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Re: [olivia] Digital Modes But Not 5 Micro-Bands Re: FCC Changes 5MHz

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  • Ken Meinken
    Well at first I was excited about the new rules but as I read the restrictions and what they don t want on the band, it seems of no value and I ll probably
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 20, 2011
      Well at first I was excited about the new rules but as I read the restrictions and what they don't want on the band, it seems of no value and I'll probably just delete it from the memory settings on my rig. They don't want quick canned macros, they don't want CQs, they don't want ragchews. Sounds like it's best to just forget the channels.

      Thanks for the update.

      Ken
      WA8JXM

      On Nov 20, 2011, at 7:07 AM, expeditionradio wrote:

      > As I interpret the FCC's Report and Order, it
      > appears that FCC does not intend for the new
      > 5MHz rules to provide 5 channels that become
      > 5 "Micro-Bands" with 20 or 30 PSK or CW signals
      > stacked horizontally between each 2.8kHz channel edge.
      > Please correct me if FCC has interpreted otherwise.
    • W2XJ
      The FCC was very specific in permitting only PSK 31 and Pactor III as digital modes. There seems to be a lot of misinformation be spread on several discussion
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 20, 2011
        The FCC was very specific in permitting only PSK 31 and Pactor III as digital modes. There seems to be a lot of misinformation be spread on several discussion groups by a few so called experts that suggests otherwise.

        On 11/20/11 7:07 AM, expeditionradio wrote:
         



        As I interpret the FCC's Report and Order, it
        appears that FCC does not intend for the new
        5MHz rules to provide 5 channels that become
        5 "Micro-Bands" with 20 or 30 PSK or CW signals
        stacked horizontally between each 2.8kHz channel edge.
        Please correct me if FCC has interpreted otherwise.

        However, FCC has provided some leeway for Phone,
        Data and RTTY modes to operate near the center of
        the 5MHz channels within the capabilities of normal
        digital modems and voice timbre tonalities, without
        fear of exact calibration errors, as long as the
        signal is kept within the rigid 2.8kHz channel.

        A particular indication of some flexibility is
        the detailed rule that spells out the permitted use
        of the -1.5kHz offset of the supressed carrier frequency
        for Phone, Data, and RTTY (instead of -1.4kHz or some
        other offset) from the center of channel frequency.

        Indeed, FCC has not specified any required
        frequency tolerances or accuracy for center of
        emissions being in the exact center of the channel.

        However, there is clearly intent for signals not
        to exceed 2.8kHz total bandwidth with reference
        to the center, and this seems more like a quite
        strict accuracy requirement.

        It also appears that much of the intent of these
        rules do not point toward long rag-chews and
        brag file sessions by a chorus of simultaneous PSK31
        stations, and probably not the long fluting of
        JT65 and WSPR signals constantly beaconing or
        striving for a reverse beacon somewhere.

        With the new rules in effect, hams in USA can now
        be better prepared to use the 5MHz channels
        for NVIS and regional traffic in Emergency
        Communications and Disaster Response.

        In the REPORT AND ORDER, the FCC adopted this language:

        "(h) 60 m band: (1) In the 5330.5-5406.4 kHz band
        (60 m band), amateur stations may transmit only
        on the five center frequencies specified in
        the table below. In order to meet this requirement,
        control operators of stations transmitting phone,
        data, and RTTY emissions (emission designators
        2K80J3E, 2K80J2D, and 60H0J2B, respectively) may
        set the carrier frequency 1.5 kHz below the center
        frequency as specified in the table below.
        For CW emissions (emission designator 150HA1A),
        the carrier frequency is set to the center frequency.
        Amateur operators shall ensure that their emissions
        do not occupy more than 2.8 kHz centered on each
        of these center frequencies. "

        IMHO...
        Best Regards,
        Bonnie Crystal KQ6XA

      • Matt Maguire
        If you read paragraph 18 of the report, you see the FCC did draft a proposed set of rules which restricted the new modes specifically to CW, PSK31 and
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 20, 2011
          If you read paragraph 18 of the report, you see the FCC did draft a proposed set of rules which restricted the new modes specifically to CW, PSK31 and PACTOR-III, and circulated the proposal for comment. They received feedback from various commenters, and in paragraph 25 where they document their decision, they only say that PSK31 and PACTOR-III *exemplify* (ie. are examples of) emissions they correspond to the new designators.

          Further, in paragraph 28, the FCC says it agrees that restricting to just PSK31 and PACTOR-III will discourage development of newer more efficient techniques, so they will permit unspecified data codes, rather than restricting to PSK31 and PACTOR-III (as long as the mode is consistent with the emission designator, of course)

          So, it seems the intention is to drop the PSK31/PACTOR-III. It will be interesting to see how the rules finally end up.

          73, Matt VK2ACL


          On 21/11/2011, at 3:12 AM, W2XJ <w2xj@...> wrote:

          The FCC was very specific in permitting only PSK 31 and Pactor III as digital modes. There seems to be a lot of misinformation be spread on several discussion groups by a few so called experts that suggests otherwise.

          On 11/20/11 7:07 AM, expeditionradio wrote:
           



          As I interpret the FCC's Report and Order, it
          appears that FCC does not intend for the new
          5MHz rules to provide 5 channels that become
          5 "Micro-Bands" with 20 or 30 PSK or CW signals
          stacked horizontally between each 2.8kHz channel edge.
          Please correct me if FCC has interpreted otherwise.

          However, FCC has provided some leeway for Phone,
          Data and RTTY modes to operate near the center of
          the 5MHz channels within the capabilities of normal
          digital modems and voice timbre tonalities, without
          fear of exact calibration errors, as long as the
          signal is kept within the rigid 2.8kHz channel.

          A particular indication of some flexibility is
          the detailed rule that spells out the permitted use
          of the -1.5kHz offset of the supressed carrier frequency
          for Phone, Data, and RTTY (instead of -1.4kHz or some
          other offset) from the center of channel frequency.

          Indeed, FCC has not specified any required
          frequency tolerances or accuracy for center of
          emissions being in the exact center of the channel.

          However, there is clearly intent for signals not
          to exceed 2.8kHz total bandwidth with reference
          to the center, and this seems more like a quite
          strict accuracy requirement.

          It also appears that much of the intent of these
          rules do not point toward long rag-chews and
          brag file sessions by a chorus of simultaneous PSK31
          stations, and probably not the long fluting of
          JT65 and WSPR signals constantly beaconing or
          striving for a reverse beacon somewhere.

          With the new rules in effect, hams in USA can now
          be better prepared to use the 5MHz channels
          for NVIS and regional traffic in Emergency
          Communications and Disaster Response.

          In the REPORT AND ORDER, the FCC adopted this language:

          "(h) 60 m band: (1) In the 5330.5-5406.4 kHz band
          (60 m band), amateur stations may transmit only
          on the five center frequencies specified in
          the table below. In order to meet this requirement,
          control operators of stations transmitting phone,
          data, and RTTY emissions (emission designators
          2K80J3E, 2K80J2D, and 60H0J2B, respectively) may
          set the carrier frequency 1.5 kHz below the center
          frequency as specified in the table below.
          For CW emissions (emission designator 150HA1A),
          the carrier frequency is set to the center frequency.
          Amateur operators shall ensure that their emissions
          do not occupy more than 2.8 kHz centered on each
          of these center frequencies. "

          IMHO...
          Best Regards,
          Bonnie Crystal KQ6XA

        • Matt Maguire
          Forgot to include a link to the document I was referencing below: http://www.fcc.gov/document/amateur-radio-service-5-mhz /Matt VK2ACL
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 20, 2011
            Forgot to include a link to the document I was referencing below:

            /Matt VK2ACL


            On 21/11/2011, at 8:30 AM, Matt Maguire <vk2acl@...> wrote:

            If you read paragraph 18 of the report, you see the FCC did draft a proposed set of rules which restricted the new modes specifically to CW, PSK31 and PACTOR-III, and circulated the proposal for comment. They received feedback from various commenters, and in paragraph 25 where they document their decision, they only say that PSK31 and PACTOR-III *exemplify* (ie. are examples of) emissions they correspond to the new designators.

            Further, in paragraph 28, the FCC says it agrees that restricting to just PSK31 and PACTOR-III will discourage development of newer more efficient techniques, so they will permit unspecified data codes, rather than restricting to PSK31 and PACTOR-III (as long as the mode is consistent with the emission designator, of course)

            So, it seems the intention is to drop the PSK31/PACTOR-III. It will be interesting to see how the rules finally end up.

            73, Matt VK2ACL


            On 21/11/2011, at 3:12 AM, W2XJ <w2xj@...> wrote:

            The FCC was very specific in permitting only PSK 31 and Pactor III as digital modes. There seems to be a lot of misinformation be spread on several discussion groups by a few so called experts that suggests otherwise.

            On 11/20/11 7:07 AM, expeditionradio wrote:
             



            As I interpret the FCC's Report and Order, it
            appears that FCC does not intend for the new
            5MHz rules to provide 5 channels that become
            5 "Micro-Bands" with 20 or 30 PSK or CW signals
            stacked horizontally between each 2.8kHz channel edge.
            Please correct me if FCC has interpreted otherwise.

            However, FCC has provided some leeway for Phone,
            Data and RTTY modes to operate near the center of
            the 5MHz channels within the capabilities of normal
            digital modems and voice timbre tonalities, without
            fear of exact calibration errors, as long as the
            signal is kept within the rigid 2.8kHz channel.

            A particular indication of some flexibility is
            the detailed rule that spells out the permitted use
            of the -1.5kHz offset of the supressed carrier frequency
            for Phone, Data, and RTTY (instead of -1.4kHz or some
            other offset) from the center of channel frequency.

            Indeed, FCC has not specified any required
            frequency tolerances or accuracy for center of
            emissions being in the exact center of the channel.

            However, there is clearly intent for signals not
            to exceed 2.8kHz total bandwidth with reference
            to the center, and this seems more like a quite
            strict accuracy requirement.

            It also appears that much of the intent of these
            rules do not point toward long rag-chews and
            brag file sessions by a chorus of simultaneous PSK31
            stations, and probably not the long fluting of
            JT65 and WSPR signals constantly beaconing or
            striving for a reverse beacon somewhere.

            With the new rules in effect, hams in USA can now
            be better prepared to use the 5MHz channels
            for NVIS and regional traffic in Emergency
            Communications and Disaster Response.

            In the REPORT AND ORDER, the FCC adopted this language:

            "(h) 60 m band: (1) In the 5330.5-5406.4 kHz band
            (60 m band), amateur stations may transmit only
            on the five center frequencies specified in
            the table below. In order to meet this requirement,
            control operators of stations transmitting phone,
            data, and RTTY emissions (emission designators
            2K80J3E, 2K80J2D, and 60H0J2B, respectively) may
            set the carrier frequency 1.5 kHz below the center
            frequency as specified in the table below.
            For CW emissions (emission designator 150HA1A),
            the carrier frequency is set to the center frequency.
            Amateur operators shall ensure that their emissions
            do not occupy more than 2.8 kHz centered on each
            of these center frequencies. "

            IMHO...
            Best Regards,
            Bonnie Crystal KQ6XA

          • Matt Maguire
            Just realised: the final rules are published in appendix B of the doc below. As you can see, the PSK31/PACTOR-III-only restriction has indeed been dropped from
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 20, 2011
              Just realised: the final rules are published in appendix B of the doc below. As you can see, the PSK31/PACTOR-III-only restriction has indeed been dropped from the final rules (ref 97.307(f)(14)(i)), so you should be able to use Olivia no problem when the new rules come into effect.

              I'll be listening for you in VK-land (EE don't have TX privileges for this band yet)

              73, Matt VK2ACL



              On 21/11/2011, at 8:42 AM, Matt Maguire <vk2acl@...> wrote:

              Forgot to include a link to the document I was referencing below:

              /Matt VK2ACL


              On 21/11/2011, at 8:30 AM, Matt Maguire <vk2acl@...> wrote:

              If you read paragraph 18 of the report, you see the FCC did draft a proposed set of rules which restricted the new modes specifically to CW, PSK31 and PACTOR-III, and circulated the proposal for comment. They received feedback from various commenters, and in paragraph 25 where they document their decision, they only say that PSK31 and PACTOR-III *exemplify* (ie. are examples of) emissions they correspond to the new designators.

              Further, in paragraph 28, the FCC says it agrees that restricting to just PSK31 and PACTOR-III will discourage development of newer more efficient techniques, so they will permit unspecified data codes, rather than restricting to PSK31 and PACTOR-III (as long as the mode is consistent with the emission designator, of course)

              So, it seems the intention is to drop the PSK31/PACTOR-III. It will be interesting to see how the rules finally end up.

              73, Matt VK2ACL


              On 21/11/2011, at 3:12 AM, W2XJ <w2xj@...> wrote:

              The FCC was very specific in permitting only PSK 31 and Pactor III as digital modes. There seems to be a lot of misinformation be spread on several discussion groups by a few so called experts that suggests otherwise.

              On 11/20/11 7:07 AM, expeditionradio wrote:
               



              As I interpret the FCC's Report and Order, it
              appears that FCC does not intend for the new
              5MHz rules to provide 5 channels that become
              5 "Micro-Bands" with 20 or 30 PSK or CW signals
              stacked horizontally between each 2.8kHz channel edge.
              Please correct me if FCC has interpreted otherwise.

              However, FCC has provided some leeway for Phone,
              Data and RTTY modes to operate near the center of
              the 5MHz channels within the capabilities of normal
              digital modems and voice timbre tonalities, without
              fear of exact calibration errors, as long as the
              signal is kept within the rigid 2.8kHz channel.

              A particular indication of some flexibility is
              the detailed rule that spells out the permitted use
              of the -1.5kHz offset of the supressed carrier frequency
              for Phone, Data, and RTTY (instead of -1.4kHz or some
              other offset) from the center of channel frequency.

              Indeed, FCC has not specified any required
              frequency tolerances or accuracy for center of
              emissions being in the exact center of the channel.

              However, there is clearly intent for signals not
              to exceed 2.8kHz total bandwidth with reference
              to the center, and this seems more like a quite
              strict accuracy requirement.

              It also appears that much of the intent of these
              rules do not point toward long rag-chews and
              brag file sessions by a chorus of simultaneous PSK31
              stations, and probably not the long fluting of
              JT65 and WSPR signals constantly beaconing or
              striving for a reverse beacon somewhere.

              With the new rules in effect, hams in USA can now
              be better prepared to use the 5MHz channels
              for NVIS and regional traffic in Emergency
              Communications and Disaster Response.

              In the REPORT AND ORDER, the FCC adopted this language:

              "(h) 60 m band: (1) In the 5330.5-5406.4 kHz band
              (60 m band), amateur stations may transmit only
              on the five center frequencies specified in
              the table below. In order to meet this requirement,
              control operators of stations transmitting phone,
              data, and RTTY emissions (emission designators
              2K80J3E, 2K80J2D, and 60H0J2B, respectively) may
              set the carrier frequency 1.5 kHz below the center
              frequency as specified in the table below.
              For CW emissions (emission designator 150HA1A),
              the carrier frequency is set to the center frequency.
              Amateur operators shall ensure that their emissions
              do not occupy more than 2.8 kHz centered on each
              of these center frequencies. "

              IMHO...
              Best Regards,
              Bonnie Crystal KQ6XA

            • W2XJ
              I disagree. emission designators 2K80J3E, 2K80J2D, and 60H0J2B, are the only digital modes allowed. This is from the revision of part 97.
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 20, 2011
                I disagree.

                emission designators 2K80J3E, 2K80J2D, and 60H0J2B, are the only digital modes allowed. This is from the revision of part 97.

                On 11/20/11 5:33 PM, Matt Maguire wrote:  
                Just realised: the final rules are published in appendix B of the doc below. As you can see, the PSK31/PACTOR-III-only restriction has indeed been dropped from the final rules (ref 97.307(f)(14)(i)), so you should be able to use Olivia no problem when the new rules come into effect.

                I'll be listening for you in VK-land (EE don't have TX privileges for this band yet)

                73, Matt VK2ACL



                On 21/11/2011, at 8:42 AM, Matt Maguire <vk2acl@...> wrote:

                Forgot to include a link to the document I was referencing below:

                /Matt VK2ACL


                On 21/11/2011, at 8:30 AM, Matt Maguire <vk2acl@...> wrote:

                If you read paragraph 18 of the report, you see the FCC did draft a proposed set of rules which restricted the new modes specifically to CW, PSK31 and PACTOR-III, and circulated the proposal for comment. They received feedback from various commenters, and in paragraph 25 where they document their decision, they only say that PSK31 and PACTOR-III *exemplify* (ie. are examples of) emissions they correspond to the new designators.

                Further, in paragraph 28, the FCC says it agrees that restricting to just PSK31 and PACTOR-III will discourage development of newer more efficient techniques, so they will permit unspecified data codes, rather than restricting to PSK31 and PACTOR-III (as long as the mode is consistent with the emission designator, of course)

                So, it seems the intention is to drop the PSK31/PACTOR-III. It will be interesting to see how the rules finally end up.

                73, Matt VK2ACL


                On 21/11/2011, at 3:12 AM, W2XJ <w2xj@...> wrote:

                The FCC was very specific in permitting only PSK 31 and Pactor III as digital modes. There seems to be a lot of misinformation be spread on several discussion groups by a few so called experts that suggests otherwise.

                On 11/20/11 7:07 AM, expeditionradio wrote:
                 



                As I interpret the FCC's Report and Order, it
                appears that FCC does not intend for the new
                5MHz rules to provide 5 channels that become
                5 "Micro-Bands" with 20 or 30 PSK or CW signals
                stacked horizontally between each 2.8kHz channel edge.
                Please correct me if FCC has interpreted otherwise.

                However, FCC has provided some leeway for Phone,
                Data and RTTY modes to operate near the center of
                the 5MHz channels within the capabilities of normal
                digital modems and voice timbre tonalities, without
                fear of exact calibration errors, as long as the
                signal is kept within the rigid 2.8kHz channel.

                A particular indication of some flexibility is
                the detailed rule that spells out the permitted use
                of the -1.5kHz offset of the supressed carrier frequency
                for Phone, Data, and RTTY (instead of -1.4kHz or some
                other offset) from the center of channel frequency.

                Indeed, FCC has not specified any required
                frequency tolerances or accuracy for center of
                emissions being in the exact center of the channel.

                However, there is clearly intent for signals not
                to exceed 2.8kHz total bandwidth with reference
                to the center, and this seems more like a quite
                strict accuracy requirement.

                It also appears that much of the intent of these
                rules do not point toward long rag-chews and
                brag file sessions by a chorus of simultaneous PSK31
                stations, and probably not the long fluting of
                JT65 and WSPR signals constantly beaconing or
                striving for a reverse beacon somewhere.

                With the new rules in effect, hams in USA can now
                be better prepared to use the 5MHz channels
                for NVIS and regional traffic in Emergency
                Communications and Disaster Response.

                In the REPORT AND ORDER, the FCC adopted this language:

                "(h) 60 m band: (1) In the 5330.5-5406.4 kHz band
                (60 m band), amateur stations may transmit only
                on the five center frequencies specified in
                the table below. In order to meet this requirement,
                control operators of stations transmitting phone,
                data, and RTTY emissions (emission designators
                2K80J3E, 2K80J2D, and 60H0J2B, respectively) may
                set the carrier frequency 1.5 kHz below the center
                frequency as specified in the table below.
                For CW emissions (emission designator 150HA1A),
                the carrier frequency is set to the center frequency.
                Amateur operators shall ensure that their emissions
                do not occupy more than 2.8 kHz centered on each
                of these center frequencies. "

                IMHO...
                Best Regards,
                Bonnie Crystal KQ6XA

              • Matt Maguire
                That s right, and Olivia meets the requirements of a 2K80J2D emission. 73, Matt VK2ACL
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 20, 2011
                  That's right, and Olivia meets the requirements of a 2K80J2D emission.

                  73, Matt VK2ACL



                  On 21/11/2011, at 10:00 AM, W2XJ <w2xj@...> wrote:

                  I disagree.

                  emission designators 2K80J3E, 2K80J2D, and 60H0J2B, are the only digital modes allowed. This is from the revision of part 97.

                  On 11/20/11 5:33 PM, Matt Maguire wrote:
                   
                  Just realised: the final rules are published in appendix B of the doc below. As you can see, the PSK31/PACTOR-III-only restriction has indeed been dropped from the final rules (ref 97.307(f)(14)(i)), so you should be able to use Olivia no problem when the new rules come into effect.

                  I'll be listening for you in VK-land (EE don't have TX privileges for this band yet)

                  73, Matt VK2ACL



                  On 21/11/2011, at 8:42 AM, Matt Maguire <vk2acl@...> wrote:

                  Forgot to include a link to the document I was referencing below:

                  /Matt VK2ACL


                  On 21/11/2011, at 8:30 AM, Matt Maguire <vk2acl@...> wrote:

                  If you read paragraph 18 of the report, you see the FCC did draft a proposed set of rules which restricted the new modes specifically to CW, PSK31 and PACTOR-III, and circulated the proposal for comment. They received feedback from various commenters, and in paragraph 25 where they document their decision, they only say that PSK31 and PACTOR-III *exemplify* (ie. are examples of) emissions they correspond to the new designators.

                  Further, in paragraph 28, the FCC says it agrees that restricting to just PSK31 and PACTOR-III will discourage development of newer more efficient techniques, so they will permit unspecified data codes, rather than restricting to PSK31 and PACTOR-III (as long as the mode is consistent with the emission designator, of course)

                  So, it seems the intention is to drop the PSK31/PACTOR-III. It will be interesting to see how the rules finally end up.

                  73, Matt VK2ACL


                  On 21/11/2011, at 3:12 AM, W2XJ <w2xj@...> wrote:

                  The FCC was very specific in permitting only PSK 31 and Pactor III as digital modes. There seems to be a lot of misinformation be spread on several discussion groups by a few so called experts that suggests otherwise.

                  On 11/20/11 7:07 AM, expeditionradio wrote:
                   



                  As I interpret the FCC's Report and Order, it
                  appears that FCC does not intend for the new
                  5MHz rules to provide 5 channels that become
                  5 "Micro-Bands" with 20 or 30 PSK or CW signals
                  stacked horizontally between each 2.8kHz channel edge.
                  Please correct me if FCC has interpreted otherwise.

                  However, FCC has provided some leeway for Phone,
                  Data and RTTY modes to operate near the center of
                  the 5MHz channels within the capabilities of normal
                  digital modems and voice timbre tonalities, without
                  fear of exact calibration errors, as long as the
                  signal is kept within the rigid 2.8kHz channel.

                  A particular indication of some flexibility is
                  the detailed rule that spells out the permitted use
                  of the -1.5kHz offset of the supressed carrier frequency
                  for Phone, Data, and RTTY (instead of -1.4kHz or some
                  other offset) from the center of channel frequency.

                  Indeed, FCC has not specified any required
                  frequency tolerances or accuracy for center of
                  emissions being in the exact center of the channel.

                  However, there is clearly intent for signals not
                  to exceed 2.8kHz total bandwidth with reference
                  to the center, and this seems more like a quite
                  strict accuracy requirement.

                  It also appears that much of the intent of these
                  rules do not point toward long rag-chews and
                  brag file sessions by a chorus of simultaneous PSK31
                  stations, and probably not the long fluting of
                  JT65 and WSPR signals constantly beaconing or
                  striving for a reverse beacon somewhere.

                  With the new rules in effect, hams in USA can now
                  be better prepared to use the 5MHz channels
                  for NVIS and regional traffic in Emergency
                  Communications and Disaster Response.

                  In the REPORT AND ORDER, the FCC adopted this language:

                  "(h) 60 m band: (1) In the 5330.5-5406.4 kHz band
                  (60 m band), amateur stations may transmit only
                  on the five center frequencies specified in
                  the table below. In order to meet this requirement,
                  control operators of stations transmitting phone,
                  data, and RTTY emissions (emission designators
                  2K80J3E, 2K80J2D, and 60H0J2B, respectively) may
                  set the carrier frequency 1.5 kHz below the center
                  frequency as specified in the table below.
                  For CW emissions (emission designator 150HA1A),
                  the carrier frequency is set to the center frequency.
                  Amateur operators shall ensure that their emissions
                  do not occupy more than 2.8 kHz centered on each
                  of these center frequencies. "

                  IMHO...
                  Best Regards,
                  Bonnie Crystal KQ6XA

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