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Sales tax change

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  • Kathleen Lewis
    ... Since the producers previously included the sales tax in their prices, now we are effectively paying the tax twice, once in the stated price, and again
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 17, 2004
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      >Due to a ruling of the Oklahoma Tax Commission received this
      >week, the responsibility for collecting and paying sales tax has
      >been shifted from the producers to the cooperative. Sales tax also
      >must be charged on the Cooperative fee, but not on the
      >transportation fees. Sales tax is not being charged on donations
      >made through the cooperative.


      Since the producers previously included the sales tax in their prices,
      now we are effectively paying the tax twice, once in the stated price,
      and again after the coop bills the tax (which also includes tax on the
      previously included tax).

      My current invoice is $16.72 higher than it was under the old
      system. If the change involved nothing more than a transfer of
      collection responsibility, the total should be close to the same either
      way.

      Kathleen
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Springhill
      I truly don t forsee any of our producers who have already built sales tax into their published prices NOT lowering their prices to avoid the double taxation
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 17, 2004
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        I truly don't forsee any of our producers who have already built sales tax into their published prices NOT lowering their prices to avoid the double taxation issue. We have an essentially honest group of people here and beyond that, if there were a producer or two who did not lower their prices, I think that they would soon find that their sales would reflect the fact that their products were not as competitively priced relative to the producers who did lower their prices. Springhill Farms had taken the position that coop sales fell under the aegis of "farmgate sales" and therefore were sales tax exempt. We did not include sales tax in our prices. From a producer's viewpoint, I feel we are very lucky that the coop is collecting the tax and administrating the payments and paperwork to the tax commission. I think the person that the new ruling has been the hardest on has been Emma who, I understand, has done her magic to implement a sales tax calculator for the website that calculates tax in all the different points of sale.
        Seth Callen
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Robert Waldrop
        To: okfoodret@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 10:34 AM
        Subject: Re: [okfoodret] Sales tax change


        Actually, I first asked the Tax Commission about
        this in August 2003. (!!!!!) If I remember the
        chronology correctly, in November 2003 they
        informed us that they could not answer our
        question because it was not in the proper format.
        (!!!!!!!) So I responded with "improved format"
        that met their criteria, they responded back after
        the first of the year with a request for more
        information, which I then sent to them, and then
        we finally received the answer, basically 11
        months after my original inquiry. Sigh. Although
        I have been TRULY TEMPTED, I have refrained from
        commenting to them about how long it takes to get
        an answer from them, sometimes sleeping dogs
        should be left alone, so to speak. We did ask
        what turned out to be a complicated question in
        that there weren't any clear precedents that fit
        our unique situation.

        Robert Waldrop, okc


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Ronnie Bolerjack" <fiveyearold2@...>
        To: <okfoodret@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 9:23 AM
        Subject: Re: [okfoodret] Sales tax change


        > I am sorry that Kathleen is upset because her
        invoice is higher this month and she feels that
        she is paying taxes twice with the "stated price"
        of products. We at Styxx Co. do not and have not
        included taxes in the price of our products, we
        have been responsible for all taxes on our
        products for the customers. Now with the Co-op
        collecting and being responsible, it makes less
        paperwork for us but our prices on our items will
        not change because no matter if Styxx Co. or the
        Co-op collects the taxes, you are still being
        taxed for the price of our item just as if you
        went to the corner grocer and bought our items in
        the store you still have to pay taxes on what you
        bought. We still have to pay federal taxes on our
        overall income for the year just as anyone else
        does as well as state taxes. As for Sales taxes
        being on the Co-op fee, this fee helps with the
        paperwork and everything else that is needed for
        the Co-op. I as a Producer/Member pay the Co-op
        fee for my monthly groceries and I
        > do not have a problem with it.
        > I know that it seems as if the Oklahoma Tax
        Commission just threw this on all of us overnight,
        but they did not. So bear with us Kathleen and we
        will work through this, as Robert stated, the
        Producers that had included sales taxes in their
        prices will probably reduce their prices since the
        Co-op will now be collecting taxes.
        >
        > Tamara Foust Styxx Co.
        >
        >



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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Robert Waldrop
        We only found out about this change last Saturday. Not all of the producers were remiting sales tax, they were operating under the farm direct sales tax
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 17, 2004
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          We only found out about this change last Saturday.
          Not all of the producers were remiting sales tax,
          they were operating under the farm direct sales
          tax exemption. Now that the tax commission has
          ruled that going forward we have to collect sales
          tax, this change doesn't effect them at all.
          Other producers were including sales tax and they
          will probably be reducing their prices for July.
          We don't have a count one way or the other at this
          time, so I don't know what the case is with the
          particular products you bought. You could contact
          the producers directly. We notified them hmmm I
          guess it was Monday, but this is the busy time of
          the year and I doubt that most of them saw it
          until Tuesday or Wednesday. We started
          immediately because this was the first order after
          the effective date of the ruling, and the letter
          didn't give us any grace period for compliance.
          It's basic message was, "This is the way it is."
          Emma did incredible work getting this all pulled
          together so that the taxes were calculated
          automatically by the invoice system. We have to
          charge tax based on the location the customer gets
          the food, so we had numerous different rates to
          deal with. Now the software automatically knows
          which rate to charge based on the customer's
          delivery election.

          There are also a couple of cases of producers who
          initially charged tax as a separate subtotal, but
          who then stopped doing that and didn't raise their
          prices, so in those cases, the producer has
          actually been paying the taxes for the customer.
          I wouldn't expect their prices to change, because
          it's the same price they were charging before they
          dropped the separate subtotal for tax on their
          sales.

          I'm sure there will be more news about this.

          Robert Waldrop, okc
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Kathleen Lewis" <lewisk@...>
          To: <okfoodret@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 9:53 AM
          Subject: [okfoodret] Sales tax change


          >
          >
          > >Due to a ruling of the Oklahoma Tax Commission
          received this
          > >week, the responsibility for collecting and
          paying sales tax has
          > >been shifted from the producers to the
          cooperative. Sales tax also
          > >must be charged on the Cooperative fee, but not
          on the
          > >transportation fees. Sales tax is not being
          charged on donations
          > >made through the cooperative.
          >
          >
          > Since the producers previously included the
          sales tax in their prices,
          > now we are effectively paying the tax twice,
          once in the stated price,
          > and again after the coop bills the tax (which
          also includes tax on the
          > previously included tax).
          >
          > My current invoice is $16.72 higher than it was
          under the old
          > system. If the change involved nothing more
          than a transfer of
          > collection responsibility, the total should be
          close to the same either
          > way.
          >
          > Kathleen
          >
        • Ronnie Bolerjack
          I am sorry that Kathleen is upset because her invoice is higher this month and she feels that she is paying taxes twice with the stated price of products. We
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 18, 2004
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            I am sorry that Kathleen is upset because her invoice is higher this month and she feels that she is paying taxes twice with the "stated price" of products. We at Styxx Co. do not and have not included taxes in the price of our products, we have been responsible for all taxes on our products for the customers. Now with the Co-op collecting and being responsible, it makes less paperwork for us but our prices on our items will not change because no matter if Styxx Co. or the Co-op collects the taxes, you are still being taxed for the price of our item just as if you went to the corner grocer and bought our items in the store you still have to pay taxes on what you bought. We still have to pay federal taxes on our overall income for the year just as anyone else does as well as state taxes. As for Sales taxes being on the Co-op fee, this fee helps with the paperwork and everything else that is needed for the Co-op. I as a Producer/Member pay the Co-op fee for my monthly groceries and I
            do not have a problem with it.
            I know that it seems as if the Oklahoma Tax Commission just threw this on all of us overnight, but they did not. So bear with us Kathleen and we will work through this, as Robert stated, the Producers that had included sales taxes in their prices will probably reduce their prices since the Co-op will now be collecting taxes.

            Tamara Foust Styxx Co.



            Robert Waldrop <rmwj@...> wrote:
            We only found out about this change last Saturday.
            Not all of the producers were remiting sales tax,
            they were operating under the farm direct sales
            tax exemption. Now that the tax commission has
            ruled that going forward we have to collect sales
            tax, this change doesn't effect them at all.
            Other producers were including sales tax and they
            will probably be reducing their prices for July.
            We don't have a count one way or the other at this
            time, so I don't know what the case is with the
            particular products you bought. You could contact
            the producers directly. We notified them hmmm I
            guess it was Monday, but this is the busy time of
            the year and I doubt that most of them saw it
            until Tuesday or Wednesday. We started
            immediately because this was the first order after
            the effective date of the ruling, and the letter
            didn't give us any grace period for compliance.
            It's basic message was, "This is the way it is."
            Emma did incredible work getting this all pulled
            together so that the taxes were calculated
            automatically by the invoice system. We have to
            charge tax based on the location the customer gets
            the food, so we had numerous different rates to
            deal with. Now the software automatically knows
            which rate to charge based on the customer's
            delivery election.

            There are also a couple of cases of producers who
            initially charged tax as a separate subtotal, but
            who then stopped doing that and didn't raise their
            prices, so in those cases, the producer has
            actually been paying the taxes for the customer.
            I wouldn't expect their prices to change, because
            it's the same price they were charging before they
            dropped the separate subtotal for tax on their
            sales.

            I'm sure there will be more news about this.

            Robert Waldrop, okc
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Kathleen Lewis" <lewisk@...>
            To: <okfoodret@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 9:53 AM
            Subject: [okfoodret] Sales tax change


            >
            >
            > >Due to a ruling of the Oklahoma Tax Commission
            received this
            > >week, the responsibility for collecting and
            paying sales tax has
            > >been shifted from the producers to the
            cooperative. Sales tax also
            > >must be charged on the Cooperative fee, but not
            on the
            > >transportation fees. Sales tax is not being
            charged on donations
            > >made through the cooperative.
            >
            >
            > Since the producers previously included the
            sales tax in their prices,
            > now we are effectively paying the tax twice,
            once in the stated price,
            > and again after the coop bills the tax (which
            also includes tax on the
            > previously included tax).
            >
            > My current invoice is $16.72 higher than it was
            under the old
            > system. If the change involved nothing more
            than a transfer of
            > collection responsibility, the total should be
            close to the same either
            > way.
            >
            > Kathleen
            >



            Group website: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/okfoodret/ , which is also the location of the archives where previous messages can be read.


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          • Robert Waldrop
            Actually, I first asked the Tax Commission about this in August 2003. (!!!!!) If I remember the chronology correctly, in November 2003 they informed us that
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 18, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              Actually, I first asked the Tax Commission about
              this in August 2003. (!!!!!) If I remember the
              chronology correctly, in November 2003 they
              informed us that they could not answer our
              question because it was not in the proper format.
              (!!!!!!!) So I responded with "improved format"
              that met their criteria, they responded back after
              the first of the year with a request for more
              information, which I then sent to them, and then
              we finally received the answer, basically 11
              months after my original inquiry. Sigh. Although
              I have been TRULY TEMPTED, I have refrained from
              commenting to them about how long it takes to get
              an answer from them, sometimes sleeping dogs
              should be left alone, so to speak. We did ask
              what turned out to be a complicated question in
              that there weren't any clear precedents that fit
              our unique situation.

              Robert Waldrop, okc


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Ronnie Bolerjack" <fiveyearold2@...>
              To: <okfoodret@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 9:23 AM
              Subject: Re: [okfoodret] Sales tax change


              > I am sorry that Kathleen is upset because her
              invoice is higher this month and she feels that
              she is paying taxes twice with the "stated price"
              of products. We at Styxx Co. do not and have not
              included taxes in the price of our products, we
              have been responsible for all taxes on our
              products for the customers. Now with the Co-op
              collecting and being responsible, it makes less
              paperwork for us but our prices on our items will
              not change because no matter if Styxx Co. or the
              Co-op collects the taxes, you are still being
              taxed for the price of our item just as if you
              went to the corner grocer and bought our items in
              the store you still have to pay taxes on what you
              bought. We still have to pay federal taxes on our
              overall income for the year just as anyone else
              does as well as state taxes. As for Sales taxes
              being on the Co-op fee, this fee helps with the
              paperwork and everything else that is needed for
              the Co-op. I as a Producer/Member pay the Co-op
              fee for my monthly groceries and I
              > do not have a problem with it.
              > I know that it seems as if the Oklahoma Tax
              Commission just threw this on all of us overnight,
              but they did not. So bear with us Kathleen and we
              will work through this, as Robert stated, the
              Producers that had included sales taxes in their
              prices will probably reduce their prices since the
              Co-op will now be collecting taxes.
              >
              > Tamara Foust Styxx Co.
              >
              >
            • Emma - Red Earth Design
              who needs sleep anyway?? ;) nah, it was an interesting project - lots of possibilities and combinations, like what if there is a match for someone s county but
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 18, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                who needs sleep anyway?? ;) nah, it was an interesting project - lots of
                possibilities and combinations, like what if there is a match for someone's
                county but not city for finding a tax rate? involving zip code matching gave the
                most accurate results but then what if there's no match? I actually found some
                cities that have a tax rate but no zip code at all! Just want to do my best to
                help keep the Coop in good graces with the tax commission.

                Glad that all you amazing producers were able to work Your magic in bringing
                incredible products to everyone yesterday.
                Best wishes!
                Emma

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Springhill" <springhill@...>
                To: <okfoodret@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 8:51 AM
                Subject: Re: [okfoodret] Sales tax change


                > I truly don't forsee any of our producers who have already built sales tax
                into their published prices NOT lowering their prices to avoid the double
                taxation issue. We have an essentially honest group of people here and beyond
                that, if there were a producer or two who did not lower their prices, I think
                that they would soon find that their sales would reflect the fact that their
                products were not as competitively priced relative to the producers who did
                lower their prices. Springhill Farms had taken the position that coop sales
                fell under the aegis of "farmgate sales" and therefore were sales tax exempt.
                We did not include sales tax in our prices. From a producer's viewpoint, I
                feel we are very lucky that the coop is collecting the tax and administrating
                the payments and paperwork to the tax commission. I think the person that the
                new ruling has been the hardest on has been Emma who, I understand, has done her
                magic to implement a sales tax calculator for the website that calculates tax in
                all the different points of sale.
                > Seth Callen
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Robert Waldrop
                > To: okfoodret@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 10:34 AM
                > Subject: Re: [okfoodret] Sales tax change
                >
                >
                > Actually, I first asked the Tax Commission about
                > this in August 2003. (!!!!!) If I remember the
                > chronology correctly, in November 2003 they
                > informed us that they could not answer our
                > question because it was not in the proper format.
                > (!!!!!!!) So I responded with "improved format"
                > that met their criteria, they responded back after
                > the first of the year with a request for more
                > information, which I then sent to them, and then
                > we finally received the answer, basically 11
                > months after my original inquiry. Sigh. Although
                > I have been TRULY TEMPTED, I have refrained from
                > commenting to them about how long it takes to get
                > an answer from them, sometimes sleeping dogs
                > should be left alone, so to speak. We did ask
                > what turned out to be a complicated question in
                > that there weren't any clear precedents that fit
                > our unique situation.
                >
                > Robert Waldrop, okc
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "Ronnie Bolerjack" <fiveyearold2@...>
                > To: <okfoodret@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 9:23 AM
                > Subject: Re: [okfoodret] Sales tax change
                >
                >
                > > I am sorry that Kathleen is upset because her
                > invoice is higher this month and she feels that
                > she is paying taxes twice with the "stated price"
                > of products. We at Styxx Co. do not and have not
                > included taxes in the price of our products, we
                > have been responsible for all taxes on our
                > products for the customers. Now with the Co-op
                > collecting and being responsible, it makes less
                > paperwork for us but our prices on our items will
                > not change because no matter if Styxx Co. or the
                > Co-op collects the taxes, you are still being
                > taxed for the price of our item just as if you
                > went to the corner grocer and bought our items in
                > the store you still have to pay taxes on what you
                > bought. We still have to pay federal taxes on our
                > overall income for the year just as anyone else
                > does as well as state taxes. As for Sales taxes
                > being on the Co-op fee, this fee helps with the
                > paperwork and everything else that is needed for
                > the Co-op. I as a Producer/Member pay the Co-op
                > fee for my monthly groceries and I
                > > do not have a problem with it.
                > > I know that it seems as if the Oklahoma Tax
                > Commission just threw this on all of us overnight,
                > but they did not. So bear with us Kathleen and we
                > will work through this, as Robert stated, the
                > Producers that had included sales taxes in their
                > prices will probably reduce their prices since the
                > Co-op will now be collecting taxes.
                > >
                > > Tamara Foust Styxx Co.
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                > Group website: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/okfoodret/ , which is also the
                location of the archives where previous messages can be read.
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                > ADVERTISEMENT
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/okfoodret/
                >
                > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > okfoodret-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > Group website: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/okfoodret/ , which is also the
                location of the archives where previous messages can be read.
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                > ADVERTISEMENT
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                --
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/okfoodret/
                >
                > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > okfoodret-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                >
                >
              • Kathleen Lewis
                ... Dittos. I bought way too much because of all the new products that have come on line - but my mother and co-workers will undoubtedly polish off anything
                Message 7 of 7 , Jun 18, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 09:02:22 -0700 Emma - Red Earth Design wrote:


                  >
                  >Glad that all you amazing producers were able to work Your magic in bringing
                  >incredible products to everyone yesterday.
                  >Best wishes!
                  >Emma
                  >


                  Dittos. I bought way too much because of all the new products that
                  have come on line - but my mother and co-workers will undoubtedly polish
                  off anything I can't put in the freezer. The baklava from Our Daily
                  Bread is great.

                  Kathleen
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