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Re: [OTRMP3] HEEEEEEELP!

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  • David E. Cote
    ... From: Carl Godfrey To: David E. Cote Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 12:01 AM Subject: Re:
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 2, 2002
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Carl Godfrey" <carl.godfrey@...>
      To: "David E. Cote" <davidecote@...>
      Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 12:01 AM
      Subject: Re: [OTRMP3] HEEEEEEELP!


      > Hi again, David,
      >
      > I should have looked up the specs on you player before I replied. I have
      > never heard of an MP3 CD player that would read discs created with
      > pacet-writing before, but apparently yours does. Give me a moment to
      > wipe the egg from my face and we'll try this again.

      No need for concern on that score.

      > Okay, first let me ask a stupid question: have you tried to play a disc
      > that someone else has burned? If not, you should do this test to ensure
      > that your player hasn't gone faulty.

      I have, and they worked, but they were audio CD's.

      > As far as your problem with not being able to ad more files to a disc:
      > there is a setting in the dialog box that appears whe you click the
      > record button that tells the program whether or not to close the disc
      > after the burn. If it closes the disc, you can never write to the disc
      > again, not matter how much space should be left the disc will show as
      full.

      This of course refers only to CD-R's?

      > Unless your using Direct CD or similar packet-writing software, you
      > never have to format a CD-R or CD-RW. Just for future reference, if you
      > burn a CD for someone else, you shouldn't use the Direct CD application
      > to do it, as they will not be able to read the disc unless they have
      > similar pact-writing software. The formatting that you did is only a
      > function of Direct CD.

      Right, I knew that.

      > When you select Data CD in Easy CD Creator, I believe it defaults to
      > ISO9660 format. There are tons of data CD formats but this is the one
      > that is closest to universal as it can be read by Windows, DOS, Mac OS
      > and Linux. In most cases, this is the type of disc you want to burn.
      > There is no formatting involved; formatting merely creates the
      > "structure" for storage on a disc. In the case of CDs, this structure is
      > created during the burn...not before.

      Got that also

      > As far as Direct CD goes, once a disc is written with this program a
      > couple of rules apply:
      >
      > 1) When you use Direct CD, because of the way this program "formats"
      > the disc, you immediately lose almost 100 MB from the storage capacity
      > of your disc, therefore, a 650 MB disc becomes a 550 MB disc. The only
      > was to get this space back on a CD-RW is to erase the disc.

      That's interesting, because the first otr CD I burned (the CD-RW that
      worked, the one that I accessed as I would a floppy, and added to and
      deleted from through Windows Explorer, as with a floppy) had been formatted
      with Direct CD. I think my problem may be that the DCD formats CD-RW's
      differently than CD-R's.

      I notice that when I finish using a CD-RW the exit message from DCD
      says that it can be read "on any CD-RW drive, and any multiread drive
      running DCD"- whereas the exit msg for a CD-R says that the reader drive
      must have DCD installed.

      > 2) If you want to use any other program, such as Easy CD Creator, to
      > burn more data to a CD-RW, the CD-RW will need to be erased first.

      That was not my experience, see above. Unfortunately, at the moment I
      have no CD-RW's at hand to try again.

      > 3) Each time you add data to a CD-RW with Direct CD, you lose an
      > aditional 30 MB over and above the size of the files you add as a new
      > table of contents must be written to the disc. If you have done 4
      > separate burns to a 650 MB disc, you lose 4 times 30...a total of 120
      > MB. Add the 100 MB from formatting the disc for Direct CD and your 650
      > MB disc willl now only hold 430 MB of data.

      Noted.

      So my questions are:

      1. Do I need to wait to burn a CD-R until I have a disk's worth of data,
      since apparently I can't add to it incrementally? If so, are there any
      alternatives?

      2. Is this also true of CD-RW's, despite my (successful) experience using
      DCD? The reduction of storage space is less important than the convenience
      of being able to use it as a floppy and play it on my Slim X, for obvious
      reasons.

      Sorry to belabor this, and many thanks for all your help.

      > Carl
      >
      > >>Hi, David,
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > > Hi.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >>Don't Panic! You don't need to format a cd-r or cd-rw. A couple of
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > > How do I use them then if my computer cannot access them as formatted
      > >media?
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >>things to remember are listed below:
      > >>
      > >> 1) Don't use Direct CD to create the disc. Direct CD writes the data
      > >>to disc in a format called UDF that cannot be read unless you have UDF
      > >>drivers installed on your PC. No MP3 cd player can read this format.
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > > Then why does my SlimX portable CD/MP3 player read the CD-RW on which
      I
      > >burned my first OTR MP3's?
      > >
      > > Perhaps I was unclear. For my first OTR burn, I used a CD-RW that had
      > >been formatted so long ago that I had forgotten what format was used.
      > >
      > > It was formatted as a data CD, accessible through the drive letter. I
      > >simply copied the mp3's on the CD-RW by drag and drop. It worked fine.
      The
      > >Slim X read it fine.
      > >
      > > That disc was filled. Then I tried to format a CD-R as a data CD, in
      > >what I believed had been the same way that the CD-RW had been formatted
      (the
      > >only way I had ever burned a data CD).
      > >
      > > I put the CD into the Slim X - "No Disc" was the response. Tossed
      that
      > >CD-R out. Tried to use the alternate method of data CD formatting. It
      worked
      > >but I could not add any more files to the CD-R. This happened several
      times.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >> 2) When using Easy CD Creator, make sure that you choose a data cd
      > >>as the type of cd that you want to create.
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > > Yeah, but which type of data CD formatting?
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >> 3) Make sure you burn all the shows at the same time so that you
      > >>don't end up with multiple sessions on the cd, as many players can only
      > >>see the last session burned to the disc. This tip also holds true for
      > >>creating audio cds.
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > > So what you're telling me is that even though I was able to use the
      > >CD-RW originally in the traditional drag-and drop drive letter way
      > >(essentially as a big floppy) that now I must do it all at once?
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >> 4) Make sure that you select the option to close the cd after the
      > >>burn is complete. Closing the disc prevents any new infor mation from
      > >>being written to the disc, although it doesn't prevent you from erasing
      > >>cd-rws to be reused. If you don't close the disc, although it may play
      > >>fine on your PCs cd-rom drive, again many players will not be able to
      > >>read the disc.
      > >>
      > >> 5) If cd-rw is working but not cd-r, try reducing the speed of the
      > >>burn. The faster the burn the more difficult it is for some
      > >>drives/players to read the disc. Since cd-rw tend to bur slower than
      > >>cd-r, try reducing the cd-r burn speed to the same speed that you use
      > >>for cd-rws.
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > > I would if I knew how to do so. I hope my further elaboration is
      > >helpful.
      > >
      > > Clearly, I am still in need of heeeeeeeeelp!
      > >
      > > Thanks very much!
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >>David E. Cote wrote:
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>>How do I need to format a CD-R or CD-RW for it to be readable in my
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >Slim-X
      > >
      > >
      > >>>portable CD/MP3 player. CD-R?
      > >>>
      > >>>CD-RW works fine- trouble with CD-R.
      > >>>
      > >>>Running older version of Easy CD Creator and Direct CD.
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>If for some reason, you feel this group is not for you, you can easily
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >unsubscribe from it by sending an email to:
      > >
      > >
      > >>>oldradioshowsonmp3-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > >>>
      > >>>But we'll miss you.
      > >>>
      > >>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>If for some reason, you feel this group is not for you, you can easily
      > >>
      > >>
      > >unsubscribe from it by sending an email to:
      > >
      > >
      > >>oldradioshowsonmp3-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > >>
      > >>But we'll miss you.
      > >>
      > >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
    • Carl Godfrey
      Hi, David, ... Unfortunately, no. If you burn a CD-RW and close the CD, you must erase the disc to burn to it again. You can leave the disc open but close the
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 2, 2002
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        Hi, David,

        >>As far as your problem with not being able to ad more files to a disc:
        >>there is a setting in the dialog box that appears whe you click the
        >>record button that tells the program whether or not to close the disc
        >>after the burn. If it closes the disc, you can never write to the disc
        >>again, not matter how much space should be left the disc will show as
        >>
        >>
        >full.
        >
        > This of course refers only to CD-R's?
        >
        >
        Unfortunately, no. If you burn a CD-RW and close the CD, you must erase
        the disc to burn to it again. You can leave the disc open but close the
        session and this will allow you to continue burning on either type of
        disc, but make sure your player offers multi-session support first.
        Otherwise it won't see all the data.

        >As far as Direct CD goes, once a disc is written with this program a
        >couple of rules apply:
        >
        > 1) When you use Direct CD, because of the way this program "formats"
        >the disc, you immediately lose almost 100 MB from the storage capacity
        >of your disc, therefore, a 650 MB disc becomes a 550 MB disc. The only
        >was to get this space back on a CD-RW is to erase the disc.
        >
        >
        >
        > That's interesting, because the first otr CD I burned (the CD-RW that
        >worked, the one that I accessed as I would a floppy, and added to and
        >deleted from through Windows Explorer, as with a floppy) had been formatted
        >with Direct CD. I think my problem may be that the DCD formats CD-RW's
        >differently than CD-R's.
        >
        > I notice that when I finish using a CD-RW the exit message from DCD
        >says that it can be read "on any CD-RW drive, and any multiread drive
        >running DCD"- whereas the exit msg for a CD-R says that the reader drive
        >must have DCD installed.
        >
        >
        This is because the UDF packet-writing format requires that drivers be
        installed on any PC that wants to read the discs. Direct CD of course
        installs these drivers so that it can fulfill its function. But on any
        PC that does not have UDF packet-writing drivers, the data on the disc
        would appear in its "raw" form and would be unusable.

        As you say, there may be issues with CD-R and CD-RW as there are
        differences in the way the data is stored on them. I'm not really sure;
        since the purpose of Direct CD is to offer similar functionality to what
        you have with hard drives and floppies, I honestly never saw any value
        to using it with read-only discs. Something else I should point out is
        this: when you delete files from a Direct CD disc, the files aren't
        deleted merely obscured. This means that deleting files does not give
        you back disc space, so again you need to either erase or use DCD to
        format the disc again.

        > So my questions are:
        >
        > 1. Do I need to wait to burn a CD-R until I have a disk's worth of data,
        >since apparently I can't add to it incrementally? If so, are there any
        >alternatives?
        >
        > 2. Is this also true of CD-RW's, despite my (successful) experience using
        > DCD? The reduction of storage space is less important than the convenience
        >of being able to use it as a floppy and play it on my Slim X, for obvious
        >reasons.
        >
        > Sorry to belabor this, and many thanks for all your help.
        >
        >
        1. If you don't mind losing 30 MB to the new Table of Contents each
        time you burn, go ahead. If you're only copying a few shows at a time,
        it seems like a bit of a waste, but if you're copying larger groups of
        shows, why worry? Let's face it: even 500MB of OTR in MP3 format is a
        lot of listening. The alternative is DCD with CD-RW which appears to
        have already worked for you.

        2) Most of what applies to CD-R also applies to CD-RW although the fact
        that CD-R discs are only re-usable until their full and can't be erased
        like CD-RW. I agree that DCD seems to offer convenience, but in my
        experience, DCD caused more trouble than it was worth. To each his own,
        really. Nero has packet-writing software as well, but I can't be
        bothered installing it.

        I don't think you're belabouring anything. You're having a problem and
        you're hoping someone can help you with it. If you look back over my
        posts in various groups over the last couple months, you'll see that I
        enjoy offering whatever assistance I can. I've been at this game a wee
        while now and I don't mind offering help to anyone who needs it. Since
        you've already verified that audio CDs still play in your Slim X, we
        know that it's still working. Now all we need to do is figure out what
        is causing your burning problem. Offering tech support without being
        able to actually "see" the problem is tricky, but I like a challenge.

        Carl


        >
        >
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