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Re: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES http://batr.org First time post and DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL

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  • sartrejp
    Buddie, How about investigating and reporting facts! The role of the commentator is to offer an explanation for their significance. SARTRE ... From:
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 16, 2003
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      Buddie,

      How about investigating and reporting facts! The role of the commentator is
      to offer an explanation for their significance.

      SARTRE


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "buddiebuddiee" <Buddie29@...>
      To: <oldright@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:30 PM
      Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES http://batr.org First time
      post and DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL


      >
      > You are ALL intellectuals here with many Doctor/ed degrees ;) and
      > some BSers here...no? ;)
      >
      > My MAJOR beef is with the MAINSTREAM MEDIA..
      >
      > What is the MAIN job of a reporter/journalist? Anyone here care to
      > enlighten me?
      >
      > TIA
      >
      > Buddie
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
    • buddiebuddiee
      Sartre -- And do they ACTUALLY investigate?? Or they given already PREPARED scripts to mouth off on television and in print?! Buddie ... commentator is ...
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 16, 2003
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        Sartre -- And do they ACTUALLY investigate?? Or they given already
        PREPARED scripts to mouth off on television and in print?!

        Buddie

        --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, "sartrejp" <sartrejp@f...> wrote:
        > Buddie,
        >
        > How about investigating and reporting facts! The role of the
        commentator is
        > to offer an explanation for their significance.
        >
        > SARTRE
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "buddiebuddiee" <Buddie29@h...>
        > To: <oldright@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:30 PM
        > Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES http://batr.org
        First time
        > post and DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL
        >
        >
        > >
        > > You are ALL intellectuals here with many Doctor/ed degrees ;) and
        > > some BSers here...no? ;)
        > >
        > > My MAJOR beef is with the MAINSTREAM MEDIA..
        > >
        > > What is the MAIN job of a reporter/journalist? Anyone here care to
        > > enlighten me?
        > >
        > > TIA
        > >
        > > Buddie
        > >
        > >
        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        > >
        > >
        > >
      • Steven Laib
        Do they actually investigate is an excellent question. One might also ask if they investigate only to confirm previously held beliefs, or do they go all the
        Message 3 of 14 , Sep 16, 2003
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          Do they actually investigate is an excellent question.  One might also ask if they investigate only to
          confirm previously held beliefs, or do they go all the way to find out if they are correct in those
          beliefs. 

          Since I do commentary, my duty is not to present only the facts, but my thinking concerning them. 
          When I wrote on exclusively tax law developments, years ago,  I had a significant duty to be accurate
          in my presentation of what  changes had occurred.  My comments were my own thinking and were
          expected to get people to investigate and draw their own conclusions.  This should be extremely
          important in complex areas where people don't often know what is happening.  I recall some
          items in the Tax Act of 1986 which did exactly the opposite of what the legislature wanted and
          had to be rewritten.  Thus, it pays to be very careful. 

          Steve Laib

          buddiebuddiee wrote:

          Sartre -- And do they ACTUALLY investigate?? Or they given already
          PREPARED scripts to mouth off on television and in print?!

          Buddie

          --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, "sartrejp" <sartrejp@f...> wrote:
          > Buddie,
          >
          > How about investigating and reporting facts! The role of the
          commentator is
          > to offer an explanation for their significance.
          >
          > SARTRE
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "buddiebuddiee" <Buddie29@h...>
          > To: <oldright@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:30 PM
          > Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES http://batr.org
          First time
          > post and DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL
          >
          >
          > >
          > > You are ALL intellectuals here with many Doctor/ed degrees ;) and
          > > some BSers here...no? ;)
          > >
          > > My MAJOR beef is with the MAINSTREAM MEDIA..
          > >
          > > What is the MAIN job of a reporter/journalist? Anyone here care to
          > > enlighten me?
          > >
          > > TIA
          > >
          > > Buddie
          > >
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
          > >



          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        • buddiebuddiee
          Steve? You are American, I gather. The IRS. You believe they have the authority to tax people? And do you believe that Income Tax is Legal/ILLEGAL? Am
          Message 4 of 14 , Sep 16, 2003
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            Steve? You are American, I gather. The IRS. You believe they have the
            authority to tax people? And do you believe that Income Tax is
            Legal/ILLEGAL?

            Am Canadian...Europen-born.

            Buddie

            --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...> wrote:
            > Do they actually investigate is an excellent question. One might
            also
            > ask if they investigate only to
            > confirm previously held beliefs, or do they go all the way to find
            out
            > if they are correct in those
            > beliefs.
            >
            > Since I do commentary, my duty is not to present only the facts,
            but my
            > thinking concerning them.
            > When I wrote on exclusively tax law developments, years ago, I had
            a
            > significant duty to be accurate
            > in my presentation of what changes had occurred. My comments were
            my
            > own thinking and were
            > expected to get people to investigate and draw their own
            conclusions.
            > This should be extremely
            > important in complex areas where people don't often know what is
            > happening. I recall some
            > items in the Tax Act of 1986 which did exactly the opposite of what
            the
            > legislature wanted and
            > had to be rewritten. Thus, it pays to be very careful.
            >
            > Steve Laib
            >
            > buddiebuddiee wrote:
            >
            > >
            > > Sartre -- And do they ACTUALLY investigate?? Or they given already
            > > PREPARED scripts to mouth off on television and in print?!
            > >
            > > Buddie
            > >
            > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, "sartrejp" <sartrejp@f...> wrote:
            > > > Buddie,
            > > >
            > > > How about investigating and reporting facts! The role of the
            > > commentator is
            > > > to offer an explanation for their significance.
            > > >
            > > > SARTRE
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > > From: "buddiebuddiee" <Buddie29@h...>
            > > > To: <oldright@yahoogroups.com>
            > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:30 PM
            > > > Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES http://batr.org
            > > First time
            > > > post and DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > You are ALL intellectuals here with many Doctor/ed degrees ;)
            and
            > > > > some BSers here...no? ;)
            > > > >
            > > > > My MAJOR beef is with the MAINSTREAM MEDIA..
            > > > >
            > > > > What is the MAIN job of a reporter/journalist? Anyone here
            care to
            > > > > enlighten me?
            > > > >
            > > > > TIA
            > > > >
            > > > > Buddie
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > > > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > > ADVERTISEMENT
            > >
            <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17
            05060375:HM/A=1732161/R=0/SIG=11p5b9ris/*http://www.ediets.com/start.c
            fm?code=30509&media=atkins>
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service
            > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
          • Steven Laib
            Buddie, This is a difficult question to answer. What I believe at bottom line is that government believes that it has the right to tax people and to use the
            Message 5 of 14 , Sep 16, 2003
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              Buddie,

              This is a difficult question to answer.  What I believe at bottom line is that government believes that
              it has the right to tax people and to use the IRS as its agency to do so with respect to the federal
              income tax.  Actually, over the years I have collected a lot of information on what I call the
              Lore and Legend of the Income Tax Protest Movement.  After examining a lot of it in detail I
              have had to throw some of it out totally.  For example, the suggestion that people are citizens of their
              state, and not of the United States.  It simply doesn't work.  However, there are other arguments which
              might have merit, but are not addressed by the courts or the government. 

              My major issue is not whether the income tax is legal, but whether it is enforced in a legal fashion. 
              My contention is that the Treasury Dept. / IRS carries the burden of proof and not the citizen. 
              Otherwise the citizen is placed in a position of inequity similar to that which caused the courts
              to rule against contracts of adhesion. 

              The government position is to hide behind the myth that most tax proceedings are civil, rather than
              criminal matters, but that is not relevant.  Even in civil matters the person making the contention has
              the burden of proof.  If the IRS says you owe the tax then they must show how and why. 

              You may want to look at a short piece I have coming up on Intellectualconservative.com in the next
              few days. 

              I'm originally from Berzerkly Calif.  One parent German and the other Canadian but naturalized
              American by serving with the US army in WW 2.


              Steve Laib

              buddiebuddiee wrote:

              Steve? You are American, I gather. The IRS. You believe they have the
              authority to tax people? And do you believe that Income Tax is
              Legal/ILLEGAL?

              Am Canadian...Europen-born.

              Buddie

              --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...> wrote:
              > Do they actually investigate is an excellent question.  One might
              also
              > ask if they investigate only to
              > confirm previously held beliefs, or do they go all the way to find
              out
              > if they are correct in those
              > beliefs.
              >
              > Since I do commentary, my duty is not to present only the facts,
              but my
              > thinking concerning them.
              > When I wrote on exclusively tax law developments, years ago,  I had
              a
              > significant duty to be accurate
              > in my presentation of what  changes had occurred.  My comments were
              my
              > own thinking and were
              > expected to get people to investigate and draw their own
              conclusions. 
              > This should be extremely
              > important in complex areas where people don't often know what is
              > happening.  I recall some
              > items in the Tax Act of 1986 which did exactly the opposite of what
              the
              > legislature wanted and
              > had to be rewritten.  Thus, it pays to be very careful.
              >
              > Steve Laib
              >
              > buddiebuddiee wrote:
              >
              > >
              > > Sartre -- And do they ACTUALLY investigate?? Or they given already
              > > PREPARED scripts to mouth off on television and in print?!
              > >
              > > Buddie
              > >
              > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, "sartrejp" <sartrejp@f...> wrote:
              > > > Buddie,
              > > >
              > > > How about investigating and reporting facts! The role of the
              > > commentator is
              > > > to offer an explanation for their significance.
              > > >
              > > > SARTRE
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > > From: "buddiebuddiee" <Buddie29@h...>
              > > > To: <oldright@yahoogroups.com>
              > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:30 PM
              > > > Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES http://batr.org
              > > First time
              > > > post and DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > You are ALL intellectuals here with many Doctor/ed degrees ;)
              and
              > > > > some BSers here...no? ;)
              > > > >
              > > > > My MAJOR beef is with the MAINSTREAM MEDIA..
              > > > >
              > > > > What is the MAIN job of a reporter/journalist? Anyone here
              care to
              > > > > enlighten me?
              > > > >
              > > > > TIA
              > > > >
              > > > > Buddie
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > > > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > > ADVERTISEMENT
              > >
              <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17
              05060375:HM/A=1732161/R=0/SIG=11p5b9ris/*http://www.ediets.com/start.c
              fm?code=30509&media=atkins>
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service
              > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.



              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            • buddiebuddiee
              My contention is that the Treasury Dept. / IRS carries the burden of proof and not the citizen. Steve..You stating that the IRS carries the burden of
              Message 6 of 14 , Sep 16, 2003
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                "My contention is that the Treasury Dept. / IRS carries the burden of
                proof and not the citizen. "

                Steve..You stating that the IRS carries the "burden" of proof???
                HELLO???? WHY should any peon keep receipts about themselves that
                would be USED AGAINST them??

                INCOME TAX = SLAVERY -- plain & simple!! It's a CONTROL mechanism and
                and EXTORTION!!!

                Governments are SERVANTS of the people and pray tell -- WHEN have the
                SERVANTS become the MASTERS and the People their Servants?

                And pleeeaaaazzze...DON'T talk about "paying one's share" -- THAT's a
                lot of BS!!! Why is it that people LOVE slavery and DON'T want OTHERS
                to get out of THIS prison?

                We've been PROGRAMMED from the day we born to ACCEPT authority and
                NOT question ANYTHING OR ANYBODY!

                Buddie




                --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...> wrote:
                > Buddie,
                >
                > This is a difficult question to answer. What I believe at bottom
                line
                > is that government believes that
                > it has the right to tax people and to use the IRS as its agency to
                do so
                > with respect to the federal
                > income tax. Actually, over the years I have collected a lot of
                > information on what I call the
                > Lore and Legend of the Income Tax Protest Movement. After
                examining a
                > lot of it in detail I
                > have had to throw some of it out totally. For example, the
                suggestion
                > that people are citizens of their
                > state, and not of the United States. It simply doesn't work.
                However,
                > there are other arguments which
                > might have merit, but are not addressed by the courts or the
                government.
                >
                > My major issue is not whether the income tax is legal, but whether
                it is
                > enforced in a legal fashion.
                > My contention is that the Treasury Dept. / IRS carries the burden
                of
                > proof and not the citizen.
                > Otherwise the citizen is placed in a position of inequity similar
                to
                > that which caused the courts
                > to rule against contracts of adhesion.
                >
                > The government position is to hide behind the myth that most tax
                > proceedings are civil, rather than
                > criminal matters, but that is not relevant. Even in civil matters
                the
                > person making the contention has
                > the burden of proof. If the IRS says you owe the tax then they
                must
                > show how and why.
                >
                > You may want to look at a short piece I have coming up on
                > Intellectualconservative.com in the next
                > few days.
                >
                > I'm originally from Berzerkly Calif. One parent German and the
                other
                > Canadian but naturalized
                > American by serving with the US army in WW 2.
                >
                >
                > Steve Laib
                >
                > buddiebuddiee wrote:
                >
                > >
                > > Steve? You are American, I gather. The IRS. You believe they have
                the
                > > authority to tax people? And do you believe that Income Tax is
                > > Legal/ILLEGAL?
                > >
                > > Am Canadian...Europen-born.
                > >
                > > Buddie
                > >
                > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...> wrote:
                > > > Do they actually investigate is an excellent question. One
                might
                > > also
                > > > ask if they investigate only to
                > > > confirm previously held beliefs, or do they go all the way to
                find
                > > out
                > > > if they are correct in those
                > > > beliefs.
                > > >
                > > > Since I do commentary, my duty is not to present only the facts,
                > > but my
                > > > thinking concerning them.
                > > > When I wrote on exclusively tax law developments, years ago, I
                had
                > > a
                > > > significant duty to be accurate
                > > > in my presentation of what changes had occurred. My comments
                were
                > > my
                > > > own thinking and were
                > > > expected to get people to investigate and draw their own
                > > conclusions.
                > > > This should be extremely
                > > > important in complex areas where people don't often know what is
                > > > happening. I recall some
                > > > items in the Tax Act of 1986 which did exactly the opposite of
                what
                > > the
                > > > legislature wanted and
                > > > had to be rewritten. Thus, it pays to be very careful.
                > > >
                > > > Steve Laib
                > > >
                > > > buddiebuddiee wrote:
                > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Sartre -- And do they ACTUALLY investigate?? Or they given
                already
                > > > > PREPARED scripts to mouth off on television and in print?!
                > > > >
                > > > > Buddie
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, "sartrejp" <sartrejp@f...>
                wrote:
                > > > > > Buddie,
                > > > > >
                > > > > > How about investigating and reporting facts! The role of the
                > > > > commentator is
                > > > > > to offer an explanation for their significance.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > SARTRE
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > > > > From: "buddiebuddiee" <Buddie29@h...>
                > > > > > To: <oldright@yahoogroups.com>
                > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:30 PM
                > > > > > Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES
                http://batr.org
                > > > > First time
                > > > > > post and DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > You are ALL intellectuals here with many Doctor/ed
                degrees ;)
                > > and
                > > > > > > some BSers here...no? ;)
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > My MAJOR beef is with the MAINSTREAM MEDIA..
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > What is the MAIN job of a reporter/journalist? Anyone here
                > > care to
                > > > > > > enlighten me?
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > TIA
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Buddie
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > > > > > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                > > > > ADVERTISEMENT
                > > > >
                > >
                <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17
                > >
                05060375:HM/A=1732161/R=0/SIG=11p5b9ris/*http://www.ediets.com/start.c
                > > fm?code=30509&media=atkins>
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > > > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                > > Service
                > > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                > > ADVERTISEMENT
                > >
                <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17
                05060375:HM/A=1732163/R=0/SIG=11n0nglqg/*http://www.ediets.com/start.c
                fm?code=30510&media=zone>
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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              • sam
                ....report the news as they see it before it is twisted and distorted by their editors!!! ... From: buddiebuddiee To: oldright@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday,
                Message 7 of 14 , Sep 16, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  ....report the news as they see it before
                  it is twisted and distorted by their
                  editors!!!
                   
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 1:30 PM
                  Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES http://batr.org First time post and DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL


                  You are ALL intellectuals here with many Doctor/ed degrees ;) and
                  some BSers here...no? ;)

                  My MAJOR beef is with the MAINSTREAM MEDIA..

                  What is the MAIN job of a reporter/journalist? Anyone here care to
                  enlighten me?

                  TIA

                  Buddie



                  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                • Steven Laib
                  Buddie, I hate to say this, but you haven t been paying attention. I said that the IRS should have the burden of proof, but I didn t say anything about the
                  Message 8 of 14 , Sep 16, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Buddie,

                    I hate to say this, but you haven't been paying attention. 

                    I said that the IRS should have the burden of proof, but I didn't say anything about
                    the citizen having to provide records.  Besides, in most instances, the citizen has the
                    reciepts and the IRS says they don't and wants them produced. 

                    Fortunately, I don't take the rest of your post seriously.

                    Steve Laib

                    buddiebuddiee wrote:

                    "My contention is that the Treasury Dept. / IRS carries the burden of
                    proof and not the citizen. "

                    Steve..You stating that the IRS carries the "burden" of proof???
                    HELLO???? WHY should any  peon keep receipts about themselves that
                    would be USED AGAINST them??

                    INCOME TAX = SLAVERY -- plain & simple!! It's a CONTROL mechanism and
                    and EXTORTION!!!

                    Governments are SERVANTS of the people and pray tell -- WHEN have the
                    SERVANTS  become the MASTERS and the People their Servants?

                    And pleeeaaaazzze...DON'T talk about "paying one's share" -- THAT's a
                    lot of BS!!! Why is it that people LOVE slavery and DON'T want OTHERS
                    to get out of THIS prison?

                    We've been PROGRAMMED from the day we born to ACCEPT authority and
                    NOT question ANYTHING OR ANYBODY!

                    Buddie




                    --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...> wrote:
                    > Buddie,
                    >
                    > This is a difficult question to answer.  What I believe at bottom
                    line
                    > is that government believes that
                    > it has the right to tax people and to use the IRS as its agency to
                    do so
                    > with respect to the federal
                    > income tax.  Actually, over the years I have collected a lot of
                    > information on what I call the
                    > Lore and Legend of the Income Tax Protest Movement.  After
                    examining a
                    > lot of it in detail I
                    > have had to throw some of it out totally.  For example, the
                    suggestion
                    > that people are citizens of their
                    > state, and not of the United States.  It simply doesn't work. 
                    However,
                    > there are other arguments which
                    > might have merit, but are not addressed by the courts or the
                    government.
                    >
                    > My major issue is not whether the income tax is legal, but whether
                    it is
                    > enforced in a legal fashion.
                    > My contention is that the Treasury Dept. / IRS carries the burden
                    of
                    > proof and not the citizen.
                    > Otherwise the citizen is placed in a position of inequity similar
                    to
                    > that which caused the courts
                    > to rule against contracts of adhesion.
                    >
                    > The government position is to hide behind the myth that most tax
                    > proceedings are civil, rather than
                    > criminal matters, but that is not relevant.  Even in civil matters
                    the
                    > person making the contention has
                    > the burden of proof.  If the IRS says you owe the tax then they
                    must
                    > show how and why.
                    >
                    > You may want to look at a short piece I have coming up on
                    > Intellectualconservative.com in the next
                    > few days.
                    >
                    > I'm originally from Berzerkly Calif.  One parent German and the
                    other
                    > Canadian but naturalized
                    > American by serving with the US army in WW 2.
                    >
                    >
                    > Steve Laib
                    >
                    > buddiebuddiee wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    > > Steve? You are American, I gather. The IRS. You believe they have
                    the
                    > > authority to tax people? And do you believe that Income Tax is
                    > > Legal/ILLEGAL?
                    > >
                    > > Am Canadian...Europen-born.
                    > >
                    > > Buddie
                    > >
                    > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...> wrote:
                    > > > Do they actually investigate is an excellent question.  One
                    might
                    > > also
                    > > > ask if they investigate only to
                    > > > confirm previously held beliefs, or do they go all the way to
                    find
                    > > out
                    > > > if they are correct in those
                    > > > beliefs.
                    > > >
                    > > > Since I do commentary, my duty is not to present only the facts,
                    > > but my
                    > > > thinking concerning them.
                    > > > When I wrote on exclusively tax law developments, years ago,  I
                    had
                    > > a
                    > > > significant duty to be accurate
                    > > > in my presentation of what  changes had occurred.  My comments
                    were
                    > > my
                    > > > own thinking and were
                    > > > expected to get people to investigate and draw their own
                    > > conclusions.
                    > > > This should be extremely
                    > > > important in complex areas where people don't often know what is
                    > > > happening.  I recall some
                    > > > items in the Tax Act of 1986 which did exactly the opposite of
                    what
                    > > the
                    > > > legislature wanted and
                    > > > had to be rewritten.  Thus, it pays to be very careful.
                    > > >
                    > > > Steve Laib
                    > > >
                    > > > buddiebuddiee wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Sartre -- And do they ACTUALLY investigate?? Or they given
                    already
                    > > > > PREPARED scripts to mouth off on television and in print?!
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Buddie
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, "sartrejp" <sartrejp@f...>
                    wrote:
                    > > > > > Buddie,
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > How about investigating and reporting facts! The role of the
                    > > > > commentator is
                    > > > > > to offer an explanation for their significance.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > SARTRE
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > > > > From: "buddiebuddiee" <Buddie29@h...>
                    > > > > > To: <oldright@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:30 PM
                    > > > > > Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES
                    http://batr.org
                    > > > > First time
                    > > > > > post and DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > You are ALL intellectuals here with many Doctor/ed
                    degrees ;)
                    > > and
                    > > > > > > some BSers here...no? ;)
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > My MAJOR beef is with the MAINSTREAM MEDIA..
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > What is the MAIN job of a reporter/journalist? Anyone here
                    > > care to
                    > > > > > > enlighten me?
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > TIA
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Buddie
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > > > > > > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > > > > ADVERTISEMENT
                    > > > >
                    > >
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                    > >
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                    > > fm?code=30509&media=atkins>
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > > > > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    > > Service
                    > > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > > ADVERTISEMENT
                    > >
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                    fm?code=30510&media=zone>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    Service
                    > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.



                    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                  • buddiebuddiee
                    Then what you saying, Sam...is that it s ALL LIES -- what the media prints and reads off their prepared scripts? Buddie ... First time post and DON T know WHY
                    Message 9 of 14 , Sep 16, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Then what you saying, Sam...is that it's ALL LIES -- what the media
                      prints and reads off their prepared scripts?

                      Buddie

                      --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, "sam" <mugwump@h...> wrote:
                      > ....report the news as they see it before
                      > it is twisted and distorted by their
                      > editors!!!
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: buddiebuddiee
                      > To: oldright@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 1:30 PM
                      > Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES http://batr.org
                      First time post and DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > You are ALL intellectuals here with many Doctor/ed degrees ;) and
                      > some BSers here...no? ;)
                      >
                      > My MAJOR beef is with the MAINSTREAM MEDIA..
                      >
                      > What is the MAIN job of a reporter/journalist? Anyone here care
                      to
                      > enlighten me?
                      >
                      > TIA
                      >
                      > Buddie
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      > ADVERTISEMENT
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      Service.
                    • buddiebuddiee
                      Ya..You caught me alright. ;) I have a tendency to speedread. :) Fortunately ???LOL...Why you saying that? Just curious...ok? Buddie ... say ... the ...
                      Message 10 of 14 , Sep 16, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Ya..You caught me alright. ;) I have a tendency to speedread. :)

                        "Fortunately"???LOL...Why you saying that? Just curious...ok?

                        Buddie


                        --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...> wrote:
                        > Buddie,
                        >
                        > I hate to say this, but you haven't been paying attention.
                        >
                        > I said that the IRS should have the burden of proof, but I didn't
                        say
                        > anything about
                        > the citizen having to provide records. Besides, in most instances,
                        the
                        > citizen has the
                        > reciepts and the IRS says they don't and wants them produced.
                        >
                        > Fortunately, I don't take the rest of your post seriously.
                        >
                        > Steve Laib
                        >
                        > buddiebuddiee wrote:
                        >
                        > >
                        > > "My contention is that the Treasury Dept. / IRS carries the
                        burden of
                        > > proof and not the citizen. "
                        > >
                        > > Steve..You stating that the IRS carries the "burden" of proof???
                        > > HELLO???? WHY should any peon keep receipts about themselves that
                        > > would be USED AGAINST them??
                        > >
                        > > INCOME TAX = SLAVERY -- plain & simple!! It's a CONTROL mechanism
                        and
                        > > and EXTORTION!!!
                        > >
                        > > Governments are SERVANTS of the people and pray tell -- WHEN have
                        the
                        > > SERVANTS become the MASTERS and the People their Servants?
                        > >
                        > > And pleeeaaaazzze...DON'T talk about "paying one's share" --
                        THAT's a
                        > > lot of BS!!! Why is it that people LOVE slavery and DON'T want
                        OTHERS
                        > > to get out of THIS prison?
                        > >
                        > > We've been PROGRAMMED from the day we born to ACCEPT authority and
                        > > NOT question ANYTHING OR ANYBODY!
                        > >
                        > > Buddie
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...> wrote:
                        > > > Buddie,
                        > > >
                        > > > This is a difficult question to answer. What I believe at
                        bottom
                        > > line
                        > > > is that government believes that
                        > > > it has the right to tax people and to use the IRS as its agency
                        to
                        > > do so
                        > > > with respect to the federal
                        > > > income tax. Actually, over the years I have collected a lot of
                        > > > information on what I call the
                        > > > Lore and Legend of the Income Tax Protest Movement. After
                        > > examining a
                        > > > lot of it in detail I
                        > > > have had to throw some of it out totally. For example, the
                        > > suggestion
                        > > > that people are citizens of their
                        > > > state, and not of the United States. It simply doesn't work.
                        > > However,
                        > > > there are other arguments which
                        > > > might have merit, but are not addressed by the courts or the
                        > > government.
                        > > >
                        > > > My major issue is not whether the income tax is legal, but
                        whether
                        > > it is
                        > > > enforced in a legal fashion.
                        > > > My contention is that the Treasury Dept. / IRS carries the
                        burden
                        > > of
                        > > > proof and not the citizen.
                        > > > Otherwise the citizen is placed in a position of inequity
                        similar
                        > > to
                        > > > that which caused the courts
                        > > > to rule against contracts of adhesion.
                        > > >
                        > > > The government position is to hide behind the myth that most tax
                        > > > proceedings are civil, rather than
                        > > > criminal matters, but that is not relevant. Even in civil
                        matters
                        > > the
                        > > > person making the contention has
                        > > > the burden of proof. If the IRS says you owe the tax then they
                        > > must
                        > > > show how and why.
                        > > >
                        > > > You may want to look at a short piece I have coming up on
                        > > > Intellectualconservative.com in the next
                        > > > few days.
                        > > >
                        > > > I'm originally from Berzerkly Calif. One parent German and the
                        > > other
                        > > > Canadian but naturalized
                        > > > American by serving with the US army in WW 2.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Steve Laib
                        > > >
                        > > > buddiebuddiee wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Steve? You are American, I gather. The IRS. You believe they
                        have
                        > > the
                        > > > > authority to tax people? And do you believe that Income Tax is
                        > > > > Legal/ILLEGAL?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Am Canadian...Europen-born.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Buddie
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...>
                        wrote:
                        > > > > > Do they actually investigate is an excellent question. One
                        > > might
                        > > > > also
                        > > > > > ask if they investigate only to
                        > > > > > confirm previously held beliefs, or do they go all the way
                        to
                        > > find
                        > > > > out
                        > > > > > if they are correct in those
                        > > > > > beliefs.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Since I do commentary, my duty is not to present only the
                        facts,
                        > > > > but my
                        > > > > > thinking concerning them.
                        > > > > > When I wrote on exclusively tax law developments, years
                        ago, I
                        > > had
                        > > > > a
                        > > > > > significant duty to be accurate
                        > > > > > in my presentation of what changes had occurred. My
                        comments
                        > > were
                        > > > > my
                        > > > > > own thinking and were
                        > > > > > expected to get people to investigate and draw their own
                        > > > > conclusions.
                        > > > > > This should be extremely
                        > > > > > important in complex areas where people don't often know
                        what is
                        > > > > > happening. I recall some
                        > > > > > items in the Tax Act of 1986 which did exactly the opposite
                        of
                        > > what
                        > > > > the
                        > > > > > legislature wanted and
                        > > > > > had to be rewritten. Thus, it pays to be very careful.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Steve Laib
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > buddiebuddiee wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Sartre -- And do they ACTUALLY investigate?? Or they given
                        > > already
                        > > > > > > PREPARED scripts to mouth off on television and in print?!
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Buddie
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, "sartrejp"
                        <sartrejp@f...>
                        > > wrote:
                        > > > > > > > Buddie,
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > How about investigating and reporting facts! The role
                        of the
                        > > > > > > commentator is
                        > > > > > > > to offer an explanation for their significance.
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > SARTRE
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > > > > > > From: "buddiebuddiee" <Buddie29@h...>
                        > > > > > > > To: <oldright@yahoogroups.com>
                        > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:30 PM
                        > > > > > > > Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES
                        > > http://batr.org
                        > > > > > > First time
                        > > > > > > > post and DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > You are ALL intellectuals here with many Doctor/ed
                        > > degrees ;)
                        > > > > and
                        > > > > > > > > some BSers here...no? ;)
                        > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > My MAJOR beef is with the MAINSTREAM MEDIA..
                        > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > What is the MAIN job of a reporter/journalist? Anyone
                        here
                        > > > > care to
                        > > > > > > > > enlighten me?
                        > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > TIA
                        > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > Buddie
                        > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > > > > > > > > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        > > > > > > ADVERTISEMENT
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > >
                        <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17
                        > > > >
                        > >
                        05060375:HM/A=1732161/R=0/SIG=11p5b9ris/*http://www.ediets.com/start.c
                        > > > > fm?code=30509&media=atkins>
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > > > > > > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
                        of
                        > > > > Service
                        > > > > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        > > > > ADVERTISEMENT
                        > > > >
                        > >
                        <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3897168.5135684.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=17
                        > >
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                        > > fm?code=30510&media=zone>
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > > > > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                        > > Service
                        > > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        > > ADVERTISEMENT
                        > >
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                        fm?code=30510&media=zone>
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                        Service
                        > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                      • Steven Laib
                        Consider, I was invited to join this group in part because of my demonstrated ability. Sartre and I have crossed words on occasion because we disagree, but we
                        Message 11 of 14 , Sep 16, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Consider,

                          I was invited to join this group in part because of my demonstrated ability.  Sartre
                          and I have crossed words on occasion because we disagree, but we do it cordially, and
                          without overt emotional overtones.  We also take the time to read each other's notes and
                          make sure we understand each other before going off half cocked. 

                          I expect, perhaps wrongly, that others take the time and care that I do in forming
                          conclusions before writing back.  After years of intellectual discussion with people
                          of all ranks and education levels I've found that it is a bad idea to form any conclusions
                          too fast and then act on them without thinking. 

                          Now consider that even Ben Franklin said that taxes are the price we pay for civilization. 
                          Jesus said that we should render unto Caesar what is Caesar's.  Tithing has been a constant
                          in the Bible, and in other societies where religion plays a significant role. 

                          These are two starting points for the position that some level of taxation can be considered
                          legitimate.  Of course, I could assume that you are an atheist, or anarchist, but I might be
                          wrong.  Most people I know would agree that government can serve some legitimate
                          service, therefore, it is necessary to find some source of funding.  If you have a better
                          idea than taxation, tell me what it is and I'll listen. 

                          Finally, if I did take the rest of what you wrote seriously, I'd have to write you off as
                          a less than serious participant in this group, and simply ignore what you had to say.
                          That would be a shame for both of us. 

                          Cordially,

                          Steve Laib

                          buddiebuddiee wrote:

                          Ya..You caught me alright. ;) I have a tendency to speedread. :)

                          "Fortunately"???LOL...Why you saying that? Just curious...ok?

                          Buddie


                          --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...> wrote:
                          > Buddie,
                          >
                          > I hate to say this, but you haven't been paying attention.
                          >
                          > I said that the IRS should have the burden of proof, but I didn't
                          say
                          > anything about
                          > the citizen having to provide records.  Besides, in most instances,
                          the
                          > citizen has the
                          > reciepts and the IRS says they don't and wants them produced.
                          >
                          > Fortunately, I don't take the rest of your post seriously.
                          >
                          > Steve Laib
                          >
                          > buddiebuddiee wrote:
                          >
                          > >
                          > > "My contention is that the Treasury Dept. / IRS carries the
                          burden of
                          > > proof and not the citizen. "
                          > >
                          > > Steve..You stating that the IRS carries the "burden" of proof???
                          > > HELLO???? WHY should any  peon keep receipts about themselves that
                          > > would be USED AGAINST them??
                          > >
                          > > INCOME TAX = SLAVERY -- plain & simple!! It's a CONTROL mechanism
                          and
                          > > and EXTORTION!!!
                          > >
                          > > Governments are SERVANTS of the people and pray tell -- WHEN have
                          the
                          > > SERVANTS  become the MASTERS and the People their Servants?
                          > >
                          > > And pleeeaaaazzze...DON'T talk about "paying one's share" --
                          THAT's a
                          > > lot of BS!!! Why is it that people LOVE slavery and DON'T want
                          OTHERS
                          > > to get out of THIS prison?
                          > >
                          > > We've been PROGRAMMED from the day we born to ACCEPT authority and
                          > > NOT question ANYTHING OR ANYBODY!
                          > >
                          > > Buddie
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...> wrote:
                          > > > Buddie,
                          > > >
                          > > > This is a difficult question to answer.  What I believe at
                          bottom
                          > > line
                          > > > is that government believes that
                          > > > it has the right to tax people and to use the IRS as its agency
                          to
                          > > do so
                          > > > with respect to the federal
                          > > > income tax.  Actually, over the years I have collected a lot of
                          > > > information on what I call the
                          > > > Lore and Legend of the Income Tax Protest Movement.  After
                          > > examining a
                          > > > lot of it in detail I
                          > > > have had to throw some of it out totally.  For example, the
                          > > suggestion
                          > > > that people are citizens of their
                          > > > state, and not of the United States.  It simply doesn't work.
                          > > However,
                          > > > there are other arguments which
                          > > > might have merit, but are not addressed by the courts or the
                          > > government.
                          > > >
                          > > > My major issue is not whether the income tax is legal, but
                          whether
                          > > it is
                          > > > enforced in a legal fashion.
                          > > > My contention is that the Treasury Dept. / IRS carries the
                          burden
                          > > of
                          > > > proof and not the citizen.
                          > > > Otherwise the citizen is placed in a position of inequity
                          similar
                          > > to
                          > > > that which caused the courts
                          > > > to rule against contracts of adhesion.
                          > > >
                          > > > The government position is to hide behind the myth that most tax
                          > > > proceedings are civil, rather than
                          > > > criminal matters, but that is not relevant.  Even in civil
                          matters
                          > > the
                          > > > person making the contention has
                          > > > the burden of proof.  If the IRS says you owe the tax then they
                          > > must
                          > > > show how and why.
                          > > >
                          > > > You may want to look at a short piece I have coming up on
                          > > > Intellectualconservative.com in the next
                          > > > few days.
                          > > >
                          > > > I'm originally from Berzerkly Calif.  One parent German and the
                          > > other
                          > > > Canadian but naturalized
                          > > > American by serving with the US army in WW 2.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Steve Laib
                          > > >
                          > > > buddiebuddiee wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Steve? You are American, I gather. The IRS. You believe they
                          have
                          > > the
                          > > > > authority to tax people? And do you believe that Income Tax is
                          > > > > Legal/ILLEGAL?
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Am Canadian...Europen-born.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Buddie
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...>
                          wrote:
                          > > > > > Do they actually investigate is an excellent question.  One
                          > > might
                          > > > > also
                          > > > > > ask if they investigate only to
                          > > > > > confirm previously held beliefs, or do they go all the way
                          to
                          > > find
                          > > > > out
                          > > > > > if they are correct in those
                          > > > > > beliefs.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Since I do commentary, my duty is not to present only the
                          facts,
                          > > > > but my
                          > > > > > thinking concerning them.
                          > > > > > When I wrote on exclusively tax law developments, years
                          ago,  I
                          > > had
                          > > > > a
                          > > > > > significant duty to be accurate
                          > > > > > in my presentation of what  changes had occurred.  My
                          comments
                          > > were
                          > > > > my
                          > > > > > own thinking and were
                          > > > > > expected to get people to investigate and draw their own
                          > > > > conclusions.
                          > > > > > This should be extremely
                          > > > > > important in complex areas where people don't often know
                          what is
                          > > > > > happening.  I recall some
                          > > > > > items in the Tax Act of 1986 which did exactly the opposite
                          of
                          > > what
                          > > > > the
                          > > > > > legislature wanted and
                          > > > > > had to be rewritten.  Thus, it pays to be very careful.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Steve Laib
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > buddiebuddiee wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Sartre -- And do they ACTUALLY investigate?? Or they given
                          > > already
                          > > > > > > PREPARED scripts to mouth off on television and in print?!
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Buddie
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, "sartrejp"
                          <sartrejp@f...>
                          > > wrote:
                          > > > > > > > Buddie,
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > How about investigating and reporting facts! The role
                          of the
                          > > > > > > commentator is
                          > > > > > > > to offer an explanation for their significance.
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > SARTRE
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                          > > > > > > > From: "buddiebuddiee" <Buddie29@h...>
                          > > > > > > > To: <oldright@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:30 PM
                          > > > > > > > Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES
                          > > http://batr.org
                          > > > > > > First time
                          > > > > > > > post and DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > You are ALL intellectuals here with many Doctor/ed
                          > > degrees ;)
                          > > > > and
                          > > > > > > > > some BSers here...no? ;)
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > My MAJOR beef is with the MAINSTREAM MEDIA..
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > What is the MAIN job of a reporter/journalist? Anyone
                          here
                          > > > > care to
                          > > > > > > > > enlighten me?
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > TIA
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > Buddie
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          > > > > > > > > oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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                          > > > > > >
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                          > >
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                        • sam
                          If the reporter on the scene is HONEST he reports what he sees etc. However when he turns his story into his editor who has been bought and paid for by the
                          Message 12 of 14 , Sep 16, 2003
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                            If the reporter on the scene is HONEST
                            he reports what he sees etc.  However
                            when he turns his story into his editor
                            who has been bought and paid for by the
                            powers that be, his original story has
                            bee boiled down to what his boss is
                            allowed to broadcast.  This has been the
                            case for probably close to 100 years.
                             
                            This is not so much on the local level as
                            in the national level for instance the actual
                            number of our boys over in the middle east who have been killed which is thousands and not the hundred that
                            are reported.  Not long ago I read that
                            a grave was found with hundreds of
                            US serviceman's bodies but not a boo from
                            the major media here. I have found that the
                            foreign news will report what the U.S
                            media will not touch which is in many
                            cases the truth.  How many people actually go to foreign newspapers and
                            read articles only to find a lot of stuff
                            that was sorely missing from the news
                            here at home.
                             
                            I often wonder if the opposite is true.
                             
                            s.a.m
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:04 PM
                            Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES http://batr.org Re: Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES http://batr.org First time post and DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL


                            Then what you saying, Sam...is that it's ALL LIES -- what the media
                            prints and reads off their prepared scripts?

                            Buddie

                            --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, "sam" <mugwump@h...> wrote:
                            > ....report the news as they see it before
                            > it is twisted and distorted by their
                            > editors!!!
                            >
                            >
                            >   ----- Original Message -----
                            >   From: buddiebuddiee
                            >   To: oldright@yahoogroups.com
                            >   Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 1:30 PM
                            >   Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES http://batr.org
                            First time post and DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >   You are ALL intellectuals here with many Doctor/ed degrees ;) and
                            >   some BSers here...no? ;)
                            >
                            >   My MAJOR beef is with the MAINSTREAM MEDIA..
                            >
                            >   What is the MAIN job of a reporter/journalist? Anyone here care
                            to
                            >   enlighten me?
                            >
                            >   TIA
                            >
                            >   Buddie
                            >
                            >
                            >         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                            >               ADVERTISEMENT
                            >             
                            >       
                            >       
                            >
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                            >   oldright-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                            Service.



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                          • buddiebuddiee
                            Forgive me Steve...Am a female and a Scorpio to boot and we emotional type..ok? :) WHY are you throwing in Ben Franklin and Jesus and other fables here? Just
                            Message 13 of 14 , Sep 16, 2003
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                              Forgive me Steve...Am a female and a Scorpio to boot and we emotional
                              type..ok? :)

                              WHY are you throwing in Ben Franklin and Jesus and other fables here?
                              Just cause THEY SUPPOSEDLY said so? Steve..YOU HAVE BEEN PROGRAMMED
                              to think the so-called PAST is the PRESENT. Am going to be jumping
                              from one subject to another...I post what comes out of my head.
                              Sorry, but am NOT like the rest of you here. I like to QUESTION
                              things and people and am NOT intimidated by people's ranks and
                              statures in life. I was brought up in a Christian home, daddy was a
                              preacher man. I know what religion is all about and it ain't pretty.
                              It's ANOTHER way of ENSLAVING people through their BELIEF system. If
                              one does NOT think like the majority -- one is ostracized. I believe
                              in a higher being -- Someone or something created us as human
                              flesh...OR maybe EACH ONE OF US IS A GOD and WE DON'T KNOW IT????
                              History is constanlty being re-written and so has the holy
                              bible/scriptures. Just like MAINSTREAM Media writes LIES these days --
                              what makes you think HIS-tory isn't BASED on LIES? In THOSE days
                              there was NO internet and people relied on other's word-of-mouth
                              tales.

                              As to taxes? How about LOTTERIES? It's SIMPLE and there's NO THREAT
                              from the GESTAPO IRS to hand over one's hard-earned money. It's time
                              for the IRS GESTAPO to get a real job...no? and NOT live off people's
                              FEARS. Something WRONG when people FEAR the IRS MORE than they fear
                              the police, etc.

                              I'm a simple minded person and can't take too much programming in one
                              take. :) I like to keep things SIMPLE.

                              Buddie

                              --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...> wrote:
                              > Consider,
                              >
                              > I was invited to join this group in part because of my demonstrated
                              > ability. Sartre
                              > and I have crossed words on occasion because we disagree, but we do
                              it
                              > cordially, and
                              > without overt emotional overtones. We also take the time to read
                              each
                              > other's notes and
                              > make sure we understand each other before going off half cocked.
                              >
                              > I expect, perhaps wrongly, that others take the time and care that
                              I do
                              > in forming
                              > conclusions before writing back. After years of intellectual
                              discussion
                              > with people
                              > of all ranks and education levels I've found that it is a bad idea
                              to
                              > form any conclusions
                              > too fast and then act on them without thinking.
                              >
                              > Now consider that even Ben Franklin said that taxes are the price
                              we pay
                              > for civilization.
                              > Jesus said that we should render unto Caesar what is Caesar's.
                              Tithing
                              > has been a constant
                              > in the Bible, and in other societies where religion plays a
                              significant
                              > role.
                              >
                              > These are two starting points for the position that some level of
                              > taxation can be considered
                              > legitimate. Of course, I could assume that you are an atheist, or
                              > anarchist, but I might be
                              > wrong. Most people I know would agree that government can serve
                              some
                              > legitimate
                              > service, therefore, it is necessary to find some source of
                              funding. If
                              > you have a better
                              > idea than taxation, tell me what it is and I'll listen.
                              >
                              > Finally, if I did take the rest of what you wrote seriously, I'd
                              have to
                              > write you off as
                              > a less than serious participant in this group, and simply ignore
                              what
                              > you had to say.
                              > That would be a shame for both of us.
                              >
                              > Cordially,
                              >
                              > Steve Laib
                              >
                              > buddiebuddiee wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              > > Ya..You caught me alright. ;) I have a tendency to speedread. :)
                              > >
                              > > "Fortunately"???LOL...Why you saying that? Just curious...ok?
                              > >
                              > > Buddie
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...> wrote:
                              > > > Buddie,
                              > > >
                              > > > I hate to say this, but you haven't been paying attention.
                              > > >
                              > > > I said that the IRS should have the burden of proof, but I
                              didn't
                              > > say
                              > > > anything about
                              > > > the citizen having to provide records. Besides, in most
                              instances,
                              > > the
                              > > > citizen has the
                              > > > reciepts and the IRS says they don't and wants them produced.
                              > > >
                              > > > Fortunately, I don't take the rest of your post seriously.
                              > > >
                              > > > Steve Laib
                              > > >
                              > > > buddiebuddiee wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > "My contention is that the Treasury Dept. / IRS carries the
                              > > burden of
                              > > > > proof and not the citizen. "
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Steve..You stating that the IRS carries the "burden" of
                              proof???
                              > > > > HELLO???? WHY should any peon keep receipts about themselves
                              that
                              > > > > would be USED AGAINST them??
                              > > > >
                              > > > > INCOME TAX = SLAVERY -- plain & simple!! It's a CONTROL
                              mechanism
                              > > and
                              > > > > and EXTORTION!!!
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Governments are SERVANTS of the people and pray tell -- WHEN
                              have
                              > > the
                              > > > > SERVANTS become the MASTERS and the People their Servants?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > And pleeeaaaazzze...DON'T talk about "paying one's share" --
                              > > THAT's a
                              > > > > lot of BS!!! Why is it that people LOVE slavery and DON'T want
                              > > OTHERS
                              > > > > to get out of THIS prison?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > We've been PROGRAMMED from the day we born to ACCEPT
                              authority and
                              > > > > NOT question ANYTHING OR ANYBODY!
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Buddie
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...>
                              wrote:
                              > > > > > Buddie,
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > This is a difficult question to answer. What I believe at
                              > > bottom
                              > > > > line
                              > > > > > is that government believes that
                              > > > > > it has the right to tax people and to use the IRS as its
                              agency
                              > > to
                              > > > > do so
                              > > > > > with respect to the federal
                              > > > > > income tax. Actually, over the years I have collected a
                              lot of
                              > > > > > information on what I call the
                              > > > > > Lore and Legend of the Income Tax Protest Movement. After
                              > > > > examining a
                              > > > > > lot of it in detail I
                              > > > > > have had to throw some of it out totally. For example, the
                              > > > > suggestion
                              > > > > > that people are citizens of their
                              > > > > > state, and not of the United States. It simply doesn't
                              work.
                              > > > > However,
                              > > > > > there are other arguments which
                              > > > > > might have merit, but are not addressed by the courts or the
                              > > > > government.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > My major issue is not whether the income tax is legal, but
                              > > whether
                              > > > > it is
                              > > > > > enforced in a legal fashion.
                              > > > > > My contention is that the Treasury Dept. / IRS carries the
                              > > burden
                              > > > > of
                              > > > > > proof and not the citizen.
                              > > > > > Otherwise the citizen is placed in a position of inequity
                              > > similar
                              > > > > to
                              > > > > > that which caused the courts
                              > > > > > to rule against contracts of adhesion.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > The government position is to hide behind the myth that
                              most tax
                              > > > > > proceedings are civil, rather than
                              > > > > > criminal matters, but that is not relevant. Even in civil
                              > > matters
                              > > > > the
                              > > > > > person making the contention has
                              > > > > > the burden of proof. If the IRS says you owe the tax then
                              they
                              > > > > must
                              > > > > > show how and why.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > You may want to look at a short piece I have coming up on
                              > > > > > Intellectualconservative.com in the next
                              > > > > > few days.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > I'm originally from Berzerkly Calif. One parent German and
                              the
                              > > > > other
                              > > > > > Canadian but naturalized
                              > > > > > American by serving with the US army in WW 2.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Steve Laib
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > buddiebuddiee wrote:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Steve? You are American, I gather. The IRS. You believe
                              they
                              > > have
                              > > > > the
                              > > > > > > authority to tax people? And do you believe that Income
                              Tax is
                              > > > > > > Legal/ILLEGAL?
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Am Canadian...Europen-born.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Buddie
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, Steven Laib <slaib@e...>
                              > > wrote:
                              > > > > > > > Do they actually investigate is an excellent question.
                              One
                              > > > > might
                              > > > > > > also
                              > > > > > > > ask if they investigate only to
                              > > > > > > > confirm previously held beliefs, or do they go all the
                              way
                              > > to
                              > > > > find
                              > > > > > > out
                              > > > > > > > if they are correct in those
                              > > > > > > > beliefs.
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > Since I do commentary, my duty is not to present only
                              the
                              > > facts,
                              > > > > > > but my
                              > > > > > > > thinking concerning them.
                              > > > > > > > When I wrote on exclusively tax law developments, years
                              > > ago, I
                              > > > > had
                              > > > > > > a
                              > > > > > > > significant duty to be accurate
                              > > > > > > > in my presentation of what changes had occurred. My
                              > > comments
                              > > > > were
                              > > > > > > my
                              > > > > > > > own thinking and were
                              > > > > > > > expected to get people to investigate and draw their own
                              > > > > > > conclusions.
                              > > > > > > > This should be extremely
                              > > > > > > > important in complex areas where people don't often know
                              > > what is
                              > > > > > > > happening. I recall some
                              > > > > > > > items in the Tax Act of 1986 which did exactly the
                              opposite
                              > > of
                              > > > > what
                              > > > > > > the
                              > > > > > > > legislature wanted and
                              > > > > > > > had to be rewritten. Thus, it pays to be very careful.
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > Steve Laib
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > buddiebuddiee wrote:
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > Sartre -- And do they ACTUALLY investigate?? Or they
                              given
                              > > > > already
                              > > > > > > > > PREPARED scripts to mouth off on television and in
                              print?!
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > Buddie
                              > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, "sartrejp"
                              > > <sartrejp@f...>
                              > > > > wrote:
                              > > > > > > > > > Buddie,
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > How about investigating and reporting facts! The
                              role
                              > > of the
                              > > > > > > > > commentator is
                              > > > > > > > > > to offer an explanation for their significance.
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > SARTRE
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                              > > > > > > > > > From: "buddiebuddiee" <Buddie29@h...>
                              > > > > > > > > > To: <oldright@yahoogroups.com>
                              > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:30 PM
                              > > > > > > > > > Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES
                              > > > > http://batr.org
                              > > > > > > > > First time
                              > > > > > > > > > post and DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > > You are ALL intellectuals here with many Doctor/ed
                              > > > > degrees ;)
                              > > > > > > and
                              > > > > > > > > > > some BSers here...no? ;)
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > > My MAJOR beef is with the MAINSTREAM MEDIA..
                              > > > > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > > > > What is the MAIN job of a reporter/journalist?
                              Anyone
                              > > here
                              > > > > > > care to
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                            • buddiebuddiee
                              Yes..But just how many of the people can actually can read in the USA, S.A.M.? That s the reason Bush & Crooks, Inc. were able to get the people behind in
                              Message 14 of 14 , Sep 16, 2003
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Yes..But just how many of the people can actually can read in the
                                USA, S.A.M.? That's the reason Bush & Crooks, Inc. were able to get
                                the people behind in going to War against Iraq. They DEPEND on
                                TELEVISION -- CNN and FOX and NBC, ABC, CBS, etc., their PARTNERS-IN-
                                CRIME, to HOODWINK the public who's too burdened with taxes and just
                                making a living to care about the lives in some 3rd world country.

                                Buddie
                                Here's Pentagon's Mass Graves for the American soldiers link:

                                http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/012603A.mass.graves.htm




                                The MASS graves -- Pentagon

                                --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, "sam" <mugwump@h...> wrote:
                                > If the reporter on the scene is HONEST
                                > he reports what he sees etc. However
                                > when he turns his story into his editor
                                > who has been bought and paid for by the
                                > powers that be, his original story has
                                > bee boiled down to what his boss is
                                > allowed to broadcast. This has been the
                                > case for probably close to 100 years.
                                >
                                > This is not so much on the local level as
                                > in the national level for instance the actual
                                > number of our boys over in the middle east who have been killed
                                which is thousands and not the hundred that
                                > are reported. Not long ago I read that
                                > a grave was found with hundreds of
                                > US serviceman's bodies but not a boo from
                                > the major media here. I have found that the
                                > foreign news will report what the U.S
                                > media will not touch which is in many
                                > cases the truth. How many people actually go to foreign newspapers
                                and
                                > read articles only to find a lot of stuff
                                > that was sorely missing from the news
                                > here at home.
                                >
                                > I often wonder if the opposite is true.
                                >
                                > s.a.m
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: buddiebuddiee
                                > To: oldright@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:04 PM
                                > Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES http://batr.org
                                Re: Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES http://batr.org First time post and
                                DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Then what you saying, Sam...is that it's ALL LIES -- what the
                                media
                                > prints and reads off their prepared scripts?
                                >
                                > Buddie
                                >
                                > --- In oldright@yahoogroups.com, "sam" <mugwump@h...> wrote:
                                > > ....report the news as they see it before
                                > > it is twisted and distorted by their
                                > > editors!!!
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > From: buddiebuddiee
                                > > To: oldright@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 1:30 PM
                                > > Subject: [oldright] Visit BREAKING ALL THE RULES
                                http://batr.org
                                > First time post and DON'T know WHY I'm here!LOL
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > You are ALL intellectuals here with many Doctor/ed degrees ;)
                                and
                                > > some BSers here...no? ;)
                                > >
                                > > My MAJOR beef is with the MAINSTREAM MEDIA..
                                > >
                                > > What is the MAIN job of a reporter/journalist? Anyone here
                                care
                                > to
                                > > enlighten me?
                                > >
                                > > TIA
                                > >
                                > > Buddie
                                > >
                                > >
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