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RE: [on3] PSC Climax Kit

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  • JGG KahnSr
    I was thinking of the PFM when I specified class B (I believe MTH did one for three-rail, not sure whether it was also available in two-rail). Hard to judge
    Message 1 of 5 , Jun 28, 2013
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      I was thinking of the PFM when I specified class B (I believe MTH did one for three-rail, not sure whether it was also 
      available in two-rail).  Hard to judge the size.  As I said about the CW, which is supposed to be a 40-ton (I think based 
      on the one from WV that used to be at Edaville) but seems more in the 30-35T range.  The PSC kit is considerably larger 
      than the CW.  Whatever prototype was used (and one has to assume they had one in mind--too late to ask either Braun
      or Armitage), it seems to have been one produced before WWI, say 1905-1915.  Although the Climax book lists specs for 
      the various classes, details which should identify where in the production a given prototype seem to be all over the map.
      I think the authors point out that there were apparently no erection drawings, that each order was put together on the spot,
      using what was mostly on hand at the time.  Normally, that would mean knowing which prototype was used for the model 
      would be even more important, but that information is gone with the wind.

      Perhaps someone on the list had heard from Braun or Armitage in the past and can provide the information.

      Jace Kahn
      General Manager
      Ceres & Canisteo RR Co./Champlain County Traction Co.



      > To: on3@yahoogroups.com
      > From: leetown@...
      > Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 17:13:26 -0400
      > Subject: Re: [on3] PSC Climax Kit
      >
      > Hi Jace,
      >
      > I'd reckon the 42 ton PSC kit is actually rather like a 50 ton, such as at Clark's Trading post, or Micro cast messed up and did another 17/64ths scale model like Lobaugh did! Enjoy!
      > Mine was a 35 toner, which PSCo (IH) did again, but with some drive changes, , in the late 90s I guess.. or early 2000's. C&NW#2 was a 50 ton 3 trucker, only one in 3' that Climax ever did. I only made 2-3 of them. PFM did the Hillcrest #10 in O ga. also. 3 tr. 70 ton .
      >
      > Best,
      > Lee
      >
      >
      > On Jun 28, 2013, at 4:58 PM, JGG KahnSr <jacekahn@...> wrote:
      >
      > >
      > > I finally got around to dealing with the started kit I'd had for four or five years; it replaced the
      > > brand-new kit I'd bought in the 1980's which I sold when I bought a Car Works Climax and figured
      > > I couldn't justify both (my late wife helped me grasp that point, but she is gone now and I no longer
      > > need to save for my old age--it's here).
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
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    • Layton Snover Sr.
      ... Hi Jace, Stan R. (The Car Works) and I measured the labeled 40 ton Climax at the Strausburg RR Museum, on two different occasions. It does not take
      Message 2 of 5 , Jun 28, 2013
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        On Jun 28, 2013, at 5:22 PM, JGG KahnSr <jacekahn@...> wrote:

        >
        > I was thinking of the PFM when I specified class B (I believe MTH did one for three-rail, not sure whether it was also
        > available in two-rail). Hard to judge the size. As I said about the CW, which is supposed to be a 40-ton (I think based
        > on the one from WV that used to be at Edaville) but seems more in the 30-35T range. The PSC kit is considerably larger
        > than the CW. Whatever prototype was used (and one has to assume they had one in mind--too late to ask either Braun
        > or Armitage), it seems to have been one produced before WWI, say 1905-1915. Although the Climax book lists specs for
        > the various classes, details which should identify where in the production a given prototype seem to be all over the map.
        > I think the authors point out that there were apparently no erection drawings, that each order was put together on the spot,
        > using what was mostly on hand at the time. Normally, that would mean knowing which prototype was used for the model
        > would be even more important, but that information is gone with the wind.
        >
        > Perhaps someone on the list had heard from Braun or Armitage in the past and can provide the information.
        >
        > Jace Kahn
        > General Manager

        Hi Jace,

        Stan R. (The Car Works) and I measured the "labeled 40 ton" Climax at the Strausburg RR Museum, on two different occasions. It does not take much (in this case, a wagon top type boiler) to gain 5 tons. So I tend to think that the Car Works Model, (slide valve) is as close as possible/probable for a model. Ditto PFMs 70 ton Class C, and PSCo's (and LeeTown's) 35 ton units. Also ALCO Models Australian 28 ton Model. All scale out OK.
        Walter Casler helped me measure the one in the Museum at Corry, in 1968, But it is missing the ashpan.

        IMHO, the discussed "42 ton" model is way outta scale.. Nuff said.

        Very best,
        Lee
      • JGG KahnSr
        Along with the notorious Westside Heisler (I think the story I heard is that the Japanese doubled the sizeof the HO drawings--still not an enormous locomotive,
        Message 3 of 5 , Jun 28, 2013
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          Along with the notorious Westside Heisler (I think the story I heard is that the Japanese doubled the size
          of the HO drawings--still not an enormous locomotive, just not correct for the WSL prototype), the Max 
          Gray Shay, and the Lobaugh Climax (probably equates to at least a 65T prototype).  Perhaps the K-Line 
          Shay, too, although that may simply have been based on a larger two-trucker.

          I defer to you on the matter of wagon top boilers, although SNY #1 (the one now at Corry) was reportedly  25-28T,
          while #44 (from Emporium Lumber) with a straight boiler was at least 30T.  Odd that more of the O scale offerings 
          have not been with straight boilers, certainly easier to manufacture.  I don't know, if I ever did, whether the one 
          now at PA Rail Museum is the Mason Lumber one that used to be at Edaville or the one that was at Warehouse Point 
          for many years (it seems as when they finally got it restored it almost immediately was sold).  I think the Warehouse 
          Point one was the larger of them.

          And I forgot the Flying Zoo 18T in On3; I obtained the Taber/Kline/Casler set for Shozo Inoue while I was stationed 
          in Japan and pointed out the drawings in one of them.  I once had one but that was during the years I was trying to 
          stay out of On3 and someone offered me enough to tempt me into parting with it.  I liked it a lot, although now with 
          the Bachmann it is hard to justify the prices they bring to replace it.

          Jace Kahn
          General Manager
          Ceres & Canisteo RR Co./Champlain County Traction Co.



          > To: on3@yahoogroups.com
          > From: leetown@...
          > Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 17:49:51 -0400
          > Subject: Re: [on3] PSC Climax Kit
          >
          >
          > On Jun 28, 2013, at 5:22 PM, JGG KahnSr <jacekahn@...> wrote:
          >
          > >
          > > I was thinking of the PFM when I specified class B (I believe MTH did one for three-rail, not sure whether it was also
          > > available in two-rail). Hard to judge the size. As I said about the CW, which is supposed to be a 40-ton (I think based
          > > on the one from WV that used to be at Edaville) but seems more in the 30-35T range. The PSC kit is considerably larger
          > > than the CW. Whatever prototype was used (and one has to assume they had one in mind--too late to ask either Braun
          > > or Armitage), it seems to have been one produced before WWI, say 1905-1915. Although the Climax book lists specs for
          > > the various classes, details which should identify where in the production a given prototype seem to be all over the map.
          > > I think the authors point out that there were apparently no erection drawings, that each order was put together on the spot,
          > > using what was mostly on hand at the time. Normally, that would mean knowing which prototype was used for the model
          > > would be even more important, but that information is gone with the wind.
          > >
          > > Perhaps someone on the list had heard from Braun or Armitage in the past and can provide the information.
          > >
          > > Jace Kahn
          > > General Manager
          >
          > Hi Jace,
          >
          > Stan R. (The Car Works) and I measured the "labeled 40 ton" Climax at the Strausburg RR Museum, on two different occasions. It does not take much (in this case, a wagon top type boiler) to gain 5 tons. So I tend to think that the Car Works Model, (slide valve) is as close as possible/probable for a model. Ditto PFMs 70 ton Class C, and PSCo's (and LeeTown's) 35 ton units. Also ALCO Models Australian 28 ton Model. All scale out OK.
          > Walter Casler helped me measure the one in the Museum at Corry, in 1968, But it is missing the ashpan.
          >
          > IMHO, the discussed "42 ton" model is way outta scale.. Nuff said.
          >
          > Very best,
          > Lee
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Remember, additional On3 photos and files can now be found at:
          >
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/On3photos
          >
          > ThanksYahoo! Groups Links
          >
          > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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          >
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          >
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