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The 30m Band Utilization Chart -- 2 June 2011

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  • Ian Wade G3NRW
    Just in time for the 30m Multi Mode weekend -- 4/5 June 2011. A few weeks ago Don Hobson, KB9UMT, founder of the 30m Digital Group, published the updated
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 2, 2011
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      Just in time for the 30m Multi Mode weekend -- 4/5 June 2011.

      A few weeks ago Don Hobson, KB9UMT, founder of the 30m Digital Group,
      published the updated "unofficial 30m bandplan" on the 30MDG reflector.
      I responded, saying that the listing was a little misleading, because
      some frequencies were dial frequencies, others were emitted frequencies,
      and it wasn't clear which was which.

      Don challenged me to do better. At first I tried to improve the listing
      format, to draw the distinction between dial and emitted frequencies,
      but quickly realized this was not an easy task! I finally capitulated
      and decided on a graphical format instead:

      http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wadei/30m_band_utilization.htm

      I have called it a "Band Utilization" chart. It is exactly that. It is
      not a "bandplan", nor even an "unofficial bandplan". Rather, it is an
      attempt to graphically portray the many modes that are actually in use
      on 30m today. On the chart there is a clear distinction between dial
      frequencies and emitted frequencies, helping you to accurately set the
      correct frequency and to identify signals as they appear on the
      waterfall.

      Prior to posting the chart on my website, I sent a couple of draft
      versions to a number of the world's "movers and shakers" in digital
      communication and HF. Several of them responded with very helpful
      comments, suggestions and corrections, for which I am very grateful.

      It's been an "interesting" exercise to fit everything in, but I hope you
      will find the finished chart useful. I think you will be intrigued to
      see just how much is squeezed into the band, especially above 10.140. In
      particular, the graphical approach highlights several overlaps between
      modes, which (to me at least) weren't at all obvious from the tabular
      frequency listing. I was also unaware of just how many Winlink RMS
      stations are active: no less than 48 stations on 32 frequencies, mostly
      above 10.140.

      The chart is a living document. If you see any errors or omissions, or
      want to suggest improvements, please email me at g3nrw@...

      Enjoy the Multi Mode weekend!

      --
      73
      Ian, G3NRW
    • Hal
      Ian, That is a great chart! Thanks very very helpful. 73 Hal WD4MDA From: Ian Wade G3NRW Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 04:16 To: oliviadata@yahoogroups.com
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 2, 2011
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        Ian,
        That is a great chart!
        Thanks very very helpful.
        73
        Hal
        WD4MDA
         
        Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 04:16
        Subject: [olivia] The 30m Band Utilization Chart -- 2 June 2011
         
         

        Just in time for the 30m Multi Mode weekend -- 4/5 June 2011.

        A few weeks ago Don Hobson, KB9UMT, founder of the 30m Digital Group,
        published the updated "unofficial 30m bandplan" on the 30MDG reflector.
        I responded, saying that the listing was a little misleading, because
        some frequencies were dial frequencies, others were emitted frequencies,
        and it wasn't clear which was which.

        Don challenged me to do better. At first I tried to improve the listing
        format, to draw the distinction between dial and emitted frequencies,
        but quickly realized this was not an easy task! I finally capitulated
        and decided on a graphical format instead:

        http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wadei/30m_band_utilization.htm

        I have called it a "Band Utilization" chart. It is exactly that. It is
        not a "bandplan", nor even an "unofficial bandplan". Rather, it is an
        attempt to graphically portray the many modes that are actually in use
        on 30m today. On the chart there is a clear distinction between dial
        frequencies and emitted frequencies, helping you to accurately set the
        correct frequency and to identify signals as they appear on the
        waterfall.

        Prior to posting the chart on my website, I sent a couple of draft
        versions to a number of the world's "movers and shakers" in digital
        communication and HF. Several of them responded with very helpful
        comments, suggestions and corrections, for which I am very grateful.

        It's been an "interesting" exercise to fit everything in, but I hope you
        will find the finished chart useful. I think you will be intrigued to
        see just how much is squeezed into the band, especially above 10.140. In
        particular, the graphical approach highlights several overlaps between
        modes, which (to me at least) weren't at all obvious from the tabular
        frequency listing. I was also unaware of just how many Winlink RMS
        stations are active: no less than 48 stations on 32 frequencies, mostly
        above 10.140.

        The chart is a living document. If you see any errors or omissions, or
        want to suggest improvements, please email me at mailto:g3nrw%40yahoo.co.uk

        Enjoy the Multi Mode weekend!

        --
        73
        Ian, G3NRW

      • jsodus
        Job very well done, Ian. Hard work pays off. 73 Jerry KM3K _____ From: oliviadata@yahoogroups.com [mailto:oliviadata@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hal Sent:
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 2, 2011
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          Job very well done, Ian.

          Hard work pays off.

          73 Jerry KM3K

           


          From: oliviadata@yahoogroups.com [mailto: oliviadata@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Hal
          Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 1:14 PM
          To: oliviadata@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [olivia] The 30m Band Utilization Chart -- 2 June 2011

           

           

          Ian,

          That is a great chart!

          Thanks very very helpful.

          73

          Hal

          WD4MDA

           

          Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 04:16

          Subject: [olivia] The 30m Band Utilization Chart -- 2 June 2011

           

           

          Just in time for the 30m Multi Mode weekend -- 4/5 June 2011.

          A few weeks ago Don Hobson, KB9UMT, founder of the 30m Digital Group,
          published the updated "unofficial 30m bandplan" on the 30MDG reflector.
          I responded, saying that the listing was a little misleading, because
          some frequencies were dial frequencies, others were emitted frequencies,
          and it wasn't clear which was which.

          Don challenged me to do better. At first I tried to improve the listing
          format, to draw the distinction between dial and emitted frequencies,
          but quickly realized this was not an easy task! I finally capitulated
          and decided on a graphical format instead:

          http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wadei/30m_band_utilization.htm

          I have called it a "Band Utilization" chart. It is exactly that. It is
          not a "bandplan", nor even an "unofficial bandplan". Rather, it is an
          attempt to graphically portray the many modes that are actually in use
          on 30m today. On the chart there is a clear distinction between dial
          frequencies and emitted frequencies, helping you to accurately set the
          correct frequency and to identify signals as they appear on the
          waterfall.

          Prior to posting the chart on my website, I sent a couple of draft
          versions to a number of the world's "movers and shakers" in digital
          communication and HF. Several of them responded with very helpful
          comments, suggestions and corrections, for which I am very grateful.

          It's been an "interesting" exercise to fit everything in, but I hope you
          will find the finished chart useful. I think you will be intrigued to
          see just how much is squeezed into the band, especially above 10.140. In
          particular, the graphical approach highlights several overlaps between
          modes, which (to me at least) weren't at all obvious from the tabular
          frequency listing. I was also unaware of just how many Winlink RMS
          stations are active: no less than 48 stations on 32 frequencies, mostly
          above 10.140.

          The chart is a living document. If you see any errors or omissions, or
          want to suggest improvements, please email me at mailto:g3nrw%40yahoo.co.uk

          Enjoy the Multi Mode weekend!

          --
          73
          Ian, G3NRW

        • af6it
          Ian, very nicely done! VERY glad to see it in graphical format! Stu AF6IT
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 2, 2011
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            Ian, very nicely done! VERY glad to see it in graphical format!

            Stu AF6IT

            --- In oliviadata@yahoogroups.com, Ian Wade G3NRW <g3nrw@...> wrote:
            >
            > Just in time for the 30m Multi Mode weekend -- 4/5 June 2011.
            >
            > A few weeks ago Don Hobson, KB9UMT, founder of the 30m Digital Group,
            > published the updated "unofficial 30m bandplan" on the 30MDG reflector.
            > I responded, saying that the listing was a little misleading, because
            > some frequencies were dial frequencies, others were emitted frequencies,
            > and it wasn't clear which was which.
            >
            > Don challenged me to do better. At first I tried to improve the listing
            > format, to draw the distinction between dial and emitted frequencies,
            > but quickly realized this was not an easy task! I finally capitulated
            > and decided on a graphical format instead:
            >
            > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wadei/30m_band_utilization.htm
            >
            > I have called it a "Band Utilization" chart. It is exactly that. It is
            > not a "bandplan", nor even an "unofficial bandplan". Rather, it is an
            > attempt to graphically portray the many modes that are actually in use
            > on 30m today. <snip>
            > --
            > 73
            > Ian, G3NRW
            >
          • Waldis Jirgens
            Hi All, Nice chart however dial frequencies are absolutely meaningless since with today s digital programs you can use whatever offset you like for virtually
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 2, 2011
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              Hi All,

              Nice chart however "dial frequencies" are absolutely meaningless since
              with today's digital programs you can use whatever offset you like for
              virtually ALL modes (including Olivia). I find quoting "dial
              frequencies" more confusing than helpful. It leads to second guessing
              why a particular person finds a particular offset for a particular mode
              more desirable than another. There may be very good reasons to use a
              "non standard" offset (like availability of sharp if filters). Even
              worse: It discourages newcomers to digital modes, since "it's all too
              complicated". When I arrange a digital sked on a particular QRG I
              stipulate: "Center frequency of the signal" - that's clear!

              --
              73: Waldis Jirgens - VK1WJ - http://ilgonis.orgfree.com
            • Ian Wade G3NRW
              From: Waldis Jirgens Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 Time: 16:47:56 ... Hi Waldis I responded to someone else in another reflector on the same
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 3, 2011
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                From: Waldis Jirgens <waldis@...>
                Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 Time: 16:47:56

                >Nice chart however "dial frequencies" are absolutely meaningless since
                >with today's digital programs you can use whatever offset you like for
                >virtually ALL modes (including Olivia). I find quoting "dial
                >frequencies" more confusing than helpful. It leads to second guessing
                >why a particular person finds a particular offset for a particular mode
                >more desirable than another. There may be very good reasons to use a
                >"non standard" offset (like availability of sharp if filters). Even
                >worse: It discourages newcomers to digital modes, since "it's all too
                >complicated". When I arrange a digital sked on a particular QRG I
                >stipulate: "Center frequency of the signal" - that's clear!
                >

                Hi Waldis

                I responded to someone else in another reflector on the same topic, as
                follows:

                I agree with you entirely. It's only the emitted frequency that matters
                -- it doesn't matter how it is generated. I even said as much in the
                30MDG reflector when I first questioned the tabular listing:
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                >To me it is not clear from the "Band
                >Plan NOT official" what these frequencies actually represent. Are they
                >radiated frequencies, or are they USB dial frequencies, or are they a
                >mixture of both? (I suspect the CW allocations are radiated frequencies,
                >whereas the digital mode allocations are USB dial frequencies. Or is
                >this too simple a distinction?)
                >It's the transmitted frequency that matters, not the
                >means of generating it.
                >That said, can the band plan be reworked so that it only specifies
                >transmitted frequencies? Then everyone will know exactly where we stand.
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                Then people responded on and off-list saying they *must* have the dial
                frequency. That's all they understand. It shouldn't be like that, but
                that's how it is.

                So I decided to take the middle route, and specified both dial frequency
                and emitted frequency. However, to keep everyone happy, I introduced the
                (as yet unexplained) color coding on the chart. The yellow boxes
                indicate ranges of emitted frequencies, with no dial frequencies, that
                people can slide up and down with fldigi or whatever. The gray boxes,
                with associated dial frequencies, are (more-or-less) "fixed" frequencies
                of operation, and the dial frequency is what you use with the (usually)
                only software package available that generates the signal.

                In the case of AX.25, most people seem to use the KAM tones, so that is
                what I used here in specifying the dial frequency. At least one website
                tells you, in tortuous detail, how to set the dial frequency if you are
                using a different TNC and/or sideband. This shouldn't be necessary, but
                some people need it -- I'm totally comfortable with that, if that is
                what we need to do to make sure people transmit in the right place.

                [That said, I obtained the Olivia500 frequencies from various websites
                as being the usual frequencies of operation, but I am also going to add
                Olivia to the yellow "Contestia, DOMINO-X, THOR etc" box
                (10.142-10.145).]

                --
                73
                Ian, G3NRW

                The 30m Band Utilization Chart:
                http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wadei/30m_band_utilization.htm
              • Ken Meinken
                ... Then you can ignore it, can t you? ... Perhaps you overanalyze things? ... If you have a particular quirk like filters, then you need to work out your
                Message 7 of 9 , Jun 3, 2011
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                  On Jun 3, 2011, at 2:47 AM, Waldis Jirgens wrote:

                  > Hi All,
                  >
                  > Nice chart however "dial frequencies" are absolutely meaningless since
                  > with today's digital programs you can use whatever offset you like for
                  > virtually ALL modes (including Olivia). I find quoting "dial
                  > frequencies" more confusing than helpful.


                  Then you can ignore it, can't you?



                  > It leads to second guessing
                  > why a particular person finds a particular offset for a particular mode
                  > more desirable than another.


                  Perhaps you overanalyze things?


                  > There may be very good reasons to use a
                  > "non standard" offset (like availability of sharp if filters).

                  If you have a particular quirk like filters, then you need to work out your solution.


                  > Even
                  > worse: It discourages newcomers to digital modes, since "it's all too
                  > complicated".

                  I disagree.




                  > When I arrange a digital sked on a particular QRG I
                  > stipulate: "Center frequency of the signal" - that's clear!


                  As clear as mud. I don't think you are simplifying anything for a newcomer. Is that USB? LSB? Have you ever had a SSB sked that spec'd "Center frequency of the signal"?

                  What is the "center frequency" for PSK? 14070.15 USB seems to be a lot more clear to a newcomer than something more convoluted.

                  Ken WA8JXM
                • Waldis Jirgens
                  Hi Ken, What s your difficulty with Center Frequency ? It s clear for AM, FM and CW. Why is it NOT clear for Olivia or PSK31 or PSK125? You basically use an
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jun 3, 2011
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                    Hi Ken,

                    What's your difficulty with "Center Frequency"? It's clear for AM, FM
                    and CW. Why is it NOT clear for Olivia or PSK31 or PSK125?

                    You basically use an spectrum of audio frequencies of a certain
                    bandwidth to modulate a SSB transceiver. Assume the transceiver is tuned
                    to frequency ftx. Assume the middle frequency of the spectrum is fma.
                    Then for USB your center frequency is ftx+fma and for LSB ftx-fma.
                    This is the stuff people learn to pass their licence exam for more than
                    50 years now...

                    --
                    73: Waldis Jirgens - VK1WJ - http://ilgonis.orgfree.com



                    Ken Meinken wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On Jun 3, 2011, at 2:47 AM, Waldis Jirgens wrote:
                    >
                    > > Hi All,
                    > >
                    > > Nice chart however "dial frequencies" are absolutely meaningless since
                    > > with today's digital programs you can use whatever offset you like for
                    > > virtually ALL modes (including Olivia). I find quoting "dial
                    > > frequencies" more confusing than helpful.
                    >
                    > Then you can ignore it, can't you?
                    >
                    > > It leads to second guessing
                    > > why a particular person finds a particular offset for a particular mode
                    > > more desirable than another.
                    >
                    > Perhaps you overanalyze things?
                    >
                    > > There may be very good reasons to use a
                    > > "non standard" offset (like availability of sharp if filters).
                    >
                    > If you have a particular quirk like filters, then you need to work out
                    > your solution.
                    >
                    > > Even
                    > > worse: It discourages newcomers to digital modes, since "it's all too
                    > > complicated".
                    >
                    > I disagree.
                    >
                    > > When I arrange a digital sked on a particular QRG I
                    > > stipulate: "Center frequency of the signal" - that's clear!
                    >
                    > As clear as mud. I don't think you are simplifying anything for a
                    > newcomer. Is that USB? LSB? Have you ever had a SSB sked that spec'd
                    > "Center frequency of the signal"?
                    >
                    > What is the "center frequency" for PSK? 14070.15 USB seems to be a lot
                    > more clear to a newcomer than something more convoluted.
                    >
                    > Ken WA8JXM
                    >
                  • jsodus
                    I was taught that, when I use the word assume , I should expect that the situation would be ripe for making an ass out of you and me. Hi Hi. 73 Jerry KM3K ...
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jun 3, 2011
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                      I was taught that, when I use the word "assume", I should expect that the
                      situation would be ripe for making an ass out of you and me. Hi Hi.
                      73 Jerry KM3K

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: oliviadata@yahoogroups.com [mailto:oliviadata@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Behalf Of Waldis Jirgens
                      Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 8:26 AM
                      To: oliviadata@yahoogroups.com
                      Cc: Ken Meinken
                      Subject: Re: [olivia] The 30m Band Utilization Chart -- 2 June 2011

                      Hi Ken,

                      What's your difficulty with "Center Frequency"? It's clear for AM, FM
                      and CW. Why is it NOT clear for Olivia or PSK31 or PSK125?

                      You basically use an spectrum of audio frequencies of a certain
                      bandwidth to modulate a SSB transceiver. Assume the transceiver is tuned
                      to frequency ftx. Assume the middle frequency of the spectrum is fma.
                      Then for USB your center frequency is ftx+fma and for LSB ftx-fma.
                      This is the stuff people learn to pass their licence exam for more than
                      50 years now...

                      --
                      73: Waldis Jirgens - VK1WJ - http://ilgonis.orgfree.com
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