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Re: [olivia] Re: Rethinking the Olivia

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  • Tommi Holopainen
    Hello Yes we have tested also DominoEX, also with FEC and THOR. They are quite good modes, but they are not so good as Olivia. DEX and Thor are quite bit
    Message 1 of 23 , Mar 8, 2009
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      Hello

      Yes we have tested also DominoEX, also with FEC and THOR. They are quite
      good modes, but they are not so good as Olivia. DEX and Thor are quite
      bit faster and working when condx are quite good. But when aurora,
      multpath, flutter, QRN, QRM comes (often 80m) then these modes failed.
      Olivia is last mode which can get Qso made when condx are vy poor.

      -Tommi OH7JJT-

      jaakhohensee kirjoitti:
      >
      > --- In oliviadata@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:oliviadata%40yahoogroups.com>, Tommi Holopainen <oh7jjt@...>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello all
      > > We use often 80m (3590 kz) Olivia 16/500 and when condx going very poor
      > > then 8/250. There are a few OH stations and sometimes DL fellows too.
      > > Almost every evening our ring is active. When condx are better we use
      > > ARQ modes like PAX, PAX2 and ALE 400 links. We had noticed that Olivia
      > > worked there difficult 80m band when other modes failed.
      >
      > Tommi, did you have experience with DominoEX?
      > Or with the new version of DEX with FEC, the Thor?
      >
      > 73, Jaak
      > es1hj/qrp
      >
      >
    • kf4hou
      250hz 8 tone is super in low band enviroments, I have seen many times 250hz be error free compared to 500hz wide, the signal noise ratio increases to help you
      Message 2 of 23 , Mar 8, 2009
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        250hz 8 tone is super in low band enviroments, I have seen many times 250hz be error free compared to 500hz wide, the signal noise ratio increases to help you to get thru the high noise levels on 160m , even jt65a in one QSO to europe on 160m had some errors took like two tries and bpsk31 did ok and olivia 250hz/8 was 99% error free.

        but using Olivia for a contest mode? That would be a pretty boring contest. It would take a long time just to make one exchange, MFSK16 would be a better choice for a contest just because of the speeds, MFSK16 or 8 or 32 etc is not all that hard to tune in if you are familiar with it. and the weaker the signal the more precise you have to tune in on any mode.

        But I also have found that in about 90% of all Olivia QSO's could be done in another mode just as easily,

        I do not like using Olivia for ragchewing, I rather use MT63 it is faster and lower duty cycle and pretty darn robust for what it is and fairly sensitive in the 500hz long interleave. If I am in the mood for ragchewing with error free.



        --- In oliviadata@yahoogroups.com, Chris Gerber <chris.gerber@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello All
        >
        > I am using Olivia right from the start, when Pawel invendet the mode..
        > Pawel is living almost next door to me here and we often discuss digital
        > modes.
        > I was also together with Nino and Murry when MFSK16 started.
        > The same goes with PSK which we first started without soundcards but with
        > a Motorola Evaluation Kit, later also MT63 with the same Kit.
        > Peter G3PLX wrote those programms, after a script from Pawel, the autor
        > of Olivia
        > All those and many other modes work fine and are realy very interesting
        > for hamuse.
        > But beside a good ARQ mode like Amtor, or Pactor 1-3, Olivia is the best
        > and most robust.
        > Regardless, whats written about S/N ratio or else, all the Olivia
        > Settings have their
        > advatage. One needs only about 40 -50% of the channelwidth to get a 100%
        > copy with very
        > low signals. Therefor how wider, how more robust. I can work a S1 Dx
        > Station in a RTTY contest
        > with up to 3 RTTY or any Pactor station inside the Olivia 1000/32
        > channel. I did that many time,
        > again just resently with my qso partner 3D2BA on 20m.
        > There is no NO-ARQ mode, which could beat that, any MFSK16 signal would
        > missprint at the first,
        > qrm sign inside the channel, not so Olivia.
        > The small modes like 500/16 or 250/8 are also very good and suitable for
        > bands not allwoing wider modes.
        > But as said how smaller the channel width, how less robust is the mode.
        > I made the last few years, so many experiments with Olivia and other
        > modes, and realy find, its the most useful
        > mode for DXing, its not to far of from JT65, but still faster.
        > So take in account the facts, that how smaller the bandwidth, how more
        > senstitieve for adjecent, or direct qrm.
        > I know, this may steer up a discussion again, but for me as a believer,
        > and heavy Olivia user, this are the facts.
        >
        > 73 Chris HB9BDM
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Waldis Jirgens
        Hi All, If you want to have fast Olivia try 500 Hz and 4 tones. Back in 2006 I used that one in 2m Aircraft Enhancement tests with VK3GOM in Bendigo. We had
        Message 3 of 23 , Mar 9, 2009
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          Hi All,

          If you want to have fast Olivia try 500 Hz and 4 tones. Back in 2006 I
          used that one in 2m Aircraft Enhancement tests with VK3GOM in Bendigo.
          We had operating windows of less than 1 minute at a time because of our
          geographic situation. That was quick enough to exchange reports and have
          a few words chatting. Details: http://ilgonis.orgfree.com/gipps/AE2.htm
          4/500 would be a good submode for an Olivia contest.

          Speaking of which: Next weekend we have here in VK, ZL and P2 the John
          Moyle Memorial Fieldday running from Sa 0100 to Su 0100 UTC. For the
          first time there is also a digital section, which I'd like to
          participate in. So please come up on 20 and 40m and help us here "down
          under" to get some contacts!

          --
          73: Waldis Jirgens - VK1WJ - http://ilgonis.orgfree.com

          kf4hou wrote:
          >
          >
          > 250hz 8 tone is super in low band enviroments, I have seen many times
          > 250hz be error free compared to 500hz wide, the signal noise ratio
          > increases to help you to get thru the high noise levels on 160m , even
          > jt65a in one QSO to europe on 160m had some errors took like two tries
          > and bpsk31 did ok and olivia 250hz/8 was 99% error free.
          >
          > but using Olivia for a contest mode? That would be a pretty boring
          > contest. It would take a long time just to make one exchange, MFSK16
          > would be a better choice for a contest just because of the speeds,
          > MFSK16 or 8 or 32 etc is not all that hard to tune in if you are
          > familiar with it. and the weaker the signal the more precise you have to
          > tune in on any mode.
          >
          > But I also have found that in about 90% of all Olivia QSO's could be
          > done in another mode just as easily,
          >
          > I do not like using Olivia for ragchewing, I rather use MT63 it is
          > faster and lower duty cycle and pretty darn robust for what it is and
          > fairly sensitive in the 500hz long interleave. If I am in the mood for
          > ragchewing with error free.
        • jaakhohensee
          Yes, same is my small experience with DominoEX and Thor in HF. Seems that DominoEX without FEC (=Thor) is better compromise. Perhaps these DominoEX better for
          Message 4 of 23 , Mar 9, 2009
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            Yes, same is my small experience with DominoEX and Thor in HF.
            Seems that DominoEX without FEC (=Thor) is better compromise.
            Perhaps these DominoEX better for VHF like 6m?
            I plan to test digital chat-capabilty modes in 6m in this summer but dont have yet understanding what is best/better mode/format. Some Olivia 500/8? Some pros have DominoEX.
            Any suggestion?

            Jaak
            es1hj7qrp

            --- In oliviadata@yahoogroups.com, Tommi Holopainen <oh7jjt@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello
            >
            > Yes we have tested also DominoEX, also with FEC and THOR. They are quite
            > good modes, but they are not so good as Olivia. DEX and Thor are quite
            > bit faster and working when condx are quite good. But when aurora,
            > multpath, flutter, QRN, QRM comes (often 80m) then these modes failed.
            > Olivia is last mode which can get Qso made when condx are vy poor.
            >
            > -Tommi OH7JJT-
            >
            > jaakhohensee kirjoitti:
            > >
            > > --- In oliviadata@yahoogroups.com
            > > <mailto:oliviadata%40yahoogroups.com>, Tommi Holopainen <oh7jjt@>
            > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hello all
            > > > We use often 80m (3590 kz) Olivia 16/500 and when condx going very poor
            > > > then 8/250. There are a few OH stations and sometimes DL fellows too.
            > > > Almost every evening our ring is active. When condx are better we use
            > > > ARQ modes like PAX, PAX2 and ALE 400 links. We had noticed that Olivia
            > > > worked there difficult 80m band when other modes failed.
            > >
            > > Tommi, did you have experience with DominoEX?
            > > Or with the new version of DEX with FEC, the Thor?
            > >
            > > 73, Jaak
            > > es1hj/qrp
            > >
            > >
            >
          • dl8le
            Hello Waldis, where on 40 and 20? I will look for you around 7036 + 1.5 and 14073 +1.5 in 500/16 or give me any other proposal for a frequency I could use. 73
            Message 5 of 23 , Mar 10, 2009
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              Hello Waldis,

              where on 40 and 20? I will look for you around 7036 + 1.5 and 14073 +1.5 in 500/16 or give me any other proposal for a frequency I could use.

              73

              Juergen, DL8LE


              --- In oliviadata@yahoogroups.com, Waldis Jirgens <waldis@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi All,
              >
              > If you want to have fast Olivia try 500 Hz and 4 tones. Back in 2006 I
              > used that one in 2m Aircraft Enhancement tests with VK3GOM in Bendigo.
              > We had operating windows of less than 1 minute at a time because of our
              > geographic situation. That was quick enough to exchange reports and have
              > a few words chatting. Details: http://ilgonis.orgfree.com/gipps/AE2.htm
              > 4/500 would be a good submode for an Olivia contest.
              >
              > Speaking of which: Next weekend we have here in VK, ZL and P2 the John
              > Moyle Memorial Fieldday running from Sa 0100 to Su 0100 UTC. For the
              > first time there is also a digital section, which I'd like to
              > participate in. So please come up on 20 and 40m and help us here "down
              > under" to get some contacts!
              >
              > --
              > 73: Waldis Jirgens - VK1WJ - http://ilgonis.orgfree.com
              >
              > kf4hou wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > 250hz 8 tone is super in low band enviroments, I have seen many times
              > > 250hz be error free compared to 500hz wide, the signal noise ratio
              > > increases to help you to get thru the high noise levels on 160m , even
              > > jt65a in one QSO to europe on 160m had some errors took like two tries
              > > and bpsk31 did ok and olivia 250hz/8 was 99% error free.
              > >
              > > but using Olivia for a contest mode? That would be a pretty boring
              > > contest. It would take a long time just to make one exchange, MFSK16
              > > would be a better choice for a contest just because of the speeds,
              > > MFSK16 or 8 or 32 etc is not all that hard to tune in if you are
              > > familiar with it. and the weaker the signal the more precise you have to
              > > tune in on any mode.
              > >
              > > But I also have found that in about 90% of all Olivia QSO's could be
              > > done in another mode just as easily,
              > >
              > > I do not like using Olivia for ragchewing, I rather use MT63 it is
              > > faster and lower duty cycle and pretty darn robust for what it is and
              > > fairly sensitive in the 500hz long interleave. If I am in the mood for
              > > ragchewing with error free.
              >
            • Waldis Jirgens
              Hallo Juergen Yes these frequencies are fine! Grafex suggests openings on 20m between 0600 and 0900 UTC, and on 40m between 1600 and 2000 UTC. The former are
              Message 6 of 23 , Mar 10, 2009
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                Hallo Juergen

                Yes these frequencies are fine! Grafex suggests openings on 20m between
                0600 and 0900 UTC, and on 40m between 1600 and 2000 UTC. The former are
                1700-200 local time, that's fine with me, the latter are 0300 to 0700
                local, which might be a bit early, but I'll make an effort!

                --
                73 es AWDS: Waldis Jirgens - VK1WJ - http://ilgonis.orgfree.com


                dl8le wrote:
                >
                >
                > Hello Waldis,
                >
                > where on 40 and 20? I will look for you around 7036 + 1.5 and 14073 +1.5
                > in 500/16 or give me any other proposal for a frequency I could use.
                >
                > 73
                >
                > Juergen, DL8LE
              • Claudio
                Hi: I usually try in 14105, 1000-32 near 1900 utc beam europe or 2000 utc but nothing happen. Perhaps a contest is a good idea to promote this mode.
                Message 7 of 23 , Mar 13, 2009
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                  Hi: I usually try in 14105, 1000-32 near 1900 utc beam europe or 2000 utc but nothing happen. Perhaps a contest is a good idea to promote this mode.
                   
                  Claudio-LU2VCD

                   
                  2009/3/11, Waldis Jirgens <waldis@...>:

                  Hallo Juergen

                  Yes these frequencies are fine! Grafex suggests openings on 20m between
                  0600 and 0900 UTC, and on 40m between 1600 and 2000 UTC. The former are
                  1700-200 local time, that's fine with me, the latter are 0300 to 0700
                  local, which might be a bit early, but I'll make an effort!

                  --
                  73 es AWDS: Waldis Jirgens - VK1WJ - http://ilgonis.orgfree.com

                  dl8le wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Hello Waldis,
                  >
                  > where on 40 and 20? I will look for you around 7036 + 1.5 and 14073 +1.5
                  > in 500/16 or give me any other proposal for a frequency I could use.
                  >
                  > 73
                  >
                  > Juergen, DL8LE


                • Chris Gerber
                  Hi Claudio I am always around and have worked mario many times as well.. The correct channel frequency must be 14106.500Khz thats the calling channel. 73 Chris
                  Message 8 of 23 , Mar 13, 2009
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                    Hi Claudio

                    I am always around and have worked mario many times as well..
                    The correct channel frequency must be 14106.500Khz thats the calling channel.

                    73 Chris HB9BDM

                    Claudio schrieb:
                    Hi: I usually try in 14105, 1000-32 near 1900 utc beam europe or 2000 utc but nothing happen. Perhaps a contest is a good idea to promote this mode.
                     
                    Claudio-LU2VCD

                     
                    2009/3/11, Waldis Jirgens <waldis@.... au>:

                    Hallo Juergen

                    Yes these frequencies are fine! Grafex suggests openings on 20m between
                    0600 and 0900 UTC, and on 40m between 1600 and 2000 UTC. The former are
                    1700-200 local time, that's fine with me, the latter are 0300 to 0700
                    local, which might be a bit early, but I'll make an effort!

                    --
                    73 es AWDS: Waldis Jirgens - VK1WJ - http://ilgonis. orgfree.com

                    dl8le wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Hello Waldis,
                    >
                    > where on 40 and 20? I will look for you around 7036 + 1.5 and 14073 +1.5
                    > in 500/16 or give me any other proposal for a frequency I could use.
                    >
                    > 73
                    >
                    > Juergen, DL8LE


                  • dl8le
                    Due to the strong activity in the EA PSK-Contest this weekend the suggested frequencies didn t work very well so far ... Therefore I will make another attempt
                    Message 9 of 23 , Mar 14, 2009
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                      Due to the strong activity in the EA PSK-Contest this weekend the suggested frequencies didn't work very well so far ... Therefore I will make another attempt on 20 m between on Sunday morning between 7 and 8 UTC on 14105 +1.5 khz in 1000/32. Hope this will work at the end (and sorry for my prior proposal but this was without knowing anything about the planned contest).

                      73

                      Juergen, DL8LE

                      --- In oliviadata@yahoogroups.com, Waldis Jirgens <waldis@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hallo Juergen
                      >
                      > Yes these frequencies are fine! Grafex suggests openings on 20m between
                      > 0600 and 0900 UTC, and on 40m between 1600 and 2000 UTC. The former are
                      > 1700-200 local time, that's fine with me, the latter are 0300 to 0700
                      > local, which might be a bit early, but I'll make an effort!
                      >
                      > --
                      > 73 es AWDS: Waldis Jirgens - VK1WJ - http://ilgonis.orgfree.com
                      >
                      >
                      > dl8le wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Hello Waldis,
                      > >
                      > > where on 40 and 20? I will look for you around 7036 + 1.5 and 14073 +1.5
                      > > in 500/16 or give me any other proposal for a frequency I could use.
                      > >
                      > > 73
                      > >
                      > > Juergen, DL8LE
                      >
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