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Re: [olivia] New 500Hz Olivia Frequencies (14076-14080) ?

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  • Vilnis YL2KF
    Dear Bonnie, at all , proposed by - We ???!!!! at least I am not in this WE group !!!! Please count me out - Vilnis Vosekalns , YL2KF . Using Olivia and all
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 19, 2006
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      Dear Bonnie, at all ,

      proposed by - We ???!!!! at least I am not in this WE group !!!!
      Please count me out - Vilnis Vosekalns , YL2KF .
      Using Olivia and all other modes too and do not see a reason to
      give such a drastic suggeastion to move down from 14.100 Khz with
      Olivia. This can start unnecessary frequency war with RTTY and MFSK16
      and so on. Do not know how to determine popular and unpopular mode but
      with full resposibility can say - Olivia is not popular mode.
      Segment 14.080 - 14.090 is mainly used for RTTY for years and still
      is popular mode. So, this segment is not proper place for experimental
      modes at all, as Olivia with all variations in bandwith is.

      With respect and love to all digital modes -

      YL2KF


      expeditionradio wrote:

      >I propose that we, as a group of Olivia operators, establish a
      >center-of-activity window for 500Hz Olivia operation,
      >between a USB dial frequency of 14076 and 14086kHz.
      >
      >To start, we could try 14076 to 14080.
      >
      >
      !!!

      >This is supported by national/international/IARU regional bandplans.
      >
      >The IARU Region 1 bandplan shows 500Hz bandwidth, non-automatic,
      >at 14070kHz to 14089kHz. This is the proper place for 500Hz Olivia.
      >
      >In both USA and IARU Region 1 bandplans:
      >14101kHz to 14112kHz area is the only 20m segment available for
      >unattended or automatic data stations 2700Hz to operate.
      >We should avoid 14101kHz to 14112kHz whenever possible for keyboarding.
      >
      >In all cases, we should avoid Olivia use above 14108.5kHz.
      >Growing QRM from popular Olivia forced the International ALE
      >Network to move up from where it was for 5 years (14107.5kHz) to
      >14109.5kHz in year 2005. It is now sharing 14109.5 with MT63,
      >Packet, and Pactor operations. 14109.5kHz is the highest frequency
      >the ALE Network and the wideband automatic data stations can go.
      >
      >To view a collection of IARU region bandplans and various national
      >bandplans, click here:
      >http://www.hflink.com/bandplans/
      >
      >73---Bonnie KQ6XA
      >
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      >
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
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    • Andrew O'Brien
      For what it s worth, I have found that ALE and Olivia hams can live hapilly within a few hundred Hz of each other. The trend already seems to be that Olivia
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 19, 2006
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        For what it's worth, I have found that ALE and Olivia hams can live hapilly within a few hundred Hz of each other.  The trend already seems to be that Olivia folks (especially Europeans) are staying below 14.109.5  I think the original Olivia suggestion was that they avoid 14.109 since they claimed MT63ers used it.  Since MT63 activity is low, 14090 seems good for ALE , MT63, an a little residual noise from the Olivia party down the dial.  I have found that the ALE bursts don't do much to Olivia.  I'm not sure how ALE data bursts suffer when Olivia chirps her merry song.
         
        Andy K3UK


         
        On 2/19/06, Vilnis YL2KF <yl2kf@...> wrote:

        Dear Bonnie, at all ,

        proposed by - We ???!!!!   at least I am not in this WE group !!!!
        Please count me out - Vilnis Vosekalns , YL2KF .
        Using Olivia and all other modes too and do not see a reason to
        give such a drastic suggeastion to move down from 14.100 Khz with
        Olivia. This can start unnecessary frequency war with RTTY and MFSK16
        and so on. Do not know how to determine popular and unpopular mode but
        with full resposibility can say - Olivia is not popular mode.
        Segment 14.080 - 14.090 is mainly used for RTTY for years and still
        is popular mode. So, this segment is not proper place for experimental
        modes at all, as Olivia with all variations in bandwith is.

        With respect and love to all digital modes -

        YL2KF


        expeditionradio wrote:

        >I propose that we, as a group of Olivia operators, establish a
        >center-of-activity window for 500Hz Olivia operation,
        >between a USB dial frequency of 14076 and 14086kHz.
        >
        >To start, we could try 14076 to 14080.
        >
        >
        !!!

        >This is supported by national/international/IARU regional bandplans.
        >
        >The IARU Region 1 bandplan shows 500Hz bandwidth, non-automatic,
        >at 14070kHz to 14089kHz. This is the proper place for 500Hz Olivia.
        >
        >In both USA and IARU Region 1 bandplans:
        >14101kHz to 14112kHz area is the only 20m segment available for
        >unattended or automatic data stations 2700Hz to operate.
        >We should avoid 14101kHz to 14112kHz whenever possible for keyboarding.
        >
        >In all cases, we should avoid Olivia use above 14108.5kHz.
        >Growing QRM from popular Olivia forced the International ALE
        >Network to move up from where it was for 5 years (14107.5kHz) to
        >14109.5kHz in year 2005. It is now sharing 14109.5 with MT63,
        >Packet, and Pactor operations. 14109.5kHz is the highest frequency
        >the ALE Network and the wideband automatic data stations can go.
        >
        >To view a collection of IARU region bandplans and various national
        >bandplans, click here:
        >http://www.hflink.com/bandplans/
        >
        >73---Bonnie KQ6XA
        >
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        >
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
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        >







        Yahoo! Groups Links

        <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
           http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oliviadata/

        <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
           oliviadata-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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        --
        Andy
      • expeditionradio
        ... Hi Andy, You and I operate both ALE and Olivia. There are some other Olivia ops who run ALE also. I have seen no problems so far with Olivia 1000/x on
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 19, 2006
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          ><Andy K3UK wrote><
          > For what it's worth, I have found that ALE and Olivia hams
          > can live hapilly within a few hundred Hz of each other.
          > ... I'm not sure how ALE data bursts suffer when Olivia
          > chirps her merry song.

          Hi Andy,

          You and I operate both ALE and Olivia. There are some other Olivia
          ops who run ALE also. I have seen no problems so far with
          Olivia 1000/x on 14108.5kHz USB and ALE on 14109.5kHz USB.

          As you mentioned, there is about 250Hz guard-band between the signals,
          and this seems to be enough separation for both ALE and Olivia to
          co-exist peacefully without interference, even with strong signals.
          Immediately above the ALE net on 14109.5, is the start of the 20m
          international SSB voice band at 14112kHz.

          For those who are not familiar with ALE: it is an 8FSK signal, about
          2kHz wide, with 8 audio carrier tones, 750Hz to 2500Hz.

          The international amateur ALE network is not an HF email system.
          HF operators use ALE for selective calling, to begin QSOs, study
          propagation, find band openings, and for HF emergency nets.
          Most ALE stations run 100W or less. Hams have adopted an existing
          international ALE standard, and HF transceivers are available with
          ALE hardware options in them (not requiring external computers).

          An article about Amateur HF ALE, with spectrum images and detailed
          information is on the web at:
          http://www.hflink.com/articles/

          Bonnie KQ6XA
        • jevacuum
          Dear Bonnie, I strongly support your idea for 500 Hz Olivia. You might want to define what you mean by dial freq. The term center freq better defines the
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 1, 2006
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            Dear Bonnie,

            I strongly support your idea for 500 Hz Olivia. You might want to
            define what you mean by dial freq. The term "center freq" better
            defines the spectrum used. Also, I would say that we could start at
            14074.0 MHz and work up from there. See you all there.

            Yours truly, Eric - K9NP









            -- In oliviadata@yahoogroups.com, "expeditionradio"
            <expeditionradio@...> wrote:
            >
            > I propose that we, as a group of Olivia operators, establish a
            > center-of-activity window for 500Hz Olivia operation,
            > between a USB dial frequency of 14076 and 14086kHz.
            >
            > To start, we could try 14076 to 14080.
            > This is supported by national/international/IARU regional
            bandplans.
            >
            > The IARU Region 1 bandplan shows 500Hz bandwidth, non-automatic,
            > at 14070kHz to 14089kHz. This is the proper place for 500Hz
            Olivia.
            >
            > In both USA and IARU Region 1 bandplans:
            > 14101kHz to 14112kHz area is the only 20m segment available for
            > unattended or automatic data stations 2700Hz to operate.
            > We should avoid 14101kHz to 14112kHz whenever possible for
            keyboarding.
            >
            > In all cases, we should avoid Olivia use above 14108.5kHz.
            > Growing QRM from popular Olivia forced the International ALE
            > Network to move up from where it was for 5 years (14107.5kHz) to
            > 14109.5kHz in year 2005. It is now sharing 14109.5 with MT63,
            > Packet, and Pactor operations. 14109.5kHz is the highest frequency
            > the ALE Network and the wideband automatic data stations can go.
            >
            > To view a collection of IARU region bandplans and various national
            > bandplans, click here:
            > http://www.hflink.com/bandplans/
            >
            > 73---Bonnie KQ6XA
            >
          • expeditionradio
            ... Hi Eric, Yes, center frequency is useful, but unfortunately, it is widely mis-interpreted by hams, especially with new types of digital emissions (notice
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 1, 2006
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              > Dear Bonnie,
              >
              > I strongly support your idea for 500 Hz Olivia. You might want to
              > define what you mean by dial freq. The term "center freq" better
              > defines the spectrum used. Also, I would say that we could start at
              > 14074.0 MHz and work up from there. See you all there.
              >
              > Yours truly, Eric - K9NP

              Hi Eric,

              Yes, "center frequency" is useful, but unfortunately, it is
              widely mis-interpreted by hams, especially with new types of digital
              emissions (notice the PSK31 freqs). Dial frequency is much easier
              for most operators to use, with fewer errors.

              The common Olivia practice has been to use "dial frequency Upper
              SideBand", and (default) transmit the lowest tone slightly above
              500Hz. For an Olivia 500 signal, this puts the center at 750Hz. For an
              Olivia 1000 signal, this puts the center at 1000Hz. This configuration
              is compatible with common transceiver passbands.

              Because Olivia can decode through noisy propagation conditions when
              humans cannot tune it visually or by ear, there is a great advantage
              to agreements for fixed dial frequencies (channels).

              I am a careful operator, able to hear signals deep in the
              noise, but I have often been surprised to see QSOs print on an Olivia
              "channel" (or replies to my CQ) when I honestly did not notice there
              was a station transmitting!

              Olivia 20 metre frequencies (channels):

              Olivia 500: (USB dial frequencies)
              14075.5/*14076.0/14076.5/14077.0/14077.5/14078.0

              Olivia 1000: (USB dial frequencies)
              14105.5/14106.5/*14107.5/14108.5
              *calling


              73---Bonnie KQ6XA
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