William
                        aka drgwk37

                         





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