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DX window for Olivia?

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  • Jaak Hohensee
    Hello all Last month I experimenting with format 500/32. Format is impressive in snr. My suggestion - to use 2 channels as DX-windows: 20m: 14077.65 kHz +750
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 1, 2009
      Hello all

      Last month I experimenting with format 500/32. Format is impressive in snr.

      My suggestion - to use 2 channels as DX-windows:

      20m: 14077.65 kHz +750 Hz
      30m: 10142.5 kHz +750 Hz

      Some senteces from Voluntary Opeating Code of Practice for 6m Operators:

      The DX Window is widely accepted concept and should, in principle , be used for Inter-Continental DX QSOs only, DX window should only be used for QSOs between stations in different continents or where the station is outside the range of single-hop roughly more than 2400km or 1500 miles.
      Listen before you call and always ask if the frequency is being used before you transmit (should be done on any frequency anyway). Just because YOU can't hear anything, it does not mean that the frequency is not occupied or some rare DX is using it.
      Keep QSO simple and to the point as there are other stations who are also waiting in line for a QSO with the DX station.

      http://www.uksmg.org/page.php?16


      -- 
      73 de Jaak
      es1hj/qrp
      
    • Claudio
      I´M calling now 14.077,6 usb 500-32 CLAUDIO-lu2vc
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 1, 2009
        I´M calling now 14.077,6 usb 500-32

        CLAUDIO-lu2vc
      • Gunner
        Jack, Won t the 500/16 mode with a dial freq of 14077.65 and an ACF of 750Hz put the upper edge of your carrier around 14078.65? If so, won t that interfere
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 1, 2009
          Jack,

          Won't the 500/16 mode with a dial freq of 14077.65 and an ACF of 750Hz
          put the upper edge of your carrier around 14078.65? If so, won't that
          interfere with many of the WSJT folks in that area? I know, no one
          "owns" a frequency, and for the most part, its first come first served,
          and I must agree that 500/16 does quite well in a weak signal
          environment, but have you also tried 1000/32? It's S/N abilities are
          even better. Oh, and 2000/64, although at a very slow WPM rate, is
          amazing in its weak signal S/N decoding.

          So why 14077? A least as far as 20M is concerned, the area from 14105.5
          to 14108.5 (in 1 MHz "channels" 105.5, 106.5, etc - one of the few bands
          with sufficient space for the higher bandwidth modes), the sub-band
          where much DX can be found, is virtually unused by other modes (except
          the occasional robot Pactor, or during contest periods).

          If I set my dial to 14106.5, ACF 1000Hz, 1000/32 mode and listen, here
          on the East Coast just about every morning and evening DX can be found
          in this sub-band. Several times, long after 20M had "closed", I have
          been able to work EU with 10W, 100% print, using 2000/64 mode (14107.5
          ACF 1500Hz) (The original QSO's were started in 1000/32 mode, the
          decision to switch was made as the band faded)

          Regardless of the mode chosen, abiding by the gentleman's agreement to
          use specific dial and ACF settings for different modes certainly helps
          in making initial weak signal contacts:

          14072.64-14076.65 on the .65's
          14105.5 - 14108.5 on the .50's
          250/8: ACF 500Hz
          500/16: ACF 750Hz
          1000/32: ACF 1000Hz
          2000/64: ACF 1500Hz

          So I guess my question would be, why not promote this virtually unused
          area between 14105.5 and 14108.5 for all modes of Olivia, instead of
          establishing a DX window (which we all know will spread to either side
          of the center, should propagation improve) in a sub band already crowded
          by MFSK, Feldhell, WSJT, et al? How about 14105.5?

          Regards,
          Glenn W4ULB
          Olivia Modes Club #028
          =================================================

          Jaak Hohensee wrote:
          >
          >
          > Hello all
          >
          > Last month I experimenting with format 500/32. Format is impressive in
          > snr.
          >
          > My suggestion - to use 2 channels as DX-windows:
          >
          > 20m: 14077.65 kHz +750 Hz
          > 30m: 10142.5 kHz +750 Hz
          >
          > Some senteces from Voluntary Opeating Code of Practice for 6m Operators:
          >
          > The DX Window is widely accepted concept and should, /in principle /,
          > be used for Inter-Continental DX QSOs only, DX window should only be
          > used for QSOs between stations in different continents or where the
          > station is outside the range of single-hop roughly more than 2400km or
          > 1500 miles.
          > Listen before you call and always ask if the frequency is being used
          > before you transmit (should be done on any frequency anyway). Just
          > because YOU can't hear anything, it does not mean that the frequency
          > is not occupied or some rare DX is using it.
          > Keep QSO simple and to the point as there are other stations who are
          > also waiting in line for a QSO with the DX station.
          >
          > http://www.uksmg.org/page.php?16
          >
          >
          > --
          > 73 de Jaak
          > es1hj/qrp
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • WD8ARZ
          Please keep in mind the ALE activity world wide on 14.109 USB, most in unattended mode .... http://hflink.com/channels/ Regards and 73 from Bill - WD8ARZ
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 1, 2009
            Please keep in mind the ALE activity world wide on 14.109 USB, most in
            unattended mode ....

            http://hflink.com/channels/

            Regards and 73 from Bill - WD8ARZ
            http://hflink.net/qso/

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Gunner" <gunner@...>
            To: <oliviadata@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 4:18 PM
            Subject: Re: [olivia] DX window for Olivia?


            > Jack,
            snip snip
            >
            > So I guess my question would be, why not promote this virtually unused
            > area between 14105.5 and 14108.5 for all modes of Olivia, instead of
            > establishing a DX window (which we all know will spread to either side
            > of the center, should propagation improve) in a sub band already crowded
            > by MFSK, Feldhell, WSJT, et al? How about 14105.5?
            >
            > Regards,
            > Glenn W4ULB
            > Olivia Modes Club #028
          • expeditionradio
            Hi Glenn, The standard Olivia centre frequencies, 14075.4 14076.4 14078.4 work very well for Olivia CQ and QSOs. The 500Hz 16 tone flavor is quite good. The
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 1, 2009
              Hi Glenn,

              The standard Olivia centre frequencies,
              14075.4
              14076.4
              14078.4
              work very well for Olivia CQ and QSOs.

              The 500Hz 16 tone flavor is quite good.

              The area of 14101-14112kHz is crowded
              with automatic stations worldwide, and not
              suitable for manual keyboarding, because the
              Olivia transmissions are too long and create
              harmful interference to the stations who are
              using fast ARQ modes there.

              The IARU Region Bandplans define 14089-14112 for
              unattended stations... see the documentation here:
              http://hflink.com/bandplans/
              http://hflink.com/bandplans/region1_bandplan.pdf
              http://www.hflink.com/bandplans/Region_2_MF__HF_Bandplan_Annex__1_2008.pdf
              http://hflink.com/bandplans/region3_bandplan.doc

              Keep in mind that 14077.4kHz Centre frequency is
              in wide use for JT65, WSPR, and other extreme weak signal modes.

              So, for normal Olivia keyboarding, it makes sense
              to stick with the 500-16 flavor as a starting point and
              use it on the standard 20m Olivia calling frequencies:

              Centre Frequency Olivia 500/16
              14075.4
              14076.4
              14078.4

              VFO Dial Frequency Olivia 500/16
              14074.65 USB 750Hz Audio Centre
              14075.65 USB 750Hz Audio Centre
              14077.65 USB 750Hz Audio Centre

              Wider flavors of Olivia such as 1kHz-2kHz are rarely
              needed, but when they are, it is easy to QSY if there
              isn't enough space for it in that band segment
              or if (like in Europe) the station is not allowed
              to use a wider mode there.

              73 Bonnie VR2/KQ6XA


              > Glenn W4ULB wrote:
              > So why 14077? A least as far as 20M is concerned,
              > the area from 14105.5 to 14108.5
              > (in 1 MHz "channels" 105.5, 106.5, etc - one
              > of the few bands with sufficient space for the
              > higher bandwidth modes), the sub-band
              > where much DX can be found, is virtually
              > unused by other modes (except
              > the occasional robot Pactor, or during contest periods).
            • Gunner
              Bonnie, Many thinks for the detailed info and links. When it comes to Olivia, I learned most of my self-imposed Olivia operating methods a long time ago from
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 1, 2009
                Bonnie,

                Many thinks for the detailed info and links. When it comes to Olivia, I
                learned most of my self-imposed Olivia operating methods a long time ago
                from the guidelines on the HFLINK website, like standardized Audio
                Center Frequency settings and voluntary channelization.

                I certainly have no problem with the 500/16 mode, the WPM rate is good,
                the S/N capability is excellent, and more stations can fit in a given
                window. But for weak signal conditions, there is no question that
                1000/32 has even better S/N capabilities. Problem with that pair (and
                even more so, 2000/64) is there are few bands that can support such wide
                modes.

                Understanding what the IARU bandplan contains, there is still an awful
                lot of activity, mostly in the 1000/32 mode, between 14105.5 and
                14107.5. And when an RTTY or CW contest is in effect, its clear to see
                that sub-band division plans go out the window. The neighborhood is
                getting crowded!

                R/
                Glenn W4ULB


                expeditionradio wrote:
                >
                > Hi Glenn,
                >
                > The standard Olivia centre frequencies,
                > 14075.4
                > 14076.4
                > 14078.4
                > work very well for Olivia CQ and QSOs.
                >
                > The 500Hz 16 tone flavor is quite good.
                >
                > The area of 14101-14112kHz is crowded
                > with automatic stations worldwide, and not
                > suitable for manual keyboarding, because the
                > Olivia transmissions are too long and create
                > harmful interference to the stations who are
                > using fast ARQ modes there.
                >
                > The IARU Region Bandplans define 14089-14112 for
                > unattended stations... see the documentation here:
                > http://hflink.com/bandplans/
                > http://hflink.com/bandplans/region1_bandplan.pdf
                > http://www.hflink.com/bandplans/Region_2_MF__HF_Bandplan_Annex__1_2008.pdf
                > http://hflink.com/bandplans/region3_bandplan.doc
                >
                > Keep in mind that 14077.4kHz Centre frequency is
                > in wide use for JT65, WSPR, and other extreme weak signal modes.
                >
                > So, for normal Olivia keyboarding, it makes sense
                > to stick with the 500-16 flavor as a starting point and
                > use it on the standard 20m Olivia calling frequencies:
                >
                > Centre Frequency Olivia 500/16
                > 14075.4
                > 14076.4
                > 14078.4
                >
                > VFO Dial Frequency Olivia 500/16
                > 14074.65 USB 750Hz Audio Centre
                > 14075.65 USB 750Hz Audio Centre
                > 14077.65 USB 750Hz Audio Centre
                >
                > Wider flavors of Olivia such as 1kHz-2kHz are rarely
                > needed, but when they are, it is easy to QSY if there
                > isn't enough space for it in that band segment
                > or if (like in Europe) the station is not allowed
                > to use a wider mode there.
                >
                > 73 Bonnie VR2/KQ6XA
                >
                >
                >
                >> Glenn W4ULB wrote:
                >> So why 14077? A least as far as 20M is concerned,
                >> the area from 14105.5 to 14108.5
                >> (in 1 MHz "channels" 105.5, 106.5, etc - one
                >> of the few bands with sufficient space for the
                >> higher bandwidth modes), the sub-band
                >> where much DX can be found, is virtually
                >> unused by other modes (except
                >> the occasional robot Pactor, or during contest periods).
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > --
                > CQ Frequency Olivia 500/16 = 14076.4kHz (center)
                > OliviaData Group web site http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oliviadata
                > Olivia Frequencies and Information web site http://hflink.com/olivia/
                > To change message delivery: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oliviadata/join
                > To stop email, send an email to: oliviadata-nomail@yahoogroups.com
                > --
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > .
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Bill Browne
                Hi Bill, Sounds like a turf war; it is good that you are out there watching the other organizations. 73, Bill /kb3jaj _____ From: oliviadata@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 1, 2009

                  Hi Bill,

                   

                  Sounds like a turf war; it is good that you are out there watching the other organizations.

                   

                  73, Bill /kb3jaj


                  From: oliviadata@yahoogroups.com [mailto:oliviadata@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of WD8ARZ
                  Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 4:41 PM
                  To: oliviadata@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [olivia] DX window for Olivia?

                   

                   

                  Please keep in mind the ALE activity world wide on 14.109 USB, most in
                  unattended mode ....

                  http://hflink. com/channels/

                  Regards and 73 from Bill - WD8ARZ
                  http://hflink. net/qso/

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Gunner" <gunner@brenlen. com>
                  To: <oliviadata@yahoogro ups.com>
                  Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 4:18 PM
                  Subject: Re: [olivia] DX window for Olivia?

                  > Jack,
                  snip snip
                  >
                  > So I guess my question would be, why not promote this virtually unused
                  > area between 14105.5 and 14108.5 for all modes of Olivia, instead of
                  > establishing a DX window (which we all know will spread to either side
                  > of the center, should propagation improve) in a sub band already crowded
                  > by MFSK, Feldhell, WSJT, et al? How about 14105.5?
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  > Glenn W4ULB
                  > Olivia Modes Club #028

                  No virus found in this incoming message.
                  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                  Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.87/2535 - Release Date: 12/01/09 02:59:00

                • Jaak Hohensee
                  Hi all Seems that nobody against the Olivia dx-window. Problematic is 20m freq and format. Format 500/32 is -3dB better than 500/16. I had nice test QSO with
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 2, 2009
                    Hi all

                    Seems that nobody against the Olivia dx-window.
                    Problematic is 20m freq and format.

                    Format 500/32 is -3dB better than 500/16. I had nice test QSO with UT5UBB pwr=5w...500mW and there was absolutely nothing in wtrfl excl a strong bpsk125 signal with sidebars on leftside top of Olivia 500/32. Only few charcacters lost.
                    Yesterday FLdigi decoded the 500/16 VK6JJJ, but probably missing -3dB and VK6JJJ don´t anwer. Or maybe VK6JJJ used squelsh and don´t was ready for this grayline dx-qso.
                    Olivia value is snr so why not to use this value?


                    Channel
                    20m: maybe 14076.4 center freq better than 14078.4? After reading msg-es my suggestion to use for dx-window 14075.65 dial +750 ACF.
                    30m: 10142.5 dial +750Hz AF seems accepted. 30m is nice band and contest free.

                    DX-window and use these channels for shorter QSO with more watching is nothing new for ham practice. Some times I seen long Olivia QSOs on 20m  1k channels between 2 NA station without any possibility to break. Lets these channels for ragchew incl intercontinental. I so used these channels for intercontinental ragchew some times and after the end started pile-up.

                    If the dx-window concept with 500/32  accepted I  post new Olivia "bandplan" for discussion. 

                    73 de Jaak
                    es1hj/qrp

                    expeditionradio wrote:
                     



                    Hi Glenn,

                    The standard Olivia centre frequencies,
                    14075.4
                    14076.4
                    14078.4
                    work very well for Olivia CQ and QSOs.

                    The 500Hz 16 tone flavor is quite good.

                    The area of 14101-14112kHz is crowded
                    with automatic stations worldwide, and not
                    suitable for manual keyboarding, because the
                    Olivia transmissions are too long and create
                    harmful interference to the stations who are
                    using fast ARQ modes there.

                    The IARU Region Bandplans define 14089-14112 for
                    unattended stations... see the documentation here:
                    http://hflink. com/bandplans/
                    http://hflink. com/bandplans/ region1_bandplan .pdf
                    http://www.hflink. com/bandplans/ Region_2_ MF__HF_Bandplan_ Annex__1_ 2008.pdf
                    http://hflink. com/bandplans/ region3_bandplan .doc

                    Keep in mind that 14077.4kHz Centre frequency is
                    in wide use for JT65, WSPR, and other extreme weak signal modes.

                    So, for normal Olivia keyboarding, it makes sense
                    to stick with the 500-16 flavor as a starting point and
                    use it on the standard 20m Olivia calling frequencies:

                    Centre Frequency Olivia 500/16
                    14075.4
                    14076.4
                    14078.4

                    VFO Dial Frequency Olivia 500/16
                    14074.65 USB 750Hz Audio Centre
                    14075.65 USB 750Hz Audio Centre
                    14077.65 USB 750Hz Audio Centre

                    Wider flavors of Olivia such as 1kHz-2kHz are rarely
                    needed, but when they are, it is easy to QSY if there
                    isn't enough space for it in that band segment
                    or if (like in Europe) the station is not allowed
                    to use a wider mode there.

                    73 Bonnie VR2/KQ6XA


                    > Glenn W4ULB wrote:
                    > So why 14077? A least as far as 20M is concerned,
                    > the area from 14105.5 to 14108.5
                    > (in 1 MHz "channels" 105.5, 106.5, etc - one
                    > of the few bands with sufficient space for the
                    > higher bandwidth modes), the sub-band
                    > where much DX can be found, is virtually
                    > unused by other modes (except
                    > the occasional robot Pactor, or during contest periods).


                    -- 
                    Kirjutas ja tervitab
                    Jaak Hohensee
                    
                  • Juergen
                    Hi Jaak, Olivia 16/500 is much more common than 32/500 as fas as I see it. Therefore I still prefer 16/500. Regarding the DX window I personally prefer the
                    Message 9 of 9 , Dec 5, 2009
                      Hi Jaak,

                      Olivia 16/500 is much more common than 32/500 as fas as I see it. Therefore I still prefer 16/500.

                      Regarding the DX window I personally prefer the channels as given in the hflink - bandplan as they are more or less accepted on 20 m despite the JT65 interference which might happen. As already posted I don't use the proposed frequencies on 80 and 40 m because normally you will not have too many contacts there. According to my experience it's better to be just above the PSK-activity (e.g. 3581 or 3582 khz USB + 1500 hz). I had quite some nice dx-qso's on 80 m already using that approach with 10 w only and a longwire abt 10 - 12 m above ground (the last one was with YI9TM on Thursday).

                      73

                      Juergen, DL8LE

                      --- In oliviadata@yahoogroups.com, Jaak Hohensee <jaak.hohensee@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi all
                      >
                      > Seems that nobody against the Olivia dx-window.
                      > Problematic is 20m freq and format.
                      >
                      > Format 500/32 is -3dB better than 500/16. I had nice test QSO with
                      > UT5UBB pwr=5w...500mW and there was absolutely nothing in wtrfl excl a
                      > strong bpsk125 signal with sidebars on leftside top of Olivia 500/32.
                      > Only few charcacters lost.
                      > Yesterday FLdigi decoded the 500/16 VK6JJJ, but probably missing -3dB
                      > and VK6JJJ don´t anwer. Or maybe VK6JJJ used squelsh and don´t was ready
                      > for this grayline dx-qso.
                      > Olivia value is snr so why not to use this value?
                      >
                      >
                      > Channel
                      > 20m: maybe 14076.4 center freq better than 14078.4? After reading msg-es
                      > my suggestion to use for dx-window 14075.65 dial +750 ACF.
                      > 30m: 10142.5 dial +750Hz AF seems accepted. 30m is nice band and contest
                      > free.
                      >
                      > DX-window and use these channels for shorter QSO with more watching is
                      > nothing new for ham practice. Some times I seen long Olivia QSOs on 20m
                      > 1k channels between 2 NA station without any possibility to break. Lets
                      > these channels for ragchew incl intercontinental. I so used these
                      > channels for intercontinental ragchew some times and after the end
                      > started pile-up.
                      >
                      > If the dx-window concept with 500/32 accepted I post new Olivia
                      > "bandplan" for discussion.
                      >
                      > 73 de Jaak
                      > es1hj/qrp
                      >
                      > expeditionradio wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Hi Glenn,
                      > >
                      > > The standard Olivia centre frequencies,
                      > > 14075.4
                      > > 14076.4
                      > > 14078.4
                      > > work very well for Olivia CQ and QSOs.
                      > >
                      > > The 500Hz 16 tone flavor is quite good.
                      > >
                      > > The area of 14101-14112kHz is crowded
                      > > with automatic stations worldwide, and not
                      > > suitable for manual keyboarding, because the
                      > > Olivia transmissions are too long and create
                      > > harmful interference to the stations who are
                      > > using fast ARQ modes there.
                      > >
                      > > The IARU Region Bandplans define 14089-14112 for
                      > > unattended stations... see the documentation here:
                      > > http://hflink.com/bandplans/ <http://hflink.com/bandplans/>
                      > > http://hflink.com/bandplans/region1_bandplan.pdf
                      > > <http://hflink.com/bandplans/region1_bandplan.pdf>
                      > > http://www.hflink.com/bandplans/Region_2_MF__HF_Bandplan_Annex__1_2008.pdf
                      > > <http://www.hflink.com/bandplans/Region_2_MF__HF_Bandplan_Annex__1_2008.pdf>
                      > > http://hflink.com/bandplans/region3_bandplan.doc
                      > > <http://hflink.com/bandplans/region3_bandplan.doc>
                      > >
                      > > Keep in mind that 14077.4kHz Centre frequency is
                      > > in wide use for JT65, WSPR, and other extreme weak signal modes.
                      > >
                      > > So, for normal Olivia keyboarding, it makes sense
                      > > to stick with the 500-16 flavor as a starting point and
                      > > use it on the standard 20m Olivia calling frequencies:
                      > >
                      > > Centre Frequency Olivia 500/16
                      > > 14075.4
                      > > 14076.4
                      > > 14078.4
                      > >
                      > > VFO Dial Frequency Olivia 500/16
                      > > 14074.65 USB 750Hz Audio Centre
                      > > 14075.65 USB 750Hz Audio Centre
                      > > 14077.65 USB 750Hz Audio Centre
                      > >
                      > > Wider flavors of Olivia such as 1kHz-2kHz are rarely
                      > > needed, but when they are, it is easy to QSY if there
                      > > isn't enough space for it in that band segment
                      > > or if (like in Europe) the station is not allowed
                      > > to use a wider mode there.
                      > >
                      > > 73 Bonnie VR2/KQ6XA
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > > Glenn W4ULB wrote:
                      > > > So why 14077? A least as far as 20M is concerned,
                      > > > the area from 14105.5 to 14108.5
                      > > > (in 1 MHz "channels" 105.5, 106.5, etc - one
                      > > > of the few bands with sufficient space for the
                      > > > higher bandwidth modes), the sub-band
                      > > > where much DX can be found, is virtually
                      > > > unused by other modes (except
                      > > > the occasional robot Pactor, or during contest periods).
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > --
                      > Kirjutas ja tervitab
                      > Jaak Hohensee
                      >
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