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Re: [olivia] Re: MultiPSK 4.8 doesn't decode all that great on Olivia

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  • Jose A. Amador
    ... Well, one difficulty that has been pointed out is that it is not easy to identify the many possible parameter variants, and a sub-standard setup will make
    Message 1 of 23 , May 13, 2008
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      garylinnrobinson wrote:

      > I didn't start out to prove anything but my results were clear and
      > quantitative. On all 4 of my computers with settings optimized and
      > sound cards aligned properly MultiPSK did not perform as well as DM780
      > or FLDigi on Olivia modes.

      > It is easy and convenient to pass it off as "operator" error or
      > inexperience. Easy to come up with other reasons too - many of which
      > may be valid - but the bottom line - if users have to jump through too
      > many hoops just to get even - they won't. Unfortunately many may not
      > even be aware they are using a program that is under performing on
      > their computer and instead blame the MODE.

      Well, one difficulty that has been pointed out is that it is not easy to
      identify the many possible parameter variants, and a sub-standard setup
      will make it certainly harder to identify. I am a believer that Olivia
      deserves more popularity than MFSK, but it seems to be happening the
      other way around.

      > I strongly urge ANYONE and EVERYONE to perform tests themselves for
      > their OWN hardware and use what works best. Don't take it for granted
      > that all programs work as well as others on all modes. And in the end
      > excuses and/or opinions won't matter.

      I think it is fair. I have not engaged in doing it myself, but will try
      to make some comparative captures and rate them later when time allows.

      Patrick, F6CTE ran a series of tests sampling at 48 kHz, but there was
      not any clear adventage among the responses he received regarding 48 kHz
      to be "the magic solution".


      73,

      Jose, CO2JA
    • Gary L. Robinson
      I firmly believe that one of the reasons (certainly not the only) reason that Olivia has NOT become more popular is that ALL 3 of the major programs that have
      Message 2 of 23 , May 13, 2008
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        I firmly believe that one of the reasons (certainly not the only) reason that Olivia has NOT become more popular is that ALL 3 of the major programs that have Olivia in them on the Windows platform are fairly complicated for many users - DM780 is probably the one that uses more resources and MixW costs too much by the standard of many "frugal" hams hi hi.

        What would really help would be a program like Digipan with Olivia added - a little more simple on the surface but still with more features than Olivia Aid. 

        At least that is my opinion ....

        On 5/13/08, Jose A. Amador <amador@...> wrote:

        garylinnrobinson wrote:

        > I didn't start out to prove anything but my results were clear and
        > quantitative. On all 4 of my computers with settings optimized and
        > sound cards aligned properly MultiPSK did not perform as well as DM780
        > or FLDigi on Olivia modes.

        > It is easy and convenient to pass it off as "operator" error or
        > inexperience. Easy to come up with other reasons too - many of which
        > may be valid - but the bottom line - if users have to jump through too
        > many hoops just to get even - they won't. Unfortunately many may not
        > even be aware they are using a program that is under performing on
        > their computer and instead blame the MODE.

        Well, one difficulty that has been pointed out is that it is not easy to
        identify the many possible parameter variants, and a sub-standard setup
        will make it certainly harder to identify. I am a believer that Olivia
        deserves more popularity than MFSK, but it seems to be happening the
        other way around.

        > I strongly urge ANYONE and EVERYONE to perform tests themselves for
        > their OWN hardware and use what works best. Don't take it for granted
        > that all programs work as well as others on all modes. And in the end
        > excuses and/or opinions won't matter.

        I think it is fair. I have not engaged in doing it myself, but will try
        to make some comparative captures and rate them later when time allows.

        Patrick, F6CTE ran a series of tests sampling at 48 kHz, but there was
        not any clear adventage among the responses he received regarding 48 kHz
        to be "the magic solution".

        73,

        Jose, CO2JA




        --

        Gary L. Robinson
        WB8ROL
        grobin1949@...
      • Waldis Jirgens
        Hi All, May be some Windows programmer could port open-source programs like gMFSK.hkj.53 or fldigi to the Windows platform? Particularly the former performs
        Message 3 of 23 , May 14, 2008
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          Hi All,

          May be some Windows programmer could port open-source programs like
          gMFSK.hkj.53 or fldigi to the Windows platform? Particularly the former
          performs like a dream in Olivia and uses very few resources.

          Alternatively LINUX has now become so easy to install, use and maintain
          and has so many different programs available, that I don't see any need
          to use Windows any more. Especially the "frugal" hams will appreciate
          the concept of "open source software" and that they don't have to pay
          for doing simple tasks or installing software on multiple PCs :-)
          --
          73: Waldis Jirgens - VK1WJ - http://mywebpage.netscape.com/ilgonis


          Gary L. Robinson wrote:
          >
          >
          > I firmly believe that one of the reasons (certainly not the only) reason
          > that Olivia has NOT become more popular is that ALL 3 of the major
          > programs that have Olivia in them on the Windows platform are fairly
          > complicated for many users - DM780 is probably the one that uses more
          > resources and MixW costs too much by the standard of many "frugal" hams
          > hi hi.
          >
          > What would really help would be a program like Digipan with Olivia added
          > - a little more simple on the surface but still with more features than
          > Olivia Aid.
          >
          > At least that is my opinion ....
        • Simon Brown
          The resources used by Olivia depend on how you drive it. Pavel s code is excellent, way above most other work I have seen. Fldigi uses this as do many Windows
          Message 4 of 23 , May 14, 2008
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            The resources used by Olivia depend on how you drive it. Pavel's code is
            excellent, way above most other work I have seen. Fldigi uses this as do
            many Windows programs.

            It will not matter whether you use Linux or Windows - the actual engine will
            use the same resources.

            The downside of porting or writing any new program is that you are inundated
            with requests for extra modes and features - I've just spent 18 months
            getting a multi-mode Windows program working where I use a lot of code from
            Fldigi. The best part is when you stop coding.

            Simon Brown, HB9DRV

            --------------------------------------------------
            From: "Waldis Jirgens" <waldis@...>
            >
            > May be some Windows programmer could port open-source programs like
            > gMFSK.hkj.53 or fldigi to the Windows platform? Particularly the former
            > performs like a dream in Olivia and uses very few resources.
            >
          • Rick Kunath
            ... Actually, there *is* a version of FLdigi that has been ported over to Windows and runs in a bundled Cygwin environment. It works and looks just like the
            Message 5 of 23 , May 14, 2008
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              Waldis Jirgens wrote:

              > May be some Windows programmer could port open-source programs like
              > gMFSK.hkj.53 or fldigi to the Windows platform? Particularly the former
              > performs like a dream in Olivia and uses very few resources.

              Actually, there *is* a version of FLdigi that has been ported over to
              Windows and runs in a bundled Cygwin environment. It works and looks
              just like the Linux version.

              It's been available for a while now to the NBEMS Yahoo group folks.

              New features and modes currently being tested in alpha also.

              Rick Kunath, k9ao
            • Karl Larsen
              ... I have Linux and Gmfsk which is the Linux MixW and I would like to run tests with others that keep the hardware constant and try the various modes with
              Message 6 of 23 , May 14, 2008
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                Jose A. Amador wrote:
                > garylinnrobinson wrote:
                >
                >
                >> I didn't start out to prove anything but my results were clear and
                >> quantitative. On all 4 of my computers with settings optimized and
                >> sound cards aligned properly MultiPSK did not perform as well as DM780
                >> or FLDigi on Olivia modes.
                >>
                >
                >
                >> It is easy and convenient to pass it off as "operator" error or
                >> inexperience. Easy to come up with other reasons too - many of which
                >> may be valid - but the bottom line - if users have to jump through too
                >> many hoops just to get even - they won't. Unfortunately many may not
                >> even be aware they are using a program that is under performing on
                >> their computer and instead blame the MODE.
                >>
                >
                > Well, one difficulty that has been pointed out is that it is not easy to
                > identify the many possible parameter variants, and a sub-standard setup
                > will make it certainly harder to identify. I am a believer that Olivia
                > deserves more popularity than MFSK, but it seems to be happening the
                > other way around.
                >
                >
                >> I strongly urge ANYONE and EVERYONE to perform tests themselves for
                >> their OWN hardware and use what works best. Don't take it for granted
                >> that all programs work as well as others on all modes. And in the end
                >> excuses and/or opinions won't matter.
                >>
                >
                > I think it is fair. I have not engaged in doing it myself, but will try
                > to make some comparative captures and rate them later when time allows.
                >
                > Patrick, F6CTE ran a series of tests sampling at 48 kHz, but there was
                > not any clear adventage among the responses he received regarding 48 kHz
                > to be "the magic solution".
                >
                >
                > 73,
                >
                > Jose, CO2JA
                >
                > My problem is I do not have 5 computers and even if I did I would not know how to conduct a test. I would have to multiplex the antenna to the 5 computers and would do it at the box that interfaces to the radio.
                >

                I have Linux and Gmfsk which is the Linux MixW and I would like to
                run tests with others that keep the hardware constant and try the
                various modes with real conditions. This takes a lot of time.

                Karl

                --

                Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI
                Linux User
                #450462 http://counter.li.org
                PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7
              • Waldis Jirgens
                Hi All, Testing is no big deal. Capture a few minutes of Olivia audio from your RX on tape or an mp3 player, then play it back to the various programs
                Message 7 of 23 , May 14, 2008
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                  Hi All,

                  Testing is no big deal. Capture a few minutes of Olivia audio from your
                  RX on tape or an mp3 player, then play it back to the various programs
                  sequentially at your leisure!

                  Karl Larsen wrote:
                  <snip>
                  > > My problem is I do not have 5 computers and even if I did I would not
                  > know how to conduct a test. I would have to multiplex the antenna to the
                  > 5 computers and would do it at the box that interfaces to the radio.
                  > >
                  >
                  > I have Linux and Gmfsk which is the Linux MixW and I would like to
                  > run tests with others that keep the hardware constant and try the
                  > various modes with real conditions. This takes a lot of time.
                  >
                  > Karl
                  >
                  > --
                  >
                  > Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI
                  > Linux User
                  > #450462 http://counter.li.org <http://counter.li.org>
                  > PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7


                  --
                  73: Waldis Jirgens - VK1WJ - http://mywebpage.netscape.com/ilgonis
                • Waldis Jirgens
                  Hi All, If you have high noise level on the DX bands, check if your ADSL Router might be the problem. By switching it off I reduced my noise level on 30m from
                  Message 8 of 23 , May 19, 2008
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                    Hi All,

                    If you have high noise level on the DX bands, check if your ADSL Router
                    might be the problem. By switching it off I reduced my noise level on
                    30m from S9 to S3!

                    As a permanent solution I put it in an emptied out PC case, just feeding
                    the ethernet cables, phone line and power through a slit. Same result as
                    switching it off!

                    --
                    73: Waldis Jirgens - VK1WJ - http://mywebpage.netscape.com/ilgonis
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