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  • buddiebuddiee
    My contention is that the Treasury Dept. / IRS carries the burden of proof and not the citizen. Steve..You stating that the IRS carries the burden of
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 16, 2003
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      "My contention is that the Treasury Dept. / IRS carries the burden of
      proof and not the citizen. "

      Steve..You stating that the IRS carries the "burden" of proof???
      HELLO???? WHY should any peon keep receipts about themselves that
      would be USED AGAINST them??

      INCOME TAX = SLAVERY -- plain & simple!! It's a CONTROL mechanism and
      and EXTORTION!!!

      Governments are SERVANTS of the people and pray tell -- WHEN have the
      SERVANTS become the MASTERS and the People their Servants?

      And pleeeaaaazzze...DON'T talk about "paying one's share" -- THAT's a
      lot of BS!!! Why is it that people LOVE slavery and DON'T want OTHERS
      to get out of THIS prison?

      We've been PROGRAMMED from the day we born to ACCEPT authority and
      NOT question ANYTHING OR ANYBODY!

      Buddie




      --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...> wrote:
      > Buddie,
      >
      > This is a difficult question to answer. What I believe at bottom
      line
      > is that government believes that
      > it has the right to tax people and to use the IRS as its agency to
      do so
      > with respect to the federal
      > income tax. Actually, over the years I have collected a lot of
      > information on what I call the
      > Lore and Legend of the Income Tax Protest Movement. After
      examining a
      > lot of it in detail I
      > have had to throw some of it out totally. For example, the
      suggestion
      > that people are citizens of their
      > state, and not of the United States. It simply doesn't work.
      However,
      > there are other arguments which
      > might have merit, but are not addressed by the courts or the
      government.
      >
      > My major issue is not whether the income tax is legal, but whether
      it is
      > enforced in a legal fashion.
      > My contention is that the Treasury Dept. / IRS carries the burden
      of
      > proof and not the citizen.
      > Otherwise the citizen is placed in a position of inequity similar
      to
      > that which caused the courts
      > to rule against contracts of adhesion.
      >
      > The government position is to hide behind the myth that most tax
      > proceedings are civil, rather than
      > criminal matters, but that is not relevant. Even in civil matters
      the
      > person making the contention has
      > the burden of proof. If the IRS says you owe the tax then they
      must
      > show how and why.
      >
      > You may want to look at a short piece I have coming up on
      > Intellectualconservative.com in the next
      > few days.
      >
      > I'm originally from Berzerkly Calif. One parent German and the
      other
      > Canadian but naturalized
      > American by serving with the US army in WW 2.
      >
      >
      > Steve Laib
      >
      > buddiebuddiee wrote:
      >
      > >
      > > Steve? You are American, I gather. The IRS. You believe they have
      the
      > > authority to tax people? And do you believe that Income Tax is
      > > Legal/ILLEGAL?
      > >
      > > Am Canadian...Europen-born.
      > >
      > > Buddie
      > >
      > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...> wrote:
      > > > Do they actually investigate is an excellent question. One
      might
      > > also
      > > > ask if they investigate only to
      > > > confirm previously held beliefs, or do they go all the way to
      find
      > > out
      > > > if they are correct in those
      > > > beliefs.
      > > >
      > > > Since I do commentary, my duty is not to present only the facts,
      > > but my
      > > > thinking concerning them.
      > > > When I wrote on exclusively tax law developments, years ago, I
      had
      > > a
      > > > significant duty to be accurate
      > > > in my presentation of what changes had occurred. My comments
      were
      > > my
      > > > own thinking and were
      > > > expected to get people to investigate and draw their own
      > > conclusions.
      > > > This should be extremely
      > > > important in complex areas where people don't often know what is
      > > > happening. I recall some
      > > > items in the Tax Act of 1986 which did exactly the opposite of
      what
      > > the
      > > > legislature wanted and
      > > > had to be rewritten. Thus, it pays to be very careful.
      > > >
      > > > Steve Laib
      > > >
      > > > buddiebuddiee wrote:
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Sartre -- And do they ACTUALLY investigate?? Or they given
      already
      > > > > PREPARED scripts to mouth off on television and in print?!
      > > > >
      > > > > Buddie
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, "sartrejp" <sartrejp@f...>
      wrote:
      > > > > > Buddie,
      > > > > >
      > > > > > How about investigating and reporting facts! The role of the
      > > > > commentator is
      > > > > > to offer an explanation for their significance.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > SARTRE
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > > > From: "buddiebuddiee" <Buddie29@h...>
      > > > > > To: <oldright@yahoogroups.com>
      > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:30 PM
      > > > > > Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES
      http://batr.org
      > > > > First time
      > > > > > post and DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > You are ALL intellectuals here with many Doctor/ed
      degrees ;)
      > > and
      > > > > > > some BSers here...no? ;)
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > My MAJOR beef is with the MAINSTREAM MEDIA..
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > What is the MAIN job of a reporter/journalist? Anyone here
      > > care to
      > > > > > > enlighten me?
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > TIA
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Buddie
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > > > > > > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
      > > > > ADVERTISEMENT
      > > > >
      > >
      <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17
      > >
      05060375:HM/A=1732161/R=0/SIG=11p5b9ris/*http://www.ediets.com/start.c
      > > fm?code=30509&media=atkins>
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > > > > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
      > > Service
      > > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
      > > ADVERTISEMENT
      > >
      <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17
      05060375:HM/A=1732163/R=0/SIG=11n0nglqg/*http://www.ediets.com/start.c
      fm?code=30510&media=zone>
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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      > >
      > >
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      Service
      > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
    • sam
      ....report the news as they see it before it is twisted and distorted by their editors!!! ... From: buddiebuddiee To: oldright@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday,
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 16, 2003
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        ....report the news as they see it before
        it is twisted and distorted by their
        editors!!!
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 1:30 PM
        Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES http://batr.org First time post and DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL


        You are ALL intellectuals here with many Doctor/ed degrees ;) and
        some BSers here...no? ;)

        My MAJOR beef is with the MAINSTREAM MEDIA..

        What is the MAIN job of a reporter/journalist? Anyone here care to
        enlighten me?

        TIA

        Buddie



        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      • Steven Laib
        Buddie, I hate to say this, but you haven t been paying attention. I said that the IRS should have the burden of proof, but I didn t say anything about the
        Message 3 of 14 , Sep 16, 2003
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          Buddie,

          I hate to say this, but you haven't been paying attention. 

          I said that the IRS should have the burden of proof, but I didn't say anything about
          the citizen having to provide records.  Besides, in most instances, the citizen has the
          reciepts and the IRS says they don't and wants them produced. 

          Fortunately, I don't take the rest of your post seriously.

          Steve Laib

          buddiebuddiee wrote:

          "My contention is that the Treasury Dept. / IRS carries the burden of
          proof and not the citizen. "

          Steve..You stating that the IRS carries the "burden" of proof???
          HELLO???? WHY should any  peon keep receipts about themselves that
          would be USED AGAINST them??

          INCOME TAX = SLAVERY -- plain & simple!! It's a CONTROL mechanism and
          and EXTORTION!!!

          Governments are SERVANTS of the people and pray tell -- WHEN have the
          SERVANTS  become the MASTERS and the People their Servants?

          And pleeeaaaazzze...DON'T talk about "paying one's share" -- THAT's a
          lot of BS!!! Why is it that people LOVE slavery and DON'T want OTHERS
          to get out of THIS prison?

          We've been PROGRAMMED from the day we born to ACCEPT authority and
          NOT question ANYTHING OR ANYBODY!

          Buddie




          --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...> wrote:
          > Buddie,
          >
          > This is a difficult question to answer.  What I believe at bottom
          line
          > is that government believes that
          > it has the right to tax people and to use the IRS as its agency to
          do so
          > with respect to the federal
          > income tax.  Actually, over the years I have collected a lot of
          > information on what I call the
          > Lore and Legend of the Income Tax Protest Movement.  After
          examining a
          > lot of it in detail I
          > have had to throw some of it out totally.  For example, the
          suggestion
          > that people are citizens of their
          > state, and not of the United States.  It simply doesn't work. 
          However,
          > there are other arguments which
          > might have merit, but are not addressed by the courts or the
          government.
          >
          > My major issue is not whether the income tax is legal, but whether
          it is
          > enforced in a legal fashion.
          > My contention is that the Treasury Dept. / IRS carries the burden
          of
          > proof and not the citizen.
          > Otherwise the citizen is placed in a position of inequity similar
          to
          > that which caused the courts
          > to rule against contracts of adhesion.
          >
          > The government position is to hide behind the myth that most tax
          > proceedings are civil, rather than
          > criminal matters, but that is not relevant.  Even in civil matters
          the
          > person making the contention has
          > the burden of proof.  If the IRS says you owe the tax then they
          must
          > show how and why.
          >
          > You may want to look at a short piece I have coming up on
          > Intellectualconservative.com in the next
          > few days.
          >
          > I'm originally from Berzerkly Calif.  One parent German and the
          other
          > Canadian but naturalized
          > American by serving with the US army in WW 2.
          >
          >
          > Steve Laib
          >
          > buddiebuddiee wrote:
          >
          > >
          > > Steve? You are American, I gather. The IRS. You believe they have
          the
          > > authority to tax people? And do you believe that Income Tax is
          > > Legal/ILLEGAL?
          > >
          > > Am Canadian...Europen-born.
          > >
          > > Buddie
          > >
          > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...> wrote:
          > > > Do they actually investigate is an excellent question.  One
          might
          > > also
          > > > ask if they investigate only to
          > > > confirm previously held beliefs, or do they go all the way to
          find
          > > out
          > > > if they are correct in those
          > > > beliefs.
          > > >
          > > > Since I do commentary, my duty is not to present only the facts,
          > > but my
          > > > thinking concerning them.
          > > > When I wrote on exclusively tax law developments, years ago,  I
          had
          > > a
          > > > significant duty to be accurate
          > > > in my presentation of what  changes had occurred.  My comments
          were
          > > my
          > > > own thinking and were
          > > > expected to get people to investigate and draw their own
          > > conclusions.
          > > > This should be extremely
          > > > important in complex areas where people don't often know what is
          > > > happening.  I recall some
          > > > items in the Tax Act of 1986 which did exactly the opposite of
          what
          > > the
          > > > legislature wanted and
          > > > had to be rewritten.  Thus, it pays to be very careful.
          > > >
          > > > Steve Laib
          > > >
          > > > buddiebuddiee wrote:
          > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Sartre -- And do they ACTUALLY investigate?? Or they given
          already
          > > > > PREPARED scripts to mouth off on television and in print?!
          > > > >
          > > > > Buddie
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, "sartrejp" <sartrejp@f...>
          wrote:
          > > > > > Buddie,
          > > > > >
          > > > > > How about investigating and reporting facts! The role of the
          > > > > commentator is
          > > > > > to offer an explanation for their significance.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > SARTRE
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > > > > From: "buddiebuddiee" <Buddie29@h...>
          > > > > > To: <oldright@yahoogroups.com>
          > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:30 PM
          > > > > > Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES
          http://batr.org
          > > > > First time
          > > > > > post and DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > You are ALL intellectuals here with many Doctor/ed
          degrees ;)
          > > and
          > > > > > > some BSers here...no? ;)
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > My MAJOR beef is with the MAINSTREAM MEDIA..
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > What is the MAIN job of a reporter/journalist? Anyone here
          > > care to
          > > > > > > enlighten me?
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > TIA
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Buddie
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > > > > > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > > > > ADVERTISEMENT
          > > > >
          > >
          <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17
          > >
          05060375:HM/A=1732161/R=0/SIG=11p5b9ris/*http://www.ediets.com/start.c
          > > fm?code=30509&media=atkins>
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > > > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          > > Service
          > > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > > ADVERTISEMENT
          > >
          <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17
          05060375:HM/A=1732163/R=0/SIG=11n0nglqg/*http://www.ediets.com/start.c
          fm?code=30510&media=zone>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service
          > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.



          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        • buddiebuddiee
          Then what you saying, Sam...is that it s ALL LIES -- what the media prints and reads off their prepared scripts? Buddie ... First time post and DON T know WHY
          Message 4 of 14 , Sep 16, 2003
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            Then what you saying, Sam...is that it's ALL LIES -- what the media
            prints and reads off their prepared scripts?

            Buddie

            --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, "sam" <mugwump@h...> wrote:
            > ....report the news as they see it before
            > it is twisted and distorted by their
            > editors!!!
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: buddiebuddiee
            > To: oldright@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 1:30 PM
            > Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES http://batr.org
            First time post and DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL
            >
            >
            >
            > You are ALL intellectuals here with many Doctor/ed degrees ;) and
            > some BSers here...no? ;)
            >
            > My MAJOR beef is with the MAINSTREAM MEDIA..
            >
            > What is the MAIN job of a reporter/journalist? Anyone here care
            to
            > enlighten me?
            >
            > TIA
            >
            > Buddie
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > ADVERTISEMENT
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service.
          • buddiebuddiee
            Ya..You caught me alright. ;) I have a tendency to speedread. :) Fortunately ???LOL...Why you saying that? Just curious...ok? Buddie ... say ... the ...
            Message 5 of 14 , Sep 16, 2003
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              Ya..You caught me alright. ;) I have a tendency to speedread. :)

              "Fortunately"???LOL...Why you saying that? Just curious...ok?

              Buddie


              --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...> wrote:
              > Buddie,
              >
              > I hate to say this, but you haven't been paying attention.
              >
              > I said that the IRS should have the burden of proof, but I didn't
              say
              > anything about
              > the citizen having to provide records. Besides, in most instances,
              the
              > citizen has the
              > reciepts and the IRS says they don't and wants them produced.
              >
              > Fortunately, I don't take the rest of your post seriously.
              >
              > Steve Laib
              >
              > buddiebuddiee wrote:
              >
              > >
              > > "My contention is that the Treasury Dept. / IRS carries the
              burden of
              > > proof and not the citizen. "
              > >
              > > Steve..You stating that the IRS carries the "burden" of proof???
              > > HELLO???? WHY should any peon keep receipts about themselves that
              > > would be USED AGAINST them??
              > >
              > > INCOME TAX = SLAVERY -- plain & simple!! It's a CONTROL mechanism
              and
              > > and EXTORTION!!!
              > >
              > > Governments are SERVANTS of the people and pray tell -- WHEN have
              the
              > > SERVANTS become the MASTERS and the People their Servants?
              > >
              > > And pleeeaaaazzze...DON'T talk about "paying one's share" --
              THAT's a
              > > lot of BS!!! Why is it that people LOVE slavery and DON'T want
              OTHERS
              > > to get out of THIS prison?
              > >
              > > We've been PROGRAMMED from the day we born to ACCEPT authority and
              > > NOT question ANYTHING OR ANYBODY!
              > >
              > > Buddie
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...> wrote:
              > > > Buddie,
              > > >
              > > > This is a difficult question to answer. What I believe at
              bottom
              > > line
              > > > is that government believes that
              > > > it has the right to tax people and to use the IRS as its agency
              to
              > > do so
              > > > with respect to the federal
              > > > income tax. Actually, over the years I have collected a lot of
              > > > information on what I call the
              > > > Lore and Legend of the Income Tax Protest Movement. After
              > > examining a
              > > > lot of it in detail I
              > > > have had to throw some of it out totally. For example, the
              > > suggestion
              > > > that people are citizens of their
              > > > state, and not of the United States. It simply doesn't work.
              > > However,
              > > > there are other arguments which
              > > > might have merit, but are not addressed by the courts or the
              > > government.
              > > >
              > > > My major issue is not whether the income tax is legal, but
              whether
              > > it is
              > > > enforced in a legal fashion.
              > > > My contention is that the Treasury Dept. / IRS carries the
              burden
              > > of
              > > > proof and not the citizen.
              > > > Otherwise the citizen is placed in a position of inequity
              similar
              > > to
              > > > that which caused the courts
              > > > to rule against contracts of adhesion.
              > > >
              > > > The government position is to hide behind the myth that most tax
              > > > proceedings are civil, rather than
              > > > criminal matters, but that is not relevant. Even in civil
              matters
              > > the
              > > > person making the contention has
              > > > the burden of proof. If the IRS says you owe the tax then they
              > > must
              > > > show how and why.
              > > >
              > > > You may want to look at a short piece I have coming up on
              > > > Intellectualconservative.com in the next
              > > > few days.
              > > >
              > > > I'm originally from Berzerkly Calif. One parent German and the
              > > other
              > > > Canadian but naturalized
              > > > American by serving with the US army in WW 2.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Steve Laib
              > > >
              > > > buddiebuddiee wrote:
              > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Steve? You are American, I gather. The IRS. You believe they
              have
              > > the
              > > > > authority to tax people? And do you believe that Income Tax is
              > > > > Legal/ILLEGAL?
              > > > >
              > > > > Am Canadian...Europen-born.
              > > > >
              > > > > Buddie
              > > > >
              > > > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...>
              wrote:
              > > > > > Do they actually investigate is an excellent question. One
              > > might
              > > > > also
              > > > > > ask if they investigate only to
              > > > > > confirm previously held beliefs, or do they go all the way
              to
              > > find
              > > > > out
              > > > > > if they are correct in those
              > > > > > beliefs.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Since I do commentary, my duty is not to present only the
              facts,
              > > > > but my
              > > > > > thinking concerning them.
              > > > > > When I wrote on exclusively tax law developments, years
              ago, I
              > > had
              > > > > a
              > > > > > significant duty to be accurate
              > > > > > in my presentation of what changes had occurred. My
              comments
              > > were
              > > > > my
              > > > > > own thinking and were
              > > > > > expected to get people to investigate and draw their own
              > > > > conclusions.
              > > > > > This should be extremely
              > > > > > important in complex areas where people don't often know
              what is
              > > > > > happening. I recall some
              > > > > > items in the Tax Act of 1986 which did exactly the opposite
              of
              > > what
              > > > > the
              > > > > > legislature wanted and
              > > > > > had to be rewritten. Thus, it pays to be very careful.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Steve Laib
              > > > > >
              > > > > > buddiebuddiee wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Sartre -- And do they ACTUALLY investigate?? Or they given
              > > already
              > > > > > > PREPARED scripts to mouth off on television and in print?!
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Buddie
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, "sartrejp"
              <sartrejp@f...>
              > > wrote:
              > > > > > > > Buddie,
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > How about investigating and reporting facts! The role
              of the
              > > > > > > commentator is
              > > > > > > > to offer an explanation for their significance.
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > SARTRE
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > > > > > > From: "buddiebuddiee" <Buddie29@h...>
              > > > > > > > To: <oldright@yahoogroups.com>
              > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:30 PM
              > > > > > > > Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES
              > > http://batr.org
              > > > > > > First time
              > > > > > > > post and DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > You are ALL intellectuals here with many Doctor/ed
              > > degrees ;)
              > > > > and
              > > > > > > > > some BSers here...no? ;)
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > My MAJOR beef is with the MAINSTREAM MEDIA..
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > What is the MAIN job of a reporter/journalist? Anyone
              here
              > > > > care to
              > > > > > > > > enlighten me?
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > TIA
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > Buddie
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > > > > > > > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > >
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              > > > > > >
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              > >
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              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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            • Steven Laib
              Consider, I was invited to join this group in part because of my demonstrated ability. Sartre and I have crossed words on occasion because we disagree, but we
              Message 6 of 14 , Sep 16, 2003
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                Consider,

                I was invited to join this group in part because of my demonstrated ability.  Sartre
                and I have crossed words on occasion because we disagree, but we do it cordially, and
                without overt emotional overtones.  We also take the time to read each other's notes and
                make sure we understand each other before going off half cocked. 

                I expect, perhaps wrongly, that others take the time and care that I do in forming
                conclusions before writing back.  After years of intellectual discussion with people
                of all ranks and education levels I've found that it is a bad idea to form any conclusions
                too fast and then act on them without thinking. 

                Now consider that even Ben Franklin said that taxes are the price we pay for civilization. 
                Jesus said that we should render unto Caesar what is Caesar's.  Tithing has been a constant
                in the Bible, and in other societies where religion plays a significant role. 

                These are two starting points for the position that some level of taxation can be considered
                legitimate.  Of course, I could assume that you are an atheist, or anarchist, but I might be
                wrong.  Most people I know would agree that government can serve some legitimate
                service, therefore, it is necessary to find some source of funding.  If you have a better
                idea than taxation, tell me what it is and I'll listen. 

                Finally, if I did take the rest of what you wrote seriously, I'd have to write you off as
                a less than serious participant in this group, and simply ignore what you had to say.
                That would be a shame for both of us. 

                Cordially,

                Steve Laib

                buddiebuddiee wrote:

                Ya..You caught me alright. ;) I have a tendency to speedread. :)

                "Fortunately"???LOL...Why you saying that? Just curious...ok?

                Buddie


                --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...> wrote:
                > Buddie,
                >
                > I hate to say this, but you haven't been paying attention.
                >
                > I said that the IRS should have the burden of proof, but I didn't
                say
                > anything about
                > the citizen having to provide records.  Besides, in most instances,
                the
                > citizen has the
                > reciepts and the IRS says they don't and wants them produced.
                >
                > Fortunately, I don't take the rest of your post seriously.
                >
                > Steve Laib
                >
                > buddiebuddiee wrote:
                >
                > >
                > > "My contention is that the Treasury Dept. / IRS carries the
                burden of
                > > proof and not the citizen. "
                > >
                > > Steve..You stating that the IRS carries the "burden" of proof???
                > > HELLO???? WHY should any  peon keep receipts about themselves that
                > > would be USED AGAINST them??
                > >
                > > INCOME TAX = SLAVERY -- plain & simple!! It's a CONTROL mechanism
                and
                > > and EXTORTION!!!
                > >
                > > Governments are SERVANTS of the people and pray tell -- WHEN have
                the
                > > SERVANTS  become the MASTERS and the People their Servants?
                > >
                > > And pleeeaaaazzze...DON'T talk about "paying one's share" --
                THAT's a
                > > lot of BS!!! Why is it that people LOVE slavery and DON'T want
                OTHERS
                > > to get out of THIS prison?
                > >
                > > We've been PROGRAMMED from the day we born to ACCEPT authority and
                > > NOT question ANYTHING OR ANYBODY!
                > >
                > > Buddie
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...> wrote:
                > > > Buddie,
                > > >
                > > > This is a difficult question to answer.  What I believe at
                bottom
                > > line
                > > > is that government believes that
                > > > it has the right to tax people and to use the IRS as its agency
                to
                > > do so
                > > > with respect to the federal
                > > > income tax.  Actually, over the years I have collected a lot of
                > > > information on what I call the
                > > > Lore and Legend of the Income Tax Protest Movement.  After
                > > examining a
                > > > lot of it in detail I
                > > > have had to throw some of it out totally.  For example, the
                > > suggestion
                > > > that people are citizens of their
                > > > state, and not of the United States.  It simply doesn't work.
                > > However,
                > > > there are other arguments which
                > > > might have merit, but are not addressed by the courts or the
                > > government.
                > > >
                > > > My major issue is not whether the income tax is legal, but
                whether
                > > it is
                > > > enforced in a legal fashion.
                > > > My contention is that the Treasury Dept. / IRS carries the
                burden
                > > of
                > > > proof and not the citizen.
                > > > Otherwise the citizen is placed in a position of inequity
                similar
                > > to
                > > > that which caused the courts
                > > > to rule against contracts of adhesion.
                > > >
                > > > The government position is to hide behind the myth that most tax
                > > > proceedings are civil, rather than
                > > > criminal matters, but that is not relevant.  Even in civil
                matters
                > > the
                > > > person making the contention has
                > > > the burden of proof.  If the IRS says you owe the tax then they
                > > must
                > > > show how and why.
                > > >
                > > > You may want to look at a short piece I have coming up on
                > > > Intellectualconservative.com in the next
                > > > few days.
                > > >
                > > > I'm originally from Berzerkly Calif.  One parent German and the
                > > other
                > > > Canadian but naturalized
                > > > American by serving with the US army in WW 2.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Steve Laib
                > > >
                > > > buddiebuddiee wrote:
                > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Steve? You are American, I gather. The IRS. You believe they
                have
                > > the
                > > > > authority to tax people? And do you believe that Income Tax is
                > > > > Legal/ILLEGAL?
                > > > >
                > > > > Am Canadian...Europen-born.
                > > > >
                > > > > Buddie
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...>
                wrote:
                > > > > > Do they actually investigate is an excellent question.  One
                > > might
                > > > > also
                > > > > > ask if they investigate only to
                > > > > > confirm previously held beliefs, or do they go all the way
                to
                > > find
                > > > > out
                > > > > > if they are correct in those
                > > > > > beliefs.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Since I do commentary, my duty is not to present only the
                facts,
                > > > > but my
                > > > > > thinking concerning them.
                > > > > > When I wrote on exclusively tax law developments, years
                ago,  I
                > > had
                > > > > a
                > > > > > significant duty to be accurate
                > > > > > in my presentation of what  changes had occurred.  My
                comments
                > > were
                > > > > my
                > > > > > own thinking and were
                > > > > > expected to get people to investigate and draw their own
                > > > > conclusions.
                > > > > > This should be extremely
                > > > > > important in complex areas where people don't often know
                what is
                > > > > > happening.  I recall some
                > > > > > items in the Tax Act of 1986 which did exactly the opposite
                of
                > > what
                > > > > the
                > > > > > legislature wanted and
                > > > > > had to be rewritten.  Thus, it pays to be very careful.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Steve Laib
                > > > > >
                > > > > > buddiebuddiee wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Sartre -- And do they ACTUALLY investigate?? Or they given
                > > already
                > > > > > > PREPARED scripts to mouth off on television and in print?!
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Buddie
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, "sartrejp"
                <sartrejp@f...>
                > > wrote:
                > > > > > > > Buddie,
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > How about investigating and reporting facts! The role
                of the
                > > > > > > commentator is
                > > > > > > > to offer an explanation for their significance.
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > SARTRE
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > > > > > > From: "buddiebuddiee" <Buddie29@h...>
                > > > > > > > To: <oldright@yahoogroups.com>
                > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:30 PM
                > > > > > > > Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES
                > > http://batr.org
                > > > > > > First time
                > > > > > > > post and DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > You are ALL intellectuals here with many Doctor/ed
                > > degrees ;)
                > > > > and
                > > > > > > > > some BSers here...no? ;)
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > My MAJOR beef is with the MAINSTREAM MEDIA..
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > What is the MAIN job of a reporter/journalist? Anyone
                here
                > > > > care to
                > > > > > > > > enlighten me?
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > TIA
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > Buddie
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > > > > > > > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > >
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                > >
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                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                > > > >
                > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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              • sam
                If the reporter on the scene is HONEST he reports what he sees etc. However when he turns his story into his editor who has been bought and paid for by the
                Message 7 of 14 , Sep 16, 2003
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                  If the reporter on the scene is HONEST
                  he reports what he sees etc.  However
                  when he turns his story into his editor
                  who has been bought and paid for by the
                  powers that be, his original story has
                  bee boiled down to what his boss is
                  allowed to broadcast.  This has been the
                  case for probably close to 100 years.
                   
                  This is not so much on the local level as
                  in the national level for instance the actual
                  number of our boys over in the middle east who have been killed which is thousands and not the hundred that
                  are reported.  Not long ago I read that
                  a grave was found with hundreds of
                  US serviceman's bodies but not a boo from
                  the major media here. I have found that the
                  foreign news will report what the U.S
                  media will not touch which is in many
                  cases the truth.  How many people actually go to foreign newspapers and
                  read articles only to find a lot of stuff
                  that was sorely missing from the news
                  here at home.
                   
                  I often wonder if the opposite is true.
                   
                  s.a.m
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:04 PM
                  Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES http://batr.org Re: Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES http://batr.org First time post and DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL


                  Then what you saying, Sam...is that it's ALL LIES -- what the media
                  prints and reads off their prepared scripts?

                  Buddie

                  --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, "sam" <mugwump@h...> wrote:
                  > ....report the news as they see it before
                  > it is twisted and distorted by their
                  > editors!!!
                  >
                  >
                  >   ----- Original Message -----
                  >   From: buddiebuddiee
                  >   To: oldright@yahoogroups.com
                  >   Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 1:30 PM
                  >   Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES http://batr.org
                  First time post and DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >   You are ALL intellectuals here with many Doctor/ed degrees ;) and
                  >   some BSers here...no? ;)
                  >
                  >   My MAJOR beef is with the MAINSTREAM MEDIA..
                  >
                  >   What is the MAIN job of a reporter/journalist? Anyone here care
                  to
                  >   enlighten me?
                  >
                  >   TIA
                  >
                  >   Buddie
                  >
                  >
                  >         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                  >             
                  >       
                  >       
                  >
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                  >
                  >
                  >
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                • buddiebuddiee
                  Forgive me Steve...Am a female and a Scorpio to boot and we emotional type..ok? :) WHY are you throwing in Ben Franklin and Jesus and other fables here? Just
                  Message 8 of 14 , Sep 16, 2003
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                    Forgive me Steve...Am a female and a Scorpio to boot and we emotional
                    type..ok? :)

                    WHY are you throwing in Ben Franklin and Jesus and other fables here?
                    Just cause THEY SUPPOSEDLY said so? Steve..YOU HAVE BEEN PROGRAMMED
                    to think the so-called PAST is the PRESENT. Am going to be jumping
                    from one subject to another...I post what comes out of my head.
                    Sorry, but am NOT like the rest of you here. I like to QUESTION
                    things and people and am NOT intimidated by people's ranks and
                    statures in life. I was brought up in a Christian home, daddy was a
                    preacher man. I know what religion is all about and it ain't pretty.
                    It's ANOTHER way of ENSLAVING people through their BELIEF system. If
                    one does NOT think like the majority -- one is ostracized. I believe
                    in a higher being -- Someone or something created us as human
                    flesh...OR maybe EACH ONE OF US IS A GOD and WE DON'T KNOW IT????
                    History is constanlty being re-written and so has the holy
                    bible/scriptures. Just like MAINSTREAM Media writes LIES these days --
                    what makes you think HIS-tory isn't BASED on LIES? In THOSE days
                    there was NO internet and people relied on other's word-of-mouth
                    tales.

                    As to taxes? How about LOTTERIES? It's SIMPLE and there's NO THREAT
                    from the GESTAPO IRS to hand over one's hard-earned money. It's time
                    for the IRS GESTAPO to get a real job...no? and NOT live off people's
                    FEARS. Something WRONG when people FEAR the IRS MORE than they fear
                    the police, etc.

                    I'm a simple minded person and can't take too much programming in one
                    take. :) I like to keep things SIMPLE.

                    Buddie

                    --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...> wrote:
                    > Consider,
                    >
                    > I was invited to join this group in part because of my demonstrated
                    > ability. Sartre
                    > and I have crossed words on occasion because we disagree, but we do
                    it
                    > cordially, and
                    > without overt emotional overtones. We also take the time to read
                    each
                    > other's notes and
                    > make sure we understand each other before going off half cocked.
                    >
                    > I expect, perhaps wrongly, that others take the time and care that
                    I do
                    > in forming
                    > conclusions before writing back. After years of intellectual
                    discussion
                    > with people
                    > of all ranks and education levels I've found that it is a bad idea
                    to
                    > form any conclusions
                    > too fast and then act on them without thinking.
                    >
                    > Now consider that even Ben Franklin said that taxes are the price
                    we pay
                    > for civilization.
                    > Jesus said that we should render unto Caesar what is Caesar's.
                    Tithing
                    > has been a constant
                    > in the Bible, and in other societies where religion plays a
                    significant
                    > role.
                    >
                    > These are two starting points for the position that some level of
                    > taxation can be considered
                    > legitimate. Of course, I could assume that you are an atheist, or
                    > anarchist, but I might be
                    > wrong. Most people I know would agree that government can serve
                    some
                    > legitimate
                    > service, therefore, it is necessary to find some source of
                    funding. If
                    > you have a better
                    > idea than taxation, tell me what it is and I'll listen.
                    >
                    > Finally, if I did take the rest of what you wrote seriously, I'd
                    have to
                    > write you off as
                    > a less than serious participant in this group, and simply ignore
                    what
                    > you had to say.
                    > That would be a shame for both of us.
                    >
                    > Cordially,
                    >
                    > Steve Laib
                    >
                    > buddiebuddiee wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    > > Ya..You caught me alright. ;) I have a tendency to speedread. :)
                    > >
                    > > "Fortunately"???LOL...Why you saying that? Just curious...ok?
                    > >
                    > > Buddie
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...> wrote:
                    > > > Buddie,
                    > > >
                    > > > I hate to say this, but you haven't been paying attention.
                    > > >
                    > > > I said that the IRS should have the burden of proof, but I
                    didn't
                    > > say
                    > > > anything about
                    > > > the citizen having to provide records. Besides, in most
                    instances,
                    > > the
                    > > > citizen has the
                    > > > reciepts and the IRS says they don't and wants them produced.
                    > > >
                    > > > Fortunately, I don't take the rest of your post seriously.
                    > > >
                    > > > Steve Laib
                    > > >
                    > > > buddiebuddiee wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > "My contention is that the Treasury Dept. / IRS carries the
                    > > burden of
                    > > > > proof and not the citizen. "
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Steve..You stating that the IRS carries the "burden" of
                    proof???
                    > > > > HELLO???? WHY should any peon keep receipts about themselves
                    that
                    > > > > would be USED AGAINST them??
                    > > > >
                    > > > > INCOME TAX = SLAVERY -- plain & simple!! It's a CONTROL
                    mechanism
                    > > and
                    > > > > and EXTORTION!!!
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Governments are SERVANTS of the people and pray tell -- WHEN
                    have
                    > > the
                    > > > > SERVANTS become the MASTERS and the People their Servants?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > And pleeeaaaazzze...DON'T talk about "paying one's share" --
                    > > THAT's a
                    > > > > lot of BS!!! Why is it that people LOVE slavery and DON'T want
                    > > OTHERS
                    > > > > to get out of THIS prison?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > We've been PROGRAMMED from the day we born to ACCEPT
                    authority and
                    > > > > NOT question ANYTHING OR ANYBODY!
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Buddie
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...>
                    wrote:
                    > > > > > Buddie,
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > This is a difficult question to answer. What I believe at
                    > > bottom
                    > > > > line
                    > > > > > is that government believes that
                    > > > > > it has the right to tax people and to use the IRS as its
                    agency
                    > > to
                    > > > > do so
                    > > > > > with respect to the federal
                    > > > > > income tax. Actually, over the years I have collected a
                    lot of
                    > > > > > information on what I call the
                    > > > > > Lore and Legend of the Income Tax Protest Movement. After
                    > > > > examining a
                    > > > > > lot of it in detail I
                    > > > > > have had to throw some of it out totally. For example, the
                    > > > > suggestion
                    > > > > > that people are citizens of their
                    > > > > > state, and not of the United States. It simply doesn't
                    work.
                    > > > > However,
                    > > > > > there are other arguments which
                    > > > > > might have merit, but are not addressed by the courts or the
                    > > > > government.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > My major issue is not whether the income tax is legal, but
                    > > whether
                    > > > > it is
                    > > > > > enforced in a legal fashion.
                    > > > > > My contention is that the Treasury Dept. / IRS carries the
                    > > burden
                    > > > > of
                    > > > > > proof and not the citizen.
                    > > > > > Otherwise the citizen is placed in a position of inequity
                    > > similar
                    > > > > to
                    > > > > > that which caused the courts
                    > > > > > to rule against contracts of adhesion.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > The government position is to hide behind the myth that
                    most tax
                    > > > > > proceedings are civil, rather than
                    > > > > > criminal matters, but that is not relevant. Even in civil
                    > > matters
                    > > > > the
                    > > > > > person making the contention has
                    > > > > > the burden of proof. If the IRS says you owe the tax then
                    they
                    > > > > must
                    > > > > > show how and why.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > You may want to look at a short piece I have coming up on
                    > > > > > Intellectualconservative.com in the next
                    > > > > > few days.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I'm originally from Berzerkly Calif. One parent German and
                    the
                    > > > > other
                    > > > > > Canadian but naturalized
                    > > > > > American by serving with the US army in WW 2.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Steve Laib
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > buddiebuddiee wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Steve? You are American, I gather. The IRS. You believe
                    they
                    > > have
                    > > > > the
                    > > > > > > authority to tax people? And do you believe that Income
                    Tax is
                    > > > > > > Legal/ILLEGAL?
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Am Canadian...Europen-born.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Buddie
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > > > > > > Do they actually investigate is an excellent question.
                    One
                    > > > > might
                    > > > > > > also
                    > > > > > > > ask if they investigate only to
                    > > > > > > > confirm previously held beliefs, or do they go all the
                    way
                    > > to
                    > > > > find
                    > > > > > > out
                    > > > > > > > if they are correct in those
                    > > > > > > > beliefs.
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > Since I do commentary, my duty is not to present only
                    the
                    > > facts,
                    > > > > > > but my
                    > > > > > > > thinking concerning them.
                    > > > > > > > When I wrote on exclusively tax law developments, years
                    > > ago, I
                    > > > > had
                    > > > > > > a
                    > > > > > > > significant duty to be accurate
                    > > > > > > > in my presentation of what changes had occurred. My
                    > > comments
                    > > > > were
                    > > > > > > my
                    > > > > > > > own thinking and were
                    > > > > > > > expected to get people to investigate and draw their own
                    > > > > > > conclusions.
                    > > > > > > > This should be extremely
                    > > > > > > > important in complex areas where people don't often know
                    > > what is
                    > > > > > > > happening. I recall some
                    > > > > > > > items in the Tax Act of 1986 which did exactly the
                    opposite
                    > > of
                    > > > > what
                    > > > > > > the
                    > > > > > > > legislature wanted and
                    > > > > > > > had to be rewritten. Thus, it pays to be very careful.
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > Steve Laib
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > buddiebuddiee wrote:
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > Sartre -- And do they ACTUALLY investigate?? Or they
                    given
                    > > > > already
                    > > > > > > > > PREPARED scripts to mouth off on television and in
                    print?!
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > Buddie
                    > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, "sartrejp"
                    > > <sartrejp@f...>
                    > > > > wrote:
                    > > > > > > > > > Buddie,
                    > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > How about investigating and reporting facts! The
                    role
                    > > of the
                    > > > > > > > > commentator is
                    > > > > > > > > > to offer an explanation for their significance.
                    > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > SARTRE
                    > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > > > > > > > > From: "buddiebuddiee" <Buddie29@h...>
                    > > > > > > > > > To: <oldright@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:30 PM
                    > > > > > > > > > Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES
                    > > > > http://batr.org
                    > > > > > > > > First time
                    > > > > > > > > > post and DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL
                    > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > > You are ALL intellectuals here with many Doctor/ed
                    > > > > degrees ;)
                    > > > > > > and
                    > > > > > > > > > > some BSers here...no? ;)
                    > > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > > My MAJOR beef is with the MAINSTREAM MEDIA..
                    > > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > > What is the MAIN job of a reporter/journalist?
                    Anyone
                    > > here
                    > > > > > > care to
                    > > > > > > > > > > enlighten me?
                    > > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > > TIA
                    > > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > > Buddie
                    > > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > > > > > > > > > > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > > > >
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                  • buddiebuddiee
                    Yes..But just how many of the people can actually can read in the USA, S.A.M.? That s the reason Bush & Crooks, Inc. were able to get the people behind in
                    Message 9 of 14 , Sep 16, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Yes..But just how many of the people can actually can read in the
                      USA, S.A.M.? That's the reason Bush & Crooks, Inc. were able to get
                      the people behind in going to War against Iraq. They DEPEND on
                      TELEVISION -- CNN and FOX and NBC, ABC, CBS, etc., their PARTNERS-IN-
                      CRIME, to HOODWINK the public who's too burdened with taxes and just
                      making a living to care about the lives in some 3rd world country.

                      Buddie
                      Here's Pentagon's Mass Graves for the American soldiers link:

                      http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/012603A.mass.graves.htm




                      The MASS graves -- Pentagon

                      --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, "sam" <mugwump@h...> wrote:
                      > If the reporter on the scene is HONEST
                      > he reports what he sees etc. However
                      > when he turns his story into his editor
                      > who has been bought and paid for by the
                      > powers that be, his original story has
                      > bee boiled down to what his boss is
                      > allowed to broadcast. This has been the
                      > case for probably close to 100 years.
                      >
                      > This is not so much on the local level as
                      > in the national level for instance the actual
                      > number of our boys over in the middle east who have been killed
                      which is thousands and not the hundred that
                      > are reported. Not long ago I read that
                      > a grave was found with hundreds of
                      > US serviceman's bodies but not a boo from
                      > the major media here. I have found that the
                      > foreign news will report what the U.S
                      > media will not touch which is in many
                      > cases the truth. How many people actually go to foreign newspapers
                      and
                      > read articles only to find a lot of stuff
                      > that was sorely missing from the news
                      > here at home.
                      >
                      > I often wonder if the opposite is true.
                      >
                      > s.a.m
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: buddiebuddiee
                      > To: oldright@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:04 PM
                      > Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES http://batr.org
                      Re: Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES http://batr.org First time post and
                      DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Then what you saying, Sam...is that it's ALL LIES -- what the
                      media
                      > prints and reads off their prepared scripts?
                      >
                      > Buddie
                      >
                      > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, "sam" <mugwump@h...> wrote:
                      > > ....report the news as they see it before
                      > > it is twisted and distorted by their
                      > > editors!!!
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                      > > From: buddiebuddiee
                      > > To: oldright@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 1:30 PM
                      > > Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES
                      http://batr.org
                      > First time post and DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > You are ALL intellectuals here with many Doctor/ed degrees ;)
                      and
                      > > some BSers here...no? ;)
                      > >
                      > > My MAJOR beef is with the MAINSTREAM MEDIA..
                      > >
                      > > What is the MAIN job of a reporter/journalist? Anyone here
                      care
                      > to
                      > > enlighten me?
                      > >
                      > > TIA
                      > >
                      > > Buddie
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      > > ADVERTISEMENT
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
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                      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
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                      > Service.
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      > ADVERTISEMENT
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
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                      >
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                      Service.
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