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Re: [digitalradio] How to choose Olivia tone/bandwidth parameters -- an idea

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  • Jose A. Amador
    Interesting, but I believe it has already been done in MultiPSK with the RS ID codes sent in MFSK in the preamble. They seem to work well. I have used Video
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 1, 2008
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      Interesting, but I believe it has already been done in MultiPSK with the
      RS ID codes sent in MFSK in the preamble. They seem to work well.

      I have used Video ID's and maybe your proposal is a bit more compact and
      readable that the usual video ID's. It should be tested out. I believe
      tha making Olivia more popular is a good thing.

      Just some more food for thought.

      73,

      Jose, CO2JA

      I am crossposting this to the Olivia and MultiPSK groups from the
      digitalradio group. Seems an interesting point in favor of Olivia.

      ---

      Ian Wade wrote:

      > Here is an idea that Olivia developers might care to consider.
      >
      > People often remark that it's difficult to set up the right parameters
      > when receiving Olivia signals. There are potentially eight possible tone
      > settings to choose from (2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128 and 256 tones) and
      > five possible bandwidths (125, 250, 500, 1000 and 2000 Hz) -- a total of
      > 40 possible combinations -- making it almost impossible to choose the
      > right combination before the signal disappears.
      >
      > Out of these 40 possible tone/bandwidth combinations, there are probably
      > up to 8 that are in popular use: 4/250, 4/500, 8/250, 8/500, 8/1000,
      > 16/500, 16/1000 and 32/1000. Even so, narrowing the choice down to these
      > 8 still takes too long. What is needed is a simple way of indicating
      > which combination is in use at the start of transmission.
      >
      > This is where we can make use of the capability to display text
      > characters in the waterfall. If we allocate a code for each
      > tone/bandwidth combination, and display that code as text in the
      > waterfall immediately before transmitting the Olivia signal, it will be
      > possible to set up the correct parameters very quickly, in time to
      > decode the signal.
      >
      > A possible coding scheme could be as in the table below. The most
      > popular combinations are indicated with asterisks.
      >
      > Each code is preceded by the letters "OL-" (for Olivia), to identify the
      > mode. So, for an 8/500 signal, you would see the characters "OL-12" in
      > the waterfall before the Olivia signal starts.
      >
      > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      > OL-Code Tones / Bandwidth
      >
      > OL-00 2 125
      > OL-01 2 250
      > OL-02 2 500
      > OL-03 2 1000
      > OL-04 2 2000
      > OL-05 4 125
      > OL-06 4 250 ***
      > OL-07 4 500 ***
      > OL-08 4 1000
      > OL-09 4 2000
      > OL-10 8 125
      > OL-11 8 250 ***
      > OL-12 8 500 ***
      > OL-13 8 1000 ***
      > OL-14 8 2000
      > OL-15 16 125
      > OL-16 16 250
      > OL-17 16 500 ***
      > OL-18 16 1000 ***
      > OL-19 16 2000
      > OL-20 32 125
      > OL-21 32 250
      > OL-22 32 500
      > OL-23 32 1000 ***
      > OL-24 32 2000
      > OL-25 64 125
      > OL-26 64 250
      > OL-27 64 500
      > OL-28 64 1000
      > OL-29 64 2000
      > OL-30 128 125
      > OL-31 128 250
      > OL-32 128 500
      > OL-33 128 1000
      > OL-34 128 2000
      > OL-35 256 125
      > OL-36 256 250
      > OL-37 256 500
      > OL-38 256 1000
      > OL-39 256 2000
      > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      >
      > This idea could even be extended to other modes, substituting a
      > different code in place of "OL".
      >
      > I believe that Olivia is greatly under-utilized because of the
      > difficulty in choosing the correct tone/bandwidth parameters when
      > receiving a signal. Being able to select the parameters quickly by
      > reading the code in the waterfall should go a long way to promoting more
      > Olivia activity.
      >
      > Comments anyone?
    • Jose A. Amador
      Clever...simple and evident. There is a common russian phrase that applies kratka sistra talanta , conciseness is the sister of talent. 73, Jose, CO2JA ... --
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 1, 2008
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        Clever...simple and evident.

        There is a common russian phrase that applies "kratka sistra talanta",
        conciseness is the sister of talent.

        73,

        Jose, CO2JA

        ---

        Simon Brown wrote:

        > You see the bandwidth already - so why not just OL + number of tones?
        >
        > I don't think users will like a lookup table.
        >
        > Simon Brown, HB9DRV
        >
        > --------------------------------------------------
        > From: "Ian Wade" <g3nrw@...>
        >
        >> Here is an idea that Olivia developers might care to consider.
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at
        > http://www.obriensweb.com/sked
        >
        > Check our other Yahoo Groups....
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dxlist/
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        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/themixwgroup
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >


        --
        MSc. Ing. Jose Angel Amador Fundora
        Profesor Auxiliar
        Departamento de Telecomunicaciones
        Facultad de Ingenieria Electrica, CUJAE
        Calle 114 #11901 e/ 119 y 127
        Marianao 19390, Ciudad de la Habana, Cuba
        Tel: (53 7) 266-3445
        Email: amador at electrica.cujae.edu.cu
      • Waldis Jirgens
        And why not use a CW preamble (like OL8) instead of C/MT Hell Video-id which in most cases is far less readable than Olivia and a lot slower than CW @ 25 WPM.
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 1, 2008
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          And why not use a CW preamble (like OL8) instead of C/MT Hell Video-id
          which in most cases is far less readable than Olivia and a lot slower
          than CW @ 25 WPM.

          --
          73: Waldis Jirgens - VK1WJ - http://mywebpage.netscape.com/ilgonis

          Jose A. Amador wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > Clever...simple and evident.
          >
          > There is a common russian phrase that applies "kratka sistra talanta",
          > conciseness is the sister of talent.
          >
          > 73,
          >
          > Jose, CO2JA
          >
          > ---
          >
          > Simon Brown wrote:
          >
          > > You see the bandwidth already - so why not just OL + number of tones?
          > >
          > > I don't think users will like a lookup table.
          > >
          > > Simon Brown, HB9DRV
        • Simon Brown
          Because some / many ops don t have any audio from the radio when working digital modes (it s not needed) and also CW is no longer mandatory and also 25 WPM is
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 1, 2008
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            Because some / many ops don't have any audio from the radio when working
            digital modes (it's not needed) and also CW is no longer mandatory and also
            25 WPM is - 25 WPM!

            Simon Brown, HB9DRV

            --------------------------------------------------
            From: "Waldis Jirgens" <waldis@...>

            > And why not use a CW preamble (like OL8) instead of C/MT Hell Video-id...
          • Waldis Jirgens
            Hi Simon, Well that s a bit hard to believe: 1. It s very convenient to listen to your QSO partner s signal, particularly when asked for a critical report,
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 2, 2008
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              Hi Simon,

              Well that's a bit hard to believe:

              1. It's very convenient to listen to your QSO partner's signal,
              particularly when asked for a critical report, also by listening and
              with some experience you can guess what mode a CQ is in (Olivia 8/500
              sounds different to 16/500 for instance). And especially in Olivia you
              sometimes hear a weak signal that does not show up in the waterfall.

              2. Even a non CW man will get the difference between 4 ....- 8 ---.. and
              16 .---- -.... even at a speed of 25WPM. If you don't believe me - try
              it! Nearly all programs have also a CW mode.

              --
              73: Waldis Jirgens - VK1WJ - http://mywebpage.netscape.com/ilgonis



              Simon Brown wrote:
              >
              >
              > Because some / many ops don't have any audio from the radio when working
              > digital modes (it's not needed) and also CW is no longer mandatory and also
              > 25 WPM is - 25 WPM!
              >
              > Simon Brown, HB9DRV
              >
            • Jose A. Amador
              That might be an option too. I can copy that. Jose, CO2JA
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 2, 2008
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                That might be an option too. I can copy that.

                Jose, CO2JA

                ---

                Waldis Jirgens wrote:

                > And why not use a CW preamble (like OL8) instead of C/MT Hell Video-id
                > which in most cases is far less readable than Olivia and a lot slower
                > than CW @ 25 WPM.
              • Jose A. Amador
                Then I am another weird one who listens for the noises that show up in the waterfall. I only shut up the speaker on packet, and not always, either. Sometimes
                Message 7 of 7 , Jun 2, 2008
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                  Then I am another weird one who listens for the noises that show up in
                  the waterfall.

                  I only shut up the speaker on packet, and not always, either. Sometimes
                  it helps to detect a collision condition or the appearance of another
                  alligator on frequency (too much deviation and shameful antena, usually).

                  Jose, CO2JA

                  ---

                  Simon Brown wrote:

                  > Because some / many ops don't have any audio from the radio when working
                  > digital modes (it's not needed) and also CW is no longer mandatory and also
                  > 25 WPM is - 25 WPM!
                  >
                  > Simon Brown, HB9DRV
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