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nailing no-planes -- 44 clips of WTC crash -- two letters from Gerard Holmgren and a suitable reply -- GH true to long established pattern -- the fingerprint of personailty

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  • Dick Eastman
    From: Gerard Holmgren To: Dick Eastman Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 ... ================ From:
    Message 1 of 3 , Jun 2, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
       
      From: "Gerard Holmgren" <genghis@...>
      To: "Dick Eastman" <olfriend@...>
      Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008
       
      > until you get a brain and stop calling me holmgren i will
      > continue to treat you like a troll.
      >
      >
      which is, what i believe you are.
       
       
      ================
       
      From: <genghis@...>  [Gerard Holmgren]
      Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 5:20 AM
      Subject: RE: Holmgren speaks Fw: The statements of Fireman Stephen Gregory

      stop emailing me you inbred.
      you don't even know who i am,
      so stop talking to me,
      if you want to speak to gerard,
      he has a website, with an email address.
      he actually reads it,
      and will be happy to answer you.
      but i am not gerard.

      if you send me another email i WILL BLOCK YOU
       
      ====================
       
      Reply by Dick Eastman M.S., M.S.,   223 S. 64th Ave.  Yakima, Washington:
       
       
      And by "treat as a troll" I suppose you mean "avoid addressing all of the reasons this particular troll gives as to why no-planer alleged 'video-fakery' and no-real-planes-crashing-at-the-wtc  would have been impossible to pull off.  How could they draw the pictures to fit the real explosion so quickly  -- since they couldn't have known what the explosion would look like in advance -- 45+ cameras all catching the same complex non-linear explosion from all those different angles and distances?"
       
      Personalities are like finger prints, aren't they?
       
      Gerard Holmgren  continues to away run away from Dick Eastman Where did the bully "ghenghis" go?  Apparently writing obscene grafitti loses its appear when we remove the doors from the toilet stall and stand there watching him, knowing who he is.  He simply can't play genghis any more and wants to be left in peace,  its obvious.
       
      Here is the argument he refuses to address because he has concluded that I am a troll and and for that reason and that reason alone he is exempt from having to provide all of you with answers to the points you raise.
       
      There are over 45 video recordings, each from a different angle -- photographing the same explosion -- and how were all of these 45 different camera angles made all with the same explosion, each with a different part of New York City in the Background.  And the explosion and the crash are so well coordinated in every video.  Yet Holmgren and Fetzer and Reynolds hold that all of the videos contain simulations  -- but how did they know what the real explosion would look like in advance to make the simulations of the planes crashing  -- and do it with 45 videos and have them all agree in details of the explosion?
       
      Gerard won't answer because of some failure of my character to be worthy to speak with him  -- EXACTLY LIKE EVERY OTHER DEBATE I HAVE EVER HAD WITH HIM.  I can share letter after letter from Holmgren in which he does exactly this every time I put on the heat in a debate.
       
      You see the Israelis behind this operation (including the dual-citizenship Israelis in the US who planned 9-11 knew that the internet would be all over the attack.. They were familiar with conspiracy theories cropping up after Waco and after Oaklahoma City bombing  -- and so they planned counter measures.  The operatives who were to defend the official version quickly became discredited as more and more facts came out which contradicted the official story.  A new strategy had to be employed.  The opposition new that they could not continue to defend the indefensible untruth forever so they devised the strategy of creating a second 9-11 truth movement -- the no-planers.  These no-planers would, first, posit an alternative theory  "that no planes hit the wtc" which they could be sure that the American public would never accept; and  then, second, make all out vicious attacks on all other investigators, ridiculing their evidence as cruelly and unfairly as possible.  They could be as vicious in their attacks on Griffin, and Jones and, yes, Eastman as they wanted knowing that the viciousness would attach to "the conspiracy theorists", as the "conspiracy theoriests" could be represented as "attacking each other"  and thus turning to bedlam the efforts of intelligent and honest people in possession of the facts to get their information across to their fellow citizens.  The no-planers would insist that the absurd and impossible is truth, that those with the truth were "morons" or "agents" or "crazy"  -- and so the Administration would not have to fight the 9-11 investigators because the infiltrated false-opposition investigators were doing that already as no-planer embedded information saboteurs.    The no planers slash away.  Fetzer has open door for no-planers, but gatekeeps all of the real investigaors and their real evidence that proves the case.
       
      But when a man with the facts who understands the situation comes and would expose every deception of the no-planers   -- the no-planers always run away.  Holmgren has run away many times.  Reynolds has run away.  Haupt and Webfairy will not take on the debates that I have proposed.  And they ban me from every forum  the control.
       
      Now, Gerard -- I have proven the impossibility of the specific no-plane claim, the claim that 45 videos could be faked and all show the same explosion in New York City -- and somehow make sure that no one in New York or New Jersy or the harbor was aiming a camera at the world trade center (so soon after North Tower was hit) that did not also have video fakery in it.
       
      Everyone who has read my arguments yet persists as a no-planer must be either mentally deficient or a knowing and active obstructor of justice in the 9-11 crime.  As I have been observing  Gerard Holmgren, Jim Fetzer, Rosalee Grable, Rick Siegel, Lynn Ertell,Thomas J. Mattingly, Veronica Chapman, Kevin Barrett , Dylan Avery, Ben Noyes, Judy Shelton have all defended the no-plane position consistently despite ample demonstration that it is false.  They continue to slander the real investigators in vicious attacks and they continue to disrupt all community efforts to come together on 9-11.  ANd of course the media will showcase the false-investigators, the false-findings, the failed method and studied stupidity that the no-planers always project.  Ben Noyes was a hardened debunker of the official story  -- but very easiliy he was able to switch to a no-planer after the meeting between Webfairy and Holmgren in Chicago.  Noyes follows the playbook perfectly.
       
      I can go on and on. 
       
      Two things are obvious.  Holmgren cannot tell us how content agreement in crash explosions could have been accomplished for 45 different cameras  filled with "TV fakery" but made available within hours of the crash  and that no one with a real video camera in a city of over 10 million people  managed to capture what no-planers say really happened  -- that South Tower suddenly exploded without a plane actually crashing to make the explosion. Not one camera shows that.  Not one witness says that.
       
       
       
      I can present the truth and win a debate  -- I just did -- the other guy took one look and headed for the exit --  but that does not stop a disinformation machine bent on covering up the crime that is ment to destroy America and its people in a power bid for world domination by international organized crime that has taken hold of governments to further their own interests.
       
      The US has had a police state  -- actually a criminal protection racket run by murderous thugs -- and is wars of aggression against wholly innocent nations and the economy and our constitution are being sabotaged  -- and it all stems from the 9-11 false-flag deception that has bought international crime its hold on this nation through the military, through Homeland Security and the Patriot Act  --  and people like me have assembled the facts proving this crime.  But the no-planers mentioned above have been assigned to disquise themselves as 9-11 investigators and sabotage the movement from within  -- as disinformationists, as gatekeepers, as saboterus of organizational and educational efforts.
       
      Given that the no-planers are exposed for what they are I am asking that the People for once get behind those who have uncovered the real truth, those who have compiled evidence sufficient to statisfy any impartial grand jury or imeachment inquiry that high treason and mass-murder have been committed  -- and that the no-planers (variously motivated) are preventing the execution of justice with their dishonest efforts to hinder efforts to inform the public and effect political remedy.
       
      Now I would like all of you former no-planers to relate how you were fooled by so obvious a deception?  and why you went along with it despite its every argument being refuted every time it was put to a test.
       
      One more thing  -- no-planers are kept in the dark about all of the video recordings of the South Tower crash.  To remedy that I make the following available:

      1.   44 clips of video individual recordings of the the planes crashing into the WTC, each from a viewing the nonlinear complex event from a different angle  -- impossible for "fakery" to produce, much less duplicate in such transforming and complexity and uniqueness  from so many angles   Here is the video recording that I have referred people to many times in the past, only in each case to have it removed by youtube for "violations of agreement" after complaints were filed by parties unknown.  The video appears and disappears.  As soon as I begin referring people to it it is taken down.   Fortunately my Friend Mark Bilk saved it for me the last time it was up   and so here it is for you to download  19 mb  put up for downloading last   44 different video recordings of the planes hitting the South Tower.

      Download the "44" video here:

      http://www.cosmicpenguin.com/911/wtc/44ClipsOfTheTwoPlanesCrashingTheWTC.ThPTduiA5jI.flv

      Download the file to your hard drive, using, e.g., Firefox.

      Open and play the file with:

      VLC
      http://www.videolan.org/

      or

      Mplayer

      http://www.mplayerhq.hu/

       
      These videos have not yet been taken off youtube by the no-planers:
       
      2.  Never before seen Video of WTC 9/11 attack
       
       
       
       
      3.  9/11:  40 Clips of  WTC South Tower
       
       
       
       
       
      2.  The Stabilized Video of the South Tower Crash  (This one shows it all --  when a plane travels at the speed of a bullet fired from a handgun with the momentum equal to that of  168 city buses of 8 tons each crashing one after another at 50 mph hitting a building which viewed from outside at night is shown to be largely picture-window glass revealing the lighted offices within.)
       
       
      view:
       
       
       
       
      4.  FLIGHT 175 crashes into South Tower
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <genghis@...>
      Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 4:12 AM
      Subject: RE: The statements of Fireman Stephen Gregory


      until you get a brain and stop calling me holmgren i will
      continue to treat you like a troll.

      which is, what i believe you are.

      ---- Original Message ----
      From:
      olfriend@...
      To: genghis@..., rasgasaias@...,
      pomeroo@..., Jsleaphart@...
      Subject: The statements of Fireman Stephen Gregory
      Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 03:01:30 -0700

      >Investigator
      face=Arial size=2>Jsleaphart@... writes:  
      >
      >I think the NO PLANE camp has, in Stephen
      Gregory , about as good a
      >witness as there could possibly be.  He is
      believable, responsible
      >and had a duty to be observant.  In fact if
      you were going to design
      >a witness for support of whatever your position
      is on this matter, I
      >really don't think you could design a witness better
      than Stephen
      >Gregory is.
      >
      >And here is what he actually
      said, as recorded in his official
      >statement:
      >
      >Stephen
      Gregory :
      >
      >"At first I didn't realize it was a plane. I thought
      it was like the
      >roar of fire, like something had just incinerated, like a
      gas tank or
      >an oil tank. It sounded like a tremendous roar and then you
      heard
      >boom and then there was a big fire, a lot of fire, a big fireball.
      >I never actually saw a plane hit the building.  I never saw that.
      >I saw it on television, but I never saw it while I was
      standing
      >there."
      >
      >
      >The fine man you bring to our
      attention clearly states that his first
      >knowledge of the event was a
      roar, a sound -- not a sight  -- meaning
      >he heard the event before
      he saw it  -- but sound as you well know
      >travels slower than light
      -- so if he didn't look until after he
      >heard the roar he was too late to
      see the plane  -- but he did see
      >the progress of the explosion from
      the three or four seconds it took
      >for the sound to reach him 
      --  my Dad told me how to estimate the
      >distance of lightning by the
      length of interval between flash and
      >thunder  -- but if you first
      hear the thunder then you missed the
      >flash.  We can be standing
      there and not see something because we are
      >not paying attention or we are
      distracted by something -- he does not
      >say he was looking at the Towers
      -- he came in late  --he say the
      >explosion, but -- we know from what
      he says -- not the initiation of
      >the explosion.
      >
      >Are we
      together on this?
      >
      >Do you have a counter argument, Gerard
      Holmgren?
      >
      >What about your Morgan Reynolds?
      >
      >Or you,
      Jim Fetzer, Kevin Bartlett, or Rasqas Saias, do you reach a
      >different
      conclusion about this witness's statement?
      >
      >Dick
      Eastman
      >Yakima, Washington
      >
      >
      >  From:
      href="mailto:Jsleaphart@...">Jsleaphart@...
      >
      >
      >
      >  Stephen Gregory, Deputy Fire
      Commissioner, was stationed on West
      >Streeet between Liberty and Albany
      Streets, which, for those of you
      >not familiar with the Ground Zero area,
      you can see that WTC 2
      >bordered on Liberty, very close to West Street,
      with Albany being the
      >next street south of
      Liberty:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >  Now that we know where
      Asst. Fire Commissioner Stephen Gregory was,
      >we can next, each in our own
      way, decide what weight we should give
      >to his testimony and whether and
      to what extent to we consider him a
      >reliable
      witness.
      >
      >  I think the NO PLANE camp has, in Stephen Gregory
      , about as good a
      >witness as there could possibly be.  He is
      believable, responsible
      >and had a duty to be observant.  In fact if
      you were going to design
      >a witness for support of whatever your position
      is on this matter, I
      >really don't think you could design a witness better
      than Stephen
      >Gregory is.
      >
      >  And here is what he
      actually said, as recorded in his official
      >statement:
      >
      >  Stephen Gregory :
      >
      >  "At first I didn't realize it was a plane. I thought it
      was like
      >the roar of fire, like something had just incinerated, like a
      gas
      >tank or an oil tank. It sounded like a tremendous roar and then
      you
      >heard boom and then there was a big fire, a lot of fire, a
      big
      >fireball.
      >  I never actually saw a plane hit the
      building.  I never saw that.
      >  I saw it on television, but I
      never saw it while I was standing
      >there."
      >
      >  It is
      said that there are 100,000 witnesses, but that is by and
      >large the
      effect of the psy op, of mass media impression.  As I said
      >earlier,
      people who ferverently believe there were 1000s of witnesses
      >are doing no
      more than expressing the result of the psy op
      >perpetrated against
      them.
      >
      >  Can the PLANE SPOTTER camp provide an actual, named
      witness who is
      >as good as Stephen Gregory is?
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >





      --
      No virus found in this incoming message.
      Checked by AVG.
      Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1476 - Release Date: 5/31/2008 12:25 PM



      ---- Original Message ----
      From:
      olfriend@...
      To: genghis@..., rasgasaias@...,
      pomeroo@..., Jsleaphart@...
      Subject: The statements of Fireman Stephen Gregory
      Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 03:01:30 -0700

      >Investigator
      face=Arial size=2>Jsleaphart@... writes:  
      >
      >I think the NO PLANE camp has, in Stephen
      Gregory , about as good a
      >witness as there could possibly be.  He is
      believable, responsible
      >and had a duty to be observant.  In fact if
      you were going to design
      >a witness for support of whatever your position
      is on this matter, I
      >really don't think you could design a witness better
      than Stephen
      >Gregory is.
      >
      >And here is what he actually
      said, as recorded in his official
      >statement:
      >
      >Stephen
      Gregory :
      >
      >"At first I didn't realize it was a plane. I thought
      it was like the
      >roar of fire, like something had just incinerated, like a
      gas tank or
      >an oil tank. It sounded like a tremendous roar and then you
      heard
      >boom and then there was a big fire, a lot of fire, a big fireball.
      >I never actually saw a plane hit the building.  I never saw that.
      >I saw it on television, but I never saw it while I was
      standing
      >there."
      >
      >
      >The fine man you bring to our
      attention clearly states that his first
      >knowledge of the event was a
      roar, a sound -- not a sight  -- meaning
      >he heard the event before
      he saw it  -- but sound as you well know
      >travels slower than light
      -- so if he didn't look until after he
      >heard the roar he was too late to
      see the plane  -- but he did see
      >the progress of the explosion from
      the three or four seconds it took
      >for the sound to reach him 
      --  my Dad told me how to estimate the
      >distance of lightning by the
      length of interval between flash and
      >thunder  -- but if you first
      hear the thunder then you missed the
      >flash.  We can be standing
      there and not see something because we are
      >not paying attention or we are
      distracted by something -- he does not
      >say he was looking at the Towers
      -- he came in late  --he say the
      >explosion, but -- we know from what
      he says -- not the initiation of
      >the explosion.
      >
      >Are we
      together on this?
      >
      >Do you have a counter argument, Gerard
      Holmgren?
      >
      >What about your Morgan Reynolds?
      >
      >Or you,
      Jim Fetzer, Kevin Bartlett, or Rasqas Saias, do you reach a
      >different
      conclusion about this witness's statement?
      >
      >Dick
      Eastman
      >Yakima, Washington
      >
      >
      >  From:
      href="mailto:Jsleaphart@...">Jsleaphart@...
      >
      >
      >
      >  Stephen Gregory, Deputy Fire
      Commissioner, was stationed on West
      >Streeet between Liberty and Albany
      Streets, which, for those of you
      >not familiar with the Ground Zero area,
      you can see that WTC 2
      >bordered on Liberty, very close to West Street,
      with Albany being the
      >next street south of
      Liberty:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >  Now that we know where
      Asst. Fire Commissioner Stephen Gregory was,
      >we can next, each in our own
      way, decide what weight we should give
      >to his testimony and whether and
      to what extent to we consider him a
      >reliable
      witness.
      >
      >  I think the NO PLANE camp has, in Stephen Gregory
      , about as good a
      >witness as there could possibly be.  He is
      believable, responsible
      >and had a duty to be observant.  In fact if
      you were going to design
      >a witness for support of whatever your position
      is on this matter, I
      >really don't think you could design a witness better
      than Stephen
      >Gregory is.
      >
      >  And here is what he
      actually said, as recorded in his official
      >statement:
      >
      >  Stephen Gregory :
      >
      >  "At first I didn't realize it was a plane. I thought it
      was like
      >the roar of fire, like something had just incinerated, like a
      gas
      >tank or an oil tank. It sounded like a tremendous roar and then
      you
      >heard boom and then there was a big fire, a lot of fire, a
      big
      >fireball.
      >  I never actually saw a plane hit the
      building.  I never saw that.
      >  I saw it on television, but I
      never saw it while I was standing
      >there."
      >
      >  It is
      said that there are 100,000 witnesses, but that is by and
      >large the
      effect of the psy op, of mass media impression.  As I said
      >earlier,
      people who ferverently believe there were 1000s of witnesses
      >are doing no
      more than expressing the result of the psy op
      >perpetrated against
      them.
      >
      >  Can the PLANE SPOTTER camp provide an actual, named
      witness who is
      >as good as Stephen Gregory is?
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >





      --
      No virus found in this incoming message.
      Checked by AVG.
      Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1476 - Release Date: 5/31/2008 12:25 PM

    • Dick Eastman
      From: Gerard Holmgren To: Dick Eastman Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 ... ================ From:
      Message 2 of 3 , Jun 2, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
         
        From: "Gerard Holmgren" <genghis@...>
        To: "Dick Eastman" <olfriend@...>
        Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008
         
        > until you get a brain and stop calling me holmgren i will
        > continue to treat you like a troll.
        >
        >
        which is, what i believe you are.
         
         
        ================
         
        From: <genghis@...>  [Gerard Holmgren]
        Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 5:20 AM
        Subject: RE: Holmgren speaks Fw: The statements of Fireman Stephen Gregory

        stop emailing me you inbred.
        you don't even know who i am,
        so stop talking to me,
        if you want to speak to gerard,
        he has a website, with an email address.
        he actually reads it,
        and will be happy to answer you.
        but i am not gerard.

        if you send me another email i WILL BLOCK YOU
         
        ====================
         
        Reply by Dick Eastman M.S., M.S.,   223 S. 64th Ave.  Yakima, Washington:
         
         
        And by "treat as a troll" I suppose you mean "avoid addressing all of the reasons this particular troll gives as to why no-planer alleged 'video-fakery' and no-real-planes-crashing-at-the-wtc  would have been impossible to pull off.  How could they draw the pictures to fit the real explosion so quickly  -- since they couldn't have known what the explosion would look like in advance -- 45+ cameras all catching the same complex non-linear explosion from all those different angles and distances?"
         
        Personalities are like finger prints, aren't they?
         
        Gerard Holmgren  continues to away run away from Dick Eastman Where did the bully "ghenghis" go?  Apparently writing obscene grafitti loses its appear when we remove the doors from the toilet stall and stand there watching him, knowing who he is.  He simply can't play genghis any more and wants to be left in peace,  its obvious.
         
        Here is the argument he refuses to address because he has concluded that I am a troll and and for that reason and that reason alone he is exempt from having to provide all of you with answers to the points you raise.
         
        There are over 45 video recordings, each from a different angle -- photographing the same explosion -- and how were all of these 45 different camera angles made all with the same explosion, each with a different part of New York City in the Background.  And the explosion and the crash are so well coordinated in every video.  Yet Holmgren and Fetzer and Reynolds hold that all of the videos contain simulations  -- but how did they know what the real explosion would look like in advance to make the simulations of the planes crashing  -- and do it with 45 videos and have them all agree in details of the explosion?
         
        Gerard won't answer because of some failure of my character to be worthy to speak with him  -- EXACTLY LIKE EVERY OTHER DEBATE I HAVE EVER HAD WITH HIM.  I can share letter after letter from Holmgren in which he does exactly this every time I put on the heat in a debate.
         
        You see the Israelis behind this operation (including the dual-citizenship Israelis in the US who planned 9-11 knew that the internet would be all over the attack.. They were familiar with conspiracy theories cropping up after Waco and after Oaklahoma City bombing  -- and so they planned counter measures.  The operatives who were to defend the official version quickly became discredited as more and more facts came out which contradicted the official story.  A new strategy had to be employed.  The opposition new that they could not continue to defend the indefensible untruth forever so they devised the strategy of creating a second 9-11 truth movement -- the no-planers.  These no-planers would, first, posit an alternative theory  "that no planes hit the wtc" which they could be sure that the American public would never accept; and  then, second, make all out vicious attacks on all other investigators, ridiculing their evidence as cruelly and unfairly as possible.  They could be as vicious in their attacks on Griffin, and Jones and, yes, Eastman as they wanted knowing that the viciousness would attach to "the conspiracy theorists", as the "conspiracy theoriests" could be represented as "attacking each other"  and thus turning to bedlam the efforts of intelligent and honest people in possession of the facts to get their information across to their fellow citizens.  The no-planers would insist that the absurd and impossible is truth, that those with the truth were "morons" or "agents" or "crazy"  -- and so the Administration would not have to fight the 9-11 investigators because the infiltrated false-opposition investigators were doing that already as no-planer embedded information saboteurs.    The no planers slash away.  Fetzer has open door for no-planers, but gatekeeps all of the real investigaors and their real evidence that proves the case.
         
        But when a man with the facts who understands the situation comes and would expose every deception of the no-planers   -- the no-planers always run away.  Holmgren has run away many times.  Reynolds has run away.  Haupt and Webfairy will not take on the debates that I have proposed.  And they ban me from every forum  the control.
         
        Now, Gerard -- I have proven the impossibility of the specific no-plane claim, the claim that 45 videos could be faked and all show the same explosion in New York City -- and somehow make sure that no one in New York or New Jersy or the harbor was aiming a camera at the world trade center (so soon after North Tower was hit) that did not also have video fakery in it.
         
        Everyone who has read my arguments yet persists as a no-planer must be either mentally deficient or a knowing and active obstructor of justice in the 9-11 crime.  As I have been observing  Gerard Holmgren, Jim Fetzer, Rosalee Grable, Rick Siegel, Lynn Ertell,Thomas J. Mattingly, Veronica Chapman, Kevin Barrett , Dylan Avery, Ben Noyes, Judy Shelton have all defended the no-plane position consistently despite ample demonstration that it is false.  They continue to slander the real investigators in vicious attacks and they continue to disrupt all community efforts to come together on 9-11.  ANd of course the media will showcase the false-investigators, the false-findings, the failed method and studied stupidity that the no-planers always project.  Ben Noyes was a hardened debunker of the official story  -- but very easiliy he was able to switch to a no-planer after the meeting between Webfairy and Holmgren in Chicago.  Noyes follows the playbook perfectly.
         
        I can go on and on. 
         
        Two things are obvious.  Holmgren cannot tell us how content agreement in crash explosions could have been accomplished for 45 different cameras  filled with "TV fakery" but made available within hours of the crash  and that no one with a real video camera in a city of over 10 million people  managed to capture what no-planers say really happened  -- that South Tower suddenly exploded without a plane actually crashing to make the explosion. Not one camera shows that.  Not one witness says that.
         
         
         
        I can present the truth and win a debate  -- I just did -- the other guy took one look and headed for the exit --  but that does not stop a disinformation machine bent on covering up the crime that is ment to destroy America and its people in a power bid for world domination by international organized crime that has taken hold of governments to further their own interests.
         
        The US has had a police state  -- actually a criminal protection racket run by murderous thugs -- and is wars of aggression against wholly innocent nations and the economy and our constitution are being sabotaged  -- and it all stems from the 9-11 false-flag deception that has bought international crime its hold on this nation through the military, through Homeland Security and the Patriot Act  --  and people like me have assembled the facts proving this crime.  But the no-planers mentioned above have been assigned to disquise themselves as 9-11 investigators and sabotage the movement from within  -- as disinformationists, as gatekeepers, as saboterus of organizational and educational efforts.
         
        Given that the no-planers are exposed for what they are I am asking that the People for once get behind those who have uncovered the real truth, those who have compiled evidence sufficient to statisfy any impartial grand jury or imeachment inquiry that high treason and mass-murder have been committed  -- and that the no-planers (variously motivated) are preventing the execution of justice with their dishonest efforts to hinder efforts to inform the public and effect political remedy.
         
        Now I would like all of you former no-planers to relate how you were fooled by so obvious a deception?  and why you went along with it despite its every argument being refuted every time it was put to a test.
         
        One more thing  -- no-planers are kept in the dark about all of the video recordings of the South Tower crash.  To remedy that I make the following available:

        1.   44 clips of video individual recordings of the the planes crashing into the WTC, each from a viewing the nonlinear complex event from a different angle  -- impossible for "fakery" to produce, much less duplicate in such transforming and complexity and uniqueness  from so many angles   Here is the video recording that I have referred people to many times in the past, only in each case to have it removed by youtube for "violations of agreement" after complaints were filed by parties unknown.  The video appears and disappears.  As soon as I begin referring people to it it is taken down.   Fortunately my Friend Mark Bilk saved it for me the last time it was up   and so here it is for you to download  19 mb  put up for downloading last   44 different video recordings of the planes hitting the South Tower.

        Download the "44" video here:

        http://www.cosmicpenguin.com/911/wtc/44ClipsOfTheTwoPlanesCrashingTheWTC.ThPTduiA5jI.flv

        Download the file to your hard drive, using, e.g., Firefox.

        Open and play the file with:

        VLC
        http://www.videolan.org/

        or

        Mplayer

        http://www.mplayerhq.hu/

         
        These videos have not yet been taken off youtube by the no-planers:
         
        2.  Never before seen Video of WTC 9/11 attack
         
         
         
         
        3.  9/11:  40 Clips of  WTC South Tower
         
         
         
         
         
        2.  The Stabilized Video of the South Tower Crash  (This one shows it all --  when a plane travels at the speed of a bullet fired from a handgun with the momentum equal to that of  168 city buses of 8 tons each crashing one after another at 50 mph hitting a building which viewed from outside at night is shown to be largely picture-window glass revealing the lighted offices within.)
         
         
        view:
         
         
         
         
        4.  FLIGHT 175 crashes into South Tower
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <genghis@...>
        Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 4:12 AM
        Subject: RE: The statements of Fireman Stephen Gregory


        until you get a brain and stop calling me holmgren i will
        continue to treat you like a troll.

        which is, what i believe you are.

        ---- Original Message ----
        From:
        olfriend@...
        To: genghis@..., rasgasaias@...,
        pomeroo@..., Jsleaphart@...
        Subject: The statements of Fireman Stephen Gregory
        Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 03:01:30 -0700

        >Investigator
        face=Arial size=2>Jsleaphart@... writes:  
        >
        >I think the NO PLANE camp has, in Stephen
        Gregory , about as good a
        >witness as there could possibly be.  He is
        believable, responsible
        >and had a duty to be observant.  In fact if
        you were going to design
        >a witness for support of whatever your position
        is on this matter, I
        >really don't think you could design a witness better
        than Stephen
        >Gregory is.
        >
        >And here is what he actually
        said, as recorded in his official
        >statement:
        >
        >Stephen
        Gregory :
        >
        >"At first I didn't realize it was a plane. I thought
        it was like the
        >roar of fire, like something had just incinerated, like a
        gas tank or
        >an oil tank. It sounded like a tremendous roar and then you
        heard
        >boom and then there was a big fire, a lot of fire, a big fireball.
        >I never actually saw a plane hit the building.  I never saw that.
        >I saw it on television, but I never saw it while I was
        standing
        >there."
        >
        >
        >The fine man you bring to our
        attention clearly states that his first
        >knowledge of the event was a
        roar, a sound -- not a sight  -- meaning
        >he heard the event before
        he saw it  -- but sound as you well know
        >travels slower than light
        -- so if he didn't look until after he
        >heard the roar he was too late to
        see the plane  -- but he did see
        >the progress of the explosion from
        the three or four seconds it took
        >for the sound to reach him 
        --  my Dad told me how to estimate the
        >distance of lightning by the
        length of interval between flash and
        >thunder  -- but if you first
        hear the thunder then you missed the
        >flash.  We can be standing
        there and not see something because we are
        >not paying attention or we are
        distracted by something -- he does not
        >say he was looking at the Towers
        -- he came in late  --he say the
        >explosion, but -- we know from what
        he says -- not the initiation of
        >the explosion.
        >
        >Are we
        together on this?
        >
        >Do you have a counter argument, Gerard
        Holmgren?
        >
        >What about your Morgan Reynolds?
        >
        >Or you,
        Jim Fetzer, Kevin Bartlett, or Rasqas Saias, do you reach a
        >different
        conclusion about this witness's statement?
        >
        >Dick
        Eastman
        >Yakima, Washington
        >
        >
        >  From:
        href="mailto:Jsleaphart@...">Jsleaphart@...
        >
        >
        >
        >  Stephen Gregory, Deputy Fire
        Commissioner, was stationed on West
        >Streeet between Liberty and Albany
        Streets, which, for those of you
        >not familiar with the Ground Zero area,
        you can see that WTC 2
        >bordered on Liberty, very close to West Street,
        with Albany being the
        >next street south of
        Liberty:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >  Now that we know where
        Asst. Fire Commissioner Stephen Gregory was,
        >we can next, each in our own
        way, decide what weight we should give
        >to his testimony and whether and
        to what extent to we consider him a
        >reliable
        witness.
        >
        >  I think the NO PLANE camp has, in Stephen Gregory
        , about as good a
        >witness as there could possibly be.  He is
        believable, responsible
        >and had a duty to be observant.  In fact if
        you were going to design
        >a witness for support of whatever your position
        is on this matter, I
        >really don't think you could design a witness better
        than Stephen
        >Gregory is.
        >
        >  And here is what he
        actually said, as recorded in his official
        >statement:
        >
        >  Stephen Gregory :
        >
        >  "At first I didn't realize it was a plane. I thought it
        was like
        >the roar of fire, like something had just incinerated, like a
        gas
        >tank or an oil tank. It sounded like a tremendous roar and then
        you
        >heard boom and then there was a big fire, a lot of fire, a
        big
        >fireball.
        >  I never actually saw a plane hit the
        building.  I never saw that.
        >  I saw it on television, but I
        never saw it while I was standing
        >there."
        >
        >  It is
        said that there are 100,000 witnesses, but that is by and
        >large the
        effect of the psy op, of mass media impression.  As I said
        >earlier,
        people who ferverently believe there were 1000s of witnesses
        >are doing no
        more than expressing the result of the psy op
        >perpetrated against
        them.
        >
        >  Can the PLANE SPOTTER camp provide an actual, named
        witness who is
        >as good as Stephen Gregory is?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >





        --
        No virus found in this incoming message.
        Checked by AVG.
        Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1476 - Release Date: 5/31/2008 12:25 PM



        ---- Original Message ----
        From:
        olfriend@...
        To: genghis@..., rasgasaias@...,
        pomeroo@..., Jsleaphart@...
        Subject: The statements of Fireman Stephen Gregory
        Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 03:01:30 -0700

        >Investigator
        face=Arial size=2>Jsleaphart@... writes:  
        >
        >I think the NO PLANE camp has, in Stephen
        Gregory , about as good a
        >witness as there could possibly be.  He is
        believable, responsible
        >and had a duty to be observant.  In fact if
        you were going to design
        >a witness for support of whatever your position
        is on this matter, I
        >really don't think you could design a witness better
        than Stephen
        >Gregory is.
        >
        >And here is what he actually
        said, as recorded in his official
        >statement:
        >
        >Stephen
        Gregory :
        >
        >"At first I didn't realize it was a plane. I thought
        it was like the
        >roar of fire, like something had just incinerated, like a
        gas tank or
        >an oil tank. It sounded like a tremendous roar and then you
        heard
        >boom and then there was a big fire, a lot of fire, a big fireball.
        >I never actually saw a plane hit the building.  I never saw that.
        >I saw it on television, but I never saw it while I was
        standing
        >there."
        >
        >
        >The fine man you bring to our
        attention clearly states that his first
        >knowledge of the event was a
        roar, a sound -- not a sight  -- meaning
        >he heard the event before
        he saw it  -- but sound as you well know
        >travels slower than light
        -- so if he didn't look until after he
        >heard the roar he was too late to
        see the plane  -- but he did see
        >the progress of the explosion from
        the three or four seconds it took
        >for the sound to reach him 
        --  my Dad told me how to estimate the
        >distance of lightning by the
        length of interval between flash and
        >thunder  -- but if you first
        hear the thunder then you missed the
        >flash.  We can be standing
        there and not see something because we are
        >not paying attention or we are
        distracted by something -- he does not
        >say he was looking at the Towers
        -- he came in late  --he say the
        >explosion, but -- we know from what
        he says -- not the initiation of
        >the explosion.
        >
        >Are we
        together on this?
        >
        >Do you have a counter argument, Gerard
        Holmgren?
        >
        >What about your Morgan Reynolds?
        >
        >Or you,
        Jim Fetzer, Kevin Bartlett, or Rasqas Saias, do you reach a
        >different
        conclusion about this witness's statement?
        >
        >Dick
        Eastman
        >Yakima, Washington
        >
        >
        >  From:
        href="mailto:Jsleaphart@...">Jsleaphart@...
        >
        >
        >
        >  Stephen Gregory, Deputy Fire
        Commissioner, was stationed on West
        >Streeet between Liberty and Albany
        Streets, which, for those of you
        >not familiar with the Ground Zero area,
        you can see that WTC 2
        >bordered on Liberty, very close to West Street,
        with Albany being the
        >next street south of
        Liberty:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >  Now that we know where
        Asst. Fire Commissioner Stephen Gregory was,
        >we can next, each in our own
        way, decide what weight we should give
        >to his testimony and whether and
        to what extent to we consider him a
        >reliable
        witness.
        >
        >  I think the NO PLANE camp has, in Stephen Gregory
        , about as good a
        >witness as there could possibly be.  He is
        believable, responsible
        >and had a duty to be observant.  In fact if
        you were going to design
        >a witness for support of whatever your position
        is on this matter, I
        >really don't think you could design a witness better
        than Stephen
        >Gregory is.
        >
        >  And here is what he
        actually said, as recorded in his official
        >statement:
        >
        >  Stephen Gregory :
        >
        >  "At first I didn't realize it was a plane. I thought it
        was like
        >the roar of fire, like something had just incinerated, like a
        gas
        >tank or an oil tank. It sounded like a tremendous roar and then
        you
        >heard boom and then there was a big fire, a lot of fire, a
        big
        >fireball.
        >  I never actually saw a plane hit the
        building.  I never saw that.
        >  I saw it on television, but I
        never saw it while I was standing
        >there."
        >
        >  It is
        said that there are 100,000 witnesses, but that is by and
        >large the
        effect of the psy op, of mass media impression.  As I said
        >earlier,
        people who ferverently believe there were 1000s of witnesses
        >are doing no
        more than expressing the result of the psy op
        >perpetrated against
        them.
        >
        >  Can the PLANE SPOTTER camp provide an actual, named
        witness who is
        >as good as Stephen Gregory is?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >





        --
        No virus found in this incoming message.
        Checked by AVG.
        Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1476 - Release Date: 5/31/2008 12:25 PM

      • Dick Eastman
        They really have won. You just proved that. The beams on the building were pushed inward by crash. Examin the holes made. You don t know what to believe any
        Message 3 of 3 , Jun 2, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          They really have won.  You just proved that.
           
          The beams on the building were pushed inward by crash.  Examin the holes made.
           
          You don't know what to believe any more and I don't know anyone who knows what to believe either.  I have failed completely.
           
          Dick
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: BryanD
          Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 8:22 AM
          Subject: Re: nailing no-planes -- 44 clips of WTC crash -- two letters from Gerard Holmgren and a suitable reply -- GH true to long established pattern -- the fingerprint of personailty

          Could it be that 45+ cameras and witnesses were all catching the same hologram?  I have heard several retired govt insiders talk about how it all was a hologram.  Real explosions did cut out the holes that resembled an aircraft.  And an engine (that didn't match any of the aircraft) was deliberately shot out of the tower.  Our black ops technology is so far advanced now that it all is very possible.  There are supposedly at least 8 countries that have been cloning since the 30's and have figured out that everything is made out of energy or light at various frequencies including our bodies.  I believe the Bible even talks about these soulless people in the end days that have been cloned.  There are supposedly clones in society and at top levels of govt now.  I don't know what to believe any more.  Fact is stranger than fiction these days.  I just know one thing for sure and that's, that 9-11 was an inside job and the culprits need to be brought to justice to put it mildly.
           
                      BryanD
          ***************************************
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 10:08 AM
          Subject: nailing no-planes -- 44 clips of WTC crash -- two letters from Gerard Holmgren and a suitable reply -- GH true to long established pattern -- the fingerprint of personailty

           
          From: "Gerard Holmgren" <genghis@...>
          To: "Dick Eastman" <olfriend@...>
          Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008
           
          > until you get a brain and stop calling me holmgren i will
          > continue to treat you like a troll.
          >
          > which is, what i believe you are.
           
           
          ================
           
          From: <genghis@...>  [Gerard Holmgren]
          Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 5:20 AM
          Subject: RE: Holmgren speaks Fw: The statements of Fireman Stephen Gregory

          stop emailing me you inbred.
          you don't even know who i am,
          so stop talking to me,
          if you want to speak to gerard,
          he has a website, with an email address.
          he actually reads it,
          and will be happy to answer you.
          but i am not gerard.

          if you send me another email i WILL BLOCK YOU
           
          ====================
           
          Reply by Dick Eastman M.S., M.S.,   223 S. 64th Ave.  Yakima, Washington:
           
           
          And by "treat as a troll" I suppose you mean "avoid addressing all of the reasons this particular troll gives as to why no-planer alleged 'video-fakery' and no-real-planes-crashing-at-the-wtc  would have been impossible to pull off.  How could they draw the pictures to fit the real explosion so quickly  -- since they couldn't have known what the explosion would look like in advance -- 45+ cameras all catching the same complex non-linear explosion from all those different angles and distances?"
           
          Personalities are like finger prints, aren't they?
           
          Gerard Holmgren  continues to away run away from Dick Eastman Where did the bully "ghenghis" go?  Apparently writing obscene grafitti loses its appear when we remove the doors from the toilet stall and stand there watching him, knowing who he is.  He simply can't play genghis any more and wants to be left in peace,  its obvious.
           
          Here is the argument he refuses to address because he has concluded that I am a troll and and for that reason and that reason alone he is exempt from having to provide all of you with answers to the points you raise.
           
          There are over 45 video recordings, each from a different angle -- photographing the same explosion -- and how were all of these 45 different camera angles made all with the same explosion, each with a different part of New York City in the Background.  And the explosion and the crash are so well coordinated in every video.  Yet Holmgren and Fetzer and Reynolds hold that all of the videos contain simulations  -- but how did they know what the real explosion would look like in advance to make the simulations of the planes crashing  -- and do it with 45 videos and have them all agree in details of the explosion?
           
          Gerard won't answer because of some failure of my character to be worthy to speak with him  -- EXACTLY LIKE EVERY OTHER DEBATE I HAVE EVER HAD WITH HIM.  I can share letter after letter from Holmgren in which he does exactly this every time I put on the heat in a debate.
           
          You see the Israelis behind this operation (including the dual-citizenship Israelis in the US who planned 9-11 knew that the internet would be all over the attack.. They were familiar with conspiracy theories cropping up after Waco and after Oaklahoma City bombing  -- and so they planned counter measures.  The operatives who were to defend the official version quickly became discredited as more and more facts came out which contradicted the official story.  A new strategy had to be employed.  The opposition new that they could not continue to defend the indefensible untruth forever so they devised the strategy of creating a second 9-11 truth movement -- the no-planers.  These no-planers would, first, posit an alternative theory  "that no planes hit the wtc" which they could be sure that the American public would never accept; and  then, second, make all out vicious attacks on all other investigators, ridiculing their evidence as cruelly and unfairly as possible.  They could be as vicious in their attacks on Griffin, and Jones and, yes, Eastman as they wanted knowing that the viciousness would attach to "the conspiracy theorists", as the "conspiracy theoriests" could be represented as "attacking each other"  and thus turning to bedlam the efforts of intelligent and honest people in possession of the facts to get their information across to their fellow citizens.  The no-planers would insist that the absurd and impossible is truth, that those with the truth were "morons" or "agents" or "crazy"  -- and so the Administration would not have to fight the 9-11 investigators because the infiltrated false-opposition investigators were doing that already as no-planer embedded information saboteurs.    The no planers slash away.  Fetzer has open door for no-planers, but gatekeeps all of the real investigaors and their real evidence that proves the case.
           
          But when a man with the facts who understands the situation comes and would expose every deception of the no-planers   -- the no-planers always run away.  Holmgren has run away many times.  Reynolds has run away.  Haupt and Webfairy will not take on the debates that I have proposed.  And they ban me from every forum  the control.
           
          Now, Gerard -- I have proven the impossibility of the specific no-plane claim, the claim that 45 videos could be faked and all show the same explosion in New York City -- and somehow make sure that no one in New York or New Jersy or the harbor was aiming a camera at the world trade center (so soon after North Tower was hit) that did not also have video fakery in it.
           
          Everyone who has read my arguments yet persists as a no-planer must be either mentally deficient or a knowing and active obstructor of justice in the 9-11 crime.  As I have been observing  Gerard Holmgren, Jim Fetzer, Rosalee Grable, Rick Siegel, Lynn Ertell,Thomas J. Mattingly, Veronica Chapman, Kevin Barrett , Dylan Avery, Ben Noyes, Judy Shelton have all defended the no-plane position consistently despite ample demonstration that it is false.  They continue to slander the real investigators in vicious attacks and they continue to disrupt all community efforts to come together on 9-11.  ANd of course the media will showcase the false-investigators, the false-findings, the failed method and studied stupidity that the no-planers always project.  Ben Noyes was a hardened debunker of the official story  -- but very easiliy he was able to switch to a no-planer after the meeting between Webfairy and Holmgren in Chicago.  Noyes follows the playbook perfectly.
           
          I can go on and on. 
           
          Two things are obvious.  Holmgren cannot tell us how content agreement in crash explosions could have been accomplished for 45 different cameras  filled with "TV fakery" but made available within hours of the crash  and that no one with a real video camera in a city of over 10 million people  managed to capture what no-planers say really happened  -- that South Tower suddenly exploded without a plane actually crashing to make the explosion. Not one camera shows that.  Not one witness says that.
           
           
           
          I can present the truth and win a debate  -- I just did -- the other guy took one look and headed for the exit --  but that does not stop a disinformation machine bent on covering up the crime that is ment to destroy America and its people in a power bid for world domination by international organized crime that has taken hold of governments to further their own interests.
           
          The US has had a police state  -- actually a criminal protection racket run by murderous thugs -- and is wars of aggression against wholly innocent nations and the economy and our constitution are being sabotaged  -- and it all stems from the 9-11 false-flag deception that has bought international crime its hold on this nation through the military, through Homeland Security and the Patriot Act  --  and people like me have assembled the facts proving this crime.  But the no-planers mentioned above have been assigned to disquise themselves as 9-11 investigators and sabotage the movement from within  -- as disinformationists, as gatekeepers, as saboterus of organizational and educational efforts.
           
          Given that the no-planers are exposed for what they are I am asking that the People for once get behind those who have uncovered the real truth, those who have compiled evidence sufficient to statisfy any impartial grand jury or imeachment inquiry that high treason and mass-murder have been committed  -- and that the no-planers (variously motivated) are preventing the execution of justice with their dishonest efforts to hinder efforts to inform the public and effect political remedy.
           
          Now I would like all of you former no-planers to relate how you were fooled by so obvious a deception?  and why you went along with it despite its every argument being refuted every time it was put to a test.
           
          One more thing  -- no-planers are kept in the dark about all of the video recordings of the South Tower crash.  To remedy that I make the following available:

          1.   44 clips of video individual recordings of the the planes crashing into the WTC, each from a viewing the nonlinear complex event from a different angle  -- impossible for "fakery" to produce, much less duplicate in such transforming and complexity and uniqueness  from so many angles   Here is the video recording that I have referred people to many times in the past, only in each case to have it removed by youtube for "violations of agreement" after complaints were filed by parties unknown.  The video appears and disappears.  As soon as I begin referring people to it it is taken down.   Fortunately my Friend Mark Bilk saved it for me the last time it was up   and so here it is for you to download  19 mb  put up for downloading last   44 different video recordings of the planes hitting the South Tower.

          Download the "44" video here:

          http://www.cosmicpenguin.com/911/wtc/44ClipsOfTheTwoPlanesCrashingTheWTC.ThPTduiA5jI.flv

          Download the file to your hard drive, using, e.g., Firefox.

          Open and play the file with:

          VLC
          http://www.videolan.org/

          or

          Mplayer

          http://www.mplayerhq.hu/

           
          These videos have not yet been taken off youtube by the no-planers:
           
          2.  Never before seen Video of WTC 9/11 attack
           
           
           
           
          3.  9/11:  40 Clips of  WTC South Tower
           
           
           
           
           
          2.  The Stabilized Video of the South Tower Crash  (This one shows it all --  when a plane travels at the speed of a bullet fired from a handgun with the momentum equal to that of  168 city buses of 8 tons each crashing one after another at 50 mph hitting a building which viewed from outside at night is shown to be largely picture-window glass revealing the lighted offices within.)
           
           
          view:
           
           
           
           
          4.  FLIGHT 175 crashes into South Tower
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <genghis@...>
          Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 4:12 AM
          Subject: RE: The statements of Fireman Stephen Gregory


          until you get a brain and stop calling me holmgren i will
          continue to treat you like a troll.

          which is, what i believe you are.

          ---- Original Message ----
          From:
          olfriend@...
          To: genghis@..., rasgasaias@...,
          pomeroo@..., Jsleaphart@...
          Subject: The statements of Fireman Stephen Gregory
          Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 03:01:30 -0700

          >Investigator
          Jsleaphart@... writes:  
          >
          >I think the NO PLANE camp has, in Stephen Gregory , about as good a
          >witness as there could possibly be.  He is believable, responsible
          >and had a duty to be observant.  In fact if you were going to design
          >a witness for support of whatever your position is on this matter, I
          >really don't think you could design a witness better than Stephen
          >Gregory is.
          >
          >And here is what he actually said, as recorded in his official
          >statement:
          >
          >Stephen Gregory :
          >
          >"At first I didn't realize it was a plane. I thought it was like the
          >roar of fire, like something had just incinerated, like a gas tank or
          >an oil tank. It sounded like a tremendous roar and then you heard
          >boom and then there was a big fire, a lot of fire, a big fireball.
          >I never actually saw a plane hit the building.  I never saw that.
          >I saw it on television, but I never saw it while I was standing
          >there."
          >
          >
          >The fine man you bring to our attention clearly states that his first
          >knowledge of the event was a roar, a sound -- not a sight  -- meaning
          >he heard the event before he saw it  -- but sound as you well know
          >travels slower than light -- so if he didn't look until after he
          >heard the roar he was too late to see the plane  -- but he did see
          >the progress of the explosion from the three or four seconds it took
          >for the sound to reach him  --  my Dad told me how to estimate the
          >distance of lightning by the length of interval between flash and
          >thunder  -- but if you first hear the thunder then you missed the
          >flash.  We can be standing there and not see something because we are
          >not paying attention or we are distracted by something -- he does not
          >say he was looking at the Towers -- he came in late  --he say the
          >explosion, but -- we know from what he says -- not the initiation of
          >the explosion.
          >
          >Are we together on this?
          >
          >Do you have a counter argument, Gerard Holmgren?
          >
          >What about your Morgan Reynolds?
          >
          >Or you, Jim Fetzer, Kevin Bartlett, or Rasqas Saias, do you reach a
          >different conclusion about this witness's statement?
          >
          >Dick Eastman
          >Yakima, Washington
          >
          >
          >  From:
          Jsleaphart@...
          >
          >
          >
          >  Stephen Gregory, Deputy Fire Commissioner, was stationed on West
          >Streeet between Liberty and Albany Streets, which, for those of you
          >not familiar with the Ground Zero area, you can see that WTC 2
          >bordered on Liberty, very close to West Street, with Albany being the
          >next street south of Liberty:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >  Now that we know where Asst. Fire Commissioner Stephen Gregory was,
          >we can next, each in our own way, decide what weight we should give
          >to his testimony and whether and to what extent to we consider him a
          >reliable witness.
          >
          >  I think the NO PLANE camp has, in Stephen Gregory , about as good a
          >witness as there could possibly be.  He is believable, responsible
          >and had a duty to be observant.  In fact if you were going to design
          >a witness for support of whatever your position is on this matter, I
          >really don't think you could design a witness better than Stephen
          >Gregory is.
          >
          >  And here is what he actually said, as recorded in his official
          >statement:
          >
          >  Stephen Gregory :
          >
          >  "At first I didn't realize it was a plane. I thought it was like
          >the roar of fire, like something had just incinerated, like a gas
          >tank or an oil tank. It sounded like a tremendous roar and then you
          >heard boom and then there was a big fire, a lot of fire, a big
          >fireball.
          >  I never actually saw a plane hit the building.  I never saw that.
          >  I saw it on television, but I never saw it while I was standing
          >there."
          >
          >  It is said that there are 100,000 witnesses, but that is by and
          >large the effect of the psy op, of mass media impression.  As I said
          >earlier, people who ferverently believe there were 1000s of witnesses
          >are doing no more than expressing the result of the psy op
          >perpetrated against them.
          >
          >  Can the PLANE SPOTTER camp provide an actual, named witness who is
          >as good as Stephen Gregory is?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >





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          Checked by AVG.
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          ---- Original Message ----
          From:
          olfriend@...
          To: genghis@..., rasgasaias@...,
          pomeroo@..., Jsleaphart@...
          Subject: The statements of Fireman Stephen Gregory
          Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 03:01:30 -0700

          >Investigator
          Jsleaphart@... writes:  
          >
          >I think the NO PLANE camp has, in Stephen Gregory , about as good a
          >witness as there could possibly be.  He is believable, responsible
          >and had a duty to be observant.  In fact if you were going to design
          >a witness for support of whatever your position is on this matter, I
          >really don't think you could design a witness better than Stephen
          >Gregory is.
          >
          >And here is what he actually said, as recorded in his official
          >statement:
          >
          >Stephen Gregory :
          >
          >"At first I didn't realize it was a plane. I thought it was like the
          >roar of fire, like something had just incinerated, like a gas tank or
          >an oil tank. It sounded like a tremendous roar and then you heard
          >boom and then there was a big fire, a lot of fire, a big fireball.
          >I never actually saw a plane hit the building.  I never saw that.
          >I saw it on television, but I never saw it while I was standing
          >there."
          >
          >
          >The fine man you bring to our attention clearly states that his first
          >knowledge of the event was a roar, a sound -- not a sight  -- meaning
          >he heard the event before he saw it  -- but sound as you well know
          >travels slower than light -- so if he didn't look until after he
          >heard the roar he was too late to see the plane  -- but he did see
          >the progress of the explosion from the three or four seconds it took
          >for the sound to reach him  --  my Dad told me how to estimate the
          >distance of lightning by the length of interval between flash and
          >thunder  -- but if you first hear the thunder then you missed the
          >flash.  We can be standing there and not see something because we are
          >not paying attention or we are distracted by something -- he does not
          >say he was looking at the Towers -- he came in late  --he say the
          >explosion, but -- we know from what he says -- not the initiation of
          >the explosion.
          >
          >Are we together on this?
          >
          >Do you have a counter argument, Gerard Holmgren?
          >
          >What about your Morgan Reynolds?
          >
          >Or you, Jim Fetzer, Kevin Bartlett, or Rasqas Saias, do you reach a
          >different conclusion about this witness's statement?
          >
          >Dick Eastman
          >Yakima, Washington
          >
          >
          >  From:
          Jsleaphart@...
          >
          >
          >
          >  Stephen Gregory, Deputy Fire Commissioner, was stationed on West
          >Streeet between Liberty and Albany Streets, which, for those of you
          >not familiar with the Ground Zero area, you can see that WTC 2
          >bordered on Liberty, very close to West Street, with Albany being the
          >next street south of Liberty:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >  Now that we know where Asst. Fire Commissioner Stephen Gregory was,
          >we can next, each in our own way, decide what weight we should give
          >to his testimony and whether and to what extent to we consider him a
          >reliable witness.
          >
          >  I think the NO PLANE camp has, in Stephen Gregory , about as good a
          >witness as there could possibly be.  He is believable, responsible
          >and had a duty to be observant.  In fact if you were going to design
          >a witness for support of whatever your position is on this matter, I
          >really don't think you could design a witness better than Stephen
          >Gregory is.
          >
          >  And here is what he actually said, as recorded in his official
          >statement:
          >
          >  Stephen Gregory :
          >
          >  "At first I didn't realize it was a plane. I thought it was like
          >the roar of fire, like something had just incinerated, like a gas
          >tank or an oil tank. It sounded like a tremendous roar and then you
          >heard boom and then there was a big fire, a lot of fire, a big
          >fireball.
          >  I never actually saw a plane hit the building.  I never saw that.
          >  I saw it on television, but I never saw it while I was standing
          >there."
          >
          >  It is said that there are 100,000 witnesses, but that is by and
          >large the effect of the psy op, of mass media impression.  As I said
          >earlier, people who ferverently believe there were 1000s of witnesses
          >are doing no more than expressing the result of the psy op
          >perpetrated against them.
          >
          >  Can the PLANE SPOTTER camp provide an actual, named witness who is
          >as good as Stephen Gregory is?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >





          --
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          Checked by AVG.
          Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1476 - Release Date: 5/31/2008 12:25 PM


          No virus found in this incoming message.
          Checked by AVG.
          Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1476 - Release Date: 5/31/2008 12:25 PM
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